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The Russia Investigation: DOJ Drops Case Against Flynn Even After He Pleads Guilty

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39 minutes ago, adonis said:

I think we're locked into pain for the country until Trump is out of office.  The question is what the best way is to get him out of office.  Getting out in front of investigations completing, likely isn't the best option.  I think that's why Mueller's report is the focus for now, because while a ton of other stuff is in the works, this one is wrapped up and results ready to be released, pending Trump's team actually allowing a report on them to be released.

Death by a thousand cuts. There are literally dozens of cabinet level corruption and ethics stories. 

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4 minutes ago, joffer said:

wow you read fast

I'll trust the conclusion until shown otherwise.

Have fun with it everyone. Keep up the good fight.

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1 minute ago, jamny said:

I'll trust the conclusion until shown otherwise.

Have fun with it everyone. Keep up the good fight.

And then you will find a reason to doubt the credibility of the otherwise.

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1 minute ago, jamny said:

I'll trust the conclusion until shown otherwise.

Have fun with it everyone. Keep up the good fight.

Collusion is not even a legal term. Why is he talking about it as attorney general? 

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Must be nice to be president and have the Attorney General you selected for this purpose run cover for an investigation into you.

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Just now, avoiding injuries said:

What a waste of time and money this 2 year escapade was. 

True if we weren’t ever going to get the report anyway.

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Just now, adonis said:

Must be nice to be president and have the Attorney General you selected for this purpose run cover for an investigation into you.

Even nicer to have a couple of SC Justices in your back pocket...

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Collusion is not even a legal term. Why is he talking about it as attorney general? 

Because that is what Trump wanted...

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26 minutes ago, jomar said:

I like how Barr says that no Americans KNOWINGLY cooperated with the Russians and we should all be relieved at that

Yet, Trump was given information by the intelligence community that this was going on EARLY in his campaign.  Yet he seems to have ignored the information, and been (perhaps) a willing dupe.

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1 minute ago, The Dude said:

And then you will find a reason to doubt the credibility of the otherwise.

Wrong. I've always been open to the possibility of collusion, especially after the Trump Tower meeting. I had serious concerns after that and said I would go along with the Mueller report. Had he proved collusion, I would have been totally on board with whatever outcome that would have caused. I trusted Mueller and until shown otherwise, it seems he ruled out collusion.

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Twitter -

@ameliatd - This is an extraordinary way to contextualize the obstruction section of the report. Essentially framing Trump as a victim of the law enforcement community and the media as he entered office, and using that to frame the obstruction evidence.

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5 minutes ago, The General said:

Bill Barr running PR for Trump.

Very good pick for AG by Trump.

I’d rather Bill Burr

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I'm not sure "you are being mean to me" is an accepted defense to obstruction of justice.

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18 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Totally clear 

Apparently if you define coordination/conspiracy as participating in the actual hacking. Not even the most slavish Trumpite made that argument.

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It's all just so absurd and we don't see the pure absurdity of it in full because we've been deep in this every day for the entirety of the process.  History books summarizing this period will show an amount of absurdity on the part of Trump and his team against the American government, the selected tweets will show how ridiculous this is, and it will be an incredibly ridiculous and embarassing period of time in American history. 

I'm embarassed that our country is putting up with this.

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13 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

What a waste of time and money this 2 year escapade was. 

It made money. I’m just asking if you know that, not sure you do.

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38 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

"knowing assistance" = "unwitting dupe"

I think the reporter questioning on this point blew it. Barr asked her for precedent and she froze. Nixon was subpoenaed in Watergate and Clinton testifies in Whitewater - Meanwhile Trump wasn’t compelled to interview or testify and it’s much harder to prove intent without testimony.

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1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Apparently if you define coordination/conspiracy as participating in the actual hacking. Not even the most slavish Trumpite made that argument.

I would bet dollars to doughnuts that there's evidence that Wikileaks was the conduit between Russia and the Trump campaign but existing laws don't make that coordination illegal per se. Barr was very slippery in making that point in a roundabout way in the press conference. I would imagine Mueller will be asked about that next month.

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12 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

What a waste of time and money this 2 year escapade was. 

