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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Perennial Failures.

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3 hours ago, -X- said:

Exactly.  Meredith was more or less a bum, who unexpectedly had a good 4-5 games at the end of 2016.  So he’s gone now.  Big f’n deal.

Jeffery was good until BMarsh left, then he fell off substantially with all the BS injuries.  Glad he got a ring with Philly, but he was garbage the last two seasons before he left.

Jeffery was one of the best WR's in the NFL in 2015. On a per game basis, it was the best year of his career. 

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4 hours ago, -X- said:

Exactly.  Meredith was more or less a bum, who unexpectedly had a good 4-5 games at the end of 2016.  So he’s gone now.  Big f’n deal.

Jeffery was good until BMarsh left, then he fell off substantially with all the BS injuries.  Glad he got a ring with Philly, but he was garbage the last two seasons before he left.

Jeffery has always been a good receiver and proved it with the Eagles.  He didn't need Marshall.  The only reason his stats didn't look good was because of the injuries.

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:58 PM, flapgreen said:

The Jets... made him an offer because they think highly of him. 

They did?

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They're saying on the radio that the Bear's doctors gave a thumbs down on Meredith and they didn't think he was worth the risk.  We'll just have to wait and find out if that's the case. 

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7 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

Miller could be less durable than white....

Why, because he hurt his ankle in this years bowl game? Dude had elite numbers and will probably go day 2. Almost 1000 more yards than Ridley. Granted the American conference isn't the SEC, but hard to argue with his 3 year production. Seems like one of the best risk/reward WRs out there.

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Anyone think Dez to the Bears is a real good fit?  Even if he has lost a step, he would be facing his opposition's 2nd best CB and a lot less double teams than he saw in Dallas.  They have the cap space, and the need...

 

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Get Dez Bryant to Chicago on a 2 year deal.  This needs to happen so the rookies have a year or so to learn the route trees.  

Edited by Gustavo Fring

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10 hours ago, -X- said:

Exactly.  Meredith was more or less a bum, who unexpectedly had a good 4-5 games at the end of 2016.  So he’s gone now.  Big f’n deal.

Jeffery was good until BMarsh left, then he fell off substantially with all the BS injuries.  Glad he got a ring with Philly, but he was garbage the last two seasons before he left.

More or less agree on Meredith, but have to completely disagree with Jeffery, had a rough year of injuries, but I would never call his play garbage.  He tended to be effective in every game he played in, and I think he can still be a top end WR in this league.

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1 hour ago, ChuckLiddell said:

Anyone think Dez to the Bears is a real good fit?  Even if he has lost a step, he would be facing his opposition's 2nd best CB and a lot less double teams than he saw in Dallas.  They have the cap space, and the need...

 

I say no.  I still think Dez has good years left in him and I'd be unhappy if he went to the Lions or Pack, but I don't think he's a good fit for the Bears.  He can still play but he comes with the additional distractions like the sideline blow-ups, and calling out his QB and I don't think that's a great fit for more or less a young team.  I think it's a distraction that our offense doesn't need to worry about despite the production he could bring.

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Not to mention he won't be cheap and we already have a bunch of money dumped in the WR position between Robinson, Gabriel and White.  Don't think they can allocate another 7-8M into a WR.

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And looking closer at the bears cap, no wonder why they didn't cut Sims, they gave him such a bad contract they only save 1.6M this year by actually cutting him along with a 4.6M cap hit!  Surprised as most of Pace's contracts gave the Bears a decent out.  Hurts a little seeing someone so worthless in the top 10 of your team's cap number for the year.

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They could've cut Sims before March 16 and only been out the $6M that they paid him in 2017. Since they kept him on the roster then, most of this year's salary became guaranteed and now they'd barely save anything by cutting him.

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1 hour ago, ZWK said:

They could've cut Sims before March 16 and only been out the $6M that they paid him in 2017. Since they kept him on the roster then, most of this year's salary became guaranteed and now they'd barely save anything by cutting him.

oh woops, missed that, thanks.  BACK TO THEY ARE A BUNCH OF IDITOS FOR KEEPING THAT WASTE OF A ROSTER SPOT.

Anger back on!

