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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (6 Viewers)

Donald Trump’s former chief strategist Steve Bannon has described the Trump Tower meeting between the president’s son and a group of Russians during the 2016 election campaign as “treasonous” and “unpatriotic”, according to an explosive new book seen by the Guardian.
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Fake News.

 
Mueller hasn't shown us any evidence yet!!  That means there's no evidence people.  Duh, it's so obvious, we always get to see the evidence during the investigation, how else do we know the investigation people are actually working?

I swear you people and your blind trust that evidence exists when we haven't actually seen it.

 
shader said:
It’s just more of the same innuendo and rumor we’ve seen for 18 months.  “Boy do we have proof.  Trust us.”

I mean he actually wrote:

“credible allegations of collusion between the Trump camp and Russia were pouring in from independent sources during the campaign.”

Yeah...and Mueller so far has provided zero evidence despite all his time spent.  Yet this fusion gps guy knows he’s guilty!  

And spare me the sanctimonious “we’ve been so open” act.  This guy plead the 5th and has been fighting legal battles for months.  

Not sure what his goal is with this article, but it fuels the flame of all the conspiracy theorists, while once again continuing to provide zilch in the way of evidence. 

I mean...this guy is the guy behind the dossier, which is a flaming pile of manure. Yet you guys are eating it up???  Cmon man..
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Criminal investigations generally don't produce their findings while they are ongoing, and some of the dossier has been proven to be true while much remains unvalidated and none has been definitively shown to be false (as far as I am aware, the closest anyone has come is Cohen producing his passport which arguably shows a meeting mentioned in the dossier may not have taken place at the time/place alleged).

Both of these statements are absolutely true. If didn't know that, you shouldn't be commenting (and certainly shouldn't be ridiculing people who do know these things). If you do know that and posted this stuff anyway, you're trolling.

Either way, I've defended you for months and I was wrong. You deserve all the criticism you get.

 
Bannon seems to have the confidence of someone who knows he’s not going down with them. So he either believes he covered his tracks extremely well or turned state witness. 

 
Biff84 said:
Bannon seems to have the confidence of someone who knows he’s not going down with them. So he either believes he covered his tracks extremely well or turned state witness. 
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The third possibility is that he had nothing to do with the Russian situation and is trying to distance himself from all of the folks caught up in it. My guess is this is the most likely scenario here.

 
Sammy3469 said:
I also love that he implicitly says Bretbart isn’t a legitimate news source.  Just an incredible interview in total.  I sort of wonder if he wasn’t the one giving the FBI info.
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Wouldn’t that be something?

It is interesting how leaks from within the WH have mostly evaporated since he left.

 
Workhorse said:
The third possibility is that he had nothing to do with the Russian situation and is trying to distance himself from all of the folks caught up in it. My guess is this is the most likely scenario here.
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Nah, he’s always been clearly the smartest person in the whole Trump camp. If he wasn’t personally involved, he’s smart enough to get out and go back to Breitbart long before he did. He’s deeply tied to the Cambridge company that did all the focused marketing which figures to play into the Russia Investigation. He probably has it setup to have everything point to Jared.

 
Hilts said:
Funny idea, but wasn't Christie one of the few trying to steer the campaign away from Flynn? Seems he might have been one of the few who was smart enough, early enough, to see the incoming problems. 
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How is that inconsistent with him being a source within the campaign?  He was a former United States Attorney who presumably still had contacts in the DOJ and FBI.  If he was concerned with what he was seeing, isn't it possible that in addition to trying to steer the campaign away from illegal activity that he might give someone a heads up?  Particularly as he was basically pushed aside for Pence?

Now, I was making a joke.  And it's complete speculation.  It's entirely possible the Fusion guys really mean Papadopolous.  But if not, I'd think that Christie is on the short list of guys who might have said something discreet.  

 
Biff84 said:
Bannon seems to have the confidence of someone who knows he’s not going down with them. So he either believes he covered his tracks extremely well or turned state witness. 
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I think he knows that he never personally met with any Russians.  I think he knows that he never gave Cambridge Analytics any operational commands (and that Kushner "ran the digital strategy).  I also think he knows that he's not really admitting to anything by saying that the Trump Tower meeting was incredibly stupid.  He's just sticking it to Fredo and the Kush (and Manafort, I guess).   If Bannon is involved, I'm pretty sure it was in ensuring that Breitbart amplified whatever the bots produced, but I'm not sure what law that really violates.  

