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***Chicago Bears Thread*** GM is an idiot. Stupid is as stupid does

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Bridgewater to Panthers, if that's already done Cam has to be available for cheap, no way they can keep both.  Though with Quinn and Graham taking up at least 22M in cap space this year, I have no idea how we can fit a ~20M QB in there.

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The Jimmy Graham signing was an unmitigated disaster, but not understanding the criticism of the Quinn signing. He is an elite defensive end. Quinn and Mack rushing from the outside is a scary thought.

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17 minutes ago, Balco said:

The Jimmy Graham signing was an unmitigated disaster, but not understanding the criticism of the Quinn signing. He is an elite defensive end. Quinn and Mack rushing from the outside is a scary thought.

A lot of money into the position, a lot of money into a 30yr old player.  Quinn seems to be more a one dimensional pass rusher (not drop back into coverage etc), so does that mean they will need to drop Mack into coverage even more?  I'm not ripping the move like the Graham one at all, Pace should get fired for the Graham move, but there are some interesting questions over the Quinn signing both this year and how it affects the team long term that are OK to ask.

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30 minutes ago, tdmills said:

Quinn was 2nd in the NFL at generating pressures per snap. He had more pressures in 2019 than Khalil Mack on over 100 less snaps.

He also was asked to do a ton less than Mack, and faced far less defensive attention than Mack. Granted, that will still be the case in Chicago, but just feels like an overpay to me.

Quinn is a decent pass rusher, but that is all he does.He's also hitting 30 years old. 5/70 is a lot for that type of player. Especially when they have so many other bigger needs. 

I have no issue with them moving on from Floyd, I hated that pick when it happened. I would have just preferred if instead of signing an expensive veteran, they maybe would have spent one of the 2nd rounders instead. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, twistd said:

I’d like to see the Bears get Jameis.

Has always been my favorite possibility. (Though I didn't really consider Brady an option)

Seems like they're more concentrating on guys with familiarity with their system/staff though.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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9 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Leonard Floyd released. What a bust.

He'll be an interesting signing for someone, he's not a Shae McClellin level bust, I think he'll have a long career as a mid level DE or OLB not great at getting to the QB but good at playing the run, setting the edge, dropping into coverage.  If the Bears could have signed him for 6M a year, i'd have been happy for him to stay.  For Pace he was a bust because he was drafted so high to get the QB and never materialized into that, but I think he'll keep playing.

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Huge upgrade over Floyd. Great move 

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12 minutes ago, travdogg said:

He also was asked to do a ton less than Mack, and faced far less defensive attention than Mack. Granted, that will still be the case in Chicago, but just feels like an overpay to me.

Quinn is a decent pass rusher, but that is all he does.He's also hitting 30 years old. 5/70 is a lot for that type of player. Especially when they have so many other bigger needs. 

I have no issue with them moving on from Floyd, I hated that pick when it happened. I would have just preferred if instead of signing an expensive veteran, they maybe would have spent one of the 2nd rounders instead. 

The hope for Floyd was he would benefit from Mack opposite him. It didn't work for 2 years. Quinn generating the 2nd most pressure % shows his ability. If he's only good at rushing the passer, i'm okay with it because of Mack/Goldman/Hicks/Danny/Roquan are stout against the run.

 

Floyd was due $13.2 in 2020. With $30 guaranteed from Quinn's deal...it's likely 1st 2 years are guaranteed with a little afterward....basically Floyd's deal + 1 more year for a better pass rusher.

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Posted (edited)

Remarkable Greg Olsen only got 5.5 mil guaranteed and Graham got 9 mil. :lmao: 

Graham should be battling for a roster spot at this stage. Not getting guaranteed money.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL
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But yet another bust of a first round pick by Pace

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If I understand correctly, Leonard Floyd adds to the Bears' potential compensatory pick pool for the 2021 draft.  While he obviously didn't pan out to be the pass rusher of the future, the model of drafting players and turning them into compensatory picks is not something that is that crazy.

I think we need to see the structure of Quinn's contract to fully process what this means.  I'll admit I have cap concerns.

