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flapgreen

***Chicago Bears Thread*** They suck.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Worst Bears move of my lifetime 

The first round pick to Seattle for Rick Mirer in 1997 was worse. He spent one year with the team. He started three games and went 0-3. Or Greg Olsen traded to Carolina for a third in 2011. He had five excellent seasons, and three seasons over 1000 yards in which he made the Pro Bowl. And the Bears are still chasing TE. The Bears have done stupider things.

Edited by twistd
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9 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Worst Bears move of my lifetime 

Come on you gotta be selling us short there.  I guarantee the Bears have done dumber!

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11 minutes ago, twistd said:

I’m wrong. They are showing the cap hit is $20 million in 2021 and 2022. The dead cap this year is $15 million. But you are right, no dead cap after this year. I still think Foles has no upside. Cam or WInston have upside, and I think you could get them for similar money. Even Dalton would be a better option. IMO.

I can agree with that, this is a desperate attempt to have middle of the road QB play for the next year or two.  Cam and Winston probably had more possible downside so they were off the list.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

:no: 

Please stop.

Yeah it's a 1 year flier at worst. At best he defies expectations and they've got a starter for a few years. 

 

Edited by Bears_Man2

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47 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Worst Bears move of my lifetime 

Congrats on your 2nd day of being alive then. 

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I'll be that guy. I mostly like the Foles deal. I mean, I'd have rather ponied up for Brady/Rivers. But the Jags are taking most of the cap hit here, and what is the 140th pick worth? That pick often doesn't ever see the field other than special teams.

Foles is capable of some big time play. He was the MVP of a Super Bowl not long ago. Yes, he's inconsistent, but to say he has no upside is just lazy analysis. He was better than Wentz in Philly for stretches. Not saying I'd rather have him than Wentz, just illustrating that the high upside is 100% there. He's basically a better(and older) version of Winston. 

I'm glad they didn't go down the Cam or Teddy roads. Teddy was the guy who had no upside, and Cam seems like he's just about done physically, which is being echoed around the league by the inaction to his availability. 

I'm not sure there was a long term fix available. Maybe Haskins is Tua goes #2?I very much believe that if Foles were the starter last year, the Bears make the playoffs. Yeah, they probably don't go far, but 10-6 was realistic.

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50 minutes ago, Bears_Man2 said:

Yeah it's a 1 year flier at worst. At best he defies expectations and they've got a starter for a few years. 

 

He is not going to magically morph in to a starter. He had a good run with the Eagles. He has done pretty much nothing outside of that.

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Signing Foles feels like taking your sister to the prom. At least you have a date, but it is nothing to get excited about, and nothing is going to happen.

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1 hour ago, twistd said:

It almost doesn’t matter. Winston has upside. Cam has upside. Even Dalton might have a little upside. Foles has none. It is a lot of money for a guy who can start a few games for you. I don’t think he is a starter. 

"No upside" is an interesting way to describe a SB MVP who has reached his peak under a Reid disciple before. Nagy obviously likes Foles. 

(note: I too think this was a horrible trade, just saying I disagree that Foles has no upside)

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15 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Josh Allen has little chance for improvement in his 3rd season. but Nick Foles is going to change his stripes :lol:

Nick Foles has been a far better passer than Josh Allen. I'd rather have Foles than Allen in a vacuum where they were both paid equally, and were equally available. Not like the Bears were getting Josh Allen for the 140th pick.

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2 hours ago, twistd said:

Except fo the fact that Foles has no upside and you could have gotten Winston, Cam, or Dalton for similar money.

Dalton has upside?

 

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1 hour ago, twistd said:

Signing Foles feels like taking your sister to the prom. At least you have a date, but it is nothing to get excited about, and nothing is going to happen.

Depends on your family tendencies....  but aside from that, I never liked Foles in Philly and thought half his success was random luck, bounced pass, missed Ref call, or a defender mistake.  He never showed me any real talent more than a BU QB/QB3 type.  From all I read, he was a good lockerroom guy, supportive and positive.  But on the field, I would rather have several other players from a NFL or Fantasy perspective.  

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2 hours ago, twistd said:

Signing Foles feels like taking your sister to the prom. At least you have a date, but it is nothing to get excited about, and nothing is going to happen.

