oddsbodkins
Footballguy
Think X meant that as a joke. You know, kinda like this catastrophe of a franchise.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
***Chicago Bears Thread*** Poles is playing 5D chess! (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter flapgreen
- Start date
KCitons
Footballguy
rschroeder1
Footballguy
I have to couch this with the clarification that my forthcoming criticism of Nagy could very well be because he's dumbed down the gameplan so much for Trubisky. But if that's the case, there are serious questions about the Bears' personnel management. If this team is win-now, and Daniel gives you a better chance to win, what else can I say?
I was watching the Texans game this afternoon, and I'm just so struck by the number of designed roll-outs and moving pockets the Texans call for Watson. Not just that he's a threat to run - he seems to be a really good passer with his feet in motion.
Once again today, the Bears gameplan included (at least if plays were executed correctly) zero designed roll-outs, zero bootlegs, zero moving pockets. Every called pass play was a straight drop. There's a serious problem here - how can the offensive repertoire not include basic professional-level strategies?
It's nice that Nagy is finally running some power run plays out of the I-formation. Not sure what the fans need to do to see some max protect on passing plays. Again, simple things here that other NFL teams run...like a tight end chipping on Bosa. Perhaps I didn't watch closely enough, but it just doesn't seem to be part of the repertoire.
It's easy to nit-pick the play-calling in the red zone in hindsight. The first-half play in which Robinson drew an interference flag really struck me. He was the only pass-catcher, at least to the naked eye, running a route. Now this might make sense if you're in your heavy set and you're throwing a quick fade, whether you like the fade pass or not. But this was a developing pass play. With one outlet.
The other problem I have with the red zone pass plays, and this probably gets more to the heart of Trubisky playing, is that the routes the Bears are calling for their receivers are basically the most vanilla you could get. True, Robinson ran a double move to draw that PI flag. But the incompletion to Braunecker...simple square in. The missed pass to Robinson at the goal line...skinny post. Yes, those should be part of the game plan, but it's getting wild watching other teams play NFL football and the plays they run in the end zone. Crossing patterns...receivers taking advantage of the width of the field in the compacted red zone running the back of the end zone. Heck, a wheel route to Cohen? I guess I'm baffled by this, maybe I shouldn't be.
If we have to endure more Trubisky, I hope the Bears can maybe realize that he might benefit from a hurry up offense. Perhaps it's because he has less time to think about it. Just a theory. But that kind of gnaws at me as well...no doubt, Trubisky sucks, but it seems like Nagy is extremely stubborn to use every tool available to him to squeeze something from this situation. Like, the Bears haven't run the hurry up once all season as a change-of-pace attack.
I was watching the Texans game this afternoon, and I'm just so struck by the number of designed roll-outs and moving pockets the Texans call for Watson. Not just that he's a threat to run - he seems to be a really good passer with his feet in motion.
Once again today, the Bears gameplan included (at least if plays were executed correctly) zero designed roll-outs, zero bootlegs, zero moving pockets. Every called pass play was a straight drop. There's a serious problem here - how can the offensive repertoire not include basic professional-level strategies?
It's nice that Nagy is finally running some power run plays out of the I-formation. Not sure what the fans need to do to see some max protect on passing plays. Again, simple things here that other NFL teams run...like a tight end chipping on Bosa. Perhaps I didn't watch closely enough, but it just doesn't seem to be part of the repertoire.
It's easy to nit-pick the play-calling in the red zone in hindsight. The first-half play in which Robinson drew an interference flag really struck me. He was the only pass-catcher, at least to the naked eye, running a route. Now this might make sense if you're in your heavy set and you're throwing a quick fade, whether you like the fade pass or not. But this was a developing pass play. With one outlet.
The other problem I have with the red zone pass plays, and this probably gets more to the heart of Trubisky playing, is that the routes the Bears are calling for their receivers are basically the most vanilla you could get. True, Robinson ran a double move to draw that PI flag. But the incompletion to Braunecker...simple square in. The missed pass to Robinson at the goal line...skinny post. Yes, those should be part of the game plan, but it's getting wild watching other teams play NFL football and the plays they run in the end zone. Crossing patterns...receivers taking advantage of the width of the field in the compacted red zone running the back of the end zone. Heck, a wheel route to Cohen? I guess I'm baffled by this, maybe I shouldn't be.
