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The 1.01: Cook or Fournette (1 Viewer)

georg013

Footballguy
Saw this in another forum and decided to post it here.

Let's be real, if you have the 1.01 these are the two players you are deciding between. You want to get it right. This question is two-fold. A) Who do you prefer and why?B) What would it take for you to spend the 1.01 on THE OTHER GUY. Thanks in advance. 
 

 
Cook for me because I think he will ball in any offense. 

If Fournette went to a team that likes to pound it with big backs (thinking of Carolina here) I might change it to him.

 
At this exact moment, I've watched 4 game cut ups of Fournette and 4 games of Cook and I've come away relatively unimpressed with Cook.  So Fournette for now.  

 
Trade it  :P

2017 draft is overhyped IMO.  The best part is that there will still be really talented players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds,  not that it's top heavy IMO...  Still depends on landing spots though.   Could get better,  could get worse. 

 
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Sad to say I don't have a clue who Cook is. I used to follow it very close.

I do know the other one plays for LSU.
His name is Freddy Cook and he set an SEC record with 32 TDs for Ole Miss this year. You should definitely draft him.

 
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I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm still going with McCaffrey as my top RB.  He's almost a full year and a half younger than Fournette.  McCaffrey dominated Division 1 as a 19 year old and followed it up as a 20 year old.  He was their entire offense and still put up monster stats this season.  I like Cook probably 2nd, then Fournette.  Chubb is 4.  A lot could change after the combine, but that's where I'm at right now.

 
My post above is why I don't need the top pick.  I'll probably safely get McCaffrey at 3 and that's the highest he'll probably go in dynasty drafts.

 
I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm still going with McCaffrey as my top RB.  He's almost a full year and a half younger than Fournette.  McCaffrey dominated Division 1 as a 19 year old and followed it up as a 20 year old.  He was their entire offense and still put up monster stats this season.  I like Cook probably 2nd, then Fournette.  Chubb is 4.  A lot could change after the combine, but that's where I'm at right now.




 
I also think McCaffrey is closer than people are giving credit for, but I am not willing to put him first until the NFL validates him for me. 

He is currently the guy I am looking at with my 3rd pick in a league that is RB heavy.

 
For the first time ever I have the 1.1 pick and am chomping at the bit for a franchise RB. I do not watch college football much, so at this stage I have no idea other than reading what the experts say.

From my experience, I would prefer to take whichever one seems to have that natural instinct RB "It Factor", like Emmitt Smith, A. Foster in his prime and L. Bell. Which of these 2 fits that mold the most?

 
For the first time ever I have the 1.1 pick and am chomping at the bit for a franchise RB. I do not watch college football much, so at this stage I have no idea other than reading what the experts say.
I am here too, but I have to be honest... taking an RB first overall makes me nervous when I could be targetting a potential WR1 with maybe twice the length of time in his prime. 

How many of you are considering trading out the 1.01 to take a top WR+ in 2017?

 
I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm still going with McCaffrey as my top RB.  He's almost a full year and a half younger than Fournette.  McCaffrey dominated Division 1 as a 19 year old and followed it up as a 20 year old.  He was their entire offense and still put up monster stats this season.  I like Cook probably 2nd, then Fournette.  Chubb is 4.  A lot could change after the combine, but that's where I'm at right now.
Didn't Donald Brown dominate the NCAA in rushing as well :shrug:   Also, I hate to throw race into it, but when did a white non-fullback RB dominate the NFL?  There's no way on Gods green earth I take him 1.01.

 
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I am here too, but I have to be honest... taking an RB first overall makes me nervous when I could be targetting a potential WR1 with maybe twice the length of time in his prime. 

How many of you are considering trading out the 1.01 to take a top WR+ in 2017?
Not this year.

 
Didn't Donald Brown dominate the NCAA in rushing as well :shrug:   Also, I hate to throw race into it, but when did a white non-fullback RB dominate the NFL?  There's no way on Gods green earth I take him 1.01.
Couldn't agree more. The last dominant white halfback played before most of the people on this forum were born. I think McCaffrey will help some team, but as a poor mans Reggie Bush, with returns and some pass catching, but I think he ends up being no better than the 5th or worse most productive fantasy back in this draft.

 
As for Fournette vs Cook, as many have said, their landing spot will make a big difference. I think Fournette needs to land somewhere that has an above average passing attack or he will see stacked boxes a la Gurley. Cook with his pass catching ability has a wider range of teams in which he could be immediately productive.

