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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (12 Viewers)

Sorry for the #####ing here, but I'll keep it in this thread.

It's incredibly disheartening to see the Russia stuff, with collusion, obstruction of justice, and just wholly unethical behavior on the part of our President, get swept under the rug due to politics.

Our nation has something over much of the rest of the world.  We're not a corrupt country.  We have a reasonable history of holding elected officials to high standards.  And this tradition is in incredible jeopardy right now.

Rule of law is not ruling right now.  We have a President and a DOJ openly defying lawfull orders.  We have a president who we know, if he were not POTUS and granted whatever special privileges DOJ believes he has, that he'd be indicted and likely go to trial for criminal behavior.  We have an AG who basically has set himself above the law.

What the hell guys?  Are we a nation of laws or aren't we?  Does it mean anything to be unethical anymore?  Is there no price to be paid for bad behavior? For incompetency?  For lying?  For commiting crimes? Ignoring the law?

That's where we are right now.  Trump has taken us there, as a country, and far too many of us are cheering as he drives us further away from our national character.

 
adonis said:
Sorry for the #####ing here, but I'll keep it in this thread.

It's incredibly disheartening to see the Russia stuff, with collusion, obstruction of justice, and just wholly unethical behavior on the part of our President, get swept under the rug due to politics.

Our nation has something over much of the rest of the world.  We're not a corrupt country.  We have a reasonable history of holding elected officials to high standards.  And this tradition is in incredible jeopardy right now.

Rule of law is not ruling right now.  We have a President and a DOJ openly defying lawfull orders.  We have a president who we know, if he were not POTUS and granted whatever special privileges DOJ believes he has, that he'd be indicted and likely go to trial for criminal behavior.  We have an AG who basically has set himself above the law.

What the hell guys?  Are we a nation of laws or aren't we?  Does it mean anything to be unethical anymore?  Is there no price to be paid for bad behavior? For incompetency?  For lying?  For commiting crimes? Ignoring the law?

That's where we are right now.  Trump has taken us there, as a country, and far too many of us are cheering as he drives us further away from our national character.
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The last line of defense is voting. People have to turn out. Dems need to pay more attention to the Senate races. They are absolutely critical. 

 
Don't Noonan said:
Trump is a liar too, most politicians are.  Schiff is far more of a liar though.
Click to expand...
Fascinating. Thanks for responding, I thought you might not. If you don’t mind digging deeper, I’m curious about your perceptions of 1) a typical American, 2) a typical politician, 3) Adam Schiff and 4) President Trump on a lying scale. I wish we had Offdee, but short of that: on a scale of 1 to 10 with ten being “middle name is ‘pants on fire’” and one being a Lawful Good Paladin, how would you rank those four people? Again, thanks, and I am happy to give you my rankings if you like.

 
Daywalker said:
I get lost in the double negative word salad.

What exactly did Meuller say about the OLC with regards to obstruction?
Click to expand...


Daywalker said:
Flush out the meuller/liu exchange for me.
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Here's the situation - obstruction as a crime requires three elements: 1. obstructive act, 2. criminal intent, and 3. a nexus of the act and some official proceeding.

And as you likely know the Mueller report lays out at least 10 obstructive acts this way, explaining how each has an obstructive act, the criminal intent, and the nexus of the two to a public proceeding, and the arguments and permutations of those. 

So Lieu walked Mueller through one of the stronger examples, where Trump ordered McGahn to fire Mueller. 

Mueller indeed agreed with Lieu that one by one each of the elements existed in that instance. So naturally Lieu asked Mueller to simply agree that yes of course criminal obstruction had taken place and that Mueller would have indicted Trump for that if not for the DOJ policy prohibiting it. Which Mueller did.

It would have been better if Lieu had simply stopped at confirming that the three elements of the crime had been met rather than blending in the point about the OLC memo, but regardless the point was made.

LIEU: OK. I’d like to direct you to page 97 of Volume 2 of your report, and you wrote there on page 97, quote, “Sessions was being instructed to tell the special counsel to end the existing investigation into the president and his campaign,” unquote. That’s in the report, correct?

MUELLER: Correct.

