whoknew

The Russia Investigation: 12 Russian Agents Indicted for Hacking Dems

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43 minutes ago, adonis said:

Not if it can be shown that his various interests in Russia will cause him to have a conflict of interest with any dealings with Putin

What would it "being shown" look like to you adonis?  What will you have to see?

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2 minutes ago, Sabertooth said:

Which Bruce Dickison are you?  Iron Maiden or Chris Walken? 

Username was intended to be a tribute to the Walken SNL sketch.  I'm a fan of both, but the concise answer to your question is "Walken".

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Just now, Bruce Dickinson said:

Username was intended to be a tribute to the Walken SNL sketch.  I'm a fan of both, but the concise answer to your question is "Walken".

:kicksrock: 

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1 minute ago, Slapdash said:

That is fine.  

A thread @Rich Conway started a while back had this article in it has a much darker take:  http://www.vox.com/2015/6/29/8845913/russia-war

Curious on your thoughts on it (can't find the thread right now).

I'm familiar with Max Fisher. It's a very scary article. And it's not new- back in the 70s, Jonathan Schell argued that nuclear war is inevitable, that essentially mankind is living in a coda since 1945, and doomed to extinction. Even beyond the current specifics with Russia, the argument made by Schell is simple and terrifying:  we cannot ultimately prevent the spread of nuclear weapons. Eventually there will be a misunderstanding between distrusting nations, and somebody will use nukes. Mankind will not survive. 

I have no good rebuttal to this argument in general, but specifically I don't believe that Putin is the man to start a nuclear war. 

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4 minutes ago, Sabertooth said:

:kicksrock: 

Tough but fair.

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Off topic, but Bruce Dickinson didn't produce "Don't Fear The Reaper". He was just a record label executive whose name had appeared on the back cover of BOC's "Greatest Hits" album, which caused the SNL writers to assume that he produced the song.

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27 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

Off topic, but Bruce Dickinson didn't produce "Don't Fear The Reaper". He was just a record label executive whose name had appeared on the back cover of BOC's "Greatest Hits" album, which caused the SNL writers to assume that he produced the song.

1) I did not know that.  I'm glad I do now.

2) I can't decide if that makes the sketch more or less funny, or no change.

3) anyone who says no one learns anything in the political threads can suck on it

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3 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

Haven't they been discussed (in some circles) for the past 8 years?  We're on to a new president now.  Let's discuss him.

What I meant was, is this bull#### made up by opposition or is it legitimate?  Was this reported by the liberal version of brietbart or is this a legitimate news source?

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4 minutes ago, Kanil said:

What I meant was, is this bull#### made up by opposition or is it legitimate?  Was this reported by the liberal version of brietbart or is this a legitimate news source?

I don't think anyone knows yet.

Pretty sure Schindler isn't a liberal. And the FT is a legit news source. Having said that, there's no smoking gun. 

To me, this seems like something that is worth more investigation, but nothing more at this point. So I hope FT/NYT/WaPo are on it.

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5 minutes ago, whoknew said:

I don't think anyone knows yet.

Pretty sure Schindler isn't a liberal. And the FT is a legit news source. Having said that, there's no smoking gun. 

To me, this seems like something that is worth more investigation, but nothing more at this point. So I hope FT/NYT/WaPo are on it.

Schindler actually works for a site run by Trump's son in law...

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-sanctions-top-putin-ally-alleged-litvinenko-killers-210301848.html

US blacklists Putin ally, alleged Litvinenko killers

ashington (AFP) - The United States on Monday blacklisted Russian President Vladimir Putin's reputed top enforcer and two more Russians alleged to have fatally poisoned ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko in London a decade ago.

The Treasury added the prosecutor and senior investigator Alexander Bastrykin and alleged assassins Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitri Kovtun to the Magnitsky Act sanctions list.

Announcing the decision, the State Department did not elaborate on the new targets or the timing, which comes at a time of heightened tension with Moscow.