If we have to endure more Trubisky, I hope the Bears can maybe realize that he might benefit from a hurry up offense. Perhaps it's because he has less time to think about it. Just a theory. But that kind of gnaws at me as well...no doubt, Trubisky sucks, but it seems like Nagy is extremely stubborn to use every tool available to him to squeeze something from this situation. Like, the Bears haven't run the hurry up once all season as a change-of-pace attack.
twistd
Footballguy
I think the biggest issue is that you have to start over. At a minimum you have to find a QB, and fire the coach. And I think, since the GM staked his job on the drafting of Trubisky, you probably have to fire him too. I’d like to see the Bears start unloading players. I’d love to see them find a suitor for Mack. He was awesome the beginning of last year. He faded as the year progressed. He hasn’t done much this year. He has a massive contract. They might be able to get a couple of firsts for him. The biggest thing would be unloading the monster contract. We know that won’t happen.
As Bear fans, we could probably conduct the press conference ourselves. They just have to right the ship. We have to play better. We need to cut down on the turnovers. We need to execute. We believe in our guys, and we will get this turned around. As we watch them slide to a 5-11 season with very little draft capital next year.
The Trubisky debacle will be costing the Bears for the next five or ten years. The only good thing is that the team sucks so much I would imagine their 2021 first will be high. Maybe they can draft a QB then. It is highly unlikely that this front office will be willing to admit they made a mistake with Trubisky. We will probably have to watch him until Pace and Nagy are fired, and a new regime comes in and has no ties to Trubisky.
As Bear fans, we could probably conduct the press conference ourselves. They just have to right the ship. We have to play better. We need to cut down on the turnovers. We need to execute. We believe in our guys, and we will get this turned around. As we watch them slide to a 5-11 season with very little draft capital next year.
The Trubisky debacle will be costing the Bears for the next five or ten years. The only good thing is that the team sucks so much I would imagine their 2021 first will be high. Maybe they can draft a QB then. It is highly unlikely that this front office will be willing to admit they made a mistake with Trubisky. We will probably have to watch him until Pace and Nagy are fired, and a new regime comes in and has no ties to Trubisky.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Today's loss wasn't all on Trubisky and he actually looked a little better until the 4th quarter when he threw the interception and fumbled. The Bears need to go to the rules committee and lobby them to shorten games to 3 quarters and then maybe we won't have to draft another QB next year.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Then who the hell was it on?! They ran the ball well. The defense was solid. Protection was good. Trubisky SUCKS. Nagy is a bum, as well, but this season falls at the feet of our "franchise qb." He played a terrible pass defense and STILL sucked. Trubisky is done in Chicago, which means so is Pace at some point and also Nagy. Nagy's victory formation call before the fg kick was absolutely gutless. And then he went to the press conference and got all defensive about it. This team is in shambles and just lost to another terrible team. It's over.
My breaking point today was getting a gift fron the defense first and goal from the 4, running a jet sweep with Patterson and two passing plays. LINE UP AND RUN THE BALL WITH YOUR RUNNING BACK 4 TIMES. If you cant manage one yard per carry, you deserve to lose.
Nagy just doesn't understand running the football. He had one good drive, and then got away from it again as fast as he could manage. Then post game he flat out says he didnt run a rushing play at the end because he ASSUMED THEY WOULD LOSE YARDS. Thats freaking crazy talk, what does that say to your linemen?!
Nagy just doesn't understand running the football. He had one good drive, and then got away from it again as fast as he could manage. Then post game he flat out says he didnt run a rushing play at the end because he ASSUMED THEY WOULD LOSE YARDS. Thats freaking crazy talk, what does that say to your linemen?!
man this press conference. I didn't watch all of it but some of it: https://twitter.com/barstoolcarl/status/1188580154571919366
Nagy is a turd. Says you can't play the what if game and then starts talking about [on not running it to get Pineiro closer] what if you fumble, what if you lose yards. He plays scared, is terrible on the mic essentially saying he doesn't have confidence in his players, and takes no ownership as the head coach or leader of the team.