LIEU: That would be evidence of an obstructive act because it would naturally obstruct their investigation, correct?

MUELLER: Correct.

LIEU: OK. Let’s turn now to the second element of the crime of obstruction of justice which requires a nexus to an official proceeding. Again, I’m going to direct you to page 97, the same page of Volume 2. And you wrote, quote, “by the time of the president’s initial one-on-one meeting with Lewandowski on June 19, 2017, the existence of a grand jury investigation supervised by the special counsel was public knowledge.” That’s in the report, correct?

MUELLER: Correct.

LIEU: That would constitute evidence of a nexus to an official proceeding because a grand jury investigation is an official proceeding, correct?

MUELLER: Yes.

LIEU: OK. I’d like to now turn to the final element of the crime of obstruction to justice. On that same page, page 97, do you see where there is the intent section on that page?

MUELLER: I do see that.

LIEU: All right. Would you be willing to read the first sentence?

MUELLER: And that was starting with...

LIEU: Substantial evidence.

MUELLER: Indicates that the president...

LIEU: If you read that first sentence, would you be willing to do that?

MUELLER: I’m happy to have you read it.

LIEU: OK. I will read it. You wrote, quote, “substantial evidence indicates that the president’s effort to have Sessions limit the scope of the special counsel’s investigation be featuring (ph) election interference was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny of the president and his campaign’s conduct,” unquote. That’s in the report, correct?

MUELLER: That is in the report, and I rely what’s in the report to indicate what’s happened in the paragraphs that we’ve been discussing.

LIEU: Thank you. So to recap what we’ve heard, we have heard today that the president ordered former White House Counsel, Don McGahn, to fire you. The president ordered Don McGahn to then cover that up and create a false paper trail. And now we’ve heard the president ordered Corey Lewandowski to tell Jeff Sessions to limit your investigation so that he -- you stop investigating the president.

I believe any reasonable person looking at these facts could conclude that all three elements of the crime of obstruction of justice have been met. And I’d like to ask you the reason, again, that you did not indict Donald Trump is because of OLC opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct?

MUELLER: That is correct.


 

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Here's the situation - obstruction as a crime requires three elements: 1. obstructive act, 2. criminal intent, and 3. a nexus of the act and intent.

And as you likely know the Mueller report lays out at least 10 obstructive acts this way, explaining how each has an obstructive act, the criminal intent, and the nexus of the two, and the arguments and permutations of those. 

So Lieu walked Mueller through one of the stronger examples, where Trump ordered McGahn to fire Mueller. 

Mueller indeed agreed with Lieu that one by one each of the elements existed in that instance. So naturally Lieu asked Mueller to simply agree that yes of course criminal obstruction had taken place and that Mueller would have indicted Trump for that if not for the DOJ policy prohibiting it. Which Mueller did.

LIEU: OK. I’d like to direct you to page 97 of Volume 2 of your report, and you wrote there on page 97, quote, “Sessions was being instructed to tell the special counsel to end the existing investigation into the president and his campaign,” unquote. That’s in the report, correct?

MUELLER: Correct.

LIEU: That would be evidence of an obstructive act because it would naturally obstruct their investigation, correct?

MUELLER: Correct.

LIEU: OK. Let’s turn now to the second element of the crime of obstruction of justice which requires a nexus to an official proceeding. Again, I’m going to direct you to page 97, the same page of Volume 2. And you wrote, quote, “by the time of the president’s initial one-on-one meeting with Lewandowski on June 19, 2017, the existence of a grand jury investigation supervised by the special counsel was public knowledge.” That’s in the report, correct?

MUELLER: Correct.

LIEU: That would constitute evidence of a nexus to an official proceeding because a grand jury investigation is an official proceeding, correct?

MUELLER: Yes.

LIEU: OK. I’d like to now turn to the final element of the crime of obstruction to justice. On that same page, page 97, do you see where there is the intent section on that page?

MUELLER: I do see that.

LIEU: All right. Would you be willing to read the first sentence?

MUELLER: And that was starting with...

LIEU: Substantial evidence.

MUELLER: Indicates that the president...

LIEU: If you read that first sentence, would you be willing to do that?