 
Couldn't agree more. The last dominant white halfback played before most of the people on this forum were born. I think McCaffrey will help some team, but as a poor mans Reggie Bush, with returns and some pass catching, but I think he ends up being no better than the 5th or worse most productive fantasy back in this draft.
JohnnyU and Petekrum - Why is it racism if someone said something like this about a black RB, but in regard to McCaffrey it is ok? I'm serious. Imagine the outcry if this was reversed. I don't mean to pick on you guys, I'm just tired of this storyline with McCaffrey.

Ignore his skin color. Huge college production - check. Speed - check. Elusive - check. Great receiver - check. Smart - check (and that matters - look at dumb as a post C. Michael). I'm looking forward to seeing his measureables at the combine, but his production already showed me what he can do on the field.

Edit - As for Fournette v. Cook, give me the 230 lb RB who runs the 4.4.

 
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Teams where QB lines up under center and backs are in the eye formation for run plays... Fournette (NE, Dallas, Tenn, etc.)

Shotgun, wing back offenses, or teams often playing from behind... Cook all day long.  If the line creates a hole, Fournette could be gone (but so can many of them, such as Gurley, but he never sees holes to run through).  Cook is a play maker who will have an immediate impact on a lot of teams.  My opinion.  

 
Cook for me because I think he will ball in any offense. 

If Fournette went to a team that likes to pound it with big backs (thinking of Carolina here) I might change it to him.
As a Carolina fan, I'd rather have Cook.  

 
I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm still going with McCaffrey as my top RB.  He's almost a full year and a half younger than Fournette.  McCaffrey dominated Division 1 as a 19 year old and followed it up as a 20 year old.  He was their entire offense and still put up monster stats this season.  I like Cook probably 2nd, then Fournette.  Chubb is 4.  A lot could change after the combine, but that's where I'm at right now.
Pretty sure Chubb said he's returning for his senior season. 

 
JohnnyU and Petekrum - Why is it racism if someone said something like this about a black RB, but in regard to McCaffrey it is ok? I'm serious. Imagine the outcry if this was reversed. I don't mean to pick on you guys, I'm just tired of this storyline with McCaffrey.

Ignore his skin color. Huge college production - check. Speed - check. Elusive - check. Great receiver - check. Smart - check (and that matters - look at dumb as a post C. Michael). I'm looking forward to seeing his measureables at the combine, but his production already showed me what he can do on the field.

Edit - As for Fournette v. Cook, give me the 230 lb RB who runs the 4.4.
I'm sorry, but it does matter. It's the same with white cornerbacks. There's been one in the last 25 years. That says to me if there's a white corner coming out I'm steering clear. There's a reason the last truly long term successful white RB was John Riggins. Again, I think he will have a nice NFL career, but history suggests he will not be a bellcow back or a huge fantasy force.

 
I'm sorry, but it does matter. It's the same with white cornerbacks. There's been one in the last 25 years. That says to me if there's a white corner coming out I'm steering clear. There's a reason the last truly long term successful white RB was John Riggins. Again, I think he will have a nice NFL career, but history suggests he will not be a bellcow back or a huge fantasy force.
But it's not common in college either.  Most college RBs, especially the stars, are black in the FBS.  

Pick the white college player: (YPC - Yards Per Carry, YPR - Yards Per Reception, 40 time is either from combine or projected)

A:  6.8 YPC, 23 Rec, 7 YPR, 5' 8", 200 lbs, 4.37 40-time

B:  6.5 YPC, 76 Rec, 11.5 YPR, 5' 11", 210 lbs, 4.46 40-time

C:  6.2 YPC, 99 Rec, 12 YPR, 6', 200 lbs, 4.5 40-time

D:  5 YPC, 78 Rec, 6.8 YPR, 6' 1". 230 lbs, 4.6 40-time

E. 6.2 YPC, 41 Rec, 12.8 YPR, 6' 1", 235 lbs, 4.47 40-time

Did you pick out the white one?  I doubt it.  The players were Barry Sanders, Dalvin Cook, Christian McCaffrey, Le'veon Bell, and Leonard Fournette.  Look at stats and watch game tape. He can play.  And if you pass on him just cuz he's white, it's your loss.

 
Combine results for RB's matter to me and for sure landing spot is kind of a big deal so I don't know. I've only seen a few mock drafts, which are of course pretty worthless other than just fun, but the team most linked to Fournette is Carolina and team I see Cook most commonly linked is the Colts. In that pretend situation and assuming combine results did not change something I'd take Cook over Fournette despite rating Fournette higher so again no way I can answer this question right now but can only say Fournette is my #1 rated player.

One question for people. I got a co-owner on a dynasty team where we will have pick 1 or 2 and he's super down on Fournette due mainly to his injury history.  He told me the other day to name RB's in college who could not stay healthy that reached the NFL and did. I drew a blank but I'm sure it's happened a few times and if anyone recalls it speak on it.

 
JohnnyU and Petekrum - Why is it racism if someone said something like this about a black RB, but in regard to McCaffrey it is ok? I'm serious. Imagine the outcry if this was reversed. I don't mean to pick on you guys, I'm just tired of this storyline with McCaffrey.

Ignore his skin color. Huge college production - check. Speed - check. Elusive - check. Great receiver - check. Smart - check (and that matters - look at dumb as a post C. Michael). I'm looking forward to seeing his measureables at the combine, but his production already showed me what he can do on the field.

Edit - As for Fournette v. Cook, give me the 230 lb RB who runs the 4.4.
Like I said, it irks me to bring race into it, but that doesn't change the fact that no white non-fullback has been a stud RB in any recent era.  Yes, there was Larry Csconka, Jim Taylor, Mike Alstott, Rocky Bleier, and John Riggins but they were all fullbacks and most (except Alstott) played over 30 years ago or longer.  The only non-white stud running backs that I can think of were Red Grange, Frank Gifford, and Paul Hornung.  In the 70s there was Ed Podolak, who was very good, but not great. I wouldn't feel comfortable spending a 1.01 on someone that hasn't broken the mold in 40 or 50 years, especially when there are two very good RBs in the draft in Fournette and Cook.

 
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One question for people. I got a co-owner on a dynasty team where we will have pick 1 or 2 and he's super down on Fournette due mainly to his injury history.  He told me the other day to name RB's in college who could not stay healthy that reached the NFL and did. I drew a blank but I'm sure it's happened a few times and if anyone recalls it speak on it.
Offhand, Willis McGahee is an obvious choice, as is Frank Gore.  I'm sure there are plenty more...

 
Offhand, Willis McGahee is an obvious choice, as is Frank Gore.  I'm sure there are plenty more...
Thanks for reply and Gore is great one to bring up, can't imagine anything trumps his injury history vs NFL health. I was not playing dynasty when he entered the NFL but I recall his injury history was so severe that people were scared off in redrafts. If I"m not mistaken he had both ACL's and both shoulders operated on, maybe one of those was after college but to have that history and running solid at 33 is something no one would have predicted. He'll for sure be the guy I go to if I want Fournette and co-owner is worried about injuries.

I don't remember McGahee's injury history, just the major knee blowout he suffered.

 
But it's not common in college either.  Most college RBs, especially the stars, are black in the FBS.  

Pick the white college player: (YPC - Yards Per Carry, YPR - Yards Per Reception, 40 time is either from combine or projected)

A:  6.8 YPC, 23 Rec, 7 YPR, 5' 8", 200 lbs, 4.37 40-time

B:  6.5 YPC, 76 Rec, 11.5 YPR, 5' 11", 210 lbs, 4.46 40-time

C:  6.2 YPC, 99 Rec, 12 YPR, 6', 200 lbs, 4.5 40-time

D:  5 YPC, 78 Rec, 6.8 YPR, 6' 1". 230 lbs, 4.6 40-time

E. 6.2 YPC, 41 Rec, 12.8 YPR, 6' 1", 235 lbs, 4.47 40-time

Did you pick out the white one?  I doubt it.  The players were Barry Sanders, Dalvin Cook, Christian McCaffrey, Le'veon Bell, and Leonard Fournette.  Look at stats and watch game tape. He can play.  And if you pass on him just cuz he's white, it's your loss.
This sums it up for me, perfectly.

When McCaffrey's numbers are placed along side other college football Legends, the race argument turns into a dead end road.  

Brilliant post,  1080.

 
Like I said, it irks me to bring race into it, but that doesn't change the fact that no white non-fullback has been a stud RB in any recent era.  Yes, there was Larry Csconka, Jim Taylor, Mike Alstott, Rocky Bleier, and John Riggins but they were all fullbacks and most (except Alstott) played over 30 years ago or longer.  The only non-white stud running backs that I can think of were Red Grange, Frank Gifford, and Paul Hornung.  In the 70s there was Ed Podolak, who was very good, but not great. I wouldn't feel comfortable spending a 1.01 on someone that hasn't broken the mold in 40 or 50 years, especially when there are two very good RBs in the draft in Fournette and Cook.
I don't really see the point. It simply means that top level talent white RB prospects are extremely rare, for whatever reason, but I don't see why you'd have to treat them differently in the event one does come around. Generally speaking, it's a good idea to let yourself guide by hard data. But you're applying the wrong data - you should look at bust rate, not general occurrence. If a lot of them were to bust because they're white (well, because of other reasons that somehow correlate with them being white) and they were just as talented as their non-white counterparts, you'd be right to discard them. But so it just means that if you were to draw randomly from a generic elite RB prospect pool, the chance of getting a white one would be very, very low.  

