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A week later, I am still crushed. The perspective of a mixed-race marriage and a loss of trust (2 Viewers)

Ignoratio Elenchi said:
A lot of us felt like this was always a false equivalence.  Like, "Yeah our guy sucks but she sucks too!"  I wasn't thrilled about Hillary but I think Trump is far worse. :shrug:
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And many people thought Hillary was far worse that Trump... just like any other election.  But with so many people painting with such a broad brush about Trump voters, sometimes it feels necessary to remind the left that candidate sucked too.

 
MaxThreshold said:
Okay, I've had about enough of this crap.  You guys are a bunch of fragile flowers.  How have you made it this far in life?  Seriously?  This is simply amazing that grown ### men have become a bunch of wussies.  You should really turn in your man card if you're having this much trouble.

I'd hate to see how you react when your internet goes out or when someone says "no" to you.  Do your run to your safe space?  Maybe quick dial your therapist to help you make it thru your difficult period?

I seriously could only make it thru about the first 20 posts before I had to give up.  I'm not even going to bother with the rest of the pages.  Uggh.
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With all of the whining, a popular quote during the election is being changed to "Grab them by the Democrat."

 
Gr00vus said:
Odd that people would want to keep that episode front and center. Not very smart.
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You are right. Damn, I was going to make millions by putting that on shirts, hats and coffee mugs.   :kicksrock:

I really could have used a new coffee mug.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
I am not stating an i-fight, I'm finishing it.  

What you should do is simply quit the internet, go commit a crime, return to prison.  Your overt racist posts and your unfunny delivery is no longer required here, TIA. 
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Typical democrat inciting someone to go out and commit a crime. 

 
msommer said:
Hundreds of hate attacks recorded in US since election
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Ones that those recording it describe it as "anecdotal but not a fantasy". And AFTER they start looking for it?

Seems akin to realizing how many other people drive the car you just bought when you didn't recognize them at all before.

It doesn't excuse the idiots saying their idiotic things, of course. But like we see here, people say crazy things when they can hide behind their keyboards.

 
Capella said:
It's amazing how people have the ability to completely ignore this. 
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The group said its new tracking method had found "on an anecdotal level [the increase in hate attacks] has been obvious".
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They are using anecdotal evidence to come to the "obvious" conclusion that hate crimes are on the rise by Trump supporters... sorry if I don't really buy this.  Sounds more like they are trying to prove something they already believe.

However, I will say anyone (on either side) who physically attacks/treatens/etc. someone based on their political views is a POS - can we at least agree on that?

 
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Capella said:
It's amazing how people have the ability to completely ignore this. 
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So all of these crimes wouldn't have happened if Hilary won?

Explain that position to all the black people killed by police recently. NOT while Trump was president. 

Maybe it took Trump winning for white people to get a clue to what is actually going on in America. 

 
I have to admit I haven't read the whole thread, but I did read Koya's OP and his 2nd.

Let me say there was a time I was quite involved in local politics. After Katrina I came back roaring like an 18 wheeler on fire on Main Street.

I wanted change. I wanted permanent, undeniable change for the betterment of my family, and I felt quite patriotic about my little island and state like people do about their country. 

I had worked on campaigns but this time I got involved. Reform and change don't come like you want often. To tell you the truth they rarely come at all. When you turn around the people may not be following you over the hill like you thought. The bad guys can win and often do. Getting personally involved can be frustrating, things don't go as you like, and the truth is the outside world is often outside your control. Thing is you cannot let this affect you to the point you are in crisis. Humans are inexorably weak. We are mercurial. We  revert to seemingly antique behaviors we thought abandoned a century ago.

On a personal level you need to block out things which are irrelevant to your life - how is your life right now at this very moment? How are you interacting with people? Is the election affecting the way you exist? Do you have food? Warmth? Is your SO ok? Your children? Your family? Your home? Your dog? Those things are real.

Perspective is important.

The reality is that Post Cold War the US is not unlike other nations. Unhinged from the rubric created by WW1 & WW2 other nations have reverted to old nationalist, ethnic and religious coda. Why should the US not also be subject to these forces?

My feeling is that personally and in politics things are process oriented. In real life don't let outside forces affect you personally. Love is realer than anything. Your awareness of your existence and the presciousness of it are paramount. If you need to turn off the tv and the internet to do that accomplish that discipline to do it. But whatever you do never, abandon hope.

In politics it's the same thing. If we rely on our democracy, our freedom of speech, and all our rights, our belief in our ideals that is our rock. Focus on that. And put what is going on in the context of history, your unshakeable belief in your country, and the knowledge that you are stronger than any one storm going on around you.