FWIW, even if this completely exonerated the president of any wrongdoing, criminal or not, it would not be a waste of time and money. People had legitimate questions that needed to be answered. That was the purpose of the investigation, not "getting the president," regardless of the messaging from some people on both sides of this. If there had been no Mueller investigation after Comey was fired and Trump admitted he did it because of Russia, the anger and discord in this country would be far greater than it is today, hard as that may be to believe. 

Also I have no idea why you think it was a waste of money. It cost, like, nothing. In fact I think it might have made money for the government due to forfeitures.

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I think this is the best possible result for the Democrats: not enough evidence to impeach Trump (which would fail and make him a victim) but enough to make him look terrible. Pelosi couldn’t have hoped for anything better.

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3 minutes ago, adonis said:

It's all just so absurd and we don't see the pure absurdity of it in full because we've been deep in this every day for the entirety of the process.  History books summarizing this period will show an amount of absurdity on the part of Trump and his team against the American government, the selected tweets will show how ridiculous this is, and it will be an incredibly ridiculous and embarassing period of time in American history. 

I'm embarassed that our country is putting up with this.

It's a country built on freedom by the hands of slaves.  We're not the most self-aware culture on the planet.

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Just now, timschochet said:

I think this is the best possible result for the Democrats: not enough evidence to impeach Trump (which would fail and make him a victim) but enough to make him look terrible. Pelosi couldn’t have hoped for anything better.

Based on what Barr said, it goes to Congress now.

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2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

It made money. I’m just asking if you know that, not sure you do.

It could have made more money if the focus was on Manafort and not politically charged BS.

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Just now, Blick said:

It could have made more money if the focus was on Manafort and not politically charged BS.

It made most of the money off Manafort, but there is more to come when Gates is sentenced.

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10 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

It's a country built on freedom by the hands of slaves.  We're not the most self-aware culture on the planet.

I think one of the many interesting outcomes of the Trump Presidency is that it has gotten a lot of people very interested in current events/politics who have little to no understanding of history. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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11 minutes ago, BroncoFreak_2K3 said:

Lots of butt hurt in here yeesh 

Correct me if I’m wrong but it sounded like Barr said Trump and his campaign unknowingly - stupidly - participated in a Russian active measures operation. Maybe you feel good about that, I have no idea why you would though.

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7 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Hate to say it, but Rosenstein shouldn’t have stuck around. He was basically a prop shield out there.

I'm honestly unclear where the guy stands. 

He's supposed to be a man of extreme principles. So are we therefore to assume he agrees with everything Barr just said? If not, why stand there?

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3 minutes ago, Blick said:

It could have made more money if the focus was on Manafort and not politically charged BS.

1. Why would a special counsel probe have been set up specifically for Manafort?

2. Do you believe the Trump DOJ would have gone after Manafort?

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I think this is the best possible result for the Democrats: not enough evidence to impeach Trump (which would fail and make him a victim) but enough to make him look terrible. Pelosi couldn’t have hoped for anything better.

But he already looks terrible and 90% of republicans don't care. I believe that nothing short of a felony conviction moves the needle more than a couple %.

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4 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I think one of the many interesting outcomes of the Trump Presidency is that it has gotten a lot of people very interested in current events/politics who have little to know understanding of history. 

or grammar:P

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3 minutes ago, prefontaine said:

I'm honestly unclear where the guy stands. 

He's supposed to be a man of extreme principles. So are we therefore to assume he agrees with everything Barr just said? If not, why stand there?

It’s really complex. He wrote the memo on Comey, but he also appointed Mueller. He safeguarded the investigation but he also stood there like a big wooden cutout while standards were violated. Supposedly the same guy who backs Barr on ‘intent’ wanted to round up votes on the 25th Amendment. No idea.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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1 minute ago, prefontaine said:

I'm honestly unclear where the guy stands. 

He's supposed to be a man of extreme principles. So are we therefore to assume he agrees with everything Barr just said? If not, why stand there?

One of the failures of the media coverage of this entire saga has been the branding and rebranding of the players.  Rosenstein was appointed by Trump.  He's not a bad guy or anything, but he's a career DOJ guy, not some crusader.  For a Trump appointee he's basically a saint in human form.  But that's not saying much.

