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DNC - where do you go from here? (1 Viewer)

Chelsea preparing to run for congress?

Both sides are probably looking at where they go from here.  At 36, Chelsea is eligible to be president now. Do we dare have another Trump/Clinton election,between the kids? George P Bush could be in the mix also, who is currently Commissioner of the Texas General Land Office.    :mellow:

 
Phil Elliott said:
Chelsea preparing to run for congress?

Both sides are probably looking at where they go from here.  At 36, Chelsea is eligible to be president now. Do we dare have another Trump/Clinton election,between the kids? George P Bush could be in the mix also, who is currently Commissioner of the Texas General Land Office.    :mellow:
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I think the orphans aren't eating the gruel anymore.

CVC also took a hit in WL, she needs to rest on her millions now.

 
It is well past time to get rid of all of the Clinton / 3rd way cronies and become a truly Progressive Party again. The GOP Lite economic policies are the primary reason that we lost the working class -- they feel betrayed, and they are completely justified in that belief. No more of this centrist bull#### playing both sides.

 
I think the Democratic party is under hostel take over by globalist George Soros. I don't know what you guys think of him but he is despised by people on the right. I believe these violent riots and protest that are going on are, in my opinion not real liberals or voters. I believe these are paid actors funded by Soros through different none profit organizations causing this violence. Sure there might be a few real citizens, but I truly believe the vast majority of Americans know what they are doing is wrong.  

I honestly hope you guys and gals can take back control and bring sanity back. Maybe I'm way off base here. I have enough sense to know I'm not well liked on this board and there are plenty of other threads I can #### post in so I won't clutter up this thread. I truly wish you folks the best of luck.

 
Democrats have to stop harping on common sense gun control.

Start caring about dumb Americans and their dumb jobs.  

Find a black man to run. 

ChaChing  2020. 

 
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culdeus said:
The DNC is going to be in quite the jam.  If you recall from as early as January I started pointing out that the hypothetical Trump presidency would actually be quite liberal.  That his dogwhistle racism type stuff, and anti-immigration stuff wouldn't, and couldn't turn in to actual policy.  Then, you are left behind a lot of of his anti-establishment items, items that bear a lot more similarity to what Bernie was peddling than what Cruz was peddling.  And that's before his isolationist and protectionist trade policy, which is certainly the anti-Reagan.

Trump has the potential to piss off both sides, and create somewhat of a stalemate.  I don't think that it's a matter of who the DNC runs but how they run the campaign that matters.  

Trump outflanked HRC on the message of jobs/economy by tearing huge pages out of the Obama playbook and it worked.  

DNC needs to find the right messenger to appeal to the lower class whites.  The form that that takes is going to be very interesting.  I have to assume they never thought they would be needing a new nominee this soon.  They have to HTFU and find one.
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How about Trump?  Trump flip flops for his second term. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
IIRC Dean was chair for Obama 08, right? And he was on the right tack vs Kerry in 04.

The man may know something. Then the party went all-out for the Hillary people, Kaine and DWS and Brazille, and their crew, or rather I think their taking over signaled the plan had been go to Hillary after Obama since 08.

Otoh if Schumer is backing Ellison that's probably what's happening. I'm not really confident Ellison is the right direction though.
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Dean's biggest thing was that he implemented the 50 State Strategy, whereas in the past Democrats were content to let certain states automatically go Red at the gubanatorial, State Legislature and Congressional offices.  He sought out viable candidates who were more tailored to the state they were running in that just the generic cookie cutter DNC candidate. .  To me, looking at some of their candidates for even as high as the Senate.....they need to get back to this.  If you need to court right of center Democrats to be competitive in states like WV,TN,TX and various other points...so be it.  They need to fund these people for the inevitable backlash that will come if/when Democratic candidates take fire for the "antics" of the National Party (A lot of candidates like this lost in 10 and 14 and IIRC, they weren't getting much help).  

