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Just now, The Z Machine said:

I haven't asked honestly. The family talks about safety, food, water and how they can charge their phones, but about regime change right now.

Those are the most important things it seems by far now.

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There was even talk about how to get him across the border into Colombia if it comes to that.

I can't believe he decided to go back...

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3 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

True, but at some point people will grow even more desperate and then regime change will be inevitable if they feel like thats the only way they'll survive.

Unfortunately I am ignorant to why there this a blackout.  Care to sum things up for me.  I saw a video of people shopping in Caracas a week ago in a grocery store filled with food, streamed that day, with many people shopping.  Unfortunately that is all I have recently.  TIA.

Edited by IC FBGCav

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29 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Good question. Everyone is the blaming the other side. 

The situation in Caracas is different than in the rest of the country. While my wife ha has cousins in Caracas, her father lives in Maracaibo.  Even in these terrible times, if you had access to dollars in Caracas you could buy food and live ok. In other parts of the country, it wasn't so easy.

While I don't know the root cause of the blackout, it's likely due to poor maintenance and investment in the infrastructure. Venezuela gets most of its electricity from hydro power, and the turbines that beverage the electricity have become more and more unreliable. The government can't afford replacement parts and the experts that know the equipment have likely fled the country like many with transferable skills and means to leave.

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2 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

The situation in Caracas is different than in the rest of the country. While my wife ha has cousins in Caracas, her father lives in Maracaibo.  Even in these terrible times, if you had access to dollars in Caracas you could buy food and live ok. In other parts of the country, it wasn't so easy.

While I don't know the root cause of the blackout, it's likely due to poor maintenance and investment in the infrastructure. Venezuela gets most of its electricity from hydro power, and the turbines that beverage the electricity have become more and more unreliable. The government can't afford replacement parts and the experts that know the equipment have likely fled the country like many with transferable skills and means to leave.

Wow, incredible amount of information here.  Didn't know the workers bailed on the country.  Brutal.

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49 minutes ago, IC FBGCav said:

Wow, incredible amount of information here.  Didn't know the workers bailed on the country.  Brutal.

When your pay is worth 1/2 of what is was at the end of each week there should be no surprise highly skilled workers are finding other places to be.  Somewhat related - I was in Inverness a couple years ago and learned that there is a pretty big enclave of Venezuelans there - highly skilled oilfield workers.  I wouldn't be surprised that was true in a lot of other oil patches.

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19 minutes ago, Sand said:

When your pay is worth 1/2 of what is was at the end of each week there should be no surprise highly skilled workers are finding other places to be.  Somewhat related - I was in Inverness a couple years ago and learned that there is a pretty big enclave of Venezuelans there - highly skilled oilfield workers.  I wouldn't be surprised that was true in a lot of other oil patches.

While many workers may be skilled, it can't be easy to just pick up your whole family and leave.  We know those workers won't be coming here, so is there other big oil in the area?

Edited by IC FBGCav

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19 minutes ago, Sand said:

When your pay is worth 1/2 of what is was at the end of each week there should be no surprise highly skilled workers are finding other places to be.  Somewhat related - I was in Inverness a couple years ago and learned that there is a pretty big enclave of Venezuelans there - highly skilled oilfield workers.  I wouldn't be surprised that was true in a lot of other oil patches.

A few years ago, Venezuelans in the US had the highest income and education levels per capita of any Latin American immigrant group, and it wasn't close. It was a middle income country in the 80s.

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5 minutes ago, IC FBGCav said:

While many workers may be skilled, it can't be easy to just pick up your whole family and leave.  We know those workers won't be coming here, so is there other big oil in the area?

Mexico is a big exporter.

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Just now, Sand said:

Mexico is a big exporter.

Doesn't seem many open slots there since they are all trying to get in here.

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Aaron Maté @aaronjmate

Last month, US & Venezuelan coup plotters made false claims, amplified by US media, that Maduro gov't forces burnt aid. 

@MaxBlumenthal & other independent journos immediately pushed back. 