MUELLER: I’m happy to have you read it.

LIEU: OK. I will read it. You wrote, quote, “substantial evidence indicates that the president’s effort to have Sessions limit the scope of the special counsel’s investigation be featuring (ph) election interference was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny of the president and his campaign’s conduct,” unquote. That’s in the report, correct?

MUELLER: That is in the report, and I rely what’s in the report to indicate what’s happened in the paragraphs that we’ve been discussing.

LIEU: Thank you. So to recap what we’ve heard, we have heard today that the president ordered former White House Counsel, Don McGahn, to fire you. The president ordered Don McGahn to then cover that up and create a false paper trail. And now we’ve heard the president ordered Corey Lewandowski to tell Jeff Sessions to limit your investigation so that he -- you stop investigating the president.

I believe any reasonable person looking at these facts could conclude that all three elements of the crime of obstruction of justice have been met. And I’d like to ask you the reason, again, that you did not indict Donald Trump is because of OLC opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct?

MUELLER: That is correct.


  Reveal hidden contents
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Yeah but Mueller looked bad so none of this matters. "Exoneration! Stupid libs!!!".

 
And it's also true that all of this already exists in the report, so sure Trump & Pals can bang the table about 'no obstruction', but there it is as many as 10 instances where Mueller lays out all three elements of the crime as all existing.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
And it's also true that all of this already exists in the report, so sure Trump & Pals can bang the table about 'no obstruction', but there it is as many as 10 instances where Mueller lays out all three elements of the crime as all existing.
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As a reminder, the last 2 presidential impeachment proceedings included obstruction of justice. Here are 10 detailed instances with substantial evidence against our current president.

Also, multiple countries are actively engaging in election interference and this administration is not only complacent but actively moving to block attempts to protect our democracy.

Oh, and THEY'RE the ones who call themselves "patriots".

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Here's the situation - obstruction as a crime requires three elements: 1. obstructive act, 2. criminal intent, and 3. a nexus of the act and some official proceeding.

And as you likely know the Mueller report lays out at least 10 obstructive acts this way, explaining how each has an obstructive act, the criminal intent, and the nexus of the two to a public proceeding, and the arguments and permutations of those. 

So Lieu walked Mueller through one of the stronger examples, where Trump ordered McGahn to fire Mueller. 

Mueller indeed agreed with Lieu that one by one each of the elements existed in that instance. So naturally Lieu asked Mueller to simply agree that yes of course criminal obstruction had taken place and that Mueller would have indicted Trump for that if not for the DOJ policy prohibiting it. Which Mueller did.

It would have been better if Lieu had simply stopped at confirming that the three elements of the crime had been met rather than blending in the point about the OLC memo, but regardless the point was made.

LIEU: OK. I’d like to direct you to page 97 of Volume 2 of your report, and you wrote there on page 97, quote, “Sessions was being instructed to tell the special counsel to end the existing investigation into the president and his campaign,” unquote. That’s in the report, correct?

MUELLER: Correct.

LIEU: That would be evidence of an obstructive act because it would naturally obstruct their investigation, correct?

MUELLER: Correct.

LIEU: OK. Let’s turn now to the second element of the crime of obstruction of justice which requires a nexus to an official proceeding. Again, I’m going to direct you to page 97, the same page of Volume 2. And you wrote, quote, “by the time of the president’s initial one-on-one meeting with Lewandowski on June 19, 2017, the existence of a grand jury investigation supervised by the special counsel was public knowledge.” That’s in the report, correct?

MUELLER: Correct.

LIEU: That would constitute evidence of a nexus to an official proceeding because a grand jury investigation is an official proceeding, correct?

MUELLER: Yes.

LIEU: OK. I’d like to now turn to the final element of the crime of obstruction to justice. On that same page, page 97, do you see where there is the intent section on that page?

MUELLER: I do see that.

LIEU: All right. Would you be willing to read the first sentence?

MUELLER: And that was starting with...

LIEU: Substantial evidence.

MUELLER: Indicates that the president...

LIEU: If you read that first sentence, would you be willing to do that?

MUELLER: I’m happy to have you read it.