 
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PIK95 said:
I did.  My parents are out!  I hope I would have done the same in 1940 or whenever that election was.
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What if your kids or grandkids feel the same way in the future, but for the other side or some other reason? "You're out"!

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Perspective is important.
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Well the thread is 14 pages because when electrons turn to feelings then people take note, some sympathize and some troll because they are who they are.  Whether you agree or not with Koya isn't the issue, it's whether you can put together three consecutive cogent sentences to respond to him.  So take a look at the first few pages with the :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: and :lmao: and :cry: posts and that kind of tells you who is who around here. 

I honestly don't understand everything Koya wrote because he kind of went Gekko there, but at least he's being honest with himself about things and was willing to share it.  It beats the Bernie Sanders or liberal intolerance thread, it's not all reactive :bs:   that no one cares about.  I like reading things from the heart, even if I don't agree with or understand everything.  :2cents:  

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
It's been a week since the electoral result differed from expectations by about two percent. Is that two percent really enough to change your view about the electorate? If you're bummed about the electorate now, you should have been about equally bummed a few weeks ago. If you were optimistic a few weeks ago, you should still be optimistic now. The electorate is who we thought they were.
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On an intellectual level, you're obviously right.  We knew all along that around 60 million people were going to vote for Trump.  It was disgraceful when he won his first delegate, disgraceful when he got the nomination, and disgraceful when he won his first electoral votes.  A few more votes shouldn't really make much of a difference in how we view things.  But on an emotional level, it's different when those votes come in victory instead of defeat. 

This week has been weird for me because I'm pulled in a bunch of different directions.  I sincerely enjoyed seeing Hillary flame out, and I'm extremely confident that the "surge in hate crimes" this week is pure fantasy.  Normally I would be mocking people who are out there protesting the new president.  But the new president is Donald Trump, and that's not in the same universe as George W. Bush or Barack Obama.  This really is a weird and non-standard time.

 
Just a friendly reminder no President has more than 3 years tops to #### things up. Then the other team comes in and fixes it.

It'll be alright

 
tommyboy said:
What kind of person 86's his parents over a vote? Hfs
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My Brother-in law is a really unreasonably conservative thinker and he likes to get details and facts wrong.  My Dad is just left of Bernie Sanders, he is the most well-read person I know but takes politics personal.  I try to offer perspective to both when we get together although both are too extreme relative to my political views.  My BIL is a good father to my nieces and he likes to fish, so he's ok in my book.  Dr D Sr is awesome, I learned to say it like it is from him.   I wouldn't dare talk to either this week. 

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
It's been a week since the electoral result differed from expectations by about two percent. Is that two percent really enough to change your view about the electorate? If you're bummed about the electorate now, you should have been about equally bummed a few weeks ago. If you were optimistic a few weeks ago, you should still be optimistic now. The electorate is who we thought they were.
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As usual from Maurile. This. 

I think the degree to which this election was surprising represents how much of a bubble one lives in.  A third of my facebook feed thinks Trump is the Messiah. A third thinks he's the Anti Christ. And a third are like me and in the middle. For what it's worth, that was the exact same breakdown for Obama. It is what it is.

J

 
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Doctor Detroit said:
Well the thread is 14 pages because when electrons turn to feelings then people take note, some sympathize and some troll because they are who they are.  Whether you agree or not with Koya isn't the issue, it's whether you can put together three consecutive cogent sentences to respond to him.  So take a look at the first few pages with the :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: and :lmao: and :cry: posts and that kind of tells you who is who around here. 

I honestly don't understand everything Koya wrote because he kind of went Gekko there, but at least he's being honest with himself about things and was willing to share it.  It beats the Bernie Sanders or liberal intolerance thread, it's not all reactive :bs:   that no one cares about.  I like reading things from the heart, even if I don't agree with or understand everything.  :2cents:  
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Are you saying if you don't sympathize, you're trolling?

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Not always, but I think his thoughts deserved a little compassion.  Busting his balls for it is one thing, what happened in here was quite another IMO.  
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I hate to tell you but he absolutely sounds like he needs to get off the ledge. Seriously. And he needs to hear it. Here, I'll start - IT'LL BE OK, BUT YOU ARE WRONG TO LET IT AFFECT YOUR FRIENDSHIP. 

