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Gore Hall of Fame or NOT? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Crystalsteam99
- Start date
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
I say they need to take 2 out for every one they put in. HOF is currently a disaster. Let's make it great again.spider321 said:I'd like to see a Hall of the TRULY Great.
Put the 50 best players of all-time in.
You wanna add someone? Great, but you gotta vote someone out.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
LT a pretty likely addition for 2017 class.Anarchy99 said:
Thomas Jones - that dude carried my team in 2009.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Interesting indeed, especially in light of the "compiler" debate. Out of those backs, which would most say is a HoF candidate?Anarchy99 said:
LT without a doubt, IMHO. James is on the cusp of the discussion with Gore -- I think he only entered the HoF discussion last year as a semi-finalist -- he has other stats that are impressive, such as his TD totals, and if not for his ACL setting him back I think he would have been the most dominant back of his era.
S-Jax? Had eight 1K+ seasons but never won a rushing title. Aside from pounding the rock over and over, not sure the credentials are there.
Dunn? Member of the 10K yard club, with 15K+ in total yards from scrimmage. But never considered a premier/elite back.
George? He's in the college HoF and racked up an ungodly amount of carries.One tough hombre in terms of durability. But above and beyond that?
Watters has an impressive total and was a pro-bowler just like all the rest above. I think he may arguably have more of a case with a SB ring, having scored three TDs in in SB 24. But I think there's people who remember him for the "For who? For what?" comment he gave when he was asked when he didn't lay out for a catch on his first game with the Eagles as much they do for that SB performance. On the field (and in locker room) behavior seems to count in HoF voting -- see Terrell Owens as an example -- so it's an uphill climb.
Don't get me wrong, I literally worship the guys mentioned here. It's just that racking up yards alone doesn't seem to be a qualifier for the hall -- there needs to be more tangibles and intangibles involved in this mysterious calculus.
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Ironman2131
Footballguy
That's not entirely accurate. Portis was two years ahead and was established by the time McGahee and Gore got to Miami. Davenport was a senior on that team but was well down the depth chart. Payton barely saw the field until all of those guys were gone. The only player Gore really jumped was McGahee, who came to Miami as a more highly touted player. And even with Gore breaking several long runs as a freshman, McGahee still had more carries that year and was a Heisman candidate the following year.Joe Summer said:
No matter how we look at it, a top three of Portis, McGahee, and Gore is pretty damn good. Just another reason why the 2001 Miami Hurricanes may have been the best college team ever (I'm biased, but it's certainly in the conversation).
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Ironman2131
Footballguy
BTW, I love Gore's story and longevity, but he doesn't belong in the Hall unless he does the same thing for another 5-6 years (or longer). At some point, playing so long at such a tough position has to count for something.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I hate Ohio state but love Eddie George. He's actually a decent comp to gore, but gore has had a better career.
spider321
Footballguy
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keep fighting the fight calbear. Csonka4life
Footballguy
Frank Gore is the Jim Thome of NFL running backs. He's very steady and has compiled solid seasons without injuries but he has never been viewed as a once in a generation player. Unlike baseball the NFL largely ignores milestones and totals or he would be a lock, but you would think if he rips off another 1K next year he should be a lock as he would be on the verge of 14K in rushing yards.
Love the idea, but I would also give them a handful of "free adds" each decade to account for the passage of time. when the NFL is 200 years old, I can accept it having twice as many "truly great" players as it had at 100, and not feel like anyone is being diminished by the additional members.spider321 said:I'd like to see a Hall of the TRULY Great.
Put the 50 best players of all-time in.
You wanna add someone? Great, but you gotta vote someone out.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
To emphasize the wow factor / dominance factor, here are the number of seasons by RB since 1970 with regard to Top 5 years in YFS or Top 5 years in combined TD scored. As others have expressed, it's the best years that players should be evaluated, as that is more valuable in determining HOF credentials. I don't expect many people would argue using ranking in the Top 5 as a good indicator. Here is the list of those that had 5 or more times ranked in the Top 5 in YFS and total TD. If a player ranked in the Top 5 in both categories in a particular season, that would count as 2.