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1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Well he’s still going, yes perhaps this is standard for the narcissistic presidency.

His newest one is good though

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3 minutes ago, prefontaine said:

or grammar:P

I doubt I have ever made a single post on here without a spelling or grammar error. 

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5 minutes ago, Blick said:

It could have made more money if the focus was on Manafort and not politically charged BS.

If you don't understand why a special counsel investigation was necessary to restore American's trust in their government after the president of the United States leaned on the FBI director to back off his national security adviser, then fired said FBI director months after deciding to retain him, then admitted it was done because of "Russia," all the while denying the clear conclusions of the entire US intelligence community that Russia hacked and released the private email communications of American citizens (an activity he encouraged on the campaign trail), I don't know what to tell you.

Investigations are investigations. They're not prosecutions. Even if an investigation doesn't end with prosecutions (although this one obviously did), that doesn't make them "BS."

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Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

It’s really complex. He wrote the memo on Comey, but he also appointed Mueller. He safeguarded the investigation but he also stood there like a big wooden cutout while standard were violated. Supposedly the same guy who backs Barr on ‘intent’ wanted to round up votes on the 25th Amendment. No idea.

Yeah, it's really hard to judge everyone in this giant soap opera because each person has their own perspective and motives. RR is maybe the most interesting to me because he seems like such an indecipherable figure who is in the middle of everything. 

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Its interesting to think how Barr will be remembered in history. Between this and Iran-Contra, I reckon his reputation will be one of coverup and obfuscation guy for corrupt governments. The worst kind of AG. One that would normally be despised by ren and Glenn Greenwald.

But ... politics makes strange bedfellows. We shall see.

Edited by whoknew
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8 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but it sounded like Barr said Trump and his campaign unknowingly - stupidly - participated in a Russian active measures operation. Maybe you feel good about that, I have no idea why you would though.

Despite warnings from our intelligence community that this was going on.  And after it happened, he denied any involvement with Russians, and dismissed the intelligence community's views that it happened, and he attacked the intelligence community as a whole.

It's sooo much more than just being an idiot.

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Just now, jamny said:

His newest one is good though

I haven’t checked yet but his team does have good graphics if you get past the insipidity and dangerous themes. 

Pretty much everything he does is a brand or slogan for selling and I do agree he’s good at that. What that means as a mold for future presidencies is a different subject. We’ve had a pretty bad flaw in our system exploited.

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1 minute ago, whoknew said:

Its interesting to think how Barr will be remembered in history. Between this and Iran-Contra, I reckon his reputation will be one of coverup and obfuscation guy for corrupt governments. The worst kind of AG. One that would normally be despised by ren and Glenn Greenwald.

But ... politics makes strange bedfellows. We shall see.

He made around $1.2 million at Kirkland last year IIRC. It’s been worth it to him.

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1 minute ago, whoknew said:

Its interesting to think how Barr will go down in history. Between this and Iran-Contra, I reckon his reputation will be one of coverup and obfuscation guy for corrupt governments. The worst kind of AG. One that would normally be despised by ren and Glenn Greenwald.

But ... politics makes strange bedfellows. We shall see.

So he will be Ollie North and G Gordon Liddy. He turned out fine for at least half of people

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23 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

What a waste of time and money this 2 year escapade was. 

Not a waste if you’re a Democrat, this ridiculous investigation won you back the house in 2018.  I see some Democrats already lashing out at Mueller when they should be greatful.  It probably took one week to not find any collusion yet he drags it out for 2 years.  

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It's quite astonishing to me that people are celebrating that their guy was essentially a useful idiot to Putin.  In today's world, that's scarier than knowingly being a part of it.  I see why Putin had to use him this way as he'd just blab everything in one of his stump speeches, so I understand the approach.  What is lost on me is why people think this is acceptable.

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1 minute ago, adonis said:

Despite warnings from our intelligence community that this was going on.  And after it happened, he denied any involvement with Russians, and dismissed the intelligence community's views that it happened, and he attacked the intelligence community as a whole.

It's sooo much more than just being an idiot.

After hearing Barr today I’m thinking the conspiracy/coordination determination was based on the same home cooked evaluation of intent as the obstruction charge. I was really shocked by that. It goes to Congress and the people now.

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