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Millennials and Job Searching question (1 Viewer)

belljr

Footballguy
This is not a thread for bashing.  I am asking a question because I'm not sure if my son and his friends need the reality check or I do.

So my son is graduating college in June, he and his friends have started job searching and interviews. His roommate turned down a job in our area starting at 65K as a computer scientist because it was not enough money and not in the "field" he prefers (it was for a financial company and not say a network security)   He states his other roomate got a job at google making 100K and that is my he turned down the 65K.   I tried to explain cost of living in Silicon Valley $$ is not the same as living in PA $$, etc etc..  Not sure he got that.

My sons girlfriend turned down and internship through my sisters company, which my sister pulled some strings for because it didn't fit her career goals. She may have had another offer.

My son has gone on a few interviews and has stated what his starting salary wants are as a civil engineer but he doesn't want to work at one company because they don't have a certain aspect that he wants to do.

Now, I remember coming out of college and hitting a bunch of interviews and hoping for an offer.  But I was not that picky on exactly which offer and company I was working for.  Meaning I worked for a large bank as a developer, I didn't care that my software was for a bank, I just cared about software.

Is this the new normal now, are they in for a rude "awakening"?

Just overhearing some of their conversations, I'm surprised they aren't all excited to just have a job in their field to start. And some of the salary expectations seem really high to me but I will admit, I'm out of touch with that.

 
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Sorry, but your son and friends are entitled. They need a strong wake up call which would mean making them live on their own, pay their own bills, etc. Let them learn firsthand how $65k is better than months of $0 with bills to pay.

 
1. It sounds like your son and friends took the right path with earning advanced degrees and have the willingness to be mobile. Good move.

2. It also sounds like these kids haven't had to pay their own way on much, which may be distorting their perception of reality.

Hopefully they are relatively unencumbered by debt. A little "reality check" with setting up an example budget might not hurt.

 
Sorry, but your son and friends are entitled. They need a strong wake up call which would mean making them live on their own, pay their own bills, etc. Let them learn firsthand how $65k is better than months of $0 with bills to pay.
That's what I thought.  My son has worked the last 3 years doing coop.

He is responsible for his on room and board.  So it's not like he doesn't understand budgeting and the value of a dollar

 
They are graduating in June. It is December. Maybe they feel like they don't have to take the first offer they get as they have a little bit of time. Just make sure he knows that an offer he gets now is unlikely to be there in May. And maybe get him to set a January deadline for being in something. That doesn't mean he has to stop looking.

 
And to add. All of these kids have worked 18months out of the last 3 years.  It's how the school curriculum works.  So they all understand what working entails, etc

 
  He states his other roomate got a job at google making 100K and that is my he turned down the 65K.   I tried to explain cost of living in Silicon Valley $$ is not the same as living in PA $$, etc etc..  Not sure he got that.
I'm sure the value of experience/expected career trajectory is much better with Google in Silicon Valley than a financial services firm in PA.

Working in development at a large bank seems pretty miserable these days.

 
I'm sure the value of experience/expected career trajectory is much better with Google in Silicon Valley than a financial services firm in PA.

Working in development at a large bank seems pretty miserable these days.
I won't argue that.  My point was more along the lines of don't expect JobA just because you know someone else got one and you're "better".

 
I'm sure the value of experience/expected career trajectory is much better with Google in Silicon Valley than a financial services firm in PA.

Working in development at a large bank seems pretty miserable these days.
I would rather sell cashews on the street in Costa Rica. F that. That's one of those lives where you wake up with cancer at 70 and realize you did it wrong (actually had a guy who did and told me exactly that).

 
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Can't really blame them for seeking a job they really want.  The money part is less positive but it seems most people aren't willing to take a job just to have a job.  It's not just Millennials. 

I'm seeking a new career this spring and frankly I'm not planning to take just any job either. 

 
Given the timeline, it doesn't sound too terrible outside of the kid who turned down $65K because he knows someone who got $100K at Google. There's probably a very good reason that kid got the offer and he didn't. Just dumb logic. 

I'd make sure he realizes that he only has a couple more months to be selective. I think it's fine to try for as close to an optimal situation now, but as he gets to around February he needs to be willing to compromise on either salary or company, and possibly both. 

I'd also make sure he realizes how unlikely he is to be at any company for even 5 years out of school, so he should be focused on building his skills and getting into a situation where he'll be an attractive hire to that perfect company after a few years. You can also remind him that his definition of "perfect" is also likely to change once he either starts working in an unrelated area, or gets into the desired area and realizes it's not quite what he expected. 

Good luck to him. 

/2005 college grad

 
I would rather sell cashews on the street in Costa Rica. F that. That's one of those lives where you wake up with cancer at 70 and realize you did it wrong (actually had a guy who did and told me exactly that).
Is it much better to be at a network security company than financial services? Seems like similar work.