Two weeks later, NYT follows suit.

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49 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Aaron Maté @aaronjmate

Last month, US & Venezuelan coup plotters made false claims, amplified by US media, that Maduro gov't forces burnt aid. 

@MaxBlumenthal & other independent journos immediately pushed back. 

Two weeks later, NYT follows suit.

Quote

 

Unpublished footage obtained by The New York Times and previously released tapes — including footage released by the Colombian government, which has blamed Mr. Maduro for the fire — allowed for a reconstruction of the incident. It suggests that a Molotov cocktail thrown by an antigovernment protester was the most likely trigger for the blaze.

At one point, a homemade bomb made from a bottle is hurled toward the police, who were blocking a bridge connecting Colombia and Venezuela to prevent the aid trucks from getting through.

But the rag used to light the Molotov cocktail separates from the bottle, flying toward the aid truck instead.

Half a minute later, that truck is in flames.

The same protester can be seen 20 minutes earlier, in a different video, hitting another truck with a Molotov cocktail, without setting it on fire.

...Many of Mr. Maduro’s critics claim that he ordered medication set on fire during the border standoff — even though many of his people have died of medicine shortages in hospitals.

Yet the claim about a shipment of medicine, too, appears to be unsubstantiated, according to videos and interviews.

The United States Agency for International Development, the principal supplier of the aid at the bridge, did not list medicine among its donations. A top opposition official on the bridge that day told The New York Times that the burned shipment contained medical supplies like face masks and gloves, but not medicine. And video clips reviewed by The Times show some of the boxes contained hygiene kits, which the Americans identified as containing supplies like soap and toothpaste.

...

The aid shipment created a showdown unlike any on the border between Colombia and Venezuela in years.

On Feb. 23, Venezuela’s opposition planned to pierce a military blockade by Mr. Maduro, hoping that the president’s security forces would break with him rather than stop much-needed aid. They argued that a cascade of defections in the military would follow, eventually toppling the government.

Instead, Mr. Maduro’s security forces, along with government-aligned gangs, attacked protesters, who came armed with rocks and Molotov cocktails. One of the aid trucks burned in the melee, igniting the bitter war of words over who was responsible.

Mr. Maduro’s government has also made unsubstantiated claims, starting with its longstanding insistence that there are no food shortages in Venezuela.

It also claimed that the aid shipment contained expired supplies or American weapons....

 

- NYT

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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Quote

 

On the Santander bridge this February 23, the guarimberos rained down a hail of rocks and molotov cocktails on Venezuelan national guardsmen holding the line against the USAID trucks. Suddenly, the trucks caught fire and the masked youth began unloading boxes of aid before they burned. Within minutes, pro-opposition media reported that the Venezuelan national guard forces were responsible for the fires.

A reporter for the private anti-government channel NTN24 claimed without evidence that the Venezuelan security forces had caused the fires with tear gas...

 

- Blumenthal.

-This gets a little Benghaziish, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean it in the sense it was confusing on the ground in real time. Sounds like the protesters were hurling molotovs and rocks at the VZ guard force, and the guard force was by the trucks, and they hit the trucks.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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Only in America!  :lmao:

 

Quote

 

Marco Rubio‏Verified account @marcorubio

Today another transformer explosion at the German Dam in Bolivar State caused another massive blackout. The result? Critically ill patients have died, the #Caracas metro remains out of service & few if any flights have arrived at or departed from Caracas in over 20 hours.

 

 

Quote

 

Germán Dam‏Verified account @GEDV86

Germán Dam Retweeted Marco Rubio

Senator @marcorubio, an important transformer exploded in Bolívar and that, in part, again collapsed the Venezuelan Electric System; however it was not in a dam, much less german. My name is Germán Dam, I am one of the journalists who published the information.

 

 

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That's actually petty funny.

My father in law has been working to get small generators set up in the hospital so that his patients can get dialysis.

He actually thinks the number of deaths reported is too high, suspects it's like 100 country wide.