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7 hours ago, The Tick said:

More or less agree on Meredith, but have to completely disagree with Jeffery, had a rough year of injuries, but I would never call his play garbage.  He tended to be effective in every game he played in, and I think he can still be a top end WR in this league.

Not reliable due to soft tissue injuries = garbage in my book.  I just remember feeling like he was feast or famine whenever he did play during that time.  It’s ok to disagree.

Edited by -X-

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Bennie Fowler signed.  Did ok when filling in for Sanders & Thomas.

Always liked Gabriel on the Falcons, he always seemed to make some crazy good plays whenever I watched them.  We shall see.

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9 minutes ago, -X- said:

Bennie Fowler signed.  Did ok when filling in for Sanders & Thomas.

Always liked Gabriel on the Falcons, he always seemed to make some crazy good plays whenever I watched them.  We shall see.

I'm kinda coming around on Gabriel. Getting him and Cohen on the field together could create a lot of matchup nightmares.

Fowler is pretty meh in my eyes. he contributes on special teams at least. Probably a #4 WR optimally.

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24 minutes ago, travdogg said:

I'm kinda coming around on Gabriel. Getting him and Cohen on the field together could create a lot of matchup nightmares.

Fowler is pretty meh in my eyes. he contributes on special teams at least. Probably a #4 WR optimally.

ugh, I'm not. I like Gabriel just not a fan of the contract at all. He was on a historically amazing offense in 2016, and his yards dropped by half while he had 1 TD in 2017. At least there is a 2 year out at 14 mil.

Meanwhile, a guy like Mike Wallace signs with the Eagles for 2.5 mil. Or John Brown for 5 mil (I understand he is a risk but these are what these kinds of players are worth - need to get another WR through the draft regardless).

I hope I eat my words. 

Edited by pbandy1

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20 hours ago, ChuckLiddell said:

Anyone think Dez to the Bears is a real good fit?  Even if he has lost a step, he would be facing his opposition's 2nd best CB and a lot less double teams than he saw in Dallas.  They have the cap space, and the need...

 

Bear's would have the highest WR payroll in the NFL.  They're already 4th, I think, after the AR signing.  I like adding the talent but I'm not a huge fan of Dez and think he's been very overrated over the years.

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On 4/13/2018 at 2:56 AM, -X- said:

:lmao:  Dude, you need to go play some Madden, draft and run your own version of the Bears as you see fit.  Bears will never do everything any of us plebs want.  Ever.

I'm OK praising Pace when he makes good moves, while criticizing them when he makes poor ones. And he's made plenty of bad moves over the last 3 years. But also made some good ones. His first first round pick is a total bust. Floyd also hasn't done much going into his 2nd year.  He's been pretty terrible in FA before this year.  I think he has the right coach and qb now, though. They could cover up everything else. Letting Meredith go doesn't spell doom for the Bears, but it was an asinine move nonetheless. 

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13 hours ago, pbandy1 said:

ugh, I'm not. I like Gabriel just not a fan of the contract at all. He was on a historically amazing offense in 2016, and his yards dropped by half while he had 1 TD in 2017. At least there is a 2 year out at 14 mil.

Meanwhile, a guy like Mike Wallace signs with the Eagles for 2.5 mil. Or John Brown for 5 mil (I understand he is a risk but these are what these kinds of players are worth - need to get another WR through the draft regardless).

I hope I eat my words. 

It's not that ridiculous of a contract. They had a ton of cap to spend and had a huge need at wr and TE.  Mike Wallace is old and has lost a step.  Not the same type of role as Gabriel. Brown can't stay healthy. 

Edited by flapgreen

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On 4/12/2018 at 4:21 PM, Hawkeye21 said:

Meredith was an undrafted free agent that cost the Bears next to nothing.  They are not out much.  The Wheaton deal was bad but he's gone so it doesn't matter now.

I'm curious if they were more concerned about his knee than NO was.

You seriously think where Meredith was drafted has anything to do with his value? Do you use that for all players? How many years do you go using their draft position as an important determination of their value? 

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On 4/11/2018 at 10:36 PM, travdogg said:

Gabriel will be the slot guy. Atlanta had Sanu, who is almost an H-Back masquerading as a WR. Of course Sanu played in the slot. 