Player, YFS, TD, Total (* = HOFer)
Emmitt Smith* 5 8 13
Walter Payton* 9 4 13
Adrian Peterson 5 7 12
Barry Sanders* 8 4 12
L Tomlinson 6 5 11
Eric Dickerson* 5 4 9
Marcus Allen* 3 6 9
Marshall Faulk* 5 4 9
Chuck Foreman 4 4 8
O.J. Simpson* 6 2 8
Ricky Watters 4 4 8
Thurman Thomas* 5 3 8
Arian Foster 3 4 7
Curtis Martin* 4 3 7
Marshawn Lynch 3 4 7
Shaun Alexander 2 5 7
Earl Campbell* 3 3 6
Edgerrin James 3 3 6
Priest Holmes 3 3 6
Terrell Davis 3 3 6
Billy Sims 3 2 5
Curt Warner 2 3 5
Eddie George 3 2 5
Jamaal Charles 3 2 5
L McCutcheon 3 2 5
LeSean McCoy 3 2 5
Neal Anderson 2 3 5
Ottis Anderson 4 1 5
Tiki Barber 4 1 5
Frank Gore had 1 season in the Top 5 in YFS and none in total TD. Not sure why Chuck Foreman and Rickey Watters never got more love.
Player, YFS, TD, Total (* = HOFer)
Emmitt Smith* 5 8 13
Walter Payton* 9 4 13
Adrian Peterson 5 7 12
Barry Sanders* 8 4 12
L Tomlinson 6 5 11
Eric Dickerson* 5 4 9
Marcus Allen* 3 6 9
Marshall Faulk* 5 4 9
Chuck Foreman 4 4 8
O.J. Simpson* 6 2 8
Ricky Watters 4 4 8
Thurman Thomas* 5 3 8
Arian Foster 3 4 7
Curtis Martin* 4 3 7
Marshawn Lynch 3 4 7
Shaun Alexander 2 5 7
Earl Campbell* 3 3 6
Edgerrin James 3 3 6
Priest Holmes 3 3 6
Terrell Davis 3 3 6
Billy Sims 3 2 5
Curt Warner 2 3 5
Eddie George 3 2 5
Jamaal Charles 3 2 5
L McCutcheon 3 2 5
LeSean McCoy 3 2 5
Neal Anderson 2 3 5
Ottis Anderson 4 1 5
Tiki Barber 4 1 5
Frank Gore had 1 season in the Top 5 in YFS and none in total TD. Not sure why Chuck Foreman and Rickey Watters never got more love.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
Josh the FunkDOC
Footballguy
Ricky Watters doesn't get more love because he played on losing teams and had a reputation as a giant A hole. Easier to paint him as part of the problem than a guy like Gore.
this thread got it right, but i'd like to make an aside and discuss the "too many people in the Hall" talking point:
i would argue that the HOF is overrepresented in the skill positions (which is why this argument is a thing), but actually underrepresented in terms of defense and the offensive line. the end result is a total amount of players that's more or less accurate, but somewhat badly skewed. think about it - can you name one HOFer on D/OL who was as obvious of a mistake as Bettis?
i actually think the bar is currently too high for those positions, but agree that it's clearly too low for the fantasy positions. frankly i'm not even sold on Big Ben as a HOFer and think Eli isn't close, but i've resigned myself to the fact that they're both getting in someday. i just believe strongly in era adjustments, and with today's game being so friendly to offenses we should be harsher on these guys.
this thread got it right, but i'd like to make an aside and discuss the "too many people in the Hall" talking point:
i would argue that the HOF is overrepresented in the skill positions (which is why this argument is a thing), but actually underrepresented in terms of defense and the offensive line. the end result is a total amount of players that's more or less accurate, but somewhat badly skewed. think about it - can you name one HOFer on D/OL who was as obvious of a mistake as Bettis?
i actually think the bar is currently too high for those positions, but agree that it's clearly too low for the fantasy positions. frankly i'm not even sold on Big Ben as a HOFer and think Eli isn't close, but i've resigned myself to the fact that they're both getting in someday. i just believe strongly in era adjustments, and with today's game being so friendly to offenses we should be harsher on these guys.
