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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (9 Viewers)

RedmondLonghorn said:
Thanks. 

My operating hypothesis is that Trump owes some debt or allegiance to foreign influence. Whether he provably has committed treason or been a party to a conspiracy is an open question.

Somewhat related is another hypothesis: that his finances are deeply entwined with sources of capital that are extremely irregular and unsavory. Whether he is guilty of financial crimes and/or money laundering is an open question.

Another hypothesis is that while Trump himself may be somewhat insulated from the above, there are many more close to him that are not. We have already seen multiple indictments and a few guilty pleas among associates, some of them close associates.

I am also fairly sure he has provably committed multiple counts of obstruction of justice.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14647u543-8

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
Those databases can't contain who you voted for though, can they? Do they even contain whether you voted?
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Yeah- probably not who you voted for - but that you voted would be a public record.

I am imagining that in this exercise - Cambridge Analytica knew that even a large presidential election turns on a relatively small number of voters in specific states and precincts.  They could probably identify the specific states they wanted to target - PA, OH, WI - and find those precincts where they could flip/suppress enough votes to alter the outcome.  But, even once you narrow that scope - its still a daunting task to figure out who to target specifically, and with what message.  Voter rolls will have voter activity, and in most cases party registration.

I think this is helpful, to focus your campaigns on specific people, with specific voting histories, and with specific party registration in specific precincts, in specific states.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Yeah- probably not who you voted for - but that you voted would be a public record.

I am imagining that in this exercise - Cambridge Analytica knew that even a large presidential election turns on a relatively small number of voters in specific states and precincts.  They could probably identify the specific states they wanted to target - PA, OH, WI - and find those precincts where they could flip/suppress enough votes to alter the outcome.  But, even once you narrow that scope - its still a daunting task to figure out who to target specifically, and with what message.  Voter rolls will have voter activity, and in most cases party registration.

I think this is helpful, to focus your campaigns on specific people, with specific voting histories, and with specific party registration in specific precincts, in specific states.
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Oh, I never meant to imply that I doubted that it would be useful information. But the game changer is the access to the entirety of millions of users FB profiles. Being able to marry that data to voter rolls in a few states probably helps some, in terms of economizing on the micro-targeting, but I don't think it fundamentally alters the potential effectiveness.

 
Really it almost branches off into a free speech and consumer fraud issue. A normal FTC or DOJ, even a Republican one, would be looking to nail FB & CA just on principle.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Really it almost branches off into a free speech and consumer fraud issue. A normal FTC or DOJ, even a Republican one, would be looking to nail FB & CA just on principle.
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Well, in normal times the fact that Bannon was partners with people who admitted on video that they were involved in using dirty tricks for election rigging might be a scandal all by itself.

 
Koya said:
We may want to hold off on voting from home by internet for a bit until we get this current lower tech mess straightened out. 
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Or answering those Facebook quizzes - "What kind of dog would you be?"  "Which Harry Potter character are you?"

"In a statement Saturday, Facebook said Kogan built an app that provided a personality quiz to Facebook users, but the social media giant claims he passed the content onto Cambridge Analytica. That firm then used the data to build "psychographic profiles" about voters. Facebook said it demanded the destruction of the data it acquired, but learned several days ago that it hadn't been destroyed"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joseph-chancellor-facebook-employee-investigation-ties-cambridge-analytica-global-science-research-2018-03-19/

 
lakerstan said:
Or answering those Facebook quizzes - "What kind of dog would you be?"  "Which Harry Potter character are you?"

"In a statement Saturday, Facebook said Kogan built an app that provided a personality quiz to Facebook users, but the social media giant claims he passed the content onto Cambridge Analytica. That firm then used the data to build "psychographic profiles" about voters. Facebook said it demanded the destruction of the data it acquired, but learned several days ago that it hadn't been destroyed"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joseph-chancellor-facebook-employee-investigation-ties-cambridge-analytica-global-science-research-2018-03-19/
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I stopped doing those when I did the Friends quiz and got stuck being Chandler

 
Sammy3469 said:
So Facebook were in CAs offices doing their new audit when the British authorities told them to stand down.
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Look, when you need to make 30 episodes a season, you gonna have a lot of plot twists. 