I'm not defending Sims or Wheaton, neither of those guys ever looked like more than depth players, and were very questionable signings at the time, especially Sims because at least Wheaton had the argument he was behind good players. I would also agree that letting Jeffery go for nothing was a terrible move. That said, non of those moves should have any bearing on Meredith. No team should make a move because they think its less bad than something else. 

I don't see Meredith as anything special. He had a decent year in 2016, but that's all it was. Just decent. The guy had 4 games over 75 yards, all coming in games where the Bears got off script, for whatever reasons, and threw 40+ times. He also had 5 games under 30 yards. On top of that, he is coming off a major injury, and needs to learn a new offense, with a new QB. This isn't letting an elite player like Jeffery go, this is letting a role player go for a price they didn't deem him to be worth, and I can totally see where they are coming from, though I may have tendered him at the 2nd round level. I doubt I'd have matched the Saints offer that's for sure. 

Honestly, I think Meredith falls into a similar boat as Kendall Wright. I'd have liked to keep him, but don't really care that he's gone. I'm a lot more upset about dumping a Pro Bowl G in Josh Sitton(and yes, keeping Sims) than I am about any other moves.

That is your opinion, and you may be correct. I wasn't saying White is going to all of a sudden play like a top-10 overall pick. What I said was, perhaps with an offensive minded coach, he can become a contributor, and that Nagy might think he can salvage a recent top-10 overall pick, and that plus, price, and other WR additions, may have led them to view Meredith as expendable.

That said, I'm expecting a day 2 pick at WR, maybe Pace/Nagy have a prospect they really like in that area, and wanted to open a spot for them, who knows?

ETA: I hope you are feeling more positive tomorrow or whenever, you've kinda been the optimist of this thread.

I'm very bipolar with the Bears. Probably due to years of trauma.  I think we'll all look back and see Pace screwed the pooch on this one for no reason. Plenty of cap space. Big need for the team. Will likely be taking a WR in top 3 rounds now. 

Edited by flapgreen

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I couldn't be more with you, Flap. I don't live and breathe Bears, but when I look, I always read your rant of the week - as it usually tells me what's at the heart to Beardom. Often I think you are miles from the mark. Here, though, you had a young, skilled, developing kid on a cheap contract who would have covered perfectly with his steady pace for AR's kind of streaky, on again/off again production. They would have been an above average receiving tandem for Trubisky's development. Paying more and ending up with a Robinson - Taylor Gabriel tandem?  I don't see nearly as reliable or productive a unit. 

I can only think they were scared horribly about the knee (and that will certainly be the claim if this is the poor choice it seems), but NOs docs were looking at the same X-rays, med scans and records? I think it's an unfortunate step back here for the Bears and Trubisky - but nothing that can't be overcome. I do think Meredith would have been fun and a fan favorite as he came into his own as a home grown. I suspect we'll get to see him come into that own now by Ginn on the Saints over the next couple of years.

Keep up your good (loud) work!

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On 4/14/2018 at 0:58 PM, flapgreen said:

You seriously think where Meredith was drafted has anything to do with his value? Do you use that for all players? How many years do you go using their draft position as an important determination of their value? 

Where a player is drafted counts for their value when they are on their rookie contract.  A draft position has a cost value.  It's the biggest reason why Kevin White is still on the roster.  If he was undrafted he wouldn't been cut long ago.

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On 4/14/2018 at 2:05 PM, Catbird said:

I couldn't be more with you, Flap. I don't live and breathe Bears, but when I look, I always read your rant of the week - as it usually tells me what's at the heart to Beardom. Often I think you are miles from the mark. Here, though, you had a young, skilled, developing kid on a cheap contract who would have covered perfectly with his steady pace for AR's kind of streaky, on again/off again production. They would have been an above average receiving tandem for Trubisky's development. Paying more and ending up with a Robinson - Taylor Gabriel tandem?  I don't see nearly as reliable or productive a unit. 

I can only think they were scared horribly about the knee (and that will certainly be the claim if this is the poor choice it seems), but NOs docs were looking at the same X-rays, med scans and records? I think it's an unfortunate step back here for the Bears and Trubisky - but nothing that can't be overcome. I do think Meredith would have been fun and a fan favorite as he came into his own as a home grown. I suspect we'll get to see him come into that own now by Ginn on the Saints over the next couple of years.