 
Dexter said:
I think the Democratic party is under hostel take over by globalist George Soros. I don't know what you guys think of him but he is despised by people on the right. I believe these violent riots and protest that are going on are, in my opinion not real liberals or voters. I believe these are paid actors funded by Soros through different none profit organizations causing this violence. Sure there might be a few real citizens, but I truly believe the vast majority of Americans know what they are doing is wrong.  

I honestly hope you guys and gals can take back control and bring sanity back. Maybe I'm way off base here. I have enough sense to know I'm not well liked on this board and there are plenty of other threads I can #### post in so I won't clutter up this thread. I truly wish you folks the best of luck.
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Soros can afford to stay in nicer places than a hostel

ETA:  ...or the Democratic Party for that matter

 
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Gr00vus said:
Here's an interesting post-mortem article that attempts to explains what just happened, and that we liberals need to be cognizant of. I'll cross post it in the Sanders thread.
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It's a provocative article that resonates for me because I grew up in a working class neighborhood in Milwaukee before becoming a coastal elite.

The past and present described in the article doesn't necessarily doom the Democratic Party going forward.  The public was clearly ripe for a message like Trump's but the onus is on the GOP to deliver on that vision.  Nothing would surprise me after this week but I'm skeptical that helping the middle class will be Trump's priority.  The short term impact of trade wars will probably hurt the middle class more in terms of the price of goods than whatever GOP tax cuts could possibly help. 

Clinton was obviously a candidate with limited appeal to the middle class.  We knew this eight years ago and nothing in her campaign moved the needle.  It's not impossible for the Democrats to adjust their economic message but it'll be a challenge to broaden appeal on social issues while still satisfying the gotta haves from the left.  But I don't think the GOP is necessarily better positioned.  Trump is a one-off who isn't in step with the rest of his party.  I acknowledge my bias but I don't think many of the other sixteen candidates spoke to this group of voters.

 
Gopher State said:
Message to DNC from American voters:

we don't want more social programs, to include free college

reject socialism
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:lmao:    you tried for months to talk down Bernie - I'm pretty sure the above points were a little less important than that they thought that Hillary is a shrew

 
MaxThreshold said:
I keep seeing the resident liberals posting this.  It's becoming more apparent that Trump is going to win the popular vote too.  And as it stands right now (before the results are actual final), Hillary only won the popular vote by like 300K - hardly a number that signifies anything in a voter pool of roughly 120 million.
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Way to miss the greater point of my post. Trump is talking as if he's been handed a mandate, but he clearly hasn't. The vote was MUCH closer than the EC totals in the end, and his pull of actual votes was quite low for a losing candidate, let alone for a winning one.

 
Posted in the Hillary thread but I'll cross post it here also:

The Comey letter probably cost Hillary the election but we have no way of knowing. Democrats should be focusing their energy on figuring out how to get their voters out in mid-term and local elections right now. All the protesting and what-ifs in the world aren't going to change the outcome. 

Beyond that I think Democrats/Liberals/Progressives need to look long and hard at how they approach trade. Protectionist trade policies/practices aren't the answer for the economy as a whole or low-middle income workers specifically. Instead of pandering like Hillary and Trump did (though in Trump's case he seems to actually believe in mercantilism so it's not necessarily pandering) we should be looking for better ideas to share the benefits of free global markets. I also think we need to do a better job of refocusing discussions of race and equality. We can't allow this to become a minorities vs. the white working class conversation, which is exactly what Republicans want it to be. Policies that help the poor and working class benefit all races, genders, and orientations. That messaging never came out at all this cycle. 

 
If the GOP delivers a slew of social conservative laws for the next 2 years, they will get slaughtered in the mid terms and in 2020. 

 
Eephus said:
It's a provocative article that resonates for me because I grew up in a working class neighborhood in Milwaukee before becoming a coastal elite.

The past and present described in the article doesn't necessarily doom the Democratic Party going forward.  The public was clearly ripe for a message like Trump's but the onus is on the GOP to deliver on that vision.  Nothing would surprise me after this week but I'm skeptical that helping the middle class will be Trump's priority.  The short term impact of trade wars will probably hurt the middle class more in terms of the price of goods than whatever GOP tax cuts could possibly help. 