LIEU: OK. I will read it. You wrote, quote, “substantial evidence indicates that the president’s effort to have Sessions limit the scope of the special counsel’s investigation be featuring (ph) election interference was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny of the president and his campaign’s conduct,” unquote. That’s in the report, correct?

MUELLER: That is in the report, and I rely what’s in the report to indicate what’s happened in the paragraphs that we’ve been discussing.

LIEU: Thank you. So to recap what we’ve heard, we have heard today that the president ordered former White House Counsel, Don McGahn, to fire you. The president ordered Don McGahn to then cover that up and create a false paper trail. And now we’ve heard the president ordered Corey Lewandowski to tell Jeff Sessions to limit your investigation so that he -- you stop investigating the president.

I believe any reasonable person looking at these facts could conclude that all three elements of the crime of obstruction of justice have been met. And I’d like to ask you the reason, again, that you did not indict Donald Trump is because of OLC opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct?

MUELLER: That is correct.


  Hide contents
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My favorite part is Lieu stating to Mueller "you wrote" when it has become clear as day he did not write this report.   :lol:

 
bananafish said:
My favorite part is Mueller testifying that Russian interference in our elections is one of the biggest threats to our country he's ever seen and that it continues to this day. This after he was George W's FBI Director who took office one week before 9/11 after being confirmed 98-0, which is only part of his 40-something years in law enforcement which he entered after volunteering to serve as a Marine in Vietnam, for which he received the Bronze Star and Purple Heart and was inducted into the Ranger Hall of Fame.

Of course he's been trashed and accused of being un-American by Republicans and the President, which came after he bent over backwards to be fair to the President, being one of the few people left in the country to take non-partisanship seriously. 

Wait, it gets better: the very same day as Mueller's testimony McConnell blocked two bipartisan election protection bills from coming to the floor in the Senate, using the Russian Hoax line we've all come to love as justification. 

But wait there's more! The next day (yesterday) the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee released the first of five volumes of their findings from their investigation into Russian election interference which gravely stated that it was even worse than we thought, with the voting systems of all 50 states having been infiltrated. 

The best best part is Mueller being obviously guilty of The Worst Presidential Harrassment/Witchhunt in history because he didn't renew his membership at one of Trump's golf courses in the 80's.

Say it with me now:

No Obstruction/No Collusion/Total Exoneration!

It really takes the edge off losing your country. 
Click to expand...
"Mueller looked old!!1!"

 
bananafish said:
My favorite part is Mueller testifying that Russian interference in our elections is one of the biggest threats to our country he's ever seen and that it continues to this day. This after he was George W's FBI Director who took office one week before 9/11 after being confirmed 98-0, which is only part of his 40-something years in law enforcement which he entered after volunteering to serve as a Marine in Vietnam, for which he received the Bronze Star and Purple Heart and was inducted into the Ranger Hall of Fame.

Of course he's been trashed and accused of being un-American by Republicans and the President, which came after he bent over backwards to be fair to the President, being one of the few people left in the country to take non-partisanship seriously. 

Wait, it gets better: the very same day as Mueller's testimony McConnell blocked two bipartisan election protection bills from coming to the floor in the Senate, using the Russian Hoax line we've all come to love as justification. 

But wait there's more! The next day (yesterday) the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee released the first of five volumes of their findings from their investigation into Russian election interference which gravely stated that it was even worse than we thought, with the voting systems of all 50 states having been infiltrated. 

The best best part is Mueller being obviously guilty of The Worst Presidential Harrassment/Witchhunt in history because he didn't renew his membership at one of Trump's golf courses in the 80's.

Say it with me now:

No Obstruction/No Collusion/Total Exoneration!

It really takes the edge off losing your country. 
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Very well said.

 
bananafish said:
My favorite part is Mueller testifying that Russian interference in our elections is one of the biggest threats to our country he's ever seen and that it continues to this day. This after he was George W's FBI Director who took office one week before 9/11 after being confirmed 98-0, which is only part of his 40-something years in law enforcement which he entered after volunteering to serve as a Marine in Vietnam, for which he received the Bronze Star and Purple Heart and was inducted into the Ranger Hall of Fame.