Keep up your good (loud) work!

The only thing that makes sense to me on the Meredith decision was that they didn't trust his knee.  I have to imagine the Bears had more info to work with than the Saints.  They must not have though the money was worth the risk.  I'm not sure how else it would make sense for them.

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so what are some day two targets?

WR: Christian Kirk, James Washington, Anthony Miller

OL: Depends if the Bears want Cody Whitehair to play guard or center. If it is guard, Billy Price (Center) is an option.

EDGE: Sam Hubbard or Lorenzo Carter?

CB: If Hughes, Oliver, or Alexander are somehow available, you have to take them IMO. They are likely gone though.

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35 minutes ago, pbandy1 said:

so what are some day two targets?

WR: Christian Kirk, James Washington, Anthony Miller

OL: Depends if the Bears want Cody Whitehair to play guard or center. If it is guard, Billy Price (Center) is an option.

EDGE: Sam Hubbard or Lorenzo Carter?

CB: If Hughes, Oliver, or Alexander are somehow available, you have to take them IMO. They are likely gone though.

WR: Michael Gallup is my favorite WR in the draft, I like Washington as well. Either would be fine in round 2. I'm not a Kirk fan at all, and Miller will likely be a 3rd rounder.

OL: I think Nelson and McGlinchey are on the board in round 1. Love Frank Ragnow as a round 2 guy, even more than Price.

Edge: I think Carter screams bust. Not a big Hubbard fan either. I can live with Landry in round 1, if Nelson isn't there.

CB: I'm not sure this a position they should even target. But if the right guy falls then sure. I don't know about the 3 guys you listed, but if Josh Jackson falls I'd hope they'd be all over it.

Optimally, I want to see an o-lineman with 1 of the top-2 picks, and probably either another o-lineman or a WR with the other. I think the offense needs help more than the defense does. 

If Nelson is gone, a trade down would probably be my preference, especially if they can still land McGlinchey in doing so.

 

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thinking Sam Hubbard is not even an option for Fangio's scheme.

 

Assuming we take Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds at #8, I really think Floyd can have an amazing year. He would be able to do what he does best and that is rush the passer and disrupt the run game.

Edited by pbandy1

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44 minutes ago, pbandy1 said:

 

 

Assuming we take Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds at #8, I really think Floyd can have an amazing year. He would be able to do what he does best and that is rush the passer and disrupt the run game.

Am I alone in thinking ILB isn't a need? Trevathan is great when healthy, and Kwiatkoski more than held his own when he got in there, is cheap, and only 24. 

Edmunds makes me nervous. He's probably the only guy being mocked to the Bears that I'd be unhappy with. Everyone talks about the upside he has as he's only 19, but I think that might be a bigger negative than positive. Personally, he's the #3 LB on my board behind Smith and Vander Esch.

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4 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Am I alone in thinking ILB isn't a need? Trevathan is great when healthy, and Kwiatkoski more than held his own when he got in there, is cheap, and only 24. 

Edmunds makes me nervous. He's probably the only guy being mocked to the Bears that I'd be unhappy with. Everyone talks about the upside he has as he's only 19, but I think that might be a bigger negative than positive. Personally, he's the #3 LB on my board behind Smith and Vander Esch.

Outside of them we don't have much at ILB. Fangio loves linebacker depth and with Trevathan/Kwiatkoski and either Smith or Edmunds, we'd be flying all over the field defensively. It is entirely possible that they draft Denzel Ward instead, though. I have to think BPA and I expect Nelson to not make it past the Bucs.

Edited by pbandy1

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A lot of people are saying trade down but I don't see it. Even if the Bills trade to our spot and we pick at #12, who is left? Smith and Edmunds could go to the 49ers/Raiders, and Dolphins may snag Denzel Ward at at #11.

Now that I think of it, Denzel Ward may very well be the pick.

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55 minutes ago, pbandy1 said:

A lot of people are saying trade down but I don't see it. Even if the Bills trade to our spot and we pick at #12, who is left? Smith and Edmunds could go to the 49ers/Raiders, and Dolphins may snag Denzel Ward at at #11.

Now that I think of it, Denzel Ward may very well be the pick.

at #12, McGlinchey, Landry, maybe Fitzpatrick, maybe even Derwin James. I think they would also like to pick up a pick(s) since they lost the 3 in the Trubisky deal.