 
T J said:
I hate to tell you but he absolutely sounds like he needs to get off the ledge. Seriously. And he needs to hear it. Here, I'll start - IT'LL BE OK, BUT YOU ARE WRONG TO LET IT AFFECT YOUR FRIENDSHIP. 
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Sure, that's a reasonable bit of advice. 

 
T J said:
I hate to tell you but he absolutely sounds like he needs to get off the ledge. Seriously. And he needs to hear it. Here, I'll start - IT'LL BE OK, BUT YOU ARE WRONG TO LET IT AFFECT YOUR FRIENDSHIP. 
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No. He absolutely needs this to affect his friendship.

His friend doesn't deserve it. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
As usual from Maurile. This. 

I think the degree to which this election was surprising represents how much of a bubble one lives in.  A third of my facebook feed thinks Trump is the Messiah. A third thinks he's the Anti Christ. And a third are like me and in the middle. For what it's worth, that was the exact same breakdown for Obama. It is what it is.

J
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Joe, your like to post ratio is really bad.  @ClownCausedChaos2 would be horrified.  Time to step up your game my friend. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
My Brother-in law is a really unreasonably conservative thinker and he likes to get details and facts wrong.  My Dad is just left of Bernie Sanders, he is the most well-read person I know but takes politics personal.  I try to offer perspective to both when we get together although both are too extreme relative to my political views.  My BIL is a good father to my nieces and he likes to fish, so he's ok in my book.  Dr D Sr is awesome, I learned to say it like it is from him.   I wouldn't dare talk to either this week. 
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my best friend the last 29 years is an artistic arch liberal.  I'm sure we've voted exactly opposite thousands of times.   I can't imagine not talking to him over a vote or his political beliefs not aligning with mine.    Honestly life would be pretty boring if we all agreed all the time

 
Nugget said:
According to the Southern Poverty Law Center - Link

Seems like there are hundreds of hate attacks a day in the U.S.

We were a jacked up, hateful country long before Trump. 
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Good point.  How do we know there is an actual increase or just an increase in reporting?  Regardless these idiots should be thrown in jail.

 
Joe Bryant said:
As usual from Maurile. This. 

I think the degree to which this election was surprising represents how much of a bubble one lives in.  A third of my facebook feed thinks Trump is the Messiah. A third thinks he's the Anti Christ. And a third are like me and in the middle. For what it's worth, that was the exact same breakdown for Obama. It is what it is.

J
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Would have thought another third would have had some thoughts about the lousy candidate Hillary turned out to be.  :shrug:

 
Pipes said:
Good point.  How do we know there is an actual increase or just an increase in reporting?  Regardless these idiots should be thrown in jail.
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WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. reported Monday that attacks against American Muslims surged last year, driving an overall increase in hate crime against all groups.

The data, which is the most comprehensive look at hate crime nationwide, expanded on previous findings by researchers and outside monitors, who have noted an alarming rise in some types of crimes tied to the vitriol of this year’s presidential campaign and the aftermath of terrorist attacks at home and abroad since 2015.

That trend appears to have spiked in just the last week, with civil rights groups and news organizations reporting dozens of verbal or physical assaults on minorities and others that appear to have been fueled by divisions over the election.

In its report on Monday, the F.B.I. cataloged a total of 5,818 hate crimes in 2015 — a rise of about 6 percent over the previous year — including assaults, bombings, threats, and property destruction against minorities, women, gays and others.

Attacks against Muslim Americans saw the biggest surge. There were 257 reports of assaults, attacks on mosques and other hate crimes against Muslims last year, a jump of about 67 percent over 2014. It was the highest total since 2001, when more than 480 attacks occurred in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks.





Attacks against transgender people also sharply increased.





 
Blacks were the most frequent victims of hate crimes based on race, while Jews were the most frequent victims based on religion, according to the F.B.I. data. But the increases in attacks on these groups were smaller than the rise in attacks against Muslims and transgender people.

Over all, 59 percent of the hate crimes that the F.B.I. recorded were based on the victims’ race, ethnicity or ancestry. Religious bias accounted for about 20 percent of all attacks, and about 18 percent of attacks were based on sexual orientation.

Law enforcement officials acknowledge that the statistics give an incomplete picture because many local agencies still have a spotty record of reporting hate crimes, 26 years after Congress directed the Justice Department to begin collecting the data.

“We need to do a better job of tracking and reporting hate crime to fully understand what is happening in our communities and how to stop it,” James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director, said Monday. The F.B.I. regards the prosecution of hate crimes under federal jurisdiction as the top priority of its civil rights branch.