Of course he's been trashed and accused of being un-American by Republicans and the President, which came after he bent over backwards to be fair to the President, being one of the few people left in the country to take non-partisanship seriously. 

Wait, it gets better: the very same day as Mueller's testimony McConnell blocked two bipartisan election protection bills from coming to the floor in the Senate, using the Russian Hoax line we've all come to love as justification. 

But wait there's more! The next day (yesterday) the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee released the first of five volumes of their findings from their investigation into Russian election interference which gravely stated that it was even worse than we thought, with the voting systems of all 50 states having been infiltrated. 

The best best part is Mueller being obviously guilty of The Worst Presidential Harrassment/Witchhunt in history because he didn't renew his membership at one of Trump's golf courses in the 80's.

Say it with me now:

No Obstruction/No Collusion/Total Exoneration!

It really takes the edge off losing your country. 
Click to expand...
Its happening right before our eyes. And then they gaslight you and tell you you're not seeing what you're seeing. Never believed it would happen in America. 

 
bananafish said:
My favorite part is Mueller testifying that Russian interference in our elections is one of the biggest threats to our country he's ever seen and that it continues to this day. This after he was George W's FBI Director who took office one week before 9/11 after being confirmed 98-0, which is only part of his 40-something years in law enforcement which he entered after volunteering to serve as a Marine in Vietnam, for which he received the Bronze Star and Purple Heart and was inducted into the Ranger Hall of Fame.

Of course he's been trashed and accused of being un-American by Republicans and the President, which came after he bent over backwards to be fair to the President, being one of the few people left in the country to take non-partisanship seriously. 

Wait, it gets better: the very same day as Mueller's testimony McConnell blocked two bipartisan election protection bills from coming to the floor in the Senate, using the Russian Hoax line we've all come to love as justification. 

But wait there's more! The next day (yesterday) the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee released the first of five volumes of their findings from their investigation into Russian election interference which gravely stated that it was even worse than we thought, with the voting systems of all 50 states having been infiltrated. 

The best best part is Mueller being obviously guilty of The Worst Presidential Harrassment/Witchhunt in history because he didn't renew his membership at one of Trump's golf courses in the 80's.

Say it with me now:

No Obstruction/No Collusion/Total Exoneration!

It really takes the edge off losing your country. 
Click to expand...
Post of the month.   

 
pecorino said:
Fascinating. Thanks for responding, I thought you might not. If you don’t mind digging deeper, I’m curious about your perceptions of 1) a typical American, 2) a typical politician, 3) Adam Schiff and 4) President Trump on a lying scale. I wish we had Offdee, but short of that: on a scale of 1 to 10 with ten being “middle name is ‘pants on fire’” and one being a Lawful Good Paladin, how would you rank those four people? Again, thanks, and I am happy to give you my rankings if you like.
Click to expand...
My rankings: typical American (3), typical politician (6), Adam Schiff (6), Donald Trump (10). 

 
The Committee's investigation into other aspects of Russia's interference in the 2016 election will be included in subsequent chapters. I look forward to reviewing those chapters and hope that outstanding concerns about members' Committee staff access to investigative material, including non-compartmented and unclassified information, will be resolved.
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- Sen. Wyden points out in the Senate Intel's Vol. I report that Senate Intel still hadn't received requested investigative material at the time of its completion. 

 
bananafish said:
My favorite part is Mueller testifying that Russian interference in our elections is one of the biggest threats to our country he's ever seen and that it continues to this day. This after he was George W's FBI Director who took office one week before 9/11 after being confirmed 98-0, which is only part of his 40-something years in law enforcement which he entered after volunteering to serve as a Marine in Vietnam, for which he received the Bronze Star and Purple Heart and was inducted into the Ranger Hall of Fame.

Of course he's been trashed and accused of being un-American by Republicans and the President, which came after he bent over backwards to be fair to the President, being one of the few people left in the country to take non-partisanship seriously. 

Wait, it gets better: the very same day as Mueller's testimony McConnell blocked two bipartisan election protection bills from coming to the floor in the Senate, using the Russian Hoax line we've all come to love as justification. 