If New England offered both their 1's plus, and Nelson is gone, I'd want he Bears to take it.

Edited by travdogg

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8 hours ago, The Dude said:

If we can land Nelson at 1.08 its got potential for a great offseason.

Nelson or Smith about the only two I'll be happy with. 

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32 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Nelson or Smith about the only two I'll be happy with. 

I like Ward but he doesn't really fit Fangio's press and physical corners anyways. Amukamara is that guy for us for now.

I really want Smith too. His instincts win me over as opposed to Edmunds.

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Whether you agree with trading up last year or not, looks like grabbing a QB last year was a good move. With so many teams looking at a QB this year, and the Bears with little ammo to move up, they might have been stuck at 8 without a QB. As it is, so much talent may be falling to the Bears. If Chubb (doubtfully) or Nelson (possibly) falls to them, I think they take the player. Otherwise, I want them to trade down with Buffalo and get multiple firsts in return, if not more.

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31 minutes ago, 3nOut said:

Whether you agree with trading up last year or not, looks like grabbing a QB last year was a good move. With so many teams looking at a QB this year, and the Bears with little ammo to move up, they might have been stuck at 8 without a QB. As it is, so much talent may be falling to the Bears. If Chubb (doubtfully) or Nelson (possibly) falls to them, I think they take the player. Otherwise, I want them to trade down with Buffalo and get multiple firsts in return, if not more.

Yep. Played out perfectly. 

Trouble with trading down is they're in a bad spot to do it. It's possible but not a lot of qb needy teams right after them that anyone has to try and jump. Also, if four qbs go ahead of the Bears like I expect, there won't be anyone giving up a lot to get the 5th qb left.  The good thing is it will be like the Bears having the 4th pick in the draft.  If someone takes Barkley as well, I view it as the Bears having a shot at one of the top 3 players on their board.  That's a pretty damn good scenario, as well. 

Edited by flapgreen

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If the Bears were going to have a trade partner, I think it would have already happened so the partner could parley the #8 to move up again on draft night. If a team covets one of the QBs enough to pay what theyd have to pay, they wouldnt leave it to draft night chance.

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Unless Pace goes completely off the reservation (which historically speaking isnt impossible), the Bears are going to get a really good football player, and possibly one of the top players in this draft. I dont think they should trade down, the blue chippers are difference makers in the NFL. Yes you need depth and lots of picks to work out for you, but those guys are much easier to otherwise acquire. The top 5 non-QBs in this draft may NEVER see the open market.

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32 minutes ago, mbuehner said:

Unless Pace goes completely off the reservation (which historically speaking isnt impossible), the Bears are going to get a really good football player, and possibly one of the top players in this draft. I dont think they should trade down, the blue chippers are difference makers in the NFL. Yes you need depth and lots of picks to work out for you, but those guys are much easier to otherwise acquire. The top 5 non-QBs in this draft may NEVER see the open market.

agreed. Go get Roquan at number 8. He fits a need and is a top 10 pick. He won't be there after the Dolphins, and then you who are your targets in the 12-15 range?

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35 minutes ago, mbuehner said:

If the Bears were going to have a trade partner, I think it would have already happened so the partner could parley the #8 to move up again on draft night. If a team covets one of the QBs enough to pay what theyd have to pay, they wouldnt leave it to draft night chance.

I disagree with this. Why would a team trade up to #8, when they don't know how the board will fall yet? How is giving up assets to move to #8 not still leaving it up to chance?

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I think the entire trade down argument, is dependent on the offer. I would never say the idea of trading down is bad, as long as you are getting a great deal in return. Nothing should be set in stone. The Browns should trade the #1 pick if the offer is good enough.

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If Kirk is available in round 2, do we jump on him? I hope we do. Prefer him over Sutton.

I think that pick highly depends on what the Colts do. I could see them taking Sutton as a big body high upside receiver opposite Hilton.

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1 hour ago, pbandy1 said:

If Kirk is available in round 2, do we jump on him? I hope we do. Prefer him over Sutton.

I think that pick highly depends on what the Colts do. I could see them taking Sutton as a big body high upside receiver opposite Hilton.