However, he thinks that the outage might last "weeks" in Maracaibo. Without electricity they can't run pumps to move gasoline. Without gasoline they cannot even use small generators. And as I said before unless you have access to hard currency, you're not buying anything.  I can't imagine going weeks like that. Horrific.

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Today was mission Sunday at our church and we had a Venezuelan missionary talk about how horrific things were.  I can't imagine living in such an environment.

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I looked at cnn and foxnews and neither had anything on this.  Ridiculous.

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25 minutes ago, rascal said:

I looked at cnn and foxnews and neither had anything on this.  Ridiculous.

A true humanitarian crisis. Check out Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics/nerves-fray-tempers-flare-as-venezuela-blackout-hits-fourth-day-idUSKBN1QR0M8

  • Authorities have managed to provide only patchy access to power since the outage began on Thursday in what President Nicolas Maduro called an act of U.S.-backed sabotage, but critics insist it is the result of incompetence and corruption.
  • “The food we had in our refrigerators has spoiled, businesses are closed, there’s no communication, not even by cell phone,” Ana Cerrato, 49, a merchant, standing in front of a pile of razor wire and debris.
  • Families stood under the sun to buy potable water, which is unavailable for most residents whose homes do not have power.
  • State oil company PDVSA said on Sunday that fuel supplies were guaranteed. But only around 100 of the country’s 1,800 service stations were operating due to the blackout, according to gas station industry sources.
  • Merchants unable to keep refrigerators working began giving away cheese, vegetables and meat to clients.
  • One supermarket in southeastern Caracas was looted on Sunday evening, triggering a shootout with police and National Guard troops, according to Reuters witnesses and an employee who was present. The looters took food including pasta, rice and tomato sauce.
  • At Venezuelan hospitals, the blackout combined with the absence or poor performance of backup generators led to the death of 17 patients across the country, non-governmental organization Doctors for Health said on Saturday.
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Footage Contradicts U.S. Claim That Maduro Burned Aid Convoy - The New York Times. It appears to have been an accident caused by the opposition's Molotov cocktail. Maduro is a bad guy, no need to enhance the narrative.

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1 hour ago, SoBeDad said:

Footage Contradicts U.S. Claim That Maduro Burned Aid Convoy - The New York Times. It appears to have been an accident caused by the opposition's Molotov cocktail. Maduro is a bad guy, no need to enhance the narrative.

Agreed.

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15 hours ago, SoBeDad said:
  • At Venezuelan hospitals, the blackout combined with the absence or poor performance of backup generators led to the death of 17 patients across the country, non-governmental organization Doctors for Health said on Saturday.

Surprised it isn't way more.  Mind boggling the damage Chavez/Maduro has inflicted on this country.

On top of all this the claims against the country keep mounting - a new 8B ruling against it by Conoco due to the nationalization of its assets.

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Anyway, if you care about the Venezuelan people, this Saturday

@answercoalition

is leading a protest against the coup and sanctions in DC. 92% of Venezuelans are not in favor of military invasion and 86.5% rejected US sanctions.

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9 hours ago, Bucky86 said:

https://twitter.com/joshnbcnews/status/1105315967721189378?s=21

Pompeo announces US pulling out all diplomats from #Venezuela

 

Godspeed

They were a "constraint" on US policy? Not a good development. The benign version of this is that previously if there was dissolution of the government the Chavistas could try to entrap our diplomats. At best (using that word loosely) that means that the US sees things getting worse domestically. At worst it means the US wants them out the way in case there is military action. Either way our diplomats are out of there.

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15 hours ago, Franknbeans said:

Anyway, if you care about the Venezuelan people, this Saturday

@answercoalition

is leading a protest against the coup and sanctions in DC. 92% of Venezuelans are not in favor of military invasion and 86.5% rejected US sanctions.

Supporting Maduro means caring about Venezuelans? 

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41 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

Supporting Maduro means caring about Venezuelans? 

He's a Venezuelan, isn't he???

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FYI, some power restored to Maracaibo.  My FIL (and his hospital) has access to clean water and electricity (at least for a few hours).