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23 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

The only thing left is for Chicago to trade for Cam Newton...

Or wait until he gets cut.

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37 minutes ago, rschroeder1 said:

If I understand correctly, Leonard Floyd adds to the Bears' potential compensatory pick pool for the 2021 draft.  While he obviously didn't pan out to be the pass rusher of the future, the model of drafting players and turning them into compensatory picks is not something that is that crazy.

I think we need to see the structure of Quinn's contract to fully process what this means.  I'll admit I have cap concerns.

I’m no expert on comp picks, but my understanding is that players only count towards the formula if they’re true UFAs, not if they’re released. Also, comp picks are usually awarded if a team loses more expensive FAs than it acquires, so the lucrative Quinn signing actually puts the Bears at a disadvantage there.

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Wow, thought for sure we'd be able to keep Kevin Pierre-Louis, but nope, he's gone to Washington.  No idea on money, can't imagine he was too expensive.  So we've lost both our backup ILB's and kept two starters that missed time last year.

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All the FA QB's off the board besides Winston, so we are either at Winston, a cut Cam, or trading with a team that knows we are QB desperate...

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I've been rooting for Cam all offseason to come to the Bears. I didn't think they'd be smart enough to move from Trubisky but it appears that maybe they are. But then they sign Graham. 

I do not want Dalton or Winston. I'd love to get Cam for cheap. 

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1 hour ago, barackdhouse said:

I've been rooting for Cam all offseason to come to the Bears. I didn't think they'd be smart enough to move from Trubisky but it appears that maybe they are. But then they sign Graham. 

I do not want Dalton or Winston. I'd love to get Cam for cheap. 

He's not coming to any team on the cheap. He wants to be paid like a starter and expects to stay one. That's not the situation in Chicago. Dalton is the best stopgap to bridge QB, especially at $17mm (which seems ridiculous to say, I know).

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54 minutes ago, saintfool said:

He's not coming to any team on the cheap. He wants to be paid like a starter and expects to stay one. That's not the situation in Chicago. Dalton is the best stopgap to bridge QB, especially at $17mm (which seems ridiculous to say, I know).

He's in for a rude awakening.

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5 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He's in for a rude awakening.

I'd agree. I don't think he makes sense to the Bears as a $20+ million player on a one year "prove it" deal either. Cam could be interesting with Chargers, Washington, or Cincy.

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3 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

I've been rooting for Cam all offseason to come to the Bears. I didn't think they'd be smart enough to move from Trubisky but it appears that maybe they are. But then they sign Graham. 

I do not want Dalton or Winston. I'd love to get Cam for cheap. 

When I say get Cam for cheap I meant in terms of trade capital. At this point he will take whatever money someone gives him. 

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19 hours ago, caustic said:

I’m no expert on comp picks, but my understanding is that players only count towards the formula if they’re true UFAs, not if they’re released. Also, comp picks are usually awarded if a team loses more expensive FAs than it acquires, so the lucrative Quinn signing actually puts the Bears at a disadvantage there.

It gets complicated, but I'm pretty sure that Floyd does count toward the compensatory pick pool because he is now a UFA.  He hasn't been cut, they just declined the fifth year option.

The Floyd release is nullified by the Quinn signing, but that actually is helping the Bears here.  Without the Floyd release, the Quinn signing would negate another free agent release.  So by releasing Floyd and adding Quinn (both former first round picks), the Bears should theoretically be in the about the same situation compensatory pick wise as when they started.  With the caveat that no one knows what the formula really is.

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On 3/16/2020 at 1:37 PM, travdogg said:

 

Teddy isn't a good QB, he had a decent stretch in a perfect offense against an easy schedule.

'Teddy isnt a good QB, he just plays well in football games.'

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The Bears are rapidly going to find themselves in a position where they have to trade just to get a veteran backup, let alone competition for Trubisky.