If you give any weight to mock drafts, I'd say there is a 99.9% chance Kirk will be available in round 2. 

Personally, if Kirk is their top rated WR available there, I'd prefer if they just passed on WR until later. Edmunds/Kirk is my nightmare scenario of rounds 1-2 going. 

Why do you like Kirk more than Sutton, that's an extremely minority opinion?

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16 minutes ago, travdogg said:

If you give any weight to mock drafts, I'd say there is a 99.9% chance Kirk will be available in round 2. 

Personally, if Kirk is their top rated WR available there, I'd prefer if they just passed on WR until later. Edmunds/Kirk is my nightmare scenario of rounds 1-2 going. 

Why do you like Kirk more than Sutton, that's an extremely minority opinion?

Sutton clearly is the higher upside receiver, but I just like Kirk's game better. Sutton doesn't have great separation which concerns me, he could struggle to get open against quality CBs. He also has some questionable effort on a lot of plays, and his first steps off the line of scrimmage aren't very aggressive. He is a height, weight, speed guy with plenty of potential. 

I like Kirk a lot more, especially as a WR opposite Robinson. His a great route runner with plenty of room to improve. He is also very good at coming back to the quarterback. High points the ball well, and seems to find the open area of the field after a play breaks down.

Granted, he might be a slot only guy and the 2nd round might be too rich for that, but for now I do prefer him over Sutton. Perhaps the 2nd round is better suited for defense. I'm not sure I will like the tackles or guards available at that spot... Whitehair may very well be our center. 

Looking at Lorenzo Carter (edge), Maurice Hurst (DL), and Justin Reid (S). Hurst would be a great complement to Bullard.

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6 hours ago, mbuehner said:

Unless Pace goes completely off the reservation (which historically speaking isnt impossible), the Bears are going to get a really good football player, and possibly one of the top players in this draft. I dont think they should trade down, the blue chippers are difference makers in the NFL. Yes you need depth and lots of picks to work out for you, but those guys are much easier to otherwise acquire. The top 5 non-QBs in this draft may NEVER see the open market.

It comes down to how Pace values who's left at 8 and if he considers them a blue chipper.  If he has a similar value at players between 8 and 15 and can trade down to acquire more picks, then you do it.  It's the second draft in a row that's not extremely top heavy in perennial pro bowler type guys. 

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7 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

It comes down to how Pace values who's left at 8 and if he considers them a blue chipper.  If he has a similar value at players between 8 and 15 and can trade down to acquire more picks, then you do it.  It's the second draft in a row that's not extremely top heavy in perennial pro bowler type guys. 

Yeah thats true. But if 4  QBs actually go, Barkley, Nelson, and Chubb would all have to be gone before its even a decision imo. The draft isnt too top heavy but that because its diluted with mediocre QBs in a QB feeding frenzy, meaning a top 3 talent could legit fall to 8. 

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1 minute ago, mbuehner said:

Yeah thats true. But if 4  QBs actually go, Barkley, Nelson, and Chubb would all have to be gone before its even a decision imo. The draft isnt too top heavy but that because its diluted with mediocre QBs in a QB feeding frenzy, meaning a top 3 talent could legit fall to 8. 

I'd love Nelson or Smith, but still don't see either of them, or even Chubb, remotely comparable to guys like Bosa, Garrett, Ramsey or Lattimore.   I think they'll come away with a solid player, just probably not like one of those guys. 

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37 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

I'd love Nelson or Smith, but still don't see either of them, or even Chubb, remotely comparable to guys like Bosa, Garrett, Ramsey or Lattimore.   I think they'll come away with a solid player, just probably not like one of those guys. 

Definitely agree with that - however, our defense has the luxury at this point to not even need a 'game-changer' like that. Which makes me like the Smith pick even more.

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17 hours ago, travdogg said:

I disagree with this. Why would a team trade up to #8, when they don't know how the board will fall yet? How is giving up assets to move to #8 not still leaving it up to chance?

Its really really hard to jump up 15 or 20 spots. Can you imagine the Patriots trading with the Giants? What kind of a kings ransom would it take?

But if you can get up in the top 10, then you can talk to a top 5 team, theyre only moving back a couple spots. The sum of what you pay the two teams is less than you would have to pay to do the big move.

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