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3 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

He's a Venezuelan, isn't he???

Holy hell that twitter account is bonkers.

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Do people really think Trump/Bolton would have picked Guaido if he didn’t suit their wicked agenda?  Like, how have smart people convinced themselves that Maduro (who, granted, probably sucks) could possibly be worse than the direction John Bolton wants to take Venezuela?  This is textbook neocon regime change in slow motion, and the media is asleep at the wheel.  

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13 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Do people really think Trump/Bolton would have picked Guaido if he didn’t suit their wicked agenda?  Like, how have smart people convinced themselves that Maduro (who, granted, probably sucks) could possibly be worse than the direction John Bolton wants to take Venezuela?  This is textbook neocon regime change in slow motion, and the media is asleep at the wheel.  

It’s a rotating presidency for the Assembly. The party is Popular Will Iirc. Trump & Pals had no control over that.

It is true that Trump & Bolton are pernicious, but it is funny seeing Bolton & Pompeo doing backflips on NK & Syria. I’ve obviously been critical of Trump on NK. And my sense is the net result of Trump’s bellicosity on VZ has been the arrival of Russian bombers and para-troops in South America. My feeling is that he’s made a dangerous situation more dangerous in both NK & VZ. But I think you’ve felt it’s been a positive in NK. How do you comport your POV of that approach in NK with this one?

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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13 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

They were a "constraint" on US policy? Not a good development. The benign version of this is that previously if there was dissolution of the government the Chavistas could try to entrap our diplomats. At best (using that word loosely) that means that the US sees things getting worse domestically. At worst it means the US wants them out the way in case there is military action. Either way our diplomats are out of there.

No, that's not good.  I don't think military intervention would go well here at home.  Let's face it, Venezuela is already destroyed to the tune of the worst collapse in the last couple centuries.  It may be that the admin is just holding cards that they would never play with respect to intervention - the US can be much more effective helping pick up the pieces when this things finally rolls over.

 

2 hours ago, ren hoek said:

Do people really think Trump/Bolton would have picked Guaido if he didn’t suit their wicked agenda?  

Wicked?  If Guaido takes over and makes overtures to return nationalized assets I bet we'd see a veritable flood of investment in the place.  That country is ripe for a monumental turnaround; it just needs a spark.  

It's hard to think about how many people Maduro has allowed to die to hold power.  Sickening.

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4 hours ago, Sand said:

It's hard to think about how many people Maduro has allowed to die to hold power.  Sickening.

Some people on these boards don't seem to mind too much. Sad

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13 hours ago, msommer said:
18 hours ago, Sand said:

It's hard to think about how many people Maduro has allowed to die to hold power.  Sickening.

Some people on these boards don't seem to mind too much. Sad

They just blame the imaginary US coup on it.

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4 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

That is very much what it's like. Don't listen to propaganda and idiots like that fool Dore claiming that this was the work of Americans wanting regime change.

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3 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

That is very much what it's like. Don't listen to propaganda and idiots like that fool Dore claiming that this was the work of Americans wanting regime change.

I get that the poverty and violence was already turrible, but 6 days without power would have a lot of the world on the edge of terror.  Not a comment to lessen the trouble there, just a broader thought about how tenuous life is...

Edited by Slapdash

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11 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

That is very much what it's like. Don't listen to propaganda and idiots like that fool Dore claiming that this was the work of Americans wanting regime change.

Has Musk offered to help?

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“They keep saying ‘all the options are on the table,’ but they refuse to articulate them. That’s kind of weird, and we’re left to speculate,” Armstrong said.

One such speculation is that the administration will try to create a “humanitarian corridor” that would let U.S. troops enter a small area of Venezuela, possibly along the border with Columbia.

“The publicly stated purpose of that would be to rescue people and facilitate the delivery of humanitarian supplies. The real purpose of that, however, would be to intimidate and provoke [a coup]," Armstrong said.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/03/15/there-are-mounting-signs-of-military-planning-for-venezuela/

President Donald Trump has been talking about ordering a military operation targeting Venezuela since 2017.

