The Z Machine 3,068 Posted August 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, msommer said: Can I make a comparison? It's orange..... There are some, but the US has a more robust system of government that is unlikely to tear up the constitution to allow Trump truly unfettered power indefinitely. Also, it's unlikely that Trump will expropriate whole industries and hand them over to his buddies. Also, Chávez definitely won power legitimately with a big majority... at least the first term. Trump may have won legitimately, but he certainly didn't win a majority of the popular vote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slapdash 14,391 Posted August 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Z Machine said: There are some, but the US has a more robust system of government that is unlikely to tear up the constitution to allow Trump truly unfettered power indefinitely. Also, it's unlikely that Trump will expropriate whole industries and hand them over to his buddies. Also, Chávez definitely won power legitimately with a big majority... at least the first term. Trump may have won legitimately, but he certainly didn't win a majority of the popular vote. I like your optimism here, GB. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slapdash 14,391 Posted August 5, 2018 Just now, Slapdash said: I like your optimism here, GB. Also, sorry to Americanize this. There are very real issues going on in Venezuela and I do not know what will lead to the best outcome. I hope your wife's family are as safe as they can be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Z Machine 3,068 Posted August 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Slapdash said: Also, sorry to Americanize this. There are very real issues going on in Venezuela and I do not know what will lead to the best outcome. I hope your wife's family are as safe as they can be. The two immediate family members that remain there (sister 1 and father) aren't currently in the country. My father in law just recently got a residency card for Panama (where sister 2 lives). Not sure if he's taking a longish break from Venezuela or if this is more permanent. Father in law's wife (wife 3) is currently in Mexico visiting her daughter (not related to my wife). Wife 3 is a Mexican citizen but lived in Venezuela for 40 years. Sister 1 is in Barcelona visiting her son. She has an EU passport through her mom (wife 1) and has begun working on an assembly line or other low wage job just to get some money. This despite being a computer engineer with 30 years experience. But she's over 50 and doesn't have any connections other than her son, nor a degree recognized in Europe. Not sure if she will return to Venezuela in the dinner or not. Her husband (husband 2) is visiting his daughter in Canada, although he only has Venezuelan citizenship. So, the family (particularly the second/third marriages) and those related are getting more and more disperses and strained. I guess it's better to be safe, have enough food to eat, and have access to medical care while being hear your children than to suffer and continue to roll the dice on a country rapidly approaching failed state status with a non functioning economy. Sad to have to leave your country when you're retired and your savings have evaporated. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthycat 1,225 Posted August 5, 2018 1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said: I’ve heard that Venezuela had the highest income in CA/SA/Carib once. wasn't when I was there - there was commerce and business some, but 1/2 the mall stores were vacant, the streets were filled with people doing nothing ..... inflation was going crazy then, it was like $1 US dollar to $200 Bolivars when I got there, and by the time I left it was more like $1 to $350 I cannot imagine how it fell from there .... I literally went to a bank one day and carried a grocery sack of money out. everyone was a schyster ... the guards at our hotel stole our rental car spare tire, so I had to bribe the police to write a report for it .... one night we were held at gun point by the police in a barrio we were working and again, only by emptying our pockets did we find a resolution. It was always like that. Didn't help I was American. beautiful people and country, socialism and that Govt has all but killed it now I think 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bucky86 15,621 Posted August 5, 2018 Blaming Colombia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slapdash 14,391 Posted August 5, 2018 1 hour ago, The Z Machine said: The two immediate family members that remain there (sister 1 and father) aren't currently in the country. My father in law just recently got a residency card for Panama (where sister 2 lives). Not sure if he's taking a longish break from Venezuela or if this is more permanent. Father in law's wife (wife 3) is currently in Mexico visiting her daughter (not related to my wife). Wife 3 is a Mexican citizen but lived in Venezuela for 40 years. Sister 1 is in Barcelona visiting her son. She has an EU passport through her mom (wife 1) and has begun working on an assembly line or other low wage job just to get some money. This despite being a computer engineer with 30 years experience. But she's over 50 and doesn't have any connections other than her son, nor a degree recognized in Europe. Not sure if she will return to Venezuela in the dinner or not. Her husband (husband 2) is visiting his daughter in Canada, although he only has