This script has become so ridiculous it was laughed out of the room by the writers of Quantico. 

 
lakerstan said:
Some states require social security numbers for voter registration.  Now they have your entire credit history and spending patterns.  Sort of gives me other concerns when they start talking about voter ID laws.  Now they have your drivers license too.
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Experian hack, 143 million Americans data stolen

Nothing happened to the executives except one poor sap being charged with insider trading. 

 
Weebs210 said:
I could see it if you were providing legal advice to Trump. You are not, it's okay to admit that you are not putting personal opinion aside for this.
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Aside for what? My one and only point is that, as a defense attorney, I would be advising him to act much differently.  I am putting my personal opinion about Trump aside when I say that. 

I guess as a follow up for you, do you think his actions here are wise?

 
Henry Ford said:
There is no good, moral reason for anyone to want anyone’s sex tape to be released to the public against his or her will.  I’d really prefer that didn’t happen. 
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Position on the public outing of staunchly conservative legislators who regularly try to pass anti-LBGTQ legislation when they're caught soliciting sex with [insert whatever group they legislate against here]?

I agree with you on the not cool to air the actual sex tapes, but I'm torn when it's some social conservative caught doing something he's come out against in legislation. 

 
Reg Lllama of Brixton said:
Who is that and how does it support your statement?
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Carol Davidson, former director of integration and media analytics for Obama in 2012. Read that Time article she posted. They used the same type of “friends of friends” data sets from Facebook to create sophisticated voter profiles that they used to convince swing voters to vote for Obama.

 
BTW - I know there was a bit of shock and awe at how quickly the Brits responded to the news report getting the subpoena and delivering it tonight - but does anyone really think that a company such as Cambridge Analytica, which knowingly operates in some very tenuous legal positions - would still have any incriminating evidence from a 2016 election?

If incriminating evidence ever existed - that evidence is long gone.

 
Sinn Fein said:
BTW - I know there was a bit of shock and awe at how quickly the Brits responded to the news report getting the subpoena and delivering it tonight - but does anyone really think that a company such as Cambridge Analytica, which knowingly operates in some very tenuous legal positions - would still have any incriminating evidence from a 2016 election?

If incriminating evidence ever existed - that evidence is long gone.
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Things happen pretty quickly. I think it was that article that surprised Facebook.

 
Workhorse said:
Carol Davidson, former director of integration and media analytics for Obama in 2012. Read that Time article she posted. They used the same type of “friends of friends” data sets from Facebook to create sophisticated voter profiles that they used to convince swing voters to vote for Obama.
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I think the distinction is voluntary and downloading an app, versus having the data plucked from the back end. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s my perception.

 
Article from the Guardian about Obama’s FB strategy: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obama-digital-data-machine-facebook-election

“Every time an individual volunteers to help out – for instance by offering to host a fundraising party for the president – he or she will be asked to log onto the re-election website with their Facebook credentials. That in turn will engage Facebook Connect, the digital interface that shares a user's personal information with a third party.

Consciously or otherwise, the individual volunteer will be injecting all the information they store publicly on their Facebook page – home location, date of birth, interests and, crucially, network of friends – directly into the central Obama database.”

 
proninja said:
How great would it be if he enjoyed being cuckolded? 
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"Sex workers" is actually a code phrase meaning Russian math and English tutors. The videos are of people trying to instruct Trump in the basics of mathematics and communications - and failing. They couldn't get past the concepts of zero and really, really, tremendously big.

 
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Workhorse said:
Article from the Guardian about Obama’s FB strategy: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obama-digital-data-machine-facebook-election

“Every time an individual volunteers to help out – for instance by offering to host a fundraising party for the president – he or she will be asked to log onto the re-election website with their Facebook credentials. That in turn will engage Facebook Connect, the digital interface that shares a user's personal information with a third party.

Consciously or otherwise, the individual volunteer will be injecting all the information they store publicly on their Facebook page – home location, date of birth, interests and, crucially, network of friends – directly into the central Obama database.”
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This is a very key qualification.