Clinton was obviously a candidate with limited appeal to the middle class.  We knew this eight years ago and nothing in her campaign moved the needle.  It's not impossible for the Democrats to adjust their economic message but it'll be a challenge to broaden appeal on social issues while still satisfying the gotta haves from the left.  But I don't think the GOP is necessarily better positioned.  Trump is a one-off who isn't in step with the rest of his party.  I acknowledge my bias but I don't think many of the other sixteen candidates spoke to this group of voters.
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I think you are focusing too much on the presidential election and not enough on how Republicans have annhilated Dems in the House, Senate, and state elections over the past six years.

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
Posted in the Hillary thread but I'll cross post it here also:

The Comey letter probably cost Hillary the election but we have no way of knowing. Democrats should be focusing their energy on figuring out how to get their voters out in mid-term and local elections right now. All the protesting and what-ifs in the world aren't going to change the outcome. 

Beyond that I think Democrats/Liberals/Progressives need to look long and hard at how they approach trade. Protectionist trade policies/practices aren't the answer for the economy as a whole or low-middle income workers specifically. Instead of pandering like Hillary and Trump did (though in Trump's case he seems to actually believe in mercantilism so it's not necessarily pandering) we should be looking for better ideas to share the benefits of free global markets. I also think we need to do a better job of refocusing discussions of race and equality. We can't allow this to become a minorities vs. the white working class conversation, which is exactly what Republicans want it to be. Policies that help the poor and working class benefit all races, genders, and orientations. That messaging never came out at all this cycle. 
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I think this one was on the media as well. BLM and immigration were huge media drivers.

Remember the picture that police released with the couple that heroin overdosed with their kid in the backseat?  That was an act of desperation to get some attention to what was happening.  How long did that conversation last?  A week?

I don't see the media backtracking on any of this.  Racial tension drives ratings.  They can't help themselves and I fully expect Republicans to reach out where the Democrats wouldn't.

 
jonessed said:
I think you are focusing too much on the presidential election and not enough on how Republicans have annhilated Dems in the House, Senate, and state elections over the past six years.
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Fair point but you have to remember I live in the bluest part of a state that's been generally blue for two generations.  The GOP couldn't even get a candidate on the ballot for the US Senate runoff.

It's impossible for a layman to get a good read on state legislative races while flying over.  Gerrymandering doesn't help but that's only going to get worse.  The population dynamics of people and jobs leaving the states seems to favor the Republicans.  I don't know how much national Democratic stances on social issues damage candidates in local elections but that message is crucial to the base.   I suspect this hurts more in rural areas but they're probably lost to the Democrats for the foreseeable future.  The county-by-country maps in the battleground states should frighten/motivate the DNC.  The purple areas in the suburbs and exurbs went for Trump, as they have in recent statewide elections.  I think this is where smart people in the party should be focusing their attention.

 
I hope the DNC will do something to show that it is no longer a party riddled with corruption.  Everything I have seen do far does not make me optimistic.  The lack of internal outcry indicates they will continue to accept dark money from donors.

 
Eephus said:
Fair point but you have to remember I live in the bluest part of a state that's been generally blue for two generations.  The GOP couldn't even get a candidate on the ballot for the US Senate runoff.

It's impossible for a layman to get a good read on state legislative races while flying over.  Gerrymandering doesn't help but that's only going to get worse.  The population dynamics of people and jobs leaving the states seems to favor the Republicans.  I don't know how much national Democratic stances on social issues damage candidates in local elections but that message is crucial to the base.   I suspect this hurts more in rural areas but they're probably lost to the Democrats for the foreseeable future.  The county-by-country maps in the battleground states should frighten/motivate the DNC.  The purple areas in the suburbs and exurbs went for Trump, as they have in recent statewide elections.  I think this is where smart people in the party should be focusing their attention.
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Its 2016.  You can live in the deepest blue or the deepest red and still get information on what's happening outside of your immediate echo chamber.  You just have to decide you care enough to read about it.