One wonders if that was the plan all along and all this talk about Bridgewater is just a smokescreen.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, saintfool said:

He's not coming to any team on the cheap. He wants to be paid like a starter and expects to stay one. That's not the situation in Chicago. Dalton is the best stopgap to bridge QB, especially at $17mm (which seems ridiculous to say, I know).

Foles.  Foles is a lot better than Dalton and a little cheaper (salary wise - dunno about trade) even - and if he works out you already have that cheap contract to keep him available longer.

I think the Bears are after Foles, Newton, and Dalton in that order.

 

The Bengals are also probably WAY too stupid to trade Dalton for cheap - they are probably asking for a first because they are afraid to trade and end up with nothing.

 

Edited by kittenmittens

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2 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Foles.  Foles is a lot better than Dalton and a little cheaper (salary wise - dunno about trade) even - and if he works out you already have that cheap contract to keep him available longer.

I think the Bears are after Foles, Newton, and Dalton in that order.

 

The Bengals are also probably WAY too stupid to trade Dalton for cheap - they are probably asking for a first because they are afraid to trade and end up with nothing.

 

Yeah, I think (depending on how contracts transfer exactly) Foles is slightly cheaper.  And he could be treated as a 1yr deal if they wanted to just like Dalton.  I'm pretty sure Jaguars would eat the full signing bonus, and we'd just be left with the per year contracts leaving Foles at about 2020: 15.5M, 2021:20.5M, 2022, 20.5M.  Only guarantee left in there (after this year's salary) is a 5M roster bonus that hits after start of the league year next year, so there is an easy 1yr out if needed.

That being said, it's totally depressing we have gone from an exciting first round pick and a new age of a "modern offense" for the Chicago bears, to trying to pick through the QB scrap heap for someone decent.

That also being said, we need to get one of those guys or we may be toast.

Just a depressing change of affairs from our "excitement" a few years back.

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I thought Graham was stupid. This is worlds beyond stupid.

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Pace dug his own grave.  More years of failure ahead. What an idiot 

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I wonder who the next GM will be. I’ll start paying attention when that happens.

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Posted (edited)

oh wow, I didn't know that happened when I made that last post.  So official Foles to the bears?  What pick did we have to give up?

ETA: Oh for a 4th round pick.  So not bad on the competition side.  I thought they were going to drop Pace's pants and get one of our 2's.

Edited by The Tick

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8 minutes ago, The Tick said:

oh wow, I didn't know that happened when I made that last post.  So official Foles to the bears?  What pick did we have to give up?

ETA: Oh for a 4th round pick.  So not bad on the competition side.  I thought they were going to drop Pace's pants and get one of our 2's.

But they absorbed the whole contract. Unbelievably stupid. Either get someone who can be a starter, or get someone cheap who is a back up. Instead, they get a back up who they are paying $15 million, $15 million, and $20 million the next three years. Just when you think the Bears have done the stupidest thing they could, they do something stupider.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, twistd said:

But they absorbed the whole contract. Unbelievably stupid. Either get someone who can be a starter, or get someone cheap who is a back up. Instead, they get a back up who they are paying $15 million, $15 million, and $20 million the next three years. Just when you think the Bears have done the stupidest thing they could, they do something stupider.

He's not a backup....  :)

 

And $15 million for a middle of the road starter is about 1/2 the going rate

 

Edited by kittenmittens
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4 minutes ago, twistd said:

But they absorbed the whole contract. Unbelievably stupid. Either get someone who can be a starter, or get someone cheap who is a back up. Instead, they get a back up who they are paying $15 million, $15 million, and $20 million the next three years. Just when you think the Bears have done the stupidest thing they could, they do something stupider.

I broke down his contract earlier, think it's 15, 20, 20, but could be cut after 1 year, don't think contract is the biggest issue.

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3 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

He's not a backup....  :)

 

And $15 million for a middle of the road starter is about 1/2 the going rate

 

i'm not so sure about that.  Pace still wants to be right about Trubisky, I still wouldn't be surprised if Trubisky is the day 1 starter, or will be given EVERY chance possible to win the job.

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Posted (edited)

He'll be the starter. 