Being in IT/software development in banking has huge potential right now. God bless him if he has any sort of math background as well. 

 
Can't really blame them for seeking a job they really want.  The money part is less positive but it seems most people aren't willing to take a job just to have a job.  It's not just Millennials. 

I'm seeking a new career this spring and frankly I'm not planning to take just any job either. 
Are you still employed?     I totally understand jumping to somewhere or to something new with stricter "personal requirements" once you are in the work force and have more experience. 

Coming out of college it felt as if they were being too picky.

I'll fully admit I may be wrong but I've had 3 jobs in my 22 years and that's only because one of them we got sold.  So I'm not the best measuring stick

 
This sounds similar to my nephew's approach (SIL's son). He graduated from college in May and interned during the summer but the company ended up not having an open spot to hire him. 

He's turned down 3 offers so far because they're "not exactly what he wants". His mom isn't helping by encouraging him to wait. He's only had one internship and he's 22 years old - how does he know exactly what he wants? There's probably things he hasn't even been exposed to that he might really enjoy. 

As one poster said, when I came out of school I was looking for just about any job related to my field of study. The worst thing that could have happened is that I learned what I didn't like. It's also a lot easier to look for a job when you've got a paycheck coming in. 

 
It's also a lot easier to look for a job when you've got a paycheck coming in. 
I would definitely stress this. If he bailed on a job after 6 months for a better opportunity, his boss will probably give him #### for it and say it will look bad to have left so quickly, etc. Who cares. As long as he's not trying to go back there one day, no one will think twice about it. It's an easy explanation if it ever comes up with future employers. 

 
Is it much better to be at a network security company than financial services? Seems like similar work.

Being in IT/software development in banking has huge potential right now. God bless him if he has any sort of math background as well. 
Having worked for Citi, I would never work for a bank again.

 
When I graduated in 1998, people were batting town job offers left and right.  The job market for engineers was red-hot.  People were actually accepting a job offer from company 'A', kept interviewing for a better job, accepting an offer from 'B' and only then turning down A.  The Dean of our school was pretty pissed about the situation.

I think the market is hot again, especially for software guys.  If these guys think they can be picky, kudos to them.  If they are doing the type of work in demand in Silicon Valley, hell yeah I'd hold out for something better than working in a bank in PA.

They will have plenty of time to settle when they hit 35.  Let them be ambitious as hell at 23.

 
I would rather sell cashews on the street in Costa Rica. F that. That's one of those lives where you wake up with cancer at 70 and realize you did it wrong (actually had a guy who did and told me exactly that).
Which option is making you say that?  Not clear to me.

 
Besides the friend that turned down the 65k, I don't have a huge problem with your son or his gf. The other kid sounds out of touch. Very few people out of college are going to get 100k or work at a company of Google's standing. I don't know why he is even comparing himself to his friends. Life is not a competition.

 
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Lots of reasons to take or not take these jobs, but the biggest "reality check" needed is to stop comparing himself to others. Be happy for the other guy and worry about your own situation. 

Btw 65k in PA is fine imo

 
I'm going to say that the approach is likely determined by their fields of study and the industry right now.  I graduated with a financial background right smack during the recession (2009).  Many of my classmates struggled to find jobs, and some are still well "behind schedule" because of it.  I was happy to have a job upon graduation.

Another aspect to consider are the industry hiring practices.  For public accounting firms, recruiting is regularly now a year+ out from start date.  For the May 2017 graduating class, start date September 2017, we were recruiting in the summer of 2016 and had our hires by October 2016.  I realize this is a competitive field and that 12 months+ is not the norm for job candidates, however.  I think your son needs to consider whether the companies he wants to work for do their hiring by, say, the end of December or the middle of spring.  Because if his preferred landing spots are full or nearly-full right now, he needs to know the consequences of passing up on opportunities right now because they aren't exact 100% fits.

My wife (we are "old millennials" FWIW) couldn't land her preferred job right at graduation.  She worked for a company for 3 years, put herself through grad school at night, and landed the job she wanted at the company she wanted.  She worked her ### off for it, and she got it.  Your son may need to have his expectations tempered a little bit, possibly.  That's something only you would know though.

 
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When I graduated in 1998, people were batting town job offers left and right.  The job market for engineers was red-hot.  People were actually accepting a job offer from company 'A', kept interviewing for a better job, accepting an offer from 'B' and only then turning down A.  The Dean of our school was pretty pissed about the situation
I did this myself. Company A was an okay job, but I knew I was close on Company B in a different industry which I greatly preferred. Tried buying time from Company A. They eventually gave me a deadline, so I accepted it because I didn't want to risk ending up with nothing. Got my offer from Company B a week later and informed Company A I wouldn't be working there. Guy was pissed of course, but they filled the slot soon after. Whatever, you have to take care of yourself. 