No truer words have ever been spoken. 

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3 hours ago, flapgreen said:

Worst Bears move of my lifetime 

At least you're feeling better about Graham now in comparison.

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3 hours ago, twistd said:

Except fo the fact that Foles has no upside and you could have gotten Winston, Cam, or Dalton for similar money.

Winston = Cutler. Cam would be too expensive. Trubisky put up better numbers than Dalton last year. 

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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

Dalton has upside?

 

Considering he has played on the Bengals, yes. He has played behind terrible offensive lines. On a team with one of the most poorly run organizations in the league. They make dumb move after dumb move. And he has had some success despite that. So yes, I believe with weapons, and a solid offensive line, he could be better than he has shown in the past.

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10 minutes ago, 3nOut said:

Winston = Cutler. Cam would be too expensive. Trubisky put up better numbers than Dalton last year. 

I believe that Winston can be a knucklehead. But I also think that he was asked regularly to make very difficult throws, On an offense with no running game, and a poor offensive line. Give him a decent running game, protect him, don’t ask him to throw deep consistently, and you might see a better result. He is young, and has all the tools. It is a matter of is he coachable, and placed in the right system can he succeed. 
 

The number of open opportunities is dwindling. Cam may have to settle. So I think you could get Cam or Winston on a prove it deal, for what you paid for Foles. 
 

I’d like to see Trubisky play up to his capabilities. That would be the best outcome. And then whoever is the back up won’t matter.

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10 minutes ago, twistd said:

Considering he has played on the Bengals, yes. He has played behind terrible offensive lines. On a team with one of the most poorly run organizations in the league. They make dumb move after dumb move. And he has had some success despite that. So yes, I believe with weapons, and a solid offensive line, he could be better than he has shown in the past.

You just described Trubisky.

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8 hours ago, rschroeder1 said:

It gets complicated, but I'm pretty sure that Floyd does count toward the compensatory pick pool because he is now a UFA.  He hasn't been cut, they just declined the fifth year option.

The Floyd release is nullified by the Quinn signing, but that actually is helping the Bears here.  Without the Floyd release, the Quinn signing would negate another free agent release.  So by releasing Floyd and adding Quinn (both former first round picks), the Bears should theoretically be in the about the same situation compensatory pick wise as when they started.  With the caveat that no one knows what the formula really is.

Floyd was released.  He's not part of the comp pick formula.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, twistd said:

Signing Foles feels like taking your sister to the prom. At least you have a date, but it is nothing to get excited about, and nothing is going to happen.

The impression I'm getting here is that some people think something could happen...

Edited by The Frankman
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I feel like such a fool to have ever had faith in this franchise a couple years ago. What am idiot I was

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I'm not optimistic about Foles. He has had nice moments with Philly in the playoffs but that's it. He is a Bear to help Mitch and save the season if it goes off the rails. End of story.

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Not sure I would prefer Cam or Winston.  I think I would prefer better O Linemen. 

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As a Lion fan:bag:  I really don`t think this is a bad move.  Foles can play in the right system.  I think he is an upgrade.  Is Mitch done now or will he stay as a backup?

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I'm OK with the Foles move, personally. That is probably because I just want some competitive football this year.

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5 hours ago, twistd said:

Considering he has played on the Bengals, yes. He has played behind terrible offensive lines. On a team with one of the most poorly run organizations in the league. They make dumb move after dumb move. And he has had some success despite that. So yes, I believe with weapons, and a solid offensive line, he could be better than he has shown in the past.

I agree that they have made dumb moves, but the Bengals have had way better weapons than the Bears with perennial all pro AJ Green.  The offensive line is horrible though. 

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with Foles.   He is known as an incredible teammate as well, which may be a factor with the Trubisky situation. 

 

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3 hours ago, Da Guru said:

As a Lion fan:bag:  I really don`t think this is a bad move.  Foles can play in the right system.  I think he is an upgrade.  Is Mitch done now or will he stay as a backup?

I would guess the bears stick with Mitch to start the season at least.   Not saying they should but that’s what I would guess. 