Since the election, hate crime monitors like the Southern Poverty Law Center have reported a rash of verbal or physical abuse targeting minorities and others at schools, mosques and elsewhere.

Some supporters of President-elect Donald J. Trump, however, say they too have been victimized.
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Andy Dufresne said:
Ones that those recording it describe it as "anecdotal but not a fantasy". And AFTER they start looking for it?

Seems akin to realizing how many other people drive the car you just bought when you didn't recognize them at all before.

It doesn't excuse the idiots saying their idiotic things, of course. But like we see here, people say crazy things when they can hide behind their keyboards.
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Exactly!!

The bottom line is when either side does stupid racist things it is not okay. One side does not have a corner on this market.

But when you have the MSM "looking" for incidents from one side (while completely not reporting any of the actions of the other side) you have what is akin to the 2001 Summer of Sharks all over again. You know the summer where the media made it seem that any body of water was just a death pool of hungry sharks waiting to kill and maim, but yet when it was all said and done, there were no more deaths and attacks than any other year. 

Some of you seriously need to just stop the fearmongering, turn off your damn TVs and work to make "your" own America great. 

 
Koya said:
I know there are a number of other threads. I don't give a ####.  I've remained mostly silent in the past week, digesting the events, understanding the calculus less of how we got here (that's fairly obvious to me, with plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the aisle).  But this morning I realized... a family who would have been at the top of my list as Godparents for my wife and I when we have children voted for Trump, and actively support him.  

And then I realized, this election went far further than politics.  It's not that I "won't be friends" with them anymore... but we obviously have hugely different views on the world. And they helped elect someone that has either actively called out and/or encouraged others to do the same while surrounding himself with others who do the same re: racism, anti-semitism, bigotry. Someone who admitted to sexually assaulting someone.  Someone who belittles those with disabilities.

But back to what really struck me... it's a week later and we see instances of hate cropping up with greater frequency than ever.  Boosted by a candidate and his supporters pushing white-nationalism and sowing the seeds of hatred and division.  As some here know, this all with my growing up the son of a Holocaust survivor who studied the rise of a man not unlike Trump in his stated beliefs and certainly approach and rhetoric.  Add to that the fact that my wife is part Latina, African American and Native American and I realize, these people literally support and helped elect someone who has put our lives and freedom, to some degree, in question.

As I stated on facebook, because i needed to emote and don't know where to go from here, on a personal level:


It's been a week since my country broke my heart. To know that nearly half of those who voted were 100% willing to support a clear bigot, racist, fraudulent conman is, honestly, scary. You may not (or may) be racist yourselves, but either way you are clearly ok with electing a President who is that, and by his own words and deeds, more. Someone who incites the worst human fears by tapping into the virulism of bigotry and division. I'm not looking to get into a back and forth on this post, it's just me emotive thoughts, I have no more energy than that. Just know that you have me thinking:

"How can I, someone in a mixed-race marriage, who wishes to have mixed-race children, ever fully trust a nation and those in it who helped elect and support someone who has purposefully singled people out by race, religion and ethnicity in the worst of ways?"

To those people, please understand that this rises above Politics. This is an affront to me, my wife, my future children. You have your reasons, I am sure. You can blame Hillary, the establishment, the lack of attention to the middle class... But please recognize and bear the responsibility for the choice to have helped make reality... an America that is less safe, less free, less equal than it was a week ago, with a direct impact on me, my family and our wellbeing. Even in the face of what some might have felt was a decision between the lesser of two evils, you chose the evil of inhumanity. In doing so, know that in all your adulation and celebration, you have done real harm to me, my family and millions like us who now are fearful of a nation that is supposed to be land of the free and home of the brave. I now question whether we are either, and moreso, what might it take to reclaim that banner?

Knowing there are those, even those close to me, who still support someone who is so clearly a bigoted racist, not to mention an admitted sexual assaulter, I honestly don't know if the bonds that have been frayed within me, bonds that extend decades in some case, can ever be truly rebuilt. After all, how could I feel safe letting my children be cared for by those who supported a bigot who has attacked their very ethnicity, encouraged others to discriminate and bully, someone who as of today is putting a white nationalist as his leading advisor?

It is a week later. I am still crushed. Not by the election, but the electorate, and especially those whom I thought shared a common ethos of decency, love and acceptance. How do we heal as a nation? We rebuild bonds, reinforce institutions, work together and find common ground. How do I heal as a human? I think to some degree, I never will. We can grow, we can learn, we can survive, evolve and thrive... but some lines, once crossed, can never again be whole. This election will forever be a demarcation whereby I recognized a lot more of this country stands against me and my family rather than for it. It is a week later. And I am still crushed.