 
Is it much better to be at a network security company than financial services? Seems like similar work.

Being in IT/software development in banking has huge potential right now. God bless him if he has any sort of math background as well. 
Short answer is yes...to be on a really upwardly mobile path in financial services IT you really need to be to a "quant" these days.  Regular old, college grad IT is sort of out the door or outsourced to India or Europe these days and frankly the working environments at a lot of the big banks aren't fantastic right now either.  Maybe it'll come back if regulations are cut by Trump, but if I was a college grad, I'd certainly rather start at a pure tech company these days over working in tech at a financial services company (my sig other is a higher up on the tech side in financial services).  

Quant = PhD in physics, computer science, or some other science related programming field at a prestigious university preferably MIT.

 
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Sorry I didn't me to hijack with their actual jobs.  But I guess it does differ.  

FTR

Son - civil and architectural engineer

GF - Finance

Roomat1&2 - Comp Science

 
Why not go for a job you really want?  You obviously can't sit around waiting forever to find the "perfect" job, but you don't need to accept the first offer that comes at you either.

 
Short answer is yes...to be on a really upwardly mobile path in financial services IT you really need to be to a "quant" these days.  Regular old, college grad IT is sort of out the door or outsourced to India or Europe these days and frankly the working environments at a lot of the big banks aren't fantastic right now either.  Maybe it'll come back if regulations are cut by Trump, but if I was a college grad, I'd certainly rather start at a pure tech company these days over working in tech at a financial services company (my sig other is a higher up on the tech side in financial services).  
100% spot on.  I'm higher up on the tech side in fin svc.... the morale is the pits.  Unless you're a superstar, you're looking over your shoulder on a monthly basis just waiting for the tap.

 
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Sorry I didn't me to hijack with their actual jobs.  But I guess it does differ.  

FTR

Son - civil and architectural engineer

GF - Finance

Roomat1&2 - Comp Science
I'd also say the life of many of my even 40 year old CS friends is sort of transitory.  Unless they are at teh Google, they are frequently switching jobs for the next hot thing (frequently is seemingly ever 2-4 years) and really just following their own path.  If they are a good CS, the skill is transitory throughout life.  

I'd also tell the GF to stay out of finance, but that's neither here or there.  She needs to find a job she can stomach for 2-4 years and go back to business school.  

 
Are you still employed?     I totally understand jumping to somewhere or to something new with stricter "personal requirements" once you are in the work force and have more experience. 

Coming out of college it felt as if they were being too picky.

I'll fully admit I may be wrong but I've had 3 jobs in my 22 years and that's only because one of them we got sold.  So I'm not the best measuring stick
True, 20 years of experience (and still employed, through April) is different than straight out of college.  But he also has 6 months in a field in demand, no need to jump at the first offer.

Why not go for a job you really want?  You obviously can't sit around waiting forever to find the "perfect" job, but you don't need to accept the first offer that comes at you either.
This.  

 
Its not 2008, and these kids don't have liberal arts degrees.  They will be fine if they want to be picky.

 
Contrary point of view:

Sounds like all three are on well on their way to successful careers. All three have selected potentially lucrative majors, have secured internships/work experience while in college, and have their finger on the pulse of their respective job markets. For those that play this game correctly (and it sounds like they have) Senior year of college is one of the few times in a person's career that one can afford to be picky about finding the right job. Fall semester is the time when all the college job offers come pouring in. Recruiters march onto campus looking to fill quotas and compete with other companies for the best and brightest - especially in the engineering and technical fields. If they've worked so hard to get to this point, I imagine they are also working with the school's Career Management Center and getting advise on things like pay scale, potential recruiters, etc.

You should be extremely proud that your son has set himself up for success. Maybe more importantly, you should take be thankful that he has surrounded himself with others who are doing the same - as that  will be the catalyst for many more successes for him in the future. 

 
I'm going to say that the approach is likely determined by their fields of study and the industry right now.  I graduated with a financial background right smack during the recession (2009).  Many of my classmates struggled to find jobs, and some are still well "behind schedule" because of it.  I was happy to have a job upon graduation.

Another aspect to consider are the industry hiring practices.  For public accounting firms, recruiting is regularly now a year+ out from start date.  For the May 2017 graduating class, start date September 2017, we were recruiting in the summer of 2016 and had our hires by October 2016.  I realize this is a competitive field and that 12 months+ is not the norm for job candidates, however.  I think your son needs to consider whether the companies he wants to work for do their hiring by, say, the end of December or the middle of spring.  Because if his preferred landing spots are full or nearly-full right now, he needs to know the consequences of passing up on opportunities right now because they aren't exact 100% fits.