The more I hear him talk post game and get pressed for answers by the media, the more I realize he's in over his head and not the answer.
Nagy is a turd. Says you can't play the what if game and then starts talking about [on not running it to get Pineiro closer] what if you fumble, what if you lose yards. He plays scared, is terrible on the mic essentially saying he doesn't have confidence in his players, and takes no ownership as the head coach or leader of the team.
The more I hear him talk post game and get pressed for answers by the media, the more I realize he's in over his head and not the answer.
flapgreen
Footballguy
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Foles might be somewhat cheap if you would take the contract on...
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
This team is exactly a QB away from contending. Too bad it is the most important position.
and a head coach. We don't have a QB or a coach and those are the hardest things to get right.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
go get matt moore.....shrug
twistd
Footballguy
I am totally baffled by Nagy. I thought he did a great job last year. I thought he seemed to formulate game plans to minimize Trubiskys faults. I thought he did a good job of scheming receivers open. Trubisky seemed to succeed the most when he was either, on the move, or throwing from a clean pocket. This year, as rschoeder brought up, there are no designed roll outs, no QB draws. It is like Nagy is trying to force him to be a pocket passer. Trubisky doesn’t read defenses well. He stares down receivers. He throws in to coverage. He is terribly inaccurate at times, particularly on deep balls. He does almost none of the things a pocket passer needs to do. Yet Nagy seems to ignore all that and force him to stay in the pocket.
One of the reasons Nagy was hired was because he was supposed to develop Trubisky. He was supposed to be a QB whisperer. Trubisky has seriously regressed this year. It is like Nagy has no idea what to do with him. And all the smart things he did last year seem to have evaporated.
It isn’t only how poorly he has handled Trubisky. The team has looked lost at times. They often don’t look prepared. They don’t seem to make halftime adjustments. He doesn’t resemble the coach I saw last year.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Is this really true? Of the 16 teams in the top-half of their respective divisions, you've got:
- 1st round - 6
- 2nd round - 3
- 3rd round - 3
- 4th round - 2
- Later - 2 (Brady + Kyle Allen)
Is it possible to find QB value later on? Sure. But it's a lottery.
Last edited by a moderator:
Did you read the following or did you just get hung up on my saying the loss wasn't 100% on Trubisky?
Saying he looked a little better is like saying he looked better this week is the same as saying he looked better than Jamarcus Russell today. Last week was absolutely pathetic until garbage time.
I guess my sarcasm didn't come through in the post. At least Trubisky put them in a position to win the game after trying to give it away but they missed the kick with time expiring. I watched the Colts win a game on a longer field goal and was envious.
twistd
Footballguy
You know, it seemed the general consensus that Gruden was nuts for trading Mack. And early last year Mack looked like a world beater. But in the second half of the season, and certainly this year, Mack has looked pretty average. He has 4.5 sacks this year at this point. There are sixteen players with more sacks than him. And five others who have as many as him. I hardly heard his name at all today. That has been the case for the last three games. Maybe he is dinged up, I don’t know. But for a guy that has been considered one of the premier defensive players in the league, lately he is not having much impact. And now, the 2020 first the Bears gave up looks like it will be a top ten pick. Not to mention the enormous salary the Bears are paying him. Now the Raiders and the Bears franchises seem to be going in opposite directions. Maybe Gruden wasn’t so crazy after all.
twistd
Footballguy
That is sad. They paid Burton pretty good money, and they drafted Shaheen in the second round. Neither can play.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Yup...and Bears fans were curb stomping the one or two Raiders fans who were defending the trade. Greatest trade ever! Gruden is a moron! Pages of it.
The thing is that this can all change on a dime
BassNBrew
Footballguy
oddsbodkins
Footballguy
Of course Nagy isn't going anywhere but that's not to say his seat shouldn't be scalding hot. One of the worst followups/sophomore slumps in memory. Imagine if they weren't gifted that Denver win...