But wait there's more! The next day (yesterday) the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee released the first of five volumes of their findings from their investigation into Russian election interference which gravely stated that it was even worse than we thought, with the voting systems of all 50 states having been infiltrated. 

The best best part is Mueller being obviously guilty of The Worst Presidential Harrassment/Witchhunt in history because he didn't renew his membership at one of Trump's golf courses in the 80's.

Say it with me now:

No Obstruction/No Collusion/Total Exoneration!

It really takes the edge off losing your country. 
Click to expand...
Not one rebuttal to any of your points nor any snide remarks in 22 hours. That is quite odd.

 
Mario Kart said:
Not one rebuttal to any of your points nor any snide remarks in 22 hours. That is quite odd.
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Republicans haven't rebutted any of the central crimes and claims recounted in the Mueller report:

  • Russians interfered with the election to help Trump.
  • The Trump campaign was aware of it.
  • They didn't report those efforts to law enforcement.
  • They accepted that help and used it in their strategic planning.
  • When questioned about it, they lied about it under oath.
They had a full day of hearings just this week and didn't bother to deny any of that.

Unless I missed something, the entirety of their response was, "HEY, LOOK -- A SQUIRREL!"

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Republicans haven't rebutted any of the central crimes and claims recounted in the Mueller report:

  • Russians interfered with the election to help Trump.
  • The Trump campaign was aware of it.
  • They didn't report those efforts to law enforcement.
  • They accepted that help and used it in their strategic planning.
  • When questioned about it, they lied about it under oath.
They had a full day of hearings just this week and didn't bother to deny any of that.

Unless I missed something, the entirety of their response was, "HEY, LOOK -- A SQUIRREL!"
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These 5 points need to be pinned on every message board, on every campaign commercial, everywhere. How can anyone, who props up the Constitution, be okay with the 5 points above? The fact that there is no rebuttal, not even a circumstantial rebuttal, or even a valid critique of either of the points, is beyond me. It's crazy that anyone would just let these five points go. A good argument doesn't involve "Whataboutism" or "What if" scenarios but if any Democrat did one of the points above, holy hell would break loose. Any Trump supporting commentator needs to be asked about these five points at every interview they do. It's sickening.

 
Bucky86 said:
https://twitter.com/mediazzzona/status/1155133222323400705?s=21

Looks like the people really love Putin
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There have been protests across the country. The protests in Moscow & St Pete have been running in the 30-50K range. To tie this in basically Hillary (and former traditional US Dem or GOP btw) was expected to further support democracy movements like this, at least vocally and by the US’s moral authority. With Trump of course the USA is totally on mute.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Republicans haven't rebutted any of the central crimes and claims recounted in the Mueller report:

  • Russians interfered with the election to help Trump.
  • The Trump campaign was aware of it.
  • They didn't report those efforts to law enforcement.
  • They accepted that help and used it in their strategic planning.
  • When questioned about it, they lied about it under oath.
They had a full day of hearings just this week and didn't bother to deny any of that.

Unless I missed something, the entirety of their response was, "HEY, LOOK -- A SQUIRREL!"
Click to expand...
All they've done is criticize Mueller's performance while completely ignoring the substance.  I've been saying it since the hearing concluded. When you can't dispute the facts, attack the process.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Republicans haven't rebutted any of the central crimes and claims recounted in the Mueller report:

  • Russians interfered with the election to help Trump.
  • The Trump campaign was aware of it.
  • They didn't report those efforts to law enforcement.
  • They accepted that help and used it in their strategic planning.
  • When questioned about it, they lied about it under oath.
They had a full day of hearings just this week and didn't bother to deny any of that.

Unless I missed something, the entirety of their response was, "HEY, LOOK -- A SQUIRREL!"
Click to expand...
Or...Hey look, that squirrel looks old!!!

 
mrip541 said:
Trolls having a hard time coming up with decent material but I'm excited to see what else they find at the bottom of the barrel.
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The marching orders must be late. Some glitch in the AOL chat rooms. Maybe ICQ is down. Or, it is near the end of the month, the free NetZero 40 hours may have ran out.

 
ren hoek said:
Jesus, this former MSNBC employee just demolished their Russia conspiracy mongering news coverage. 