 
Zow said:
Position on the public outing of staunchly conservative legislators who regularly try to pass anti-LBGTQ legislation when they're caught soliciting sex with [insert whatever group they legislate against here]?

I agree with you on the not cool to air the actual sex tapes, but I'm torn when it's some social conservative caught doing something he's come out against in legislation. 
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Depends.  On a lot of factors. Very much a case by case thing for me.  Kind of like someone exposing whether someone had or pushed for an abortion. 

 
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Reactions: Zow
Sinn Fein said:
BTW - I know there was a bit of shock and awe at how quickly the Brits responded to the news report getting the subpoena and delivering it tonight - but does anyone really think that a company such as Cambridge Analytica, which knowingly operates in some very tenuous legal positions - would still have any incriminating evidence from a 2016 election?

If incriminating evidence ever existed - that evidence is long gone.
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I don’t know.  I think there is likely to be a lot of information they’re keeping.  It’s data. That’s gold for this company. 

 
Henry Ford said:
I don’t know.  I think there is likely to be a lot of information they’re keeping.  It’s data. That’s gold for this company. 
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Yeah, its not like they shut down the bot net when they won the election. They're still using that info to target people, and will again in 2020.

 
Henry Ford said:
I don’t know.  I think there is likely to be a lot of information they’re keeping.  It’s data. That’s gold for this company. 
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Yeah, but they know what they do is sketchy - at best.

I think they are smart enough to know when to wipe their hands from a job, and move on like it never existed.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Yeah, but they know what they do is sketchy - at best.

I think they are smart enough to know when to wipe their hands from a job, and move on like it never existed.
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The number one rule of Stupid Watergate is always assume the stupidest scenario is the most likely.

and as an aside, these libertarian tech geeks think all this is perfectly fine.  From Thiel to Sanberg to Dad Mercer on down the line...if the data is out there, it’s fair game.

 
Sammy3469 said:
The number one rule of Stupid Watergate is always assume the stupidest scenario is the most likely.

and as an aside, these libertarian tech geeks think all this is perfectly fine.  From Thiel to Sanberg to Dad Mercer on down the line...if the data is out there, it’s fair game.
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Sure, if all they did was parse some facebook data - I think people will find that unsettling, but not necessarily illegal.

If they are found to be working with the Russian government with US voter roll data, and Russian troll farms, attempting to influence an American election - then I think they would be in a wee bit of trouble.

And, these guys don't sound like guys who like to stay within the boundaries.  I'd be more shocked if they did nothing illegal.  But doing something illegal, and leaving the evidence are two separate things - if you run an election in some ####hole country in Africa - who is coming after you?  If you #### with America - then I think you can expect to get a call at some point - and when you know the call is coming, you don't wait for it to start hiding evidence.

Thats just my view.  I could be wrong.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Then, my uneducated guess is that is where the data lies - at IRA, not CA. 

CA will likely have given it to IRA - unless someone is still paying CA for work on this project....
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I'd be surprised if they're working off 2 year old data at this point. Seems like the language used to discuss the Russian interloping implies that its still going on. Whether CA is still part of it is another question, one I'd imagine Mueller is considering at this point.

 
Henry Ford said:
There is no good, moral reason for anyone to want anyone’s sex tape to be released to the public against his or her will.  I’d really prefer that didn’t happen. 
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Wow Me and Henry agree on something. News Flash:  President Trump likes sex!!  What he or anyone does in their bedrooms is their business. 

 
Mr. Ham said:
Interesting point made on MSNBC...  President, through lawyers, likely received a list of questions from Mueller’s office.  Which makes it plainly hysterical that their response is, “This Investigation never should have been started.”
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I cannot believe Trump’s lawyers are stupid enough to give be Mueller written answers to questions.  If Trump then contradicts himself in questioning or before a grand jury, perjury is much easier to prove.

 
The other interesting aspect of Cambridge Analytica - the acknowledged use of Ukrainian women to put people in compromising positions.

I am sure its a coincidence that Cambridge Analytica was formed in 2013, and that Trump was in Moscow in 2013 - allegedly with Russian (Ukrainian?) hookers peeing on a bed.

Odd timing, that.

 
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