The flip side, of course, is that Bannon isn't 1/10th as smart as he thinks he is.  So maybe he just popped off because he's kind of dumb.  Not Kushner dumb (Jared being dumb as a bag of hammers continues to be my absolute favorite aspect of this story), but not particularly smart.  

 
Workhorse said:
The third possibility is that he had nothing to do with the Russian situation and is trying to distance himself from all of the folks caught up in it. My guess is this is the most likely scenario here.
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We've come to learn that nearly everyone connected to the Trump campaign has/had questionable connections with Russia. It seems highly unlikely, in my opinion, Bannon is the exception. I also remain baffled by this idea that Bannon is some political savant who is far savvier and more intelligent than the rest of the Stupid Watergate crew. My impression is that he fits right in with the rest of them. Far more hubris than should be warranted. 

 
Sammy3469 said:
I also love that he implicitly says Bretbart isn’t a legitimate news source.  Just an incredible interview in total.  I sort of wonder if he wasn’t the one giving the FBI info.
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I know right? I read that sentence three times to make sure I read it correctly.  :lmao:

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
How is that inconsistent with him being a source within the campaign?  He was a former United States Attorney who presumably still had contacts in the DOJ and FBI.  If he was concerned with what he was seeing, isn't it possible that in addition to trying to steer the campaign away from illegal activity that he might give someone a heads up?  Particularly as he was basically pushed aside for Pence?

Now, I was making a joke.  And it's complete speculation.  It's entirely possible the Fusion guys really mean Papadopolous.  But if not, I'd think that Christie is on the short list of guys who might have said something discreet.  
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Gotcha. I completely agree with this. I took your joke as a dismissal to the idea Christie could have been the guy. 

 
Sammy3469 said:
I also love that he implicitly says Bretbart isn’t a legitimate news source.  Just an incredible interview in total.  I sort of wonder if he wasn’t the one giving the FBI info.
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Had the same thought.

Him, Sessions or Pence would certainly change perceptions.

 
The Indestructible said:
He is trying to get Trump really worried about what Mueller may find or do regarding Don Jr / Kushner as a way to encourage Trump to fire Mueller and/or pardon everybody.
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he knows this would lead directly to trump's removal though, and i can't see how that helps bannon except to hasten the destruction of the GOP in its current form (one of bannon's stated goals).

i think this is more of a self preservation move on bannon's part. as it's becoming clearer and clearer that there was collusion directly by the campaign, he's saying "well of course there was collusion, but it was manafort, don jr and kushner and they started way before i got involved and they are really stupid, not like me, I'm smart" 

 
snitwitch said:
he knows this would lead directly to trump's removal though, and i can't see how that helps bannon except to hasten the destruction of the GOP in its current form (one of bannon's stated goals).

i think this is more of a self preservation move on bannon's part. as it's becoming clearer and clearer that there was collusion directly by the campaign, he's saying "well of course there was collusion, but it was manafort, don jr and kushner and they started way before i got involved and they are really stupid, not like me, I'm smart" 
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1 - I have no faith that the R's in congress will do anything to remove Trump if he fires Mueller.  There are several in congress calling for that to happen already.

2 - I just read that Bannon didn't join the campaign until August, after the "treasonous" meeting took place in July.  So that supports the idea that this is both self-preservation and revenge.  

 
Peter Alexander‏Verified account @PeterAlexander

SIREN: "Steve Bannon was certain that after the (July 2016 Trump Tower) meeting, Trump, Jr. had taken the participants to see his father," per excerpts from new Michael Wolff book, "Fire & Fury." Trump has claimed he was unaware any meeting with Russians took place.

:popcorn:

 
The Indestructible said:
Peter Alexander‏Verified account @PeterAlexander

SIREN: "Steve Bannon was certain that after the (July 2016 Trump Tower) meeting, Trump, Jr. had taken the participants to see his father," per excerpts from new Michael Wolff book, "Fire & Fury." Trump has claimed he was unaware any meeting with Russians took place.