People liked Obama.  They didnt like a lot of his policies.  Given how close the election was I think some are losing sight of the fact that Hillary was running against Donald ####### Trump.  Hillary was a bad candidate, but she should have been safe running against a thin-skinned buffoon.  He was a terrible candidate and he was considered as such by a lot of the people who held their nose and voted for him.  The Democratic agenda had fallen so far out of the mainstream that it didn't matter anymore.

- Title IX should have never been used as a gender identity weapon.

- The annhilation of the coal industry should not have been taken so far, so fast without a plan to help the areas it devastated.

- The idea that poor people need help is not a race based issue.

- Obamacare was unpopular when it passed and only went downhill from there.  It was a poorly written law.

- Illegal immigrant felons should not be continually released back into the country.  This was a problem created by the courts that the Administration never chose to address.

That's a pretty short list that will be addressed, in part, the instant Trump walks into office by killing Obama's executive orders.  That's the problem with law via executive order.  It has no staying power.

Hubris kills.  Thankfully gay marriage is here to stay, but everything else is gone.  It was really never all that popular to begin with.  Most of the country won't miss it.  

 
jonessed said:
Its 2016.  You can live in the deepest blue or the deepest red and still get information on what's happening outside of your immediate echo chamber.  You just have to decide you care enough to read about it.

People liked Obama.  They didnt like a lot of his policies.  Given how close the election was I think some are losing sight of the fact that Hillary was running against Donald ####### Trump.  Hillary was a bad candidate, but she should have been safe running against a thin-skinned buffoon.  He was a terrible candidate and he was considered as such by a lot of the people who held their nose and voted for him.  The Democratic agenda had fallen so far out of the mainstream that it didn't matter anymore.

- Title IX should have never been used as a gender identity weapon.

- The annhilation of the coal industry should not have been taken so far, so fast without a plan to help the areas it devastated.

- The idea that poor people need help is not a race based issue.

- Obamacare was unpopular when it passed and only went downhill from there.  It was a poorly written law.

- Illegal immigrant felons should not be continually released back into the country.  This was a problem created by the courts that the Administration never chose to address.

That's a pretty short list that will be addressed, in part, the instant Trump walks into office by killing Obama's executive orders.  That's the problem with law via executive order.  It has no staying power.

Hubris kills.  Thankfully gay marriage is here to stay, but everything else is gone.  It was really never all that popular to begin with.  Most of the country won't miss it.  
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I'm not sure what key Democrat policies you think are outside the mainstream?

A majority of the population favors full reproductive rights, sensible gun control measures, Social Security, Universal healthcare, renewable energy vs. carbon, and generally side with the more liberal position on taxes. 

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
I'm not sure what key Democrat policies you think are outside the mainstream?

A majority of the population favors full reproductive rights, sensible gun control measures, Social Security, Universal healthcare, renewable energy vs. carbon, and generally side with the more liberal position on taxes. 
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The ones I pointed out in the post you quoted.

Pro-choice isn't changing, sensible gun rights is subjective and wasn't a big issue this election, Social Security isn't going away, the Democrats failed with Obamacare, renewable energy isn't going away.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/02/people-have-no-idea-what-single-payer-means/471045/

Universal Healthcare in particular is tricky because many of the people that support the idea do not support what it would take to implement.

 
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jonessed said:
The ones I pointed out in the post you quoted.

Pro-choice isn't changing, sensible gun rights is subjective and wasn't a big issue this election, Social Security isn't going away, the Democrats failed with Obamacare, renewable energy isn't going away.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/02/people-have-no-idea-what-single-payer-means/471045/

Universal Healthcare in particular is tricky because many of the people that support the idea do not support what it would take to implement.
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I'm struggling to find most of those in the Democratic platform. Your post was mostly straw men.

 
Gr00vus said:
I'm struggling to find most of those in the Democratic platform. Your post was mostly straw men.
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I was referring to policies, not platform.  Perhaps I didn't make that clear.  I was making the point that Obama was popular, but a lot of his policies were not.