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Your point about his character may be valid but it's not quite accurate to say he played on bad teams. The Seahawk teams he finished his career with were pretty mediocre, but the 49er and Eagles teams he was on were mostly playoff teams with the '94 49er team being a Super Bowl champion.
achiappanza
Footballguy
I just wanted to comment as a longtime in-person Gore-watcher.
I was a Niners season ticket holder from the 1990 season until they left Candlestick. Like all of you, I would normally answer this question by looking at the stats. But being in the stadium gave me a different appreciation of him.
There were only two 49ers in all those years that made fans sit up and go, "Wait a minute, who's this?" One was Terrell Owens. I'll never forget the first time he ran up the sideline and he and the DB grabbed the ball at the same time. TO just ripped it from him and high-stepped the rest of the way. It may have even been an exhibition game. From then on he was on our radar.
The second was Frank Gore. Many of us expected nothing from him, but there was this breakout game where he just seemed to plow into the line and instead of going down after one, he'd wind up with 6+ yards. So it wasn't one particular play, but after he kept moving the chains seemingly unspectacularly, there was a definite buzz in the stands.
And it never went away. Frank became this guy that made something out seemingly nothing, finding the crack that most RB's can't see, and grinding for a handful of extra yards every time. Occasionally, even those crappy teams would actually make holes and he'd go rambling down the field. The thing that makes me bristle about the "stat compiler" label is that it sounds like someone who doesn't do anything special other than get the ball a lot. Frank did something special all the time; it just wasn't highlight reel stuff.
And then he became both a good receiver out of the backfield, and an excellent blocker. All the way up to the end of his Niner days we would marvel when he'd pass block and just plain put his guy on the ground. And he never complained or stopped playing hard, even when the teams and games sucked. Unlike guys like Ricky Watters or Wendell Tyler, we felt like we could always trust Frank to get the yards he needed, not get caught dancing in the backfield. He was the ultimate teammate who did what needed to be done and led however he could. Without a doubt, he was the top guy most Niner fans regret never got a ring. He's also the one guy we all truly wished well as he moved on.
I don't know if that makes a Hall of Fame case, really. He just reminds me more of Emmitt Smith than any "stat compiler" I remember. I would love it for Frank's sake if he got the HOF recognition.
I realize this sounds a lot like a Yankee fan asserting that Jeter was a really good shortstop, but I wanted to weigh in with a different perspective.
I was a Niners season ticket holder from the 1990 season until they left Candlestick. Like all of you, I would normally answer this question by looking at the stats. But being in the stadium gave me a different appreciation of him.
There were only two 49ers in all those years that made fans sit up and go, "Wait a minute, who's this?" One was Terrell Owens. I'll never forget the first time he ran up the sideline and he and the DB grabbed the ball at the same time. TO just ripped it from him and high-stepped the rest of the way. It may have even been an exhibition game. From then on he was on our radar.
The second was Frank Gore. Many of us expected nothing from him, but there was this breakout game where he just seemed to plow into the line and instead of going down after one, he'd wind up with 6+ yards. So it wasn't one particular play, but after he kept moving the chains seemingly unspectacularly, there was a definite buzz in the stands.
And it never went away. Frank became this guy that made something out seemingly nothing, finding the crack that most RB's can't see, and grinding for a handful of extra yards every time. Occasionally, even those crappy teams would actually make holes and he'd go rambling down the field. The thing that makes me bristle about the "stat compiler" label is that it sounds like someone who doesn't do anything special other than get the ball a lot. Frank did something special all the time; it just wasn't highlight reel stuff.