 


 
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What I don't like about your post is we are forced to accept your premise that Trump is x y and z just because you said it?

What if we don't agree with your statements that Trump is a racist or a bigot and believe the media manipulated stupid people into thinking he was?

 
I think there is a bit of overreaction here. And Koya, I get how this affects you personally, but worrying about who will be the godparents of the hypothetical children you may have someday seems less than productive.

I understand the feelings of minorities and women about this election. My wife has been pretty despondent since last Tuesday. She just keeps telling me it's not about fear that something bad is going to happen; it's about the message. It's about the fact that such a large portion of this country apparently can overlook seemingly deep-rooted misogyny in the person they chose to be their leader. I would imagine minorities feel the same way. It's disappointing. But crying in our coffee isn't going to do anything about that. And maybe this is a good wake up call on many different levels. Maybe now is a good time to be active at the local level and work from within to fight for the causes you believe and and reassure our friends/neighbors/family that people do care and they aren't going to get left behind. 

I also can't understand breaking off friendships over who people voted for in this election. Obviously this is a pretty emotional time and it is easy to see the worst in people. After the election, people started coming out of the woodwork talking about the election - friends, neighbors, family members - and are now openly expressing their support of Trump and their excitement for his win. These are people I have known for a long time. These aren't bad people. I do think at a certain fundamental level, they were able to overlook racism and misogyny and xenophobia in their candidate and that is disappointing. But as many people have said in here, there are a lot of factors at play. We have one guy we're friends with, from suburban Philadelphia, who came out and is all excited that Trump one and his main reason was the second amendment - he doesn't own a gun. There are all kinds of random factors at play in why people did what they did. I can't imagine writing every person off because of how they voted.

I take my wife's family who lives in a small white town in the middle of nowhere and consumes their daily dose of Fox News and heaven knows what else on the internet. Big Trump supporters. They hear rhetoric and horror stories about the brown people in the big cities, to which they have never been, and from Trump himself comparing life there as being more dangerous than war-torn countries in the Middle East. And they get convinced that is really bad and OMG WHY AREN'T WE DOING ANYTHING????? They hear stories of all the black people killing each other and scamming them out of their hard earned dollars by having 13 kids and all the while the government gives them nothing. They watch the news regarding a terrorist attack on our soil, and having never interacted with a Muslim before in their lives, have no world view or point of reference that the people with the funny wraps on their heads don't want to just kill us all. The Mexicans are jumping fences and leaving a trail of rape and destruction in their wakes. And maybe it was my job to at least have a discussion with them and try to educate them - listen to their beliefs that have been mostly shaped from slanted media reports and try to offer a different perspective. And maybe I needed to do a better job explaining the them why I thought that a Trump presidency would be incredibly harmful to our republic. They may not have listened. But I think a common theme coming from this is that we need to stop viewing the other "side" as the enemy. I KNOW for a fact that my in-laws have no idea why people in this country would be this upset over the election results. They are probably watching the news right now thinking how ridiculous those cityfolk whiny crybabies are being. Maybe it was my job to help them understand that. 

I don't know. I'm rambling. But my mindset has been opposite of what Koya is expressing here. I am a bit angry. Maybe angry isn't the right word. I'm more disappointed. I'm disappointed in the collective us because we aren't as good as I thought we were. But I'm not really blaming any specific individuals. It's just more of this ethereal force out there that did something "bad". But I think what we all need to do is make sure we get through this Presidential term and fight to make sure that none of our deepest darkest fears don't come true about what could happen. We shouldn't be telling those close to us to go pound sand. Guess what? They are the same person you knew 9 days ago. Shunning them accomplishes exactly nothing and they aren't defined as a person by who they pulled the lever for last week. 

 
ilikedwight said:
What I don't like about your post is we are forced to accept your premise that Trump is x y and z just because you said it?

What if we don't agree with your statements that Trump is a racist or a bigot and believe the media manipulated stupid people into thinking he was?
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Then you are free to think Koya is an idiot. And you may choose to express said thought, or not, as you please. 

Oh, and other people are free to think their own thoughts about you and even President elect Trump.

They are free to articulate those thoughts too.

 
msommer said:
Then you are free to think Koya is an idiot. And you may choose to express said thought, or not, as you please. 

Oh, and other people are free to think their own thoughts about you and even President elect Trump.

They are free to articulate those thoughts too.
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Trump won though. I run the government now.

 
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