As for Mack, he's been fine as teams are concentrating on stopping him yet the defense is still playing well. Today they did more than enough to win giving up just one long scoring drive. The guy in the crosshairs should be Floyd. Another complete miss by Pace.
As for Mack, he's been fine as teams are concentrating on stopping him yet the defense is still playing well. Today they did more than enough to win giving up just one long scoring drive. The guy in the crosshairs should be Floyd. Another complete miss by Pace.
KCitons
Footballguy
No more of a lottery than the Bears history of taking QB in the first round.
My point was that we dont need a 1st round pick to find a QB. Other teams have done it. Well, if you have good scouts and a good gm.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Take solace in the time when you thrilled the nation, with your T formation.
twistd
Footballguy
I checked the contracts. Pace signed a two year extension. He is signed through 2021. Nagy signed a five year deal in 2018. He is signed through 2022. The Bears are too cheap to dump coaches and GMs when they have time left on their contracts. My guess is they let Pace go after his contract expires, and fire Nagy at the same time. They will hire a new GM, and he will want to hire his own coach. So we will be watching this through 2021.
The Bears need to make a decision after this season about whether or not to pick up Trubisky’s fifth year option. My guess is they do it. He will put up garbage time numbers, like he did against the Saints, in games later this year. They will be losing a lot late in games. They will point to that and say he is improving. To refuse to pick up his option would be admitting they made a mistake drafting him. I don’t believe they will be willing to do that. Which means he will probably be on the team till after the 2021 season. I’d guess, after this season, they will get one of these veteran cast offs, Mariota, WInston, Cam, etc. Maybe one of these guys revitalizes his career with the Bears, and puts some pressure on Trubisky.
So my guess is that all three will be around until after the 2021 season. The Bears will finish, maybe 5-11 this year. They will have a last place schedule next year, maybe get to 8-8. Claim they are making progress so they are keeping things in place. Finally, after another mediocre finish in 2021 they will finally do what they should do after this season, move on from all three.
The Bears need to make a decision after this season about whether or not to pick up Trubisky’s fifth year option. My guess is they do it. He will put up garbage time numbers, like he did against the Saints, in games later this year. They will be losing a lot late in games. They will point to that and say he is improving. To refuse to pick up his option would be admitting they made a mistake drafting him. I don’t believe they will be willing to do that. Which means he will probably be on the team till after the 2021 season. I’d guess, after this season, they will get one of these veteran cast offs, Mariota, WInston, Cam, etc. Maybe one of these guys revitalizes his career with the Bears, and puts some pressure on Trubisky.
So my guess is that all three will be around until after the 2021 season. The Bears will finish, maybe 5-11 this year. They will have a last place schedule next year, maybe get to 8-8. Claim they are making progress so they are keeping things in place. Finally, after another mediocre finish in 2021 they will finally do what they should do after this season, move on from all three.
twistd
Footballguy
Two things, Pace said when he was hired, that he would draft a QB every year. He hasn’t drafted one since he picked Trubisky in 2017. It is unusual to see anyone succeed at QB that isn’t picked in the first round. But this year both Kyle Allen and Minshew have performed very well. Kyle Allen was undrafted, and Minshew was a sixth round pick. It can happen. And honestly, I’d probably trade Trubisky straight up for either of them. But you can’t find a guy like that if you aren’t drafting QBs every year.
KCitons
Footballguy
Agreed
Foles was 3rd rounder. Brissett was a 3rd rounder. Jimmy G was a 2nd rounder. Kirk Cousins was a 4th rounder. Case Keenum was undrafted. Ryan Fitzpatrick was a 7th rounder. We know Brady was a 7th rounder.
These are just some of the starting QB's in this league this year that are playing better than Trubisky. (sans Foles and Keenum)
We can find a starting QB in later rounds.
twistd
Footballguy
Who I really feel sorry for is ARob. He went from Blake Bortles, to the newest incarnation of Blake Bortles. Imagine how productive he could be if he had a competent QB. I hope at some point in his career he gets to play with an above average QB, or maybe an elite guy. He deserves that.
rschroeder1
Footballguy
Lamar Jackson was the 32nd overall pick, i.e. right at the turn to the second round. If the Bears truly are awful this year, their high second round pick could be a landing spot for a QB.