President Barack Obama's outgoing administration has accused the Kremlin of using cyber espionage, leaking and propaganda in a bid to influence November's White House race.

Moscow has scornfully rejected the charges, over which Washington has already expelled 35 Russian diplomats allegedly involved in espionage.

Monday's decision zeroes in on a close Putin ally.

Bastrykin is one of the Russian president's most powerful allies and as head of an investigative agency that had led crack downs on domestic dissidents and targeted foreign NGOs and other groups accused of meddling in Russian politics.

British officials have identified Lugovoi and Kovtun as main suspects in the death of Litvinenko, who succumbed to radiation poisoning in London in 2006 after drinking polonium-laced tea.

The Magnitsky Act was originally passed to enable US officials to impose sanctions on Russians implicated in the 2009 prison death of Russian tax fraud whistleblower Sergei Magnitsky.

But more individuals have been blacklisted over the years.

The list now includes 44 names of those whose assets under US jurisdiction are frozen, and who are barred from doing business with Americans or receiving US visas.

The act allows for the designation of those implicated in the murder, torture or persecution of those who reveal corruption in Russia, State Department spokesman John Kirby said.

The US authorities also added two more less well-known Russian officials, Stanislav Gordievsky and Gennady Plaksin, to the list.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I'm familiar with Max Fisher. It's a very scary article. And it's not new- back in the 70s, Jonathan Schell argued that nuclear war is inevitable, that essentially mankind is living in a coda since 1945, and doomed to extinction. Even beyond the current specifics with Russia, the argument made by Schell is simple and terrifying:  we cannot ultimately prevent the spread of nuclear weapons. Eventually there will be a misunderstanding between distrusting nations, and somebody will use nukes. Mankind will not survive. 

I have no good rebuttal to this argument in general, but specifically I don't believe that Putin is the man to start a nuclear war. 

Thanks.  I find the idea (shared by Trump) that we need even greater nuclear capabilities very unnerving. 

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Kind of related. As CEO of Exxon,Tillerson did business with Iran while it was under U.S. Sanctions.

 

The transactions included $53.2 million in sales to Iran over three years.

 

 

ExxonMobil did business with Iran, Syria and Sudan through a European subsidiary while President-elect Donald Trump’s nominee for secretary of State was a top executive of the oil giant and those countries were under U.S. sanctions as state sponsors of terrorism, Securities and Exchange Commissionfilings show.

That business connection is likely to surface Wednesday at a confirmation hearing for ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

The sales were conducted in 2003, 2004 and 2005 by Infineum, in which ExxonMobil owned a 50% share, according to SEC documents unearthed by American Bridge, a Democratic research group.

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1 hour ago, WheelsUp said:

Just tried to look it up and have seen Milania's birth canal, but not her birth certificate.

Michelle was such a disgrace.  Oh wait we don't care about that anymore.   

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I'll post what I did in the last thread about what I think needs to happen:

Investigation and public hearings of the Trump campaign communications with Russia during the campaign. I don't expect there to be any smoking gun that they actively collaborated but the information needs to be publicly aired. This can't be something left to a Trump administration to lead for obvious reasons.

Disclose and divest from all business interests that have Russian connections. I share the Office of Gov't Ethics opinion that he should follow the example of every other modern president and do this for all his holdings, but given the Russian interference on his behalf I think it is especially critical he do this to avoid any potential appearance of conflict.   

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:lol: And they just keep hitting their head against the wall.

Billy Bush crotch grab didn't work

Blatant disrespect for power beaten into the public's head but still no impact. 

Lets keep trying to cast Trump as the devil because eventually it will seep in with folks. 

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1 hour ago, Bucky86 said:

Kind of related. As CEO of Exxon,Tillerson did business with Iran while it was under U.S. Sanctions.

 

The transactions included $53.2 million in sales to Iran over three years.

 

 

ExxonMobil did business with Iran, Syria and Sudan through a European subsidiary while President-elect Donald Trump’s nominee for secretary of State was a top executive of the oil giant and those countries were under U.S. sanctions as state sponsors of terrorism, Securities and Exchange Commissionfilings show.