At first, that was widely dismissed as a rash threat, but the idea of a U.S. effort to force“regime change” in the oil-rich South American country may be gaining momentum in Washington.

“It’s a regime that, frankly, could be toppled very quickly by the military if the military decides to do that,” Trump said in September.

In January, National Security Adviser John Bolton flashed a notebook that read “5,000 troops to Colombia."

And on Monday, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo ordered all U.S. diplomats to leave Venezuela, saying their presence there “has become a constraint on U.S. policy,” hinting at opening potential military options.

Speculation about a military assault on Venezuela was also fueled by Trump’s recent appointment of a former George W. Bush administration official who was an architect of the Iraq War, Elliot Abrams, to be the new “Special Representative for Venezuela.”

Heightened concerns prompted the Democratic-led House Foreign Affairs Committee to meet Wednesday to debate a bill that would prohibit Trump from taking military action in Venezuela without congressional approval.

White House officials say “all options on the table,” including a military intervention or military support of allies in the region.

Supporters point to the short, successful 1989 invasion of Panama.

But critics say that’s a bad analogy and caution that such a move could result in something resembling the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, in which anti-U.S. factions faced protracted insurgencies.

An invasion of Venezuela would require between 100,000 and 150,000 U.S. troops, who would face as many as 356,000 Venezuelan troops in a country twice the size of Iraq, said Rebecca Chavez, senior fellow at the Inter-American Dialogue, during testimony at the House hearing.

“It would be prolonged, it would be ugly, there would be massive casualties,” Chavez said.

That nightmare scenario may be farfetched.

Many experts believe the White House’s hawkish statements are not a sign of an imminent military attack but instead a signal to the Venezuelan opposition that the U.S. would support an internal coup.

“They’re not trying to provoke a war," according to Fulton T. Armstrong, a former CIA analyst with significant Latin American experience.

“They’re trying to provoke the Venezuelan military to rise up and overthrow Maduro,” he said.

There appears to be very few advocates for military action outside the White House and many experts believe it is highly unlikely that the Trump administration would follow through on its seemingly threatening rhetoric.

“It would be completely counter-productive,” said Larry Korb, a former Pentagon official who is now at the Center for American Progress.

“This is a no-win situation if you go in. The damage would be much worse than any gains we might get.”

Nevertheless, the crisis is deteriorating rapidly. Refugees and defecting military troops are flowing into Colombia. Maduro recently blamed a massive electricity blackout across the capital city of Caracas on a U.S. cyber attack.

White House officials say the recent election of Maduro was a sham, fraught with corruption, and renders him an illegitimate leader.

Maduro and his allies in the government and military have plundered the nation’s cash from its vast oil reserves, watching its population starve and flee by the millions.

The U.S. has imposed economic sanctions against banks, canceled visas for Venezuelan government officials and taken other economic or political measures to pressure Maduro to exit.

Should Venezuela descend further into chaos, the White House could call upon traditional military operations, like targeted strikes, covert actions and fires, logistical and humanitarian support by U.S. troops in Colombia, Panama or in ships offshore.

“Desperate civilians always turn to the military, and say ‘solve my problems,’” Armstrong said. “And the military often doesn’t push back.”

While Maduro often talks about “a war of all the people," involving mass resistance, a protracted war would be unlikely, said Armstrong, who is now a senior fellow at American University’s Center for Latin American and Latino Studies.

Armstrong added that an American invasion would certainly face snipers and bomb-makers, and it would be costly. But local Venezuelan groups like the colectivos — various gangs, some of which support Maduro — are mainly thugs who wouldn’t stand in the streets against the U.S.

Maduro is likely not the “key symbol that would unify people to resist U.S. military action and lead to a sustained insurgency,” Armstrong said.

“But the U.S. has selected in Juan Guaidó and others, people who have sworn to reverse ‘Chavismo,’” Armstrong said, referencing the poorly defined ideology of the deceased Hugo Chavez, which has at least on paper given the poor a voice.