 
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Arsenal of Doom said:
Posted in the Hillary thread but I'll cross post it here also:

The Comey letter probably cost Hillary the election but we have no way of knowing. Democrats should be focusing their energy on figuring out how to get their voters out in mid-term and local elections right now. All the protesting and what-ifs in the world aren't going to change the outcome. 

Beyond that I think Democrats/Liberals/Progressives need to look long and hard at how they approach trade. Protectionist trade policies/practices aren't the answer for the economy as a whole or low-middle income workers specifically. Instead of pandering like Hillary and Trump did (though in Trump's case he seems to actually believe in mercantilism so it's not necessarily pandering) we should be looking for better ideas to share the benefits of free global markets. I also think we need to do a better job of refocusing discussions of race and equality. We can't allow this to become a minorities vs. the white working class conversation, which is exactly what Republicans want it to be. Policies that help the poor and working class benefit all races, genders, and orientations. That messaging never came out at all this cycle. 
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:bs:

If that is what you think then you haven't learned a thing from this election. 

 
 


The New York Times Verified account ‏@nytimes


Democratic losses have jolted the party to a conclusion: Its emphasis on cultural issues has all but crippled it. http://nyti.ms/2eSDQLx 
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- The way I remember it, this is what dragged the GOP down and out of control of Congress and the WH in 2008. Maybe neither party can restrain themselves from constantly chanting their cultural views on the rest of the country. That may not be why we elect people as it turns out.
 
Where to go from here?  How about putting Bernie in charge of the whole ####### thing.  We saw where having women in charge got you.  You got corruption and entitlement.  Wasserman-Schulz doomed this party.  Hillary should never have been the candidate.  She's a terrible person.  She figured she was entitled to be the new Cleopatra.  She wasn't.  The corruption and wiring in the candidate was disgrace.  #### that ####, let the people decide. 

I think this party needs to be less about hurting feelings and more about unions and working class grunts.   Instead of blue collar middle class support, this is the party of Pro-Abortion, gay rights, and not offending people.  They've lost themselves.  Those are issue but they are not the biggest issues.  How many people do you know that have had an abortion?  How many gay people?  Not that many.  Sure people should be treated with respect but they are a small fraction of the constituency.  

This party needs to focus on jobs.  That's it.  Abortion isn't going anywhere.  You won.  It's like I tell my kids, when you get what you want .... stop talking.  The right continues to sucker you into debating this stuff all the while stripping rights of workers and destroying unions.  

Get back to being the working class hero Donkies.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
 


- The way I remember it, this is what dragged the GOP down and out of control of Congress and the WH in 2008. Maybe neither party can restrain themselves from constantly chanting their cultural views on the rest of the country. That may not be why we elect people as it turns out.
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This X1000.   Cultural issues are not as important as economic issues.  Don't worry, Trump is going to run this economy into the ground...I have no doubt there will be plenty of chances to smash him on the economy.  Don't waste those chances on PC bull####.  All we ever hear about are gays and abortion.  Abortion is settled.  Gays are a very small percentage of people.  They should be treated with respect.   Of course.  But they should not be the center of your campaign.  Because most people just don't care.  They care about their kids not having health coverage.  They care about going further into debt.  

Jobs.  Jobs. Jobs.  Hammer it.  Over and over and over.   

And shut the #### up about gun control.  Good lord.   I know several guys who vote only because Clinton was going to take away their guns.  Dems need to stop banging that drum.  Let the red necks keep their guns.   Let them buy AR15s if they want to.  Who gives a ####?  Most people just like to go with off at the range for them.  This is America.  People get to have guns here.  Rich people get to have bigger guns.  

 
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Sabertooth said:
This X1000.   Cultural issues are not as important as economic issues.  Don't worry, Trump is going to run this economy into the ground...I have no doubt there will be plenty of chances to smash him on the economy.  Don't waste those chances on PC bull####.  All we ever hear about are gays and abortion.  Abortion is settled.  Gays are a very small percentage of people.  They should be treated with respect.   Of course.  But they should not be the center of your campaign.  Because most people just don't care.  They care about their kids not having health coverage.  They care about going further into debt.  