That business connection is likely to surface Wednesday at a confirmation hearing for ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

The sales were conducted in 2003, 2004 and 2005 by Infineum, in which ExxonMobil owned a 50% share, according to SEC documents unearthed by American Bridge, a Democratic research group.

Off Topic. This is about Russian conspiracies. 

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30 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

:lol: And they just keep hitting their head against the wall.

Billy Bush crotch grab didn't work

Blatant disrespect for power beaten into the public's head but still no impact. 

Lets keep trying to cast Trump as the devil because eventually it will seep in with folks. 

As I wrote, I don't think this is much of a story but I also don't understand how posts like this one contribute to the discussion. You seem to be gloating that Trump won and that his supporters aren't paying attention to his faults. 

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Can't read these threads anymore, but......

 

EMAILS!

 

BENGHAZI!

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32 minutes ago, timschochet said:

As I wrote, I don't think this is much of a story but I also don't understand how posts like this one contribute to the discussion. You seem to be gloating that Trump won and that his supporters aren't paying attention to his faults. 

I'm simply saying that the Left continues to run the same play book much like the GOP did for a long time until it was time to reset the table, apparently.

Also a growing trend by those on the Left or really just anti-Trump in general is a strong desire to cut down the poster which you did with great delight almost gloating about it in your post. 

I didn't direct the comment towards Tim in any way. Also was there not a thread 70 pages long going back to Summer that Bob Magaw had originally launched? Anyone know what happened? 

We have a lot of information already accumulated and then we get Johnny Come Lately who show up and want to own the story, Tim! 

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If it were widely known for a long time Trump has all these connections then why did everyone sell him so short in the media? And why didn't someone blow the lid off this? I guess the crotch grabber angle seemed at the time like it had more teeth and easier Knockout for the HRC Camp?

How did everyone miss this?

There should be a recall effort and full on Civil War, what are we waiting for?

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5 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

If it were widely known for a long time Trump has all these connections then why did everyone sell him so short in the media? And why didn't someone blow the lid off this? I guess the crotch grabber angle seemed at the time like it had more teeth and easier Knockout for the HRC Camp?

How did everyone miss this?

There should be a recall effort and full on Civil War, what are we waiting for?

Exactly my question.  He truly hasn't been vetted to be POTUS.

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4 minutes ago, Eephus said:

Trump's ties were made in China.  This Russia business is another lie from the failing lamestream media.  So sad.

See Eephus I'm afraid what is happening is anything the media wants to report on Trump true or untrue it's all gonna be put out there. A lot of folks will not listen but then you are going to have folks who live in urban sprawls come face to face with a fraction of those folks who doesn't buy into these media driven witch hunts...let me put it another way, give this a few more months as this is the tip of the iceberg...then we will send MoP into the field in a black or minority driven section of Dade or Palm Beach and let's see what happens when He sticks a mic in someone's face and act like he is anti-Trump and want to get their reaction...let the fireworks begin. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain

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Trump talked about Wikileaks something like 160 times in the last month of the election in public appearances.

Now acts like it didn't matter.

This guy :lol:

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6 minutes ago, The General said:

Trump talked about Wikileaks something like 160 times in the last month of the election in public appearances.

Now acts like it didn't matter.

This guy :lol:

You know what is even funnier, HRC had 3 Million more people in the country vote for her :yes: What other country elects a candidate that doesn't have the most votes?

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Just now, Ministry of Pain said:

You know what is even funnier, HRC had 3 Million more people in the country vote for her :yes: What other country elects a candidate that doesn't have the most votes?

A separate issue but yeah that sucks. The system we have though.

 

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1 minute ago, The General said:

A separate issue but yeah that sucks. The system we have though.

 

If you start with the scoreboard 66-63, HRC...isn't anything that follows after sort of brought on by everyone? We obviously didn't learn much in 2000. What will change in 2020/2024?