How much damage has MSNBC done to the Left?

People who recommended them for years were misinformed bigly, it turns out.  
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Wow that was devastating!  I did a search and Louise Mensch and Jonathan Chait come up 100’s of times im this thread.  :lmao:

Elsewhere in the six-minute monologue, Ball accused MSNBC of cynically following the Russia story in pursuit of ratings, making journalistic compromises along the way.

She directly criticized hosts like Rachel Maddow (“You’ve got some explaining to do,” Ball said to her) and on-air analysts like Mimi Rocah (a Daily Beast contributor) for leading viewers to believe that there was a strong possibility that Trump and his family would be indicted. 

Ball also suggested that the “fevered speculation” of guests like New York columnist Jonathan Chait and former British MP Louise Mensch would have been more at home on conspiracy network Infowars.

“Russia conspiracy was great for ratings among the key demographic of empty nesters on the coasts with too much time on their hands,” said Ball, who now hosts an inside-baseball streaming political talk show for The Hill.
Click to expand...

 
"In the hours and days after Mr. Mueller gave his opening statement before the House Judiciary Committee, it became clear how tenaciously many liberals and progressives are clinging to fantasy — not just that President Trump will eventually find himself impeached and removed, but also that they can advance their values by means of legal machination rather than political vision. And at a moment of intense polarization in American politics, this fantasy is especially shortsighted."

The Mueller Fantasy Comes Crashing Down

 
ren hoek said:
"In the hours and days after Mr. Mueller gave his opening statement before the House Judiciary Committee, it became clear how tenaciously many liberals and progressives are clinging to fantasy — not just that President Trump will eventually find himself impeached and removed, but also that they can advance their values by means of legal machination rather than political vision. And at a moment of intense polarization in American politics, this fantasy is especially shortsighted."

The Mueller Fantasy Comes Crashing Down
Click to expand...
Russians interfered with the election to help Trump.

The Trump campaign was aware of it.

They didn't report those efforts to law enforcement.

They accepted that help and used it in their strategic planning.

When questioned about it, they lied about it under oath.

 
Mario Kart said:
Russians interfered with the election to help Trump.

The Trump campaign was aware of it.

They didn't report those efforts to law enforcement.

They accepted that help and used it in their strategic planning.

When questioned about it, they lied about it under oath.
Click to expand...
They also ignored the whole attack on our sovereignty and sided with the KGB instead of our intelligence agencies.

 
Their was not good a reason to deny the attack other then to cover ur misdeeds.  Trump would have benefited politically by putting the screws to Putin. Perhaps not financially.

 
Daywalker said:
Mario Kart said:
Russians interfered with the election to help Trump.

The Trump campaign was aware of it.

They didn't report those efforts to law enforcement.

They accepted that help and used it in their strategic planning.

When questioned about it, they lied about it under oath.
Click to expand...
They also ignored the whole attack on our sovereignty and sided with the KGB instead of our intelligence agencies
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The attacks on our democracy continue to this day while Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump refuse to take action to stop it.

 
bananafish said:
My favorite part is Mueller testifying that Russian interference in our elections is one of the biggest threats to our country he's ever seen and that it continues to this day. This after he was George W's FBI Director who took office one week before 9/11 after being confirmed 98-0, which is only part of his 40-something years in law enforcement which he entered after volunteering to serve as a Marine in Vietnam, for which he received the Bronze Star and Purple Heart and was inducted into the Ranger Hall of Fame.

Of course he's been trashed and accused of being un-American by Republicans and the President, which came after he bent over backwards to be fair to the President, being one of the few people left in the country to take non-partisanship seriously. 

Wait, it gets better: the very same day as Mueller's testimony McConnell blocked two bipartisan election protection bills from coming to the floor in the Senate, using the Russian Hoax line we've all come to love as justification. 

But wait there's more! The next day (yesterday) the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee released the first of five volumes of their findings from their investigation into Russian election interference which gravely stated that it was even worse than we thought, with the voting systems of all 50 states having been infiltrated. 

The best best part is Mueller being obviously guilty of The Worst Presidential Harrassment/Witchhunt in history because he didn't renew his membership at one of Trump's golf courses in the 80's.