And his contract isn't prohibitive. They can get out after this year. Jacksonville paid him a lot of money for 1 year for a handful of starts

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL
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2 minutes ago, The Tick said:

i'm not so sure about that.  Pace still wants to be right about Trubisky, I still wouldn't be surprised if Trubisky is the day 1 starter, or will be given EVERY chance possible to win the job.

Who starts is more on Nagy than Pace.

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1 minute ago, kittenmittens said:

He's not a backup....  :)

 

And $15 million for a middle of the road starter is about 1/2 the going rate

 

He is not a starter. He had a good run in 2018. But every other time he has been given chances to start he has failed. You are locked in for three years. The next GM is going to hate this contract.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, twistd said:

He is not a starter. He had a good run in 2018. But every other time he has been given chances to start he has failed. You are locked in for three years. The next GM is going to hate this contract.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong there.  He can be cut this year with no future cap hit.  Only guarantee is a 5M roster bonus at the beginning of next year, so he can be cut before that with no hit.

 I think this can be considered a year to year contract at 15M, 20M, 20M.

Edited by The Tick
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, The Tick said:

I broke down his contract earlier, think it's 15, 20, 20, but could be cut after 1 year, don't think contract is the biggest issue.

The dead cap in 2022 is $20 million. In 2021 it is $20 million. That is a huge issue. At least that is what Spotrac is showing.

Edited by twistd

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, twistd said:

The dead cap in 2022 is $20 million. In 2021 it is $20 million. That is a huge issue.

Where are you seeing that.  For the jaguars dead cap would have been 12M 2021 and 6M in 2022, but that was all based off signing bonus that they are already eating.

ETA: Mabe i'm the one that is 100% wrong, but when you traded for a player, I though original team was stuck with the signing bonus on the spot.  I don't think rating of the signing bonus carries to the new team as that money was already paid out.

Edited by The Tick

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Seems like a reasonable move. Think he'll most likely be the starter. Never really got a fair shot in Jax.  Maybe I'm biased bc have always liked him.  

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Posted (edited)

gosh darn this team for giving me 1 year of hope.

EDIT: I’d like to thank the forum filters for making sound like Ned Flanders 

Edited by gabes1919
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1 minute ago, The Tick said:

Where are you seeing that.  For the jaguars dead cap would have been 12M 2021 and 6M in 2022, but that was all based off signing bonus that they are already eating.

That is what Spotrac is showing.

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1 minute ago, twistd said:

That is what Spotrac is showing.

I use over the cap and they have usually been correct in the past.  Curious the two sights are so different.

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It almost doesn’t matter. Winston has upside. Cam has upside. Even Dalton might have a little upside. Foles has none. It is a lot of money for a guy who can start a few games for you. I don’t think he is a starter. 

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Posted (edited)

A lot of things to bltch about Pace but this really isn't one of them.

Quote

 

@spotrac

·

Mar 16

Re: Teams considering Nick Foles

While the deal has 3 yrs, $57.25M remaining, what you’re essentially acquiring is a 1 yr, $15M+ fully GTD contract, w/ another $5M guaranteed in 2021. The #Jaguars would take on $18.75M of dead cap ($3.3M saved).

 

Quote

 

@TomPelissero

The #Jaguars paid $30.5 million for one season of Nick Foles, who started four games, won none and now leaves behind $18.75M in dead money on the salary cap after his trade to the #Bears. The overhaul in Jacksonville continues.

 

 

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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2 minutes ago, The Tick said:

I use over the cap and they have usually been correct in the past.  Curious the two sights are so different.

I’m wrong. They are showing the cap hit is $20 million in 2021 and 2022. The dead cap this year is $15 million. But you are right, no dead cap after this year. I still think Foles has no upside. Cam or WInston have upside, and I think you could get them for similar money. Even Dalton would be a better option. IMO.

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Worst Bears move of my lifetime 

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5 minutes ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

 

A lot of things to bltch about Pace but this really isn't one of them.

Except fo the fact that Foles has no upside and you could have gotten Winston, Cam, or Dalton for similar money.

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