Jobs.  Jobs. Jobs.  Hammer it.  Over and over and over.   

And shut the #### up about gun control.  Good lord.   I know several guys who vote only because Clinton was going to take away their guns.  Dems need to stop banging that drum.  Let the red necks keep their guns.   Let them buy AR15s if they want to.  Who gives a ####?  Most people just like to go with off at the range for them.  This is America.  People get to have guns here.  Rich people get to have bigger guns.  
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It's really weird that gun nuts actually believe Hillary was going to confiscate their guns.

 
Sabertooth said:
This X1000.   Cultural issues are not as important as economic issues.  Don't worry, Trump is going to run this economy into the ground...I have no doubt there will be plenty of chances to smash him on the economy.  Don't waste those chances on PC bull####.  All we ever hear about are gays and abortion.  Abortion is settled.  Gays are a very small percentage of people.  They should be treated with respect.   Of course.  But they should not be the center of your campaign.  Because most people just don't care.  They care about their kids not having health coverage.  They care about going further into debt.  

Jobs.  Jobs. Jobs.  Hammer it.  Over and over and over.   
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You realize Republican states are passing laws left and right to restrict women's access to reproductive services and to enable/protect a wide range of discrimination? Trump is already saying Roe v. Wade will be repealed and women will need to go to other states for abortion access, which is a huge burden on the poor. 

This doesn't need to be an either/or proposition. It's possible to simultaneously be on the side of social issues that the majority of the country agrees with and point out that Republicans favor economic policy that favors the rich and does little for the working class. 

I agree that messaging was lacking in this election. The Clinton campaign decided that it would be enough to disqualify Trump and that proved to be wrong, but I think it's dangerous to assume anything is settled when the other side clearly disagrees and is currently emboldened. 

 
pantagrapher said:
It's really weird that gun nuts actually believe Hillary was going to confiscate their guns.
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no it isn't weird.  It's what they've been hearing on talk radio for 8 ####### years every single day on their commute.  Of course they believe it.  Of course it's a straw man.  And then when Obama comes out and talks about it, they just get confirmation of their fears.  

So shut up about it.  When a night club gets shot up.  Don't mention guns.  Or better, come out and say this is why we are no longer the party of restricting gun rights.  We were wrong, we need to have more guns in the hands of the citizen.  Just totally go 180 on it and agree.  It's ok to agree.

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
You realize Republican states are passing laws left and right to restrict women's access to reproductive services and to enable/protect a wide range of discrimination? Trump is already saying Roe v. Wade will be repealed and women will need to go to other states for abortion access, which is a huge burden on the poor. 

This doesn't need to be an either/or proposition. It's possible to simultaneously be on the side of social issues that the majority of the country agrees with and point out that Republicans favor economic policy that favors the rich and does little for the working class. 

I agree that messaging was lacking in this election. The Clinton campaign decided that it would be enough to disqualify Trump and that proved to be wrong, but I think it's dangerous to assume anything is settled when the other side clearly disagrees and is currently emboldened. 
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Let Trump try to repeal it.  He won't be able to.   And if he does, well maybe these people who are too stupid to not get knocked up should learn to ####### vote.

To the victor goes the spoils.  Deal with it. 

Jobs is where it is at.

 
pantagrapher said:
It's really weird that gun nuts actually believe Hillary was going to confiscate their guns.
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They thought that Obama was going to take them, too. The NRA pours tens of millions of dollars into advertising to encourage people to feel this way. What's really odd is that nothing at all gets done despite the vast majority of the country essentially agreeing on what needs to happen (background checks, etc).

 
MaxThreshold said:
:bs:

If that is what you think then you haven't learned a thing from this election. 
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I've said there are plenty of reasons Clinton lost. The Trump campaign and everyone in the media declared the Comey letter a game changer when it came out, so I hardly think it's going out on a limb to acknowledge it probably played a roll when barely over 100,000 votes out of 120+ million cast ended up determining the electoral outcome. 