“[It] may be a perverted voice, but they do have a voice," Armstrong added. Some in Venezuela may fight to retain that.

So far, neither the White House nor the Pentagon has signaled what approach the U.S. might take to end the crisis.

“They keep saying ‘all the options are on the table,’ but they refuse to articulate them. That’s kind of weird, and we’re left to speculate,” Armstrong said.

‘All options’

One such speculation is that the administration will try to create a “humanitarian corridor” that would let U.S. troops enter a small area of Venezuela, possibly along the border with Columbia.

“The publicly stated purpose of that would be to rescue people and facilitate the delivery of humanitarian supplies. The real purpose of that, however, would be to intimidate and provoke [a coup]," Armstrong said.

Another option could be a surgical strike on the presidential palace.

“But still, to achieve that you would have to provoke Maduro into doing something that you could say threatened U.S. interests,” Armstrong said. “The problem with U.S. military intervention in all of this is that none of this matters at all to U.S. national security."

Among the other options would be covert tools or special operations missions that have been used before, and in particular by the current special envoy to Venezuela, Elliot Abrams.

The London Observer reported in 2002 that Abrams “gave a nod to” a failed Venezuelan coup attempt against Hugo Chávez that same year.

In August 2018, two drones allegedly carrying explosives detonated prematurely near a stage in Caracas where Maduro was giving a speech. Maduro’s regime alleged that it was the result of foreign meddling, while others have suggested it was a false flag operation.

“That sort of stuff, with the imagination of people like Elliot Abrams, who have engaged in and launched covert action, who misrepresented those covert actions to the U.S. Congress … in my humble opinion … would seem to be the more likely thing,” Armstrong said.

The Pentagon deferred questions beyond aid support to U.S. Southern Command. SOUTHCOM told Military Times that their assets devoted to Venezuela have been mostly moving humanitarian aid through airlift missions to Colombia via Miami.

“Since Feb. 4, 2019, the United States has pre-positioned hundreds of metric tons of critical relief supplies in Colombia and Brazil — procured both locally and internationally — to help tens of thousands in Venezuela,” according to an official response.

The Pentagon also put Marines assets on stand-by in case the embassy staff needed assistance during evacuation.

CH-53E Super Stallion helicopters with Special Purpose Marine Air-Ground Task Force - Southern Command standby on the flight line aboard Marine Corps Air Station New River, North Carolina, before departing for Soto Cano Air Base, Honduras, June 8, 2016. (Sgt. Adwin Esters/Marine Corps)

SOUTHCOM officials did not comment on accusations by Russia that U.S. special operations forces were staging in Puerto Rico in February for a possible military option.

The Army’s 7th Special Forces Group and the Air Force’s 23rd Special Tactics Squadron, as well as a bevy of other Air Force Special Operations Command aircraft, are located in Florida.

Ana Quintana, senior policy analyst on Latin America for the Heritage Foundation, applauded Abrams’ appointment as envoy.

She told Military Times that having Abrams in that position puts pressure on Maduro, because Abrams signals a willingness to oust dictators.

The United States has had a checkered history in Latin America that dates back centuries, including a series of campaigns to control natural resources and covert actions that resulted in assassinations and coups or attempts across the region, the recent history has a different look.

Former SOUTHCOM commander from 2006 to 2009, retired Navy Adm. James Stavridis, now operating executive for The Carlyle Group, has written multiple times and spoken out about the Venezuelan crisis while also writing in January in Time magazine that, “a full-blown invasion by the U.S. would foment rage in the region and internationally.”

“There may come a time for more dramatic military activities, perhaps an international peacekeeping force. But for the moment, our efforts are best served by supporting the brave Venezuelans fighting the Maduro regime through the overall efforts of the international community,” he wrote.

Members of the Chilean navy special operations forces and U.S. Army 7th Special Forces Group clear a building during Emerald Warrior in Apalachicola, Fla., April 28, 2015. (Staff Sgt. Kenneth W. Norman/Air Force)

The Navy’s longest running multinational maritime exercise is hosted by allies in the area. The UNITAS — Spanish for unity — exercise has been running since 1960 and partners a dozen or more nations a year for military training, sharing technology and best practices.