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I guess I am in the minority here and absolutely love the Bears signings. I think Graham will be great.  Jimmy Graham went from being a pro bowl player to getting injured, losing a step and being mediocre at best.  The only natural progression for him is to return to his pro bowl form like all players do when they get older.  Jimmy Graham's QB was horrible last year and now he is lucky to have 2 great QBs to get him the ball. Is there a better QB situation in the NFL  than Foles/Trubisky. All the free agents are going to flock to Chicago to play with them. 

On a serious note I like Quinn better than Floyd. I really thought Floyd would have a breakout season last year playing with Mack.  I would have signed Floyd to a huge contract if the Bears played the Packers every week. He seemed to show up against them and disappear against everyone else.  

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15 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

Floyd was released.  He's not part of the comp pick formula.

As far as I can tell, compensatory picks do apply for a declined option year ONLY for first-round draft picks.  Not trying to argue, haha.

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/how-a-recent-rule-change-to-comp-pick-formula-could-affect-denver-broncos-decisions-on-players-with-team-options

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20 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

Josh Allen has little chance for improvement in his 3rd season. but Nick Foles is going to change his stripes :lol:

 

Oh look a Packers fan coming into a Bears thread to talk crap.

In other news, water is wet

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22 hours ago, flapgreen said:

Worst Bears move of my lifetime 

I'm 100% convinced you're literally Johnny Drama. I remember you saying you'd quit this forum multiple times and you're still here with the lowest of lows like Facebook right now.

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1 hour ago, rschroeder1 said:

As far as I can tell, compensatory picks do apply for a declined option year ONLY for first-round draft picks.  Not trying to argue, haha.

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/how-a-recent-rule-change-to-comp-pick-formula-could-affect-denver-broncos-decisions-on-players-with-team-options

They didn't decline his 5th year option.  The released him.  They picked up the option last year.

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18 hours ago, twistd said:

I believe that Winston can be a knucklehead. But I also think that he was asked regularly to make very difficult throws, On an offense with no running game, and a poor offensive line. Give him a decent running game, protect him, don’t ask him to throw deep consistently, and you might see a better result. He is young, and has all the tools. It is a matter of is he coachable, and placed in the right system can he succeed. 

No offense but this is the take of someone checking highlights and box scores. I’ve lived in the Tampa area since Winston was drafted and watch all their games, Winston is trash. He has the raw physical ability that most crumby back ups don’t, that’s why he looks good at times. But his mental process and ability to run an offense are garbage tier. When you factor him into your game plan to win, he is in the negative column every time. He will be lucky to carve out a career similar to Fitzpatrick, an over capable back up (sometimes starter) who was incapable of developing the mental tools and decision making to succeed long term at the NFL level. I would not want that for the Bears. At least Foles has had success, I hate the trade for him but you can’t take away Big Dick Nick’s track record in the post season

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21 hours ago, twistd said:

He is not going to magically morph in to a starter. He had a good run with the Eagles. He has done pretty much nothing outside of that.

He magically morphed into a starter for the Eagles...

I dont think Foles is a world beater, but he's an upgrade from Trubiski and has the proven potential to make this a legitimate NFL offense, which is kinda important. You can squint your eyes and see an absolutely dominant pass rush giving the Bears the best defense in the league again, and a competent offense. That was all we ever used to ask for.  If that is the Bears game plan, Foles was a pretty good choice. He comes without the baggage and ups and downs of the other choices out there.

The guy took a team to the Superbowl and won it three seasons ago. Lets not pretend he is just a journeyman off the junk pile that never showed any talent. Yeah, he may end up a total bust, but his resume is a hell of a lot thicker than Mike Glennons was. I think we should let this play out.

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3 minutes ago, mbuehner said:

He magically morphed into a starter for the Eagles...

I dont think Foles is a world beater, but he's an upgrade from Trubiski and has the proven potential to make this a legitimate NFL offense, which is kinda important. You can squint your eyes and see an absolutely dominant pass rush giving the Bears the best defense in the league again, and a competent offense. That was all we ever used to ask for.  If that is the Bears game plan, Foles was a pretty good choice. He comes without the baggage and ups and downs of the other choices out there.

The guy took a team to the Superbowl and won it three seasons ago. Lets not pretend he is just a journeyman off the junk pile that never showed any talent. Yeah, he may end up a total bust, but his resume is a hell of a lot thicker than Mike Glennons was. I think we should let this play out.