And then he became both a good receiver out of the backfield, and an excellent blocker. All the way up to the end of his Niner days we would marvel when he'd pass block and just plain put his guy on the ground. And he never complained or stopped playing hard, even when the teams and games sucked. Unlike guys like Ricky Watters or Wendell Tyler, we felt like we could always trust Frank to get the yards he needed, not get caught dancing in the backfield. He was the ultimate teammate who did what needed to be done and led however he could. Without a doubt, he was the top guy most Niner fans regret never got a ring. He's also the one guy we all truly wished well as he moved on.
I don't know if that makes a Hall of Fame case, really. He just reminds me more of Emmitt Smith than any "stat compiler" I remember. I would love it for Frank's sake if he got the HOF recognition.
I realize this sounds a lot like a Yankee fan asserting that Jeter was a really good shortstop, but I wanted to weigh in with a different perspective.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Every single game. I totally agree.
As a fellow fan and watcher of those games, I concur entirely with this entire post.
I don't think it's fair to label him a compiler either, because he performed at an elite level, often on sub-par teams.
And he had a "bring your lunchbox to work" attitude - his teams could be good, great, bad or total
and Frank Gore plowed on, 3-4-5-6 yards at a time. Soft hands out of the backfield, had a great combination of power, speed and wiggle - he was a superb running back, and while yes he did play a lot of games and accrued stats, he did so with great ability often turning nothing into something. He was a head-down chain mover. I referenced Tim Brown previously - if Gore is a compiler, so's Brown (who does have a yellow jacket).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
One impressive think about Gore is how he did running the ball compared to his teammates.
In SFO, he averaged 4.53 ypc in his time there, while all other RBs over the same time frame averaged 3.75.
In IND, he has averaged 3.75 ypc, while all other RBs have averaged 2.95 ypc.
That's. 0.8 yards better on both teams, which is far from chump change. Certainly Gore can't be blamed for mediocre teams or so so blocking, but when you really have to start digging to find really eye popping things, that's probably not a great thing for HOF credentialing purposes.
In SFO, he averaged 4.53 ypc in his time there, while all other RBs over the same time frame averaged 3.75.
In IND, he has averaged 3.75 ypc, while all other RBs have averaged 2.95 ypc.
That's. 0.8 yards better on both teams, which is far from chump change. Certainly Gore can't be blamed for mediocre teams or so so blocking, but when you really have to start digging to find really eye popping things, that's probably not a great thing for HOF credentialing purposes.
Hooper31
Footballguy
He might have been a giant A hole, but I never saw a player work harder in practice. He set the tone each day at practice like no other player I've seen. A coach's dream when it came to the "practice like you want to play" motto.
Chuck still isn't...this post triggered a flurry of Watters discusion, but not one mention of Foreman.
I reckon a lot of posters are going "who?" and moving on.
Fariq
Footballguy
Foreman would probably be in the PFHOF if he had two more good years. One more good year and he would garner serious thought among the voters. As it stood and stands he never gets mentioned. He could get in as a senior candidate any year. I never hear him get mentioned, though.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Chuck was inducted into the Hall of Very Good. I was surprised to learn that there has been an official HOVG for years.
http://www.profootballresearchers.org/hall-of-very-good.htm
Foreman was a force for 6 years and then fell off a cliff. I agree that if he hung on for a couple more mediocre seasons he would be a better candidate. Never quite understood why being a below average player for several years actually increases a player's HOF resume. But that is clearly how things work.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
achiappanza
Footballguy
The other guy's Chuck Foreman and the rest of the Vikings used to beat me mercilessly at electric football.