Say it with me now:

No Obstruction/No Collusion/Total Exoneration!

It really takes the edge off losing your country. 
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I was told by Glen Greenwald that the report proved Russia in no way interfered with any election.

I think he probably knows better than angry democrat Robert Mueller

 
Mario Kart said:
Russians interfered with the election to help Trump.

The Trump campaign was aware of it.

They didn't report those efforts to law enforcement.

They accepted that help and used it in their strategic planning.

When questioned about it, they lied about it under oath.
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Can any Trump supporters explain the above?

 
James Daulton said:
Mario Kart said:
Russians interfered with the election to help Trump.

The Trump campaign was aware of it.

They didn't report those efforts to law enforcement.

They accepted that help and used it in their strategic planning.

When questioned about it, they lied about it under oath.
Click to expand...
Can any Trump supporters explain the above?
Click to expand...
"Dude, give it up!  :lmao: Mueller looked old and confused. It's over!!1!"

 
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John Blutarsky said:
This one is interesting 

https://thefederalist.com/2018/01/30/adam-schiffs-versions-of-events-are-frequently-false-or-missing-key-details/
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I actually read these things. The complaint in one section is that Schiff described Nunes as having made a 'midnight run' due to a Daily Beast report that stated, 

Hours before the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee announced his shocking claims about surveillance of the Trump transition team on Wednesday morning, he practically disappeared.

Rep. Devin Nunes was traveling with a senior committee staffer in an Uber on Tuesday evening when he received a communication on his phone, three committee officials and a former national security official with ties to the committee told The Daily Beast. After the message, Nunes left the car abruptly, leaving his own staffer in the dark about his whereabouts.

By the next morning, Nunes hastily announced a press conference. His own aides, up to the most senior level, did not know what their boss planned to say next. Nunes’ choice to keep senior staff out of the loop was highly unusual.

The Republican chairman had a bombshell to drop.

“The intelligence community incidentally collected information about U.S. citizens involved in the Trump transition,” Nunes told reporters Wednesday morning.
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Mollie Hemingway's complaint is that this was a "lie" because this wasn't done at night - oh no - there was a press conference "while the sun was out."

 
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Mario Kart said:
Russians interfered with the election to help Trump.
Click to expand...
No they didn't.  Wikileaks published information showing that the Democratic Party had its thumb on the scale and promoted Trump.  It is not known who gave this information to Wikileaks or how they got it.  The DNC interfered with the election to help Trump win the primary, interfered with the election to screw Bernie Sanders, and got caught doing it, hence several of them resigning in shame. 

Mario Kart said:
The Trump campaign was aware of it.

They didn't report those efforts to law enforcement.
Click to expand...
No, they weren't.  There is no evidence that any of them knew about it beforehand.  

There was nothing for them to report.  They had absolute zero to do with the alleged interference by Russians.  There is zero evidence that any of the officials or Russian nationals they dealt with were involved in the alleged interference op.

Mario Kart said:
They accepted that help and used it in their strategic planning.

When questioned about it, they lied about it under oath.
Click to expand...
Yeah- a political campaign used information that damaged their opponent to win an election.  This information was published in mainstream US outlets like NYT, WaPo, WSJ.  That's how elections work.  They didn't "accept" anything in terms of the email publications or IRA memes.  Zero.  

Was the Trump campaign supposed to handle their opponent with little kid's gloves because information that embarrassed the Clinton camp got out to the public?  This sort of pearlclutching on behalf of entrenched power is gross. They "accepted the help," spare me, please.

None of them lied about "Russian interference" or their supposed role in it- there was nothing for them to lie about.  Who specifically lied about "accepting that help"?  

 
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So, the American intelligence arm is flat out wrong. Just flat out wrong about anything and everything that was found and reported on in The Mueller Investigation? Just flat out lies, lies, and more lies?

Where are you getting your conclusions from? I ask because to follow the above sentence, to adhere to the first sentence, to claim our intelligence agencies are flat out wrong, is conspiratorial in nature and, most of all, so many people would have to be a part of the conspiracy that it makes zero sense. Zero.

 
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