Also keep in mind that the price tag of around $15 Million for 2020 with $6 guaranteed in 2021 is cheap compared to Bridgewater, Winston, Newton, Carr, etc. Trading for Foles also doesn't mess with the compensatory formula.

Trubisky walks after 2020 = comp pick

Draft a QB in round 2 in 2020 or Round 1 in 2021.

 

This increases Chicago's contending window, especially with an expanded playoff field starting in 2020. Foles>Trubisky

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55 minutes ago, tdmills said:

I'm 100% convinced you're literally Johnny Drama. I remember you saying you'd quit this forum multiple times and you're still here with the lowest of lows like Facebook right now.

I love Johnny! 

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2 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

I love Johnny! 

Im gonna spend the quarantine binging Viking Quest.

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Just now, mbuehner said:

Im gonna spend the quarantine binging Viking Quest.

VICTORY!!! 

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Pace gets fleeced again by a team doing everything they can to dump a qb they don't want.  Ryan Pace: Hey! I'll give a 4th rounder! Smh

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Vonn Bell and Andrus Peat still out there 

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6 hours ago, gabes1919 said:

No offense but this is the take of someone checking highlights and box scores. I’ve lived in the Tampa area since Winston was drafted and watch all their games, Winston is trash. He has the raw physical ability that most crumby back ups don’t, that’s why he looks good at times. But his mental process and ability to run an offense are garbage tier. When you factor him into your game plan to win, he is in the negative column every time. He will be lucky to carve out a career similar to Fitzpatrick, an over capable back up (sometimes starter) who was incapable of developing the mental tools and decision making to succeed long term at the NFL level. I would not want that for the Bears. At least Foles has had success, I hate the trade for him but you can’t take away Big Dick Nick’s track record in the post season

This is largely the take of Matt Williamson. He was a scout. So chances are he didn’t formulate that looking at box scores and highlights.

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I think I would have preferred the Bears signed Case Keenum. He was signed for $6 million a year. Foles and Keenum are the same guy. But the Bears are paying Foles $15 million a year, and Keenum was a free agent so you wouldn’t have had to give any compensation.

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26 minutes ago, twistd said:

I think I would have preferred the Bears signed Case Keenum. He was signed for $6 million a year. Foles and Keenum are the same guy. But the Bears are paying Foles $15 million a year, and Keenum was a free agent so you wouldn’t have had to give any compensation.

I don’t like the move but I wouldn’t go that far. Foles has had some performances in high pressure spots than Keenum could never dream of having. I do like that the guy has ice water in his veins. Just thinking of him going down the field on our vaunted D in that playoff game two years ago....impressive. 

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7 hours ago, flapgreen said:

Pace gets fleeced again by a team doing everything they can to dump a qb they don't want.  Ryan Pace: Hey! I'll give a 4th rounder! Smh

Not fleeced....you said worst move in team history.

 

Trading a late 4th round pick for a potential starting QB who's won a SB...

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2 hours ago, twistd said:

I think I would have preferred the Bears signed Case Keenum. He was signed for $6 million a year. Foles and Keenum are the same guy. But the Bears are paying Foles $15 million a year, and Keenum was a free agent so you wouldn’t have had to give any compensation.

Even if both were equal(I don't believe they are):

1) Trading for Foles ensures Chicago gets him.

2) Signing a FA QB effects compensation picks

3) Waiting to sign Foles...could be a bidding war. Keenum signed for $6...which meant a bidding war would ensue and it's more likely he's signing for 8-12 to start in Chicago.

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6 hours ago, tdmills said:

Even if both were equal(I don't believe they are):

1) Trading for Foles ensures Chicago gets him.

2) Signing a FA QB effects compensation picks

3) Waiting to sign Foles...could be a bidding war. Keenum signed for $6...which meant a bidding war would ensue and it's more likely he's signing for 8-12 to start in Chicago.

I would think offering Keenum a chance to start would mean he would sign with that team over the Browns if the money was close to even, maybe even a little less.  If I was a Bears fan not sure who i would rather have.

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Steelers just signed Eric Ebron, 2 years 12 million. IE- 2 million less than the Bears gave Graham. :bag:

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