Ironman2131
Footballguy
The thing I always noticed about Gore, back to his University of Miami days, is that he has a knack for falling forward to finish off a lot of runs. Where most guys gain two or three yards and then get stuffed, Gore would gain those same two or three yards and then find a small crease to lean forward for another yard or two. Hard to notice unless you watch a player a lot, but look out for it with Gore and you'll notice stuff like that repeatedly.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Would have thought no before bettis got in. Putting in an average compiler like bettis opened up the floodgates. The Hof rewards above average guys who hang around a long time now.
Sad but true.
Sad but true.
Josh the FunkDOC
Footballguy
good call, thank you for this.
i only remembered the Seahawks years with him, but seems even they weren't as bad as i thought.
CalBear
Footballguy
[undeserving person is in the Hall] => [other undeserving person should be put in the Hall] is a fallacious argument.
And, Bettis has something that Frank Gore doesn't (aside from two All-Pro awards). He was famous.
Note that it's not the Hall of Very Good, and it's not even the Hall of Excellent, it's the Hall of Fame. Bettis was probably the most visible RB of his generation outside of Emmitt and Barry. Gore isn't close.
Tau837
Footballguy
Bettis had a stronger resume, and it isn't close:
Bettis
1993 NFL AP Offensive Rookie of the Year
1996 NFL AP Comeback Player of the Year
2001 NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year
2 1st team All Pro selections, 1 second team All Pro selection
6 Pro Bowl selections
#6 all time rushing yards
#11 all time rushing TDs
1 championship
Gore
0 major awards
1 second team All Pro selection
5 Pro Bowl selections
#8 all time rushing yards
#24 all time rushing TDs
0 championships
Plus, Bettis played his entire career for a historically popular franchise on the East Coast, and he was very popular with the media. That stuff also helps.
And with all that, Bettis was arguably a borderline case.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Bettis was not average in any way. He was automatic inside the 5.
Not gonna argue whether he was deserving of HOF or not but he most certainly wasn't "average".
did you see him play or are you just looking at stats? Or do you hate the steelers?
I've never heard any who saw the Bus play call him "average".
I love Frank Gore. I try to get him on my fantasy teams every year (he helped me win my first of three championships). I hear what everyone is saying, and you are all probably right; but, when coaches want their players to watch film of someone who plays the position the way it should be played - they show them film of Gore. The ultimate professional. I like guys to be rewarded for that.
And one last thought, I wouldn't count him out on making it. He's beaten the odds and naysayers every time, including this year when people said he's too old. ####ty OL and the guy still produces.
And one last thought, I wouldn't count him out on making it. He's beaten the odds and naysayers every time, including this year when people said he's too old. ####ty OL and the guy still produces.
achiappanza
Footballguy
Imagine an actual Hall of Fame debate based entirely on arguments about fame.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
3 year old bump, now that Gore is the #3 all time leading rusher in history.
he still doesn't pass "the eye test" to me, but his numbers and longevity are pretty hard to argue against.
he still doesn't pass "the eye test" to me, but his numbers and longevity are pretty hard to argue against.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Good back. The only thing great about him has been his longevity, his durability. Noteworthy to be sure, but HOF?
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Everybody seems to think so. He was the fastest to 40k yards which people seem to think matters.
One of the worst 49er decisions ever was not resigning Watters. Besides being a perfect RB for that offense, he was a fiery, emotional leader on the field. The drop from Watters to Derek Loville was huge to that offense.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Of the top 16 NFL rushing leaders of all time who have retired, only Edgerrin James isn't in the HOF. Gore and Peterson are top 10 and remain active. Is Peterson a lock?
5 Probowls is noteworthy, in addition to longevity at RB. He played for some bad teams, the 2018 Dolphins, the Colts before the oline became good, the bad 49er teams. Put him on the Emmit Smith Cowboy teams and he's a show-in. Smith was a career 4.3 ypc, only once above 4.7. Gore is a career 4.3, with 3 years above 4.7, and a 4.6 last year with Miami at age 35.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
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