Venezuelan citizenship. So, the family (particularly the second/third marriages) and those related are getting more and more disperses and strained. I guess it's better to be safe, have enough food to eat, and have access to medical care while being hear your children than to suffer and continue to roll the dice on a country rapidly approaching failed state status with a non functioning economy. Sad to have to leave your country when you're retired and your savings have evaporated. Thanks for sharing. I agree it is better to be safe, but there are no winners here. Nobody tries to leave their country lightly. Very sad. Sucks for Sister 1 to do a job so beneath her skills, but at least it something. The recent turn against "chain migration" is very wrong to me. I wish she could bring her family with her. The democracies of the world should welcome this. Good luck to your family and friends there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sand 4,266 Posted August 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Bucky86 said: Blaming Colombia Never let a crisis go to waste. Socialist mantra to live by. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sand 4,266 Posted August 5, 2018 2 hours ago, The Z Machine said: Sad to have to leave your country when you're retired and your savings have evaporated. Did it evaporate due to inflation out just expenses to escape? These days there are very few safe currencies and I'm not sure what kind off access a family over there would have to any of those. Good luck to your family. Hopefully it all ends up good in the end. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msommer 7,515 Posted October 18, 2018 Venezuelans escape to Spain and ask to return old favour Tough situation, not least because of Spain's continuing economic woes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Z Machine 3,068 Posted October 18, 2018 1 hour ago, msommer said: Venezuelans escape to Spain and ask to return old favour Tough situation, not least because of Spain's continuing economic woes Yeah, that's not going to work out for the refugees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redwes25 967 Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) Interesting tail off a Mother and Daughter fleeing Venezuela. Unfortunately, the situation is getting desperate. https://apnews.com/a3607cedbae34011a1ac6f82b9d763f8 Edited October 18, 2018 by Redwes25 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sand 4,266 Posted October 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Redwes25 said: Interesting tail on Mother and Daughter fleeing Venezuela. Unfortunately, the situation is getting desperate. https://apnews.com/a3607cedbae34011a1ac6f82b9d763f8 When you socialize the oil industry by replacing 5000 technical people with 100,000 party loyalists this is what you get. So sad and unnecessary what's been done to this country. Writing has been on the wall for a decade. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msommer 7,515 Posted October 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Sand said: When you socialize the oil industry by replacing 5000 technical people with 100,000 party loyalists this is what you get. So sad and unnecessary what's been done to this country. Writing has been on the wall for a decade. More like two - from the moment Chavez was elected 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Da Guru 5,146 Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) USA sending Red Cross hospital ships to aid..Russia sends 2 bombers to show support. Manning cited the humanitarian assistance provided in Central and South American by a U.S. Navy hospital ship, the USNS Comfort, in the past eight weeks. Numerous Venezuelan migrants were among the people who received medical and dental treatment. "Contrast this with Russia, whose approach to the man-made disaster in Venezuela is to send bomber aircraft instead of humanitarian assistance. Edited December 11, 2018 by Da Guru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msommer 7,515 Posted January 23 The leader of the opposition has declared himself interim president amid demonstrations he called for. Allegedly Trump has recognized Mr Guaido as interim president Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 41,257 Posted January 23 (edited) 35 minutes ago, msommer said: The leader of the opposition has declared himself interim president amid demonstrations he called for. Allegedly Trump has recognized Mr Guaido as interim president OAS has recognized him as President. So has Canada. Edited January 23 by SaintsInDome2006 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bucky86 15,621 Posted January 23 Philip CrowtherVerified account @PhilipinDC FollowFollow @PhilipinDC More Maduro has just given US Embassy staff 72 hours to leave the country, says he is ending diplomatic relations with Washington, as seen on Venezuelan state TV. 12:18 PM - 23 Jan 2019 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Elliott 745 Posted January 23 IMF has estimated inflation in Venezuela in 2019 will be 10 million per cent. 😐 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonessed 3,044 Posted January 23 The amount of ruin and destruction Maduro has willfully brought down on this country is staggering. It’s unconscionable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bucky86 15,621 Posted January 24 Putting on my Is there any chance Trump uses this as his Reichstag? If we don't evacuate the embassy, because we don't recognize Maduro as president, and the military remains behind Maduro. What if there is a confrontation? Then what if Trump claims Venezuelan terrorists are a part of the migrant caravan to attack us? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msommer 7,515 Posted January 24 10 hours ago, Bucky86 said: Putting on my Is there any chance Trump uses this as his Reichstag? If we don't evacuate the embassy, because we don't recognize Maduro as president, and the military remains behind Maduro. What if there is a confrontation? Then what if Trump claims Venezuelan terrorists are a part of the migrant caravan to attack us? It's pretty far to Venezuela. He might use it as his Grenada. BUt I doubt it - it would be a huge operation to do, and worst case (for Trump) what if they fold like an accordion - then he's left holding the bag actually running Venezuela too.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 41,257 Posted January 24 We might actually see a change here, finally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 41,257 Posted January 24 Venezuela’s Suicide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timschochet 24,375 Posted January 24 It seems like President Trump is doing the right thing here. Anyone disagree? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 41,257 Posted January 24 8 minutes ago, timschochet said: It seems like President Trump is doing the right thing here. Anyone disagree? It probably is. Canada and the OAS have joined in recognizing the new president. The only holdout is Mexico which is emphasizing the role of democracy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 41,257 Posted January 24 (edited) Quote Countries recognising Juan Guaido as Venezuela's president: - US - Canada - Brazil - Paraguay - Colombia - Argentina - Peru - Ecuador - Costa Rica 11:28 AM - 23 Jan 2019 Link. Edited January 24 by SaintsInDome2006 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 41,257 Posted January 24 Normal country, Maduro will be speaking personally before the nation's Supreme Court. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 41,257 Posted January 24 (edited) 16 hours ago, jonessed said: The amount of ruin and destruction Maduro has willfully brought down on this country is staggering. It’s unconscionable. Quote Venezuela GDP growth. 2012: 5.6% 2013: 1.3% 2014: -3.9% 2015: -6.2% 2016: -17% 2017: -15% 2018: -16% Edited January 24 by SaintsInDome2006 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 41,257 Posted January 24 (edited) Quote Venezuela Inflation, 2018: 12,615% GDP growth, 2016: -17% GDP growth, 2017: -15% GDP growth, 2018: -16% Economy since 2011: Shrunk by 70% Share of population living in poverty: 87% Average weight lost per person in 2016: 8 kg Average weight lost per person in 2017: 11 kg Quote Worst performing currencies against US Dollar over past year. Venezuela: -2,500,000% Argentina: -90% Link. Edited January 24 by SaintsInDome2006 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 41,257 Posted January 24 Nations still recognizing Maduro: - Bolivia - China - Cuba - Iran - Mexico - Russia - Turkey - Syrian regime - Uruguay *** - It's a little odd to see Mexico in that group. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ren hoek 3,224 Posted January 24 5 hours ago, timschochet said: It seems like President Trump is doing the right thing here. Anyone disagree? The US has definitely been a good faith actor in Latin America. They want to restore democracy because they care about Venezuelans. Can’t imagine what else would draw them in to help this oil-rich nation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timschochet 24,375 Posted January 24 5 minutes ago, ren hoek said: The US has definitely been a good faith actor in Latin America. They want to restore democracy because they care about Venezuelans. Can’t imagine what else would draw them in to help this oil-rich nation. I appreciate the sarcasm, and don't disagree with it. But you failed to answer the question: right now, is President Trump doing the right thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Don't Noonan 4,487 Posted January 24 socialism at its finest! This is why we can't let progressives like AOC ruin our country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ren hoek 3,224 Posted January 24 9 minutes ago, timschochet said: I appreciate the sarcasm, and don't disagree with it. But you failed to answer the question: right now, is President Trump doing the right thing? No, I don't think he is. It's a coup. It's to farm out Venezuela to all our transnational corporations. Even if it was our place to declare who the Venezuelan ruler is, even if Maduro sucks, I don't think it's our place to meddle in their affairs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ren hoek 3,224 Posted January 24 Chris Cuomo went offscript on this and it was pretty surreal. https://twitter.com/alsoconnor/status/1088307665564889088 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shader 4,619 Posted January 24 6 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said: Nations still recognizing Maduro: - Bolivia - China - Cuba - Iran - Mexico - Russia - Turkey - Syrian regime - Uruguay *** - It's a little odd to see Mexico in that group. A really good twitter account to follow is @StratSentinel He's got a map he's coloring in that shows countries that have expressed support for the different individuals. I agree I was shocked to see Mexico side with Russia and China and Syria. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ren hoek 3,224 Posted January 24 Ro Khanna @RoKhanna With respect Senator Durbin, the US should not anoint the leader of the opposition in Venezuela during an internal, polarized conflict. Let us support Uruguay, Mexico, & the Vatican's efforts for a negotiated settlement & end sanctions that are making the hyperinflation worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msommer 7,515 Posted January 24 8 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said: Nations still recognizing Maduro: - Bolivia - China - Cuba - Iran - Mexico - Russia - Turkey - Syrian regime - Uruguay *** - It's a little odd to see Mexico in that group. Remember their new president is a leftist populist, like Chavez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Z Machine 3,068 Posted January 24 Everyone is bracing for the worst here. As usual in these situations, it comes down to the military. They've expressed backing of Maduro, but the situation can't continue much longer like this. Your can't starve the population. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ren hoek 3,224 Posted January 24 I'm so ####### sick of regime change Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msommer 7,515 Posted January 24 16 minutes ago, The Z Machine said: Everyone is bracing for the worst here. As usual in these situations, it comes down to the military. They've expressed backing of Maduro, but the situation can't continue much longer like this. Your can't starve the population. 7 minutes ago, ren hoek said: I'm so ####### sick of regime change Well, ren. You come off as a bit of a Richard here. Care to explain the basis for your continued support of Maduro, considering the balls up job he is doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 41,257 Posted January 24 2 hours ago, shader said: A really good twitter account to follow is @StratSentinel He's got a map he's coloring in that shows countries that have expressed support for the different individuals. I agree I was shocked to see Mexico side with Russia and China and Syria. Good follow, thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ren hoek 3,224 Posted January 25 2 hours ago, msommer said: Well, ren. You come off as a bit of a Richard here. Care to explain the basis for your continued support of Maduro, considering the balls up job he is doing? How is opposing US-backed regime change akin to support for Maduro? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[scooter] 11,497 Posted January 25 Does this really count as a typical "regime change", though? Isn't their legislature following Constitutional protocol? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Z Machine 3,068 Posted January 25 13 minutes ago, [scooter] said: Does this really count as a typical "regime change", though? Isn't their legislature following Constitutional protocol? Eh, the rule of law has been dead three for years. It doesn't matter. Maduro has certainly lost the backing of the people though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ren hoek 3,224 Posted January 25 https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1088640993157677057 "I love the United States" - Venezuelan President @NicolasMaduro spoke out today after the Trump administration backed non-elected opposition figure Juan Guaidó and called Maduro "illegitimate". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msommer 7,515 Posted January 25 8 hours ago, ren hoek said: How is opposing US-backed regime change akin to support for Maduro? Well those are your options at this time. Feel free to join reality, ren Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Z Machine 3,068 Posted January 25 Family update: My FIL moved to Mexico (Mérida, near Cancun) about 4 months ago with his wife (Mexican by birth, lived in vzla for 40 years). He's submitted paperwork for permanent residency there. His wife's family put them up in an unused house there and gave them use of a car. His wife's 3 children all now live in Mexico (although they are Venezuelan by birth). My FIL got very bored with his forced retirement. Couldn't stand being taken care of like that either. He's a physician that's worked at the same hospital for 40 years, helped build their dialysis unit and do the first kidney transplants in Latin America. He's been Hospital Director before and also Chief of Medicine in the past. The current Director (which is appointed by the government, but from all accounts isn't an imbecile and actually wants to make things work) asked my FIL to return and be Chief of Medicine again. He stayed with us for a week right after Christmas, and is now waiting for these papers to come through before he returns to the hell that is trying to run a hospital in a country without many basic medicines and where the power can be cut at any time. A few other family members remain despite having the papers to leave permanently. Partly due to age and ability to sustain themselves elsewhere, and partly to participate in the street protests. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bucky86 15,621 Posted January 25 max seddonVerified account @maxseddon FollowFollow @maxseddon More Reuters reports Russia has sent as many as 400 mercenaries from Wagner to Venezuela to defend Maduro. I believe this is known as doubling down on your investment https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive/exclusive-kremlin-linked-contractors-help-guard-venezuelas-maduro-sources-idUSKCN1PJ22M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites