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*2017 Chicago Bears Thread* Keeping Fox and Loggains. Heartache and Despair Ahead

309 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

So you'd rather have an expensive QB that abslutely sucks (Cutler) than a similarly priced QB who is good (Romo)?  I'm assuming both QBs would cost the same and neither would be the answer longterm but one is good and one is not.  You'd prefer to stick with the one who is not good?  Interesting.

Mark me down as wanting the better QB who could make us competitive while we shop for a franchise guy.  All things equal, I don't know why you'd choose Cutler.

I don't want either at this point,  but Romo is 36 and has barely played a game in two years because of multiple serious injuries.  There's nothing good about that.  

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11 hours ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

Listen, I'm not really that invested in the Bears to be honest.  I care way more about my fantasy teams.  That said, I love Jordan Howard and think the bears should continue to focus on the running game.  Cutler sucks and we need to move on from him before we do anything with Alshon.  Unfortunately, this draft class is not going to provide us with a true franchise QB, so I hope the Bears don't get sucked into that line of thinking, if so, we're doomed for another 4 years.  If we end up keeping Alshon, it won't be the end of the world.  I just think, similar to the Cutler signing, it will prove to be a bad move, especially at $14MM per.  Alshon has not earned that kind of money to this point.  If we could get him at $10MM per, then that's a good deal and I'm in favor of seeing if he can consistently be the WR we've seen in spurts.  Bottom line, we need a QB and there are none to draft.  I'm probably in the minority here but I think the Bears should sign Romo to a short term deal and then focus on a franchise QB in the 2018+ drafts.  With Howard proving to be the real deal and an improving defense and IF Alshon can play all year and perform well, we could actually make the playoffs in that scenario (Romo signed and stays healthy).  The only certainty as a Bear fan is that Cutler needs to go ASAP.

What makes you think there are no "true"  franchise qbs in this class? 

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12 hours ago, RBM said:

Alshon is talented and seems like a team guy, bring him back. Hopefully he will toughen up if the team improves. But really do we need to be creating more big holes?  We're fortunate in that we might be good at wr with White, Alshon, Meredith, so if we can cover a position before FA/draft even gets under way, that's big. 

I don't think we're good at wr.  Hopefully White will stay healthy but it has to be treated just as a bonus at this point.  Meredith looked good but still not completely sure.  Even if Alshon stays,  which I think he definitely will, we need a lot more speed on offense.  The entire team is so slow on both sides of the ball. 

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12 hours ago, flapgreen said:

What makes you think there are no "true"  franchise qbs in this class? 

I don't think there are any "obvious" can't miss QBs in this class (then again I thought mariotta would suck...).  I see a QB that has competed and won in some of the biggest games, but has HUGE accuracy concerns, a one year starter, and a guy that just came off a horrible season.  Really not dying to spend a high pick on any one of those guys, though I wouldn't be surprised if one of them becomes a true NFL #1.  I can't see spending the #3 pick on one of those guys because we need an impact player that will be there at that time.

Now if one of those guys lasted until the second, that would be interested, but don't see that happening.

There will also likely be some other QB in this class that is a quality NFL starter, so hopefully we can find him somewhere.

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13 minutes ago, The Tick said:

I don't think there are any "obvious" can't miss QBs in this class (then again I thought mariotta would suck...).  I see a QB that has competed and won in some of the biggest games, but has HUGE accuracy concerns, a one year starter, and a guy that just came off a horrible season.  Really not dying to spend a high pick on any one of those guys, though I wouldn't be surprised if one of them becomes a true NFL #1.  I can't see spending the #3 pick on one of those guys because we need an impact player that will be there at that time.

Now if one of those guys lasted until the second, that would be interested, but don't see that happening.

There will also likely be some other QB in this class that is a quality NFL starter, so hopefully we can find him somewhere.

This is what really sucks about this year.  The Bears are finally in a position to draft a QB very high and no one thinks any of the prospects are worth the pick.  If they don't take one in the first round then they have to wait till the second but chances are the QBs available then will also be reaches.  I'm not sure there will ever be a round in this draft where a QB is the best player available.

The other issue is that this should be the highest pick the Bears have in a very long time unless they trade up in the future.  I do not see the Bears losing this many games again any time soon.  It's very likely they have another double digit loss season but I don't see them picking in the top 5 again.  That means this year is the year to get a top QB.

I'm not sure how I feel about it.

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It will shake out before draft and all of a sudden people will have 3 qbs going in the top 10.  Garoppolo or one of the 3 top rated qbs will hit.  Just have to hope Bears get the right one. 

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The Bears are now "officially" shopping Cutler.  Hopefully they can find a team willing to trade for him.  Some will say that teams won't trade because they can just wait for the Bears to release him but it may be smarter for them to trade.  If a team trades for Cutler they also acquire his very friendly contract which goes through 2020 and doesn't guarantee him any more money.  The only issue with that is Cutler has some control over where he goes since he could refuse to play or just retire without having to pay back any money.

It's going to be very interesting what happens here.  Hopefully they can manage to get a late round draft pick at least.

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Whatever they do this offseason,  I have no faith this organization will ever be successful.  After last year,  I'll never believe in this pitiful team again.  Why should the McCaskeys even care that much?  A team's success or ticket sales have very little to do with the profit they turn.  George and his cronies aren't very concerned about wins and losses.  That's the state of the NFL now.  Rich owners making tons of money.  Doesn't matter what product they put on the field.  The fans who think the owners care what they think are delusional. 

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1 minute ago, flapgreen said:

Whatever they do this offseason,  I have no faith this organization will ever be successful.  After last year,  I'll never believe in this pitiful team again.  Why should the McCaskeys even care that much?  A team's success or ticket sales have very little to do with the profit they turn.  George and his cronies aren't very concerned about wins and losses.  That's the state of the NFL now.  Rich owners making tons of money.  Doesn't matter what product they put on the field.  The fans who think the owners care what they think are delusional. 

Then why watch or even cheer for the Bears if that's how you truly feel?

What has to be done to change your mind?  New owners?

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On 2/22/2017 at 10:25 AM, Hawkeye21 said:

The Bears are now "officially" shopping Cutler.  Hopefully they can find a team willing to trade for him.  Some will say that teams won't trade because they can just wait for the Bears to release him but it may be smarter for them to trade.  If a team trades for Cutler they also acquire his very friendly contract which goes through 2020 and doesn't guarantee him any more money.  The only issue with that is Cutler has some control over where he goes since he could refuse to play or just retire without having to pay back any money.

It's going to be very interesting what happens here.  Hopefully they can manage to get a late round draft pick at least.

I'm hearing he might retire. That would not surprise me at all. Guy doesn't seem to love the game. 

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Everything I've been hearing is that no teams will be interested in trading for him and that he'll be released.  If he doesn't get a good offer from a team he wants to go to or isn't brought in to be the starter it's likely that he retires.

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You guys are doing this all wrong. I don't care about Cutler, Alshon, and in part Howard if we don't build the line. Invest $'s and picks until you get it right. The more holes you produce the more rushing yards, the less sacks, and the more time you have for mediocre WR's and young qb's to make plays. 

To answer Flaps question, I would replace Alshon with White,  he's a 1st round pick and should produce at that level or we will be discussing his future next year.

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

You guys are doing this all wrong. I don't care about Cutler, Alshon, and in part Howard if we don't build the line. Invest $'s and picks until you get it right. The more holes you produce the more rushing yards, the less sacks, and the more time you have for mediocre WR's and young qb's to make plays. 

To answer Flaps question, I would replace Alshon with White,  he's a 1st round pick and should produce at that level or we will be discussing his future next year.

White who? Kevin White? Guy has missed his first 2 NFL seasons. You serious, Clark?  

The biggest mistake this team has made over its history is never bringing in the players or coaches to support a qb successfully.  Taking away the only good receiver the team has left would be just another example of this.  Team has tons of cap space and there aren't any great offensive lineman to spend money on in free agency with what you would save letting Alshon walk. Would be just another unnecessary hole to create when you have the cap space to keep him. Makes no sense. They're keeping him. 

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 I agree they need an OL.  But I guarantee you they stick with the same tackles as last year. It's the Bears way. Have never supported and backed up a qb with good players and coaches.  Loggains will continue to throw the ball a ridiculous amount of times every game while Fox justifies it as "situational." Story of the franchise. 

Edited by flapgreen

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Saw Robert Woods suggested as a cheaper alternative if Alshon wants 16 mil and walks. He's only 24.  Would still be a huge mistake. 

Edited by flapgreen

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The OL can be built up a little more but it's not an issue right now.  Their OL performed well last year and should do even better this year.   The RBs are in fine shape too.  The major issue is getting a competent QB to start and a rookie to develop for the future.  As for the WRs, it doesn't matter if the QB has time to throw if they can't catch the ball.  Last year they had WAY too many drops.

 

Edited by Hawkeye21

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1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

The OL can be built up a little more but it's not an issue right now.  Their OL performed well last year and should do even better this year.   The RBs are in fine shape too.  The major issue is getting a competent QB to start and a rookie to develop for the future.  As for the WRs, it doesn't matter if the QB has time to throw if they can't catch the ball.  Last year they had WAY too many drops.

Getting rid of White may be one of the dumbest comments I've seen on here.  It's too early to move on from White yet.

Is the name calling necessary? You can disagree all you want but others should be able to voice their opinions without ridicule.

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Just now, Rhythmdoctor said:

Is the name calling necessary? You can disagree all you want but others should be able to voice their opinions without ridicule.

I didn't call anyone names.  I called the idea/comment dumb.  There's a difference.  I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I'm entitled to criticize opinions if I feel they are very wrong.  If he wants to back up his opinion then I hope he does because I will admit that I'm wrong if he proves his point.  As of know it's a terrible idea.

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51 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

The OL can be built up a little more but it's not an issue right now.  Their OL performed well last year and should do even better this year.   The RBs are in fine shape too.  The major issue is getting a competent QB to start and a rookie to develop for the future.  As for the WRs, it doesn't matter if the QB has time to throw if they can't catch the ball.  Last year they had WAY too many drops.

Getting rid of White may be one of the dumbest comments I've seen on here.  It's too early to move on from White yet.

I didn't see ANYONE suggest getting rid of White, that obviously won't happen.  I think all Flap said was we can't count on him for anything at this point and I 100% agree.  All we can do is HOPE he can stay healthy, still has the athletic talent he was drafted for after two season long injuries, and as he was a developmental project when we took him, that in the remaining year or two we have with him that he has the time to develop so we can decide what to do with him next.

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6 minutes ago, The Tick said:

I didn't see ANYONE suggest getting rid of White, that obviously won't happen.  I think all Flap said was we can't count on him for anything at this point and I 100% agree.  All we can do is HOPE he can stay healthy, still has the athletic talent he was drafted for after two season long injuries, and as he was a developmental project when we took him, that in the remaining year or two we have with him that he has the time to develop so we can decide what to do with him next.

You're right.  I misread it and thought it said he would replace Alshon and White but he meant replace Alshon WITH White.  This makes much more sense.

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16 hours ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

Building the line is obvious. Unfortunately this class is weak at O line. 

My guess is we get a mid/late round tackle somewhere in this draft as a project and that's about it.  There may be a couple "better" tackles available in FA, but probably few if any that will be rock solid long term starters.  I still think we really messed up last year when we pursued Massie over Schwartz.  For only a little bit more money we could have had that position locked down for 4+ years.

Does paying someone like Russell Okung 8M/season make us that much better?  If the line plays like they did towards the end of the season, I'm not sure he does.  He's been a starter on big teams, but he has is own issues.

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6 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

You're right.  I misread it and thought it said he would replace Alshon and White but he meant replace Alshon WITH White.  This makes much more sense.

OK, then you were commenting on KC's comment, not Flaps, didn't catch that.

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We can't count on Alshon either. From a business standpoint, he is the same as White. Only that White is a cheaper option that could turn into a WR1 once we fix the other issues. Like OL and QB.

It's my two cents. I would moderately invest and use multiple picks on OL until I fell ### backwards into a line that rivals the Dallas Cowboys. Name a team that has had success with a 1st or 2nd year QB and a crappy Oline. Heck, just look at Indy. Luck should have that team deep in the playoffs each year, but they give up too many sacks. Teams like Cleveland, LA, and Buffalo continue to suck with young qb's because they can't protect their young investment.

And before you respond, keep in mind this isn't just about having 5 starters. I want 5 more guys that could start for half the teams in the league sitting on our bench. Injuries are too prevalent to not build depth. 

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interesting...

Quote

The Buffalo News' Vic Carucci passes along "a lot of buzz" that the 49ers could draft Alabama ILB Reuben Foster with the No. 2 overall pick.

Carucci is one of the NFL's most well-connected beat writers, having worked for multiple teams and as a reporter for NFL.com. Even if he gets past San Francisco at No. 2, Carucci fully expects Foster to be drafted in the single digits. After watching Foster's college tape, ESPN's Louis Riddick described him as "everything I want in a run-and-hit linebacker," and "vicious" on the field. Foster, however, is presently recovering from rotator cuff surgery.

I'd love to see Foster go at #2

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:

We can't count on Alshon either. From a business standpoint, he is the same as White. Only that White is a cheaper option that could turn into a WR1 once we fix the other issues. Like OL and QB.

It's my two cents. I would moderately invest and use multiple picks on OL until I fell ### backwards into a line that rivals the Dallas Cowboys. Name a team that has had success with a 1st or 2nd year QB and a crappy Oline. Heck, just look at Indy. Luck should have that team deep in the playoffs each year, but they give up too many sacks. Teams like Cleveland, LA, and Buffalo continue to suck with young qb's because they can't protect their young investment.

And before you respond, keep in mind this isn't just about having 5 starters. I want 5 more guys that could start for half the teams in the league sitting on our bench. Injuries are too prevalent to not build depth. 

Agree with the ol part. Hawkeye, along with some others, think we're fine at ol. We most definitely are not IMO. The tackles played at an average level over the last half of the season. That doesn't mean we're fine there. Our tackles blow ###. We need 2 more.  They're none really available worth a damn in FA, so we will have to draft some. I think we can do a lot of good with the secondary in FA. If we can get Garoppolo for a second, I say we go for it. Do not give up 3rd pick for him. 

There's zero comparison between Alshon and White. That's why Alshon will get huge money and we couldn't get a 7th for White. 

Edited by flapgreen

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There's nothing wrong with wanting to improve the OL but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a good unit.  The OL was good last year and arguably has the best interior group in the league.  They re-signed Kush which is great depth in my opinion.  The tackles were the weak spot but not as bad as some make it sound.  It would be nice to improve at one of the tackle positions and add some depth.  With Grasu and Long back and everyone healthier the line should be in the top 10 if not more.  Just because I think the OL is pretty good does not mean that I don't think they should add to it or try and improve it.

Some say that Howard must have been amazing in order to run for that many yards behind that OL yet he's not near the RB Elliott is.  Then people will say the only reason Elliott did so well was because of his amazing OL.  Is it possible that Howard had a great year because his OL blocked well for him?  If not then it seems you would be trying to say that Howard was actually better than Elliott last year but... we all know that's not true.

The Bears have a lot of money this year and they need to improve drastically if some people want to keep their jobs.  Expect them to be very aggressive in FA this year and to see a much improved team talent wise.

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The tackles were not good. Massie and Leno are not the two guys you want on each end. The terribleness that has been on this OL for years just makes below average look like a good thing. It's not. 

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