Currently, the United States has dedicated training and advising partnerships through the Pentagon with Panama, Colombia, Trinidad and Tobago, Brazil, Paraguay, Argentina and Mexico.

Last year saw the fourth consecutive Special Purpose Marine Air Ground Task Force deploy during hurricane season while also assisting in military training and humanitarian missions in Honduras.

The task force is one piece of an early effort to create a Multinational Maritime Task Force for the region that would be on standby for missions ranging from disaster relief to security.

Retired Army Gen. Barry McCaffrey led U.S. Southern Command from 1994 to 1996 and oversaw operations in Panama handling more than 10,000 Cuban refugees. He continued a focus on the region non-militarily when he served as director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy from 1996 to 2001.

He remains engaged as a sometimes adviser on the region.

McCaffrey said the best options if military moves were going to be considered would be for a coalition of regional partners, such as the Organization of American States, to take the lead.

Though he doubted that OAS would get involved in any armed intervention within Venezuela, he said he could see their role in protecting neighboring borders and perhaps assisting in peacekeeping after Maduro is out.

And that is the best role, McCaffrey said: supporting Colombian and other regional allies through training, advising and logistical support within those borders, but not in Venezuela.

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14 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Why resort to RT for this? Pointless. 

Sorry, did CNN/MSNBC/FOX post this clip on their timelines too?  It's a video of Elliott Abrams.

Edited by ren hoek

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35 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Sorry, did CNN/MSNBC/FOX post this clip on their timelines too?  It's a video of Elliott Abrams.

The Dept. Of State has the whole thing.

- And predictably RT doesn’t provide the whole exchange. It starts at 10:30 and runs to 13:24. The position is that Guaido does not hold actual power.

I’m not saying listen to Abrams but also don’t accept the truncated clip from a Russia state organ - at least listen to the full clip and find a neutral explanation somewhere.

>>Pending election and inauguration of the new President, the President of the National Assembly shall take charge of the Presidency of the Republic.<<

Zambrano, Stanford.

- It’s not a grant of power to Guaido, it’s an instruction from the Assembly for the government to have an election within 30 days and the interim president to govern in that time period. The Constitution doesn’t comtemplate a situation where the government does not follow the Assembly’s instructions. When the elections are called, then the interim president has power. And as a reminder Guaido’s party only has control  for this year.

 

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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16 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

The Dept. Of State has the whole thing.

- And predictably RT doesn’t provide the whole exchange. It starts at 10:30 and runs to 13:24. The position is that Guaido does not hold actual power.

I’m not saying listen to Abrams but also don’t accept the truncated clip from a Russia state organ at least listen to the full clip and find a neutral explanation somewhere.

I don't think they're a "Russia state organ" like that.  You can account for their biases (let's say, towards the Kremlin for example) and judge their reporting for yourself.  Not unlike Al Jazeera when it comes to Qatar, PBS when it comes to the US, or RFE when it comes to Western coverage.  Ed Schultz said he had more editorial freedom at RT than he ever had at MSNBC.  And if the MSM did their ####### jobs I wouldn't have to link to other places to get a subversive viewpoint.  This is so stupid. 

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7 hours ago, ren hoek said:

I don't think they're a "Russia state organ" like that.  You can account for their biases (let's say, towards the Kremlin for example) and judge their reporting for yourself.  Not unlike Al Jazeera when it comes to Qatar, PBS when it comes to the US, or RFE when it comes to Western coverage.  Ed Schultz said he had more editorial freedom at RT than he ever had at MSNBC.  And if the MSM did their ####### jobs I wouldn't have to link to other places to get a subversive viewpoint.  This is so stupid. 

I thought I had completely dropped that point in my response, but I see I didn't. I agree it's a point for elsewhere. Anyway I pointed to the full clip plus the piece put out by Stanford, I'll stick on that.

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