I've also said it's not worth focusing on since it has nothing to do with anything going forward. 

 
Sabertooth said:
no it isn't weird.  It's what they've been hearing on talk radio for 8 ####### years every single day on their commute.  Of course they believe it.  Of course it's a straw man.  And then when Obama comes out and talks about it, they just get confirmation of their fears.  

So shut up about it.  When a night club gets shot up.  Don't mention guns.  Or better, come out and say this is why we are no longer the party of restricting gun rights.  We were wrong, we need to have more guns in the hands of the citizen.  Just totally go 180 on it and agree.  It's ok to agree.
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No

 
Sabertooth said:
Where to go from here?  How about putting Bernie in charge of the whole ####### thing.  We saw where having women in charge got you.  You got corruption and entitlement.  Wasserman-Schulz doomed this party.  Hillary should never have been the candidate.  She's a terrible person.  She figured she was entitled to be the new Cleopatra.  She wasn't.  The corruption and wiring in the candidate was disgrace.  #### that ####, let the people decide. 

I think this party needs to be less about hurting feelings and more about unions and working class grunts.   Instead of blue collar middle class support, this is the party of Pro-Abortion, gay rights, and not offending people.  They've lost themselves.  Those are issue but they are not the biggest issues.  How many people do you know that have had an abortion?  How many gay people?  Not that many.  Sure people should be treated with respect but they are a small fraction of the constituency.  

This party needs to focus on jobs.  That's it.  Abortion isn't going anywhere.  You won.  It's like I tell my kids, when you get what you want .... stop talking.  The right continues to sucker you into debating this stuff all the while stripping rights of workers and destroying unions.  

Get back to being the working class hero Donkies.  
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How are you going to do that when stuff like climate change and the environment  causes you to have policies detrimental to them?

 
pantagrapher said:
It's really weird that gun nuts actually believe Hillary was going to confiscate their guns.
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John King on CNN did a really cool time lapse on his magic map where he showed the midwest & upstate NY and showed the 200+ counties which had slowly turned from red to blue then sort of back to red and then totally red from 2004-2016.

I think it would be a mistake to think they turned blue because of Obama's gun control message in 08 and it would be a mistake to think they turned red because of the GOP's gun rights message. The point is they are prioritizing other things. If you spend time on gun control messaging there you lose time that could have been spent on something else that does matter.

 
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One key factor that everybody passes over is that Trumps rise in the polls began as the rates for health insurance were being rolled out.   I think this was bigger factor than Comey or anything else...

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
John King on CNN did a really cool time lapse on his magic map where he showed the midwest & upstate NY and showed the 200+ counties which had slowly turned from red to blue then sort of back to red and then totally red from 2004-2016.

I think it would be a mistake to think they turned blue because of Obama's gun control message in 08 and it woudl be a mistake to think they turned red because of the GOP's gun rights message. The point is they are prioritizing other things. If you spend time on gun control messaging there you lose time that could have been spent on something else.
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I think it would be a mistake to use this election as a test for any specific policy item, they were all crowded out by character and personality issues. 

 
Sabertooth said:
Why you got something against people who don't speak English?  You must be a racist.  
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What don't you understand about my post? I'll try to write it better.

How are you going to be the party of jobs and blue collar workers when your policies are detrimental to that?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
John King on CNN did a really cool time lapse on his magic map where he showed the midwest & upstate NY and showed the 200+ counties which had slowly turned from red to blue then sort of back to red and then totally red from 2004-2016.

I think it would be a mistake to think they turned blue because of Obama's gun control message in 08 and it would be a mistake to think they turned red because of the GOP's gun rights message. The point is they are prioritizing other things. If you spend time on gun control messaging there you lose time that could have been spent on something else that does matter.
Click to expand...
Yup.  And you are largely alienating people who would vote for you.  I am Democrat.  I do not want my guns taken away.  So quit pushing me away. 

 
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