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brainee

Trade Luck and Hilton for A Brown? WHIR

Question

I'd be the one getting Brown (and I'm assuming either Carson Palmer or Colin Kaepernick as a throw in). Currently Mariota is my backup QB ... Russell Wilson and Tyrod Taylor are both on the waiver wire, and I'd drop the QB I get in the trade for either of them.

What do you think? Is it worth the downgrade from Luck to Mariota (or Wilson or Taylor) to go from Hilton to ABrown? I'm 8-2 and cruising to the playoffs. The other team is 5-5 and in a dog fight just to make the playoffs (and I just beat him, thanks mostly to my Mariota crushing his Palmer).

This is a 10-team, non-PPR, standard scoring (start QB, 2 RBs, 2 WRs, TE, R/W/T flex, and DST and K) and we can keep 2 players at the cost of the 1st rounds of the draft. So Brown could be a possible keeper for next year (which Luck or Hilton certainly wouldn't have been). This is my team:

QB: Luck, Mariota

RB: David Johnson, Latavius Murray, Booker, Gio Bernard, T Coleman, Prosise

WR: Beckham, Hilton, Jeffery, Crowder

TE: Kelce

DST: Cardinals

K: Haushka

His team is:

QB: Palmer, Kaepernick

RB: L Bell, Ingram, Sproles

WR: A Brown, Cooks, Sanders, Ty Williams, D Baldwin, Shepherd

TE: Ebron, Z Miller

DST: Chargers

K: McManus

Is there any other deal that you see there that is reasonable (for being accepted)? I want to strengthen my starting lineup ... not trade for depth. His biggest weakness seems to be starting QB, followed by RB depth. Is LMurray/Luck for Bell something that also seems reasonable? Better than a Luck/Hilton for ABrown deal?

Leave a link and I'll answer yours back. Thanks!

Edited by brainee

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The way Mariota has been playing, i'm not necessarily sure he's really a downgrade from Luck...and if so, not by much. I definitely make this trade. You'll be fine with Mariota and the increase from TY to AB should push you over the top

 

thanks for the help with mine

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I disagree with 4&inches.  While having the one-two punch of AB and OBJ would be enticing, I think that the downgrade from Luck to Mariota (or Palmer) is too significant. Moreover, Mariota's bye week is still to come (week 13) and he has Denver and @KC in weeks 14 & 15.  I would stand pat with Luck and go to your waiver wire for another WR to pick up in place of Jeffery to shore up your receiver corp,

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36 minutes ago, fightingillini said:

Given that you can get Tyrod or Wilson off the WW, that's an easy accept.  Why Russell Wilson is on the WW is a mystery to me, though.

This 100%.  The chance to get AB is easy accept and then add in that you pick up Wilson as your QB1 is just a bonus.  Make the trade now.   However, my guess is the guy with Brown won't accept and he probably just picks up Wilson.  That is what I would do if I was him.  I am assuming you are the one making the offer and not the other way around.

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1 hour ago, fightingillini said:

Given that you can get Tyrod or Wilson off the WW, that's an easy accept.  Why Russell Wilson is on the WW is a mystery to me, though.

Agree with this.  I would make the deal, but instead of one of his qb's try to see if he will throw in Zach Miller instead.  He wont use Miller and I think that there is a lot of upside with the chance he becomes the #1 option in Chicago.   The problem with getting Miller is that you will ony have Mariota though and wont have a backup QB unless you drop someone and that would probably be either Kelce or Miller...

As the cherry on top you will be able to keep Brown who will likely be a top 3 pick next year with a good shot at being the overall #1.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/751368-should-i-start-willie-snead-thurs-night/ (your thoughts would be appreciated!)

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7 hours ago, fightingillini said:

Given that you can get Tyrod or Wilson off the WW, that's an easy accept.  Why Russell Wilson is on the WW is a mystery to me, though.