My wife (we are "old millennials" FWIW) couldn't land her preferred job right at graduation.  She worked for a company for 3 years, put herself through grad school at night, and landed the job she wanted at the company she wanted.  She worked her ### off for it, and she got it.  Your son may need to have his expectations tempered a little bit, possibly.  That's something only you would know though.
2009 grad here, I feel their pain. Let's just say I wasn't well equipped for what I was getting into - had I known, I would have held out and tried to get a bit higher starting salary than I did, would be nice 7 years down the road. Parents didn't have the same ideas as me, and so I took one of the first jobs offered.

Well on the road to a career I enjoy, just a bit of a speedbump in the beginning that I'm still paying for. Hard to pay off the debt I have making what I did the first 4 years out of school.

 
Contrary point of view:

Sounds like all three are on well on their way to successful careers. All three have selected potentially lucrative majors, have secured internships/work experience while in college, and have their finger on the pulse of their respective job markets. For those that play this game correctly (and it sounds like they have) Senior year of college is one of the few times in a person's career that one can afford to be picky about finding the right job. Fall semester is the time when all the college job offers come pouring in. Recruiters march onto campus looking to fill quotas and compete with other companies for the best and brightest - especially in the engineering and technical fields. If they've worked so hard to get to this point, I imagine they are also working with the school's Career Management Center and getting advise on things like pay scale, potential recruiters, etc.

You should be extremely proud that your son has set himself up for success. Maybe more importantly, you should take be thankful that he has surrounded himself with others who are doing the same - as that  will be the catalyst for many more successes for him in the future. 
Thanks,  I know they all have "good heads" about things even though they are still "naive" of 23 year olds.  I just worry come June it's going to be ZERO jobs.  Yes they are all going through career center and job fairs.   

 
For the jobs they are turning down, how are they getting those offers? Did they interview for them, or are they just coming unsolicited in some way?

 
True, 20 years of experience (and still employed, through April) is different than straight out of college.  But he also has 6 months in a field in demand, no need to jump at the first offer.
Your situation is definitely different.  Aren't you on some sort of military retirement?  Pension benefits and safety net?  

 
Your situation is definitely different.  Aren't you on some sort of military retirement?  Pension benefits and safety net?  
Right, I don't mean to imply we're exactly the same.  But the fundamental point is these kids, and all people, should seek to do what they really want - not to accept the first thing that comes their way.  

The salary shouldn't be the reason for not taking a job if it's what makes the person happy (presuming a livable wage) but the op stated the job wasn't what his son was seeking.  Plus he has 6 months - and he might see his parents as a safety net.  

 
Obviously field dependent as well as location - in NYC my first real job was roughly $50k, smart/ambitious/talented in a NY or SF kinda market, that'll accelerate rapidly. 

Engineers at Google or FB can command an entry salary of 6 figures, but that is for the top end of the market, the very best entry level engineers will command that bc the company wants to bring you in and grow. 

Now, every engineer thinks they're the best, but a simple law of average will negate that theory. 

 
No problem with them wanting to take their time and not rush into a job. I feel safe in saying, we've all been in miserable jobs before and there isn't anything worse than being stuck somewhere for 8+ hours a day that you hate. If they don't graduate until June, they have plenty of time to keep searching for something they really want. When I graduated college back in 2008, I took the first job I could find. It wasn't what I wanted and didn't see myself staying there long-term. It sucked, but I needed something. Sure, it was nice getting a paycheck, but it sucked going to work and being bored out of my mind for 8hrs/day. If they have an idea of what they want to do, that's great.

 
Folks with STEM degrees should be picky.  First, the market is hot right now for the most part in STEM fields and second, I've seen plenty of folks take bad jobs out of college and pigeon-hole themselves career-wise.  I doubt they would listen to your advice even if they ask for it so let them figure things out for better or worse.  At the end of the day, if they want to :cstu:  all over a job offer they deem not worthy of them I say kudos.  Damn the man.

 
I suffered through 14 years of a career I wasn't suited for and didn't enjoy because I took the first job I was offered.  I ended up depressed and suicidal.

I think finding something in the field you enjoy is critical.  However, at 22, you really have no idea what is out there yet so I'd be willing to take a chance for $65K/yr if it was at least close to what I thought I wanted to do.

 
I usually tell young graduates to take the job at the largest company you can in the field you want to be in.  You'll have the structure you need and typically not enough rope to hang yourself professionally.  

Get the experience then parlay it in a growing company years later where you can demand much higher compensation and actually make a difference. 

Also, coming from a large business will look better on a resume if you end up changing your career path after a few years in the field.

Don't be too hung up on the salary right out of college (don't sell yourself short either).  Where you work in the first 5 years out of college is usually going to pay off much more than the initial salary. 

 

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