Let's not forget the advantage, though, of that first round pick for a QB. 5 years of cost control rather than 4 (excluding franchise tags). However, at least with the current CBA, it seems pretty clear that QBs are going to demand a contract after year 3 if they are good enough to do so, so in that context, maybe the first round bonus isn't as important.
Let's not forget the advantage, though, of that first round pick for a QB. 5 years of cost control rather than 4 (excluding franchise tags). However, at least with the current CBA, it seems pretty clear that QBs are going to demand a contract after year 3 if they are good enough to do so, so in that context, maybe the first round bonus isn't as important.
Don't diss the great Blake Bortles - at least ARob is being paid well. I think Nagy deserves a ton of blame for the red zone inefficiency. They are running the ball well and he lines up 1 WR on the left and 3 or 4 on the right side on first down. To me that was a stupid call. They got bailed out by a pass interference penalty when it looked like a poorly thrown ball to the corner of the end zone to ARob. This team is so frustrating to watch! The Chargers were trying to give the game away to the Bears and couldn't do so. They missed a field goal and missed 2 TD catches that went out of the WRs hands. The Bears missed 2 easy field goals including the game winner.
I wonder if the Bears can trade for Nick Foles. I know Kittenmittens and a few others have mentioned this and he would be a huge upgrade compared to what they have right now. Hopefully they won't be suckered into giving them their next 2 drafts for Nick Foles. Hopefully Pace has become a little wiser.
On another note the Cardinals only ran the ball 11 times for 40 yards against the Saints so they didn't do much better running the ball than the Bears did but at least they didn't fumble.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
That isolation for Adam Frankenmunster on the 4 was a sweet play. With this play calling, I'm not sure what other QB they could realistically bring in would even make a difference here? Yes, an NFL QB has to hit a wide open Gabriel, but outside of that glaring miss where he actually threw to a wide open guy, the whole offensive system is running like a car with sugar in the gas tank. And despite that, the game shouldn't of been close. You have to score at least one of those TDs inside the 10. The absolute worst part of the game to me was putting the game on the shoulders of a kicker with 15 career attempts instead of trusting your franchise QB to make a play or two. I realize Mitch probably would've mucked it up, but if the coaches don't trust him to make plays, why is he even on the field? Nagy doubling down on his decision to kneel on 1st down with :43 left to have a k with 15 career attempts to win it is ridiculous. Yes, he should of made it, but he's not Justin Tucker. Just smacked of emotionally protecting Mitch from screwing up again.
Last edited by a moderator:
ericttspikes
Footballguy
I can't even imagine how pissed people are who pay to see this team. I read that the median price for Bears tickets is $323. That is crazy.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Bloom thought they might have to go to Daniel just to keep the locker room from eating itself.
I would not be shocked. Chicago fans seem to be done with Mitch.
Daniel might be slightly better.
I would not be shocked. Chicago fans seem to be done with Mitch.
Daniel might be slightly better.
RBM
Footballguy
This guy. This fn guy might be the poster boy for how disappointed I am in this D. Between him, Floyd and Roquan. Roq might be dealing with some deep personal stuff so I’ll put him behind these other two. Eddie and Floyd have been completely worthless.
Shutout
Footballguy
Burton IS a legit TE (as far as in terms of what he showed before and what is likely available right now to be traded for). The issue is this team..they are just so depressingly underachieving.
twistd
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
Why has everyone given up on Mitch so quickly? He can't possibly go from showing so much potential to be truly being this bad, this quick. its really interesting to me about the way he is being discarded. I suppose it is tied into how people see all the other QBS in his class (that the bears could have had) doing so well but I honestly don't think it is the player. I think it is the coaching. I think they just committed the cardinal sin and assumed that certain parts of the team would carry them or be good enough and they got lazy before this year. It has been a LOONG time since I have seen a team with obvious talent carry over so poorly without lots of injuries being a key factor. They are just laying an egg.