:popcorn:
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The timing of the "major announcement" about Hillary Clinton speech alone at least suggested a phone call, right?  I get that we don't have ironclad proof, but it's a pretty easy inference to support.  

It's seemed pretty likely for months that there was either a bait and switch or miscommunication with Russia.  Trump's team wanted the emails missing off of Hillary's server.  Russia had the DNC emails.  

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
The Indestructible said:
Peter Alexander‏Verified account @PeterAlexander

SIREN: "Steve Bannon was certain that after the (July 2016 Trump Tower) meeting, Trump, Jr. had taken the participants to see his father," per excerpts from new Michael Wolff book, "Fire & Fury." Trump has claimed he was unaware any meeting with Russians took place.

:popcorn:
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The timing of the "major announcement" about Hillary Clinton speech alone at least suggested a phone call, right?  I get that we don't have ironclad proof, but it's a pretty easy inference to support.  
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Correct

 
The Indestructible said:
Peter Alexander‏Verified account @PeterAlexander

SIREN: "Steve Bannon was certain that after the (July 2016 Trump Tower) meeting, Trump, Jr. had taken the participants to see his father," per excerpts from new Michael Wolff book, "Fire & Fury." Trump has claimed he was unaware any meeting with Russians took place.

:popcorn:
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Um, have to say, this is kinda a big thing, no?

Not that most of us needed Bannon to confirm what we assumed was the truth anyway, but the fact that Bannon, lovechild of Alt-Right and ol' time white nationalism, is the mouthpiece behind this?

I guess the Deep state runs deeper than we thought ... and that darn snowflake Bannon sure had us fooled!  He was Bernie's guy all along!

 
not really seeing Bannon’s angle here.  I get wanting to go after Kush, but not this.  Its not going to help elect his alt-right disciples in November.

 
I think some of us are getting our timelines confused. These revelations and statements by Bannon were made when he was part of the Trump White House, so last year and many months ago. They seem to be attacks on his internal enemies in the administration like Kushner and Don Jr. They certainly arent current attempts to distance himself because he has made more recent statements AFTER he left the Trump admin that there was no collusion and that the Mueller investigation is essentially a nothingburger. 

He is clearly a witness and possibly a target of the Mueller probe.

 
So, let's postulate away:

What's Bannon's endgame?  He may have more go than genius, but the guy is pretty keen and wily in a lot of ways.  He's hardly an idiot or lightweight. 

I see Bannon as a guy that enjoys the vengeance, but as a step along a path to some greater goal. What IS that goal here? I mean, what he is saying really looks to implicate Trump, directly.  Looks to put Trump in a corner to take him down, along with the "Republican Established Elite" - but what then?

Can't imagine Pence is his guy.  Does he just want to burn everything down, as that is the first major milestone toward some great reset that puts "americans" (aka, white people) back in charge (as if they ever let go).

If indeed Bannon is looking to hard-implicate Trump, is it to preserve his own role in history and his moral (immoral) crusade, or is there actually a goal other than self preservation while burning #### down? Because I don't see it.

 
Todd Andrews said:
I think some of us are getting our timelines confused. These revelations and statements by Bannon were made when he was part of the Trump White House, so last year and many months ago. They seem to be attacks on his internal enemies in the administration like Kushner and Don Jr. They certainly arent current attempts to distance himself because he has made more recent statements AFTER he left the Trump admin that there was no collusion and that the Mueller investigation is essentially a nothingburger. 

He is clearly a witness and possibly a target of the Mueller probe.
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Thanks for this, as I hadn't realized that. Even so, he is directly implicating Trump, at least from that snippet we just saw.  

 
Todd Andrews said:
I think some of us are getting our timelines confused. These revelations and statements by Bannon were made when he was part of the Trump White House, so last year and many months ago. They seem to be attacks on his internal enemies in the administration like Kushner and Don Jr. They certainly arent current attempts to distance himself because he has made more recent statements AFTER he left the Trump admin that there was no collusion and that the Mueller investigation is essentially a nothingburger. 

He is clearly a witness and possibly a target of the Mueller probe.
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good point. i didn't see that these quotes were given last year. 