 
I'm sorry, but it does matter. It's the same with white cornerbacks. There's been one in the last 25 years. That says to me if there's a white corner coming out I'm steering clear. There's a reason the last truly long term successful white RB was John Riggins. Again, I think he will have a nice NFL career, but history suggests he will not be a bellcow back or a huge fantasy force.
Mike Alstott?

Danny Woodhead?

 
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I prefer Dalvin Cook over Fournette because I think Cook is more elusive, a better receiving option and does not have the injury history.

I don't think Cook is as good as Elliot, but he is closer to Elliot than Fournette is.

McCaffrey is a player I need to watch more of, but I think he is worth considering as the first pick as well. I would take Cook over him, but its possible I would consider him over Fournette.

If Chubb was declaring for the draft I would consider him first overall as well but still lean towards Cook.

 
I don't really see the point. It simply means that top level talent white RB prospects are extremely rare, for whatever reason, but I don't see why you'd have to treat them differently in the event one does come around. Generally speaking, it's a good idea to let yourself guide by hard data. But you're applying the wrong data - you should look at bust rate, not general occurrence. If a lot of them were to bust because they're white (well, because of other reasons that somehow correlate with them being white) and they were just as talented as their non-white counterparts, you'd be right to discard them. But so it just means that if you were to draw randomly from a generic elite RB prospect pool, the chance of getting a white one would be very, very low.  
I think I explained good reasons why I wouldn't take McCaffrey at 1.01 and in my mind they are very valid reasons, especially with such talents as Fournette and Cook available.  Now if someone wants to spend a 1.03 on him instead of one of the WRs, then I wouldn't have any qualms about that.  Seriously, I hope like hell someone takes McCaffrey 1.01 in my leagues.

 
I think I explained good reasons why I wouldn't take McCaffrey at 1.01 and in my mind they are very valid reasons, especially with such talents as Fournette and Cook available.  Now if someone wants to spend a 1.03 on him instead of one of the WRs, then I wouldn't have any qualms about that.  Seriously, I hope like hell someone takes McCaffrey 1.01 in my leagues.
Oh I wouldn't take him at 1.01 either, but not because he's white but because I don't know if he's durable enough to be a bell cow back in the NFL. I'd also rather have Davis or Williams as well. 

 
Combine results for RB's matter to me and for sure landing spot is kind of a big deal so I don't know. I've only seen a few mock drafts, which are of course pretty worthless other than just fun, but the team most linked to Fournette is Carolina and team I see Cook most commonly linked is the Colts. In that pretend situation and assuming combine results did not change something I'd take Cook over Fournette despite rating Fournette higher so again no way I can answer this question right now but can only say Fournette is my #1 rated player.

One question for people. I got a co-owner on a dynasty team where we will have pick 1 or 2 and he's super down on Fournette due mainly to his injury history.  He told me the other day to name RB's in college who could not stay healthy that reached the NFL and did. I drew a blank but I'm sure it's happened a few times and if anyone recalls it speak on it.
Those have no basis for reality though.  They are draftniks that are projecting where the guy would fit best, not what that team is likely to do.  Why not Cook to the Jets?  Why not Fournette to the Jaguars?  They don't fit the narrative of the fantasy owner that wants guys to go where they'll be the biggest studs, that's why.

 
Those have no basis for reality though.  They are draftniks that are projecting where the guy would fit best, not what that team is likely to do.  Why not Cook to the Jets?  Why not Fournette to the Jaguars?  They don't fit the narrative of the fantasy owner that wants guys to go where they'll be the biggest studs, that's why.
Of course that would take a mind reader and is just as valid as anything anyone else says on this message board.

 
Those have no basis for reality though.  They are draftniks that are projecting where the guy would fit best, not what that team is likely to do.  Why not Cook to the Jets?  Why not Fournette to the Jaguars?  They don't fit the narrative of the fantasy owner that wants guys to go where they'll be the biggest studs, that's why.
Correct but not sure why you needed to make a post about it when I already said they were pretty worthless, labeled it just for fun and said under this "pretend" scenario.

 
This sums it up for me, perfectly.

When McCaffrey's numbers are placed along side other college football Legends, the race argument turns into a dead end road.  

Brilliant post,  1080.
You could have put Toby Gerhart's numbers up against anyone's and they would have looked great too.

 
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