Agree here too.  The Luck/Hilton combo is too volatile - one bad playoff week and you are toast.  Give me the safer combo.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/751419-pick-my-rb2-for-ppr-week-11-whir/

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On 11/17/2016 at 0:32 AM, 4th&inches said:

The way Mariota has been playing, i'm not necessarily sure he's really a downgrade from Luck...and if so, not by much. I definitely make this trade. You'll be fine with Mariota and the increase from TY to AB should push you over the top

 

thanks for the help with mine

I agree with this as well.  Having Mariota makes this an EZ accept for the best WR in the game.

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I'll get to any "helps in return" by Saturday. Thanks for all the input.

I offered the trade: my Luck and Hilton for his ABrown (with Kaep as a throw in to keep players balanced to keep it easy). And it was accepted this morning. I picked up Russell Wilson off the waiver wire to be ready (and not get scooped). But ...

... a couple of hours later I see that it was vetoed :rant::yucky::wall:

Emoticons and words cannot express how disgusted I am by this. There is absolutely no justification to veto this trade except to block two playoff contending teams from getting better. Sure I like my side ... that's why I offered the trade. But value-wise, I think it's 100% fair. A top 5 QB and a top 10 WR for a top 3 WR (and a WW QB). I truly believe the other guy improved his lineup because he upgrades from Palmer to Luck (maybe he just didn't trust Wilson ... the season has been awful until very recent). I think he gains more from going from Palmer to Luck than he loses from going to Hilton from Brown. Plus he is very deep at WR (also has Cooks, Em Sanders, Ty Williams, Baldwin, Shepherd).

This is a keeper league. I am not returning if this veto is upheld.

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3 minutes ago, brainee said:

I'll get to any "helps in return" by Saturday. Thanks for all the input.

I offered the trade: my Luck and Hilton for his ABrown (with Kaep as a throw in to keep players balanced to keep it easy). And it was accepted this morning. I picked up Russell Wilson off the waiver wire to be ready (and not get scooped). But ...

... a couple of hours later I see that it was vetoed :rant::yucky::wall:

Emoticons and words cannot express how disgusted I am by this. There is absolutely no justification to veto this trade except to block two playoff contending teams from getting better. Sure I like my side ... that's why I offered the trade. But value-wise, I think it's 100% fair. A top 5 QB and a top 10 WR for a top 3 WR (and a WW QB). I truly believe the other guy improved his lineup because he upgrades from Palmer to Luck (maybe he just didn't trust Wilson ... the season has been awful until very recent). I think he gains more from going from Palmer to Luck than he loses from going to Hilton from Brown. Plus he is very deep at WR (also has Cooks, Em Sanders, Ty Williams, Baldwin, Shepherd).

This is a keeper league. I am not returning if this veto is upheld.

wait, Luck and Hilton for Brown was vetoed?  Wow, that's complete BS.  It's generally a pretty fair deal, even though I would want the best player in the deal which is Brown.

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This is obvious that you are not colluding.  The only reason to EVER veto a trade is for obvious collusion.  Otherwise all trades should stand no matter how lopsided they seem.  I would fight this if I were you. 

 

Was it vetoed by Commish only or does your league vote on all trades?  If your league  votes on all trades I would try and get that abolished for the future.  League voting is never good because there is always an owner that votes no just because he isn't making the trade. 

 

If it was vetoed solely by the Commish then you deserve an explanation ASAP.  Then I would ask for the league as a whole to look at it and get the Commish's ruling overturned.  I know this seems contrary to my previous statement but this is a different situation and the rest of your league should see the obvious over stepping of powers. 


This sucks for you.

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2 hours ago, fightingillini said:

wait, Luck and Hilton for Brown was vetoed?  Wow, that's complete BS.  It's generally a pretty fair deal, even though I would want the best player in the deal which is Brown.

Yep. This is the 4th year I've been in this league. I'm co-managing with a friend I used to work with (the rest of the league are friends of his, or friends/family of those friends). He had never won a fantasy league (this is the only league he ever played in, starting a couple years before I starting co-managing). In the previous 3 years, we were always contenders but came up short. Last year was particularly tough because we were the #1 seed, top overall scorer, only to lose in the title game due to massive under performances from the line-up (we were projected to be huge favorites).

This year was looking really good at 8-2. This seemed like a move that could put us over the top and get my friend his first ever fantasy title. I put a lot of thought into lineup moves and trades, probably more than I should for a free friends-and-family league (that I'm only co-managing). And I put a lot of thought into getting this trade to happen: assessing our strengths and weaknesses, going through all the other rosters doing the same, thinking of trades that could improve both sides, negotiating the trade. This hasn't been a league with many trades ... previous times I'd make an offer only to get completely ignored.

I can't see how this trade can reasonably be seen to be vetoable. Only that other teams don't like seeing an 8-2 team improve to make a title run. There's probably one guy who vetoed out of sour grapes ... a couple of years ago, he was involved in the only FFB trade I ever voted to veto. But those circumstances were very different. The league was short a member (it was 12 teams then) and this one guy's friend was allowed into the league (even though no one else knew him). And this friend completely blew off the league: team was autodrafted and he never did anything with his lineup (leaving injured and bye week guys in the lineup). Out of the blue we see he comes back to make a trade: sending his top player (maybe it was Gronk that year?) to his friend for something like a kicker or a defense. Only time I saw a trade that actually falls under the qualifications for being vetoed.

Anyway, unless other managers or the commish step in I'm done with this league. It will really suck on a personal level, because co-managing this team was a great way for me to stay in contact with my friend :(

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2 minutes ago, brainee said:

Anyway, unless other managers or the commish step in I'm done with this league. It will really suck on a personal level, because co-managing this team was a great way for me to stay in contact with my friend :(

If it's a free league and it allows you to keep the friendship fresh I wouldn't bail because of the friendship.....unless I could talk my buddy into getting into a better league that doesn't do petty things like vetoing due to sour grapes.  

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7 hours ago, Gally said:

This is obvious that you are not colluding.  The only reason to EVER veto a trade is for obvious collusion.  Otherwise all trades should stand no matter how lopsided they seem.  I would fight this if I were you.

Was it vetoed by Commish only or does your league vote on all trades?  If your league  votes on all trades I would try and get that abolished for the future.  League voting is never good because there is always an owner that votes no just because he isn't making the trade.

If it was vetoed solely by the Commish then you deserve an explanation ASAP.  Then I would ask for the league as a whole to look at it and get the Commish's ruling overturned.  I know this seems contrary to my previous statement but this is a different situation and the rest of your league should see the obvious over stepping of powers.
This sucks for you.

Thanks. A message on the league forum was immediately posted. Also a private message was sent to the commish and I asked the guy I was trading with to post himself (he was set to be able to start Luck instead of Palmer at QB this Sunday, which could be a huge difference in points and could be the difference between winning or losing a must-win matchup for him).

It is league votes on trades. And you're right ... that's stupid and should be changed. I think that's how ESPN's default is and no one ever really bothered with it (since it just doesn't come up to be an issue since people hardly ever trade).

Coincidentally ESPN's Matthew Berry went on a rant this week in his "Love/Hate" column about what he thought of vetoes (and people who do them without legit reasons). Guess people in this league don't see things the same way.

Edited by brainee

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1 hour ago, themeistersinger said:

You should forward this article to your league mates

Love, hate and raging against the veto
http://www.espn.com/fantasy/football/story/_/page/TMRlovehate161117/fantasy-football-picks-sleepers-busts-trade-talk-week-11
 

As a matter of fact, I included the link in the league forum post. To which no one has replied.

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In 16 team or 2QB league this would have been a relatively fair trade, in a 10 team league you definitely getting way more value. (i,e, you can pickup Wilson/Taylor)

With that said, I think with the exception of crazy lopsided trades with inexperienced players (i.e. A.Smith+M.Sanu for L.Bell+L.Blount...) all trade should go through. However, most people who play fantasy football don't read forums like these, and don't understand this, so it's unfortunately not uncommon.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/751485-start-1-wr-whir/

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