 
Koya said:
Thanks for this, as I hadn't realized that. Even so, he is directly implicating Trump, at least from that snippet we just saw.  
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Yeah, it is pretty mindblowing. But Wolff had lots of West Wing access and was doing these interviews pre-papadoplous, pre-carter page, pre-manafort pre-flynn indictments/plea deals, etc., when I think the Trump admin was probably not too worried about Mueller and thought that they could lie their way out of it. 

 
Todd Andrews said:
Yeah, it is pretty mindblowing. But Wolff had lots of West Wing access and was doing these interviews pre-papadoplous, pre-carter page, pre-manafort pre-flynn indictments/plea deals, etc., when I think the Trump admin was probably not too worried about Mueller and thought that they could lie their way out of it. 
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Right - but why so clearly implicate Trump on this? Bannon is too smart to just toss that out there without a reason.

 
Koya said:
Right - but why so clearly implicate Trump on this? Bannon is too smart to just toss that out there without a reason.
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No idea. He has frequently jabbed Trump and has even been quoted saying Trump is "stupid" and like an "11 year old child." I imagine we will find out why Bannon was going after Trump back then as he is going to get intense pressure now to expand on those comments.

 
Todd Andrews said:
I think some of us are getting our timelines confused. These revelations and statements by Bannon were made when he was part of the Trump White House, so last year and many months ago. They seem to be attacks on his internal enemies in the administration like Kushner and Don Jr. They certainly arent current attempts to distance himself because he has made more recent statements AFTER he left the Trump admin that there was no collusion and that the Mueller investigation is essentially a nothingburger. 

He is clearly a witness and possibly a target of the Mueller probe.
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Yes, these were statements he made when the news of the meeting broke and when, coincidentally, he was in a grudge match with Kushner.  And the tenor of the remarks that I get is that he's saying that Kushner and Don Jr. are too stupid to realize they were being invited to commit a conspiracy against the United States.  

His apparent belief that there probably is some money laundering is maybe more problematic, but my sense is that he doesn't think that's a big deal.  He thinks it's normal for someone in Trump's line of work and unrelated to anything the Russians were doing in the election.  But that Don Jr. is such a chump that he'd probably give it up.

 
The trend that never fails to let us down is this:

Every new piece of information that comes out about Trump, his administration, members of his campaign, meetings with Russians, etc. all further implicate him and/or his associates.

What information has come out one serious matters that is exculpatory?  If there is any, it's vastly outweighed by the further negative news that comes out over and over.

 
Koya said:
So, let's postulate away:

What's Bannon's endgame?  He may have more go than genius, but the guy is pretty keen and wily in a lot of ways.  He's hardly an idiot or lightweight. 

I see Bannon as a guy that enjoys the vengeance, but as a step along a path to some greater goal. What IS that goal here? I mean, what he is saying really looks to implicate Trump, directly.  Looks to put Trump in a corner to take him down, along with the "Republican Established Elite" - but what then?

Can't imagine Pence is his guy.  Does he just want to burn everything down, as that is the first major milestone toward some great reset that puts "americans" (aka, white people) back in charge (as if they ever let go).

If indeed Bannon is looking to hard-implicate Trump, is it to preserve his own role in history and his moral (immoral) crusade, or is there actually a goal other than self preservation while burning #### down? Because I don't see it.
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The bolded is the big Bannon goal, he's a nationalist and doesn't believe very much in namby-pamby democracy. Maybe, having now realized just what an empty vessel Trump is and how poorly equipped he is to be anything more than a Governor Lepetomane, he is just looking to cause chaos and see which charismatic figure emerges from it.

 
adonis said:
The trend that never fails to let us down is this:

Every new piece of information that comes out about Trump, his administration, members of his campaign, meetings with Russians, etc. all further implicate him and/or his associates.

What information has come out one serious matters that is exculpatory?  If there is any, it's vastly outweighed by the further negative news that comes out over and over.
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Haven't you heard about Uranium One?  What about the Strozk texts?  And the Forensicator?  And her emails?!  Did I mention Uranium One?

 
Josh Dawsey‏Verified account @jdawsey1 3m3 minutes ago

White House just issued a statement torching Bannon from Trump. "Steve pretends to be at war with the media, which he calls the opposition party, yet he spent his time at the White House leaking false information to the media to make himself seem far more important than he was."

 
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