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I've gone thru this whole thread and not one person has yet posted a picture of Trump's Russian Ties.  Are they better than regular ties?  Do they cost more than the ones you can buy at Kohls?

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19 minutes ago, JIslander said:

Exactly my question.  He truly hasn't been vetted to be POTUS.

I strongly disagree with this.  Trump has been thoroughly vetted.  We know with near-total certainty that he's dangerously unqualified, temperamentally unsuited, and intellectually and ethically unfit to be president.  It's just that a disturbingly large number of people are cool with Trump because he'll stick it to brown people.  But this guy is the most vetted president-elect of all times.  We know what we elected.

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Just now, IvanKaramazov said:

I strongly disagree with this.  Trump has been thoroughly vetted.  We know with near-total certainty that he's dangerously unqualified, temperamentally unsuited, and intellectually and ethically unfit to be president.  It's just that a disturbingly large number of people are cool with Trump because he'll stick it to brown people.  But this guy is the most vetted president-elect of all times.  We know what we elected.

I have posted this before but I will repeat when MOP laughs he hits the like button regardless of who I vote or don't vote for. I thought this was funny, thanks IK.

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27 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

If it were widely known for a long time Trump has all these connections then why did everyone sell him so short in the media? And why didn't someone blow the lid off this? I guess the crotch grabber angle seemed at the time like it had more teeth and easier Knockout for the HRC Camp?

How did everyone miss this?

There should be a recall effort and full on Civil War, what are we waiting for?

It wasn't missed. Plenty of speculation that Russia was the source of the WikiLeaks info but the Intelligence findings weren't released so Trump's explanation of a 400 lb. guy in his mom's basement was more plausible, if never really satisfactory. 

Some in the IC, like FBI Director Comey, argued against publicly naming Russia as it might be perceived as having a late influence on the election. Obama reportedly wanted to do a non-partisan announcement of findings before the election but Mitch McConnell objected and said any official information coming out would be attacked as a partisan attempt to hurt Trump. 

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2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I strongly disagree with this.  Trump has been thoroughly vetted.  We know with near-total certainty that he's dangerously unqualified, temperamentally unsuited, and intellectually and ethically unfit to be president.  It's just that a disturbingly large number of people are cool with Trump because he'll stick it to brown people.  But this guy is the most vetted president-elect of all times.  We know what we elected.

Sure, that's all superficial that yes, most everyone knew -- but what wasn't thoroughly vetted was his finances and connections with Russia (in particular).  We've never had a President like him with his $$ and conflicts spread everywhere and yet did not vett that out as should have been. 

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2 minutes ago, JIslander said:

Sure, that's all superficial that yes, most everyone knew -- but what wasn't thoroughly vetted was his finances and connections with Russia (in particular).  We've never had a President like him with his $$ and conflicts spread everywhere and yet did not vett that out as should have been. 

Okay, fair enough. I agree with you that this stuff should be out there, but I'm pessimistic that it would make any difference considering that this guy should have been disqualified a million times over already.

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9 minutes ago, Arsenal of Doom said:

It wasn't missed. Plenty of speculation that Russia was the source of the WikiLeaks info but the Intelligence findings weren't released so Trump's explanation of a 400 lb. guy in his mom's basement was more plausible, if never really satisfactory. 

Some in the IC, like FBI Director Comey, argued against publicly naming Russia as it might be perceived as having a late influence on the election. Obama reportedly wanted to do a non-partisan announcement of findings before the election but Mitch McConnell objected and said any official information coming out would be attacked as a partisan attempt to hurt Trump. 

Take a picture of Obama and then a recent picture of Mitch McConnell and place them side by side...one guy has a high approval rating and looks healthy, the other is a fat quivering bowl of Jell-O and you are giving that Jell-O way too much credit. 

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10 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Take a picture of Obama and then a recent picture of Mitch McConnell and place them side by side...one guy has a high approval rating and looks healthy, the other is a fat quivering bowl of Jell-O and you are giving that Jell-O way too much credit. 

do you think comparing to desserts is a good way to judge competence of politicians?

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