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The Russia Investigation: DOJ Drops Case Against Flynn Even After He Pleads Guilty

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29 minutes ago, adonis said:

Many parts of the dossier have been verified so yes, it’s credible...but that doesn’t mean all of it is true.  Pee tapes may exist or may not...I really couldn’t care much less on that issue.

48 minutes ago, adonis said:

Was practicing my Sarah Sanders response to the pee tape being made public.

Might of worked if you had changed your avatar.

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1 hour ago, Dedfin said:

:goodposting:

As of 2017, Gen X + Millenials have a greater voting age population than Boomers and older.  Millennials are like Neo in the Matrix now.  All they have to do realize they can control everything and it's all donezo.

They are too busy growing man buns and terrible beards

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1 hour ago, roadkill1292 said:

The reason I believe that the House won't impeach for anything less than pee tapes is that GOP strategists know that this is their last stand, their last feasible chance of packing courts, cutting entitlements, disenfranchising minorities and enacting sweetheart deals for their wealthy donors and corporatists. Time and demographics are working against them and instead of inspiring an uprising of nationalism after the election, the president-elect has proven himself too much of a leaky vessel to pull off anything more than a four-year money grab, let alone an authoritarian takeover of the government. They've got to get their's now while the gettin's good because the newest and soon-to-be most powerful bloc of voters won't be having any of these shenanigans.

This is exactly what I was trying to say earlier (poorly). This is spot on. It's a culture war and this is their opportunity for the power grab. That's why I think it will take decades to recover. Pack the courts, taxes, environmental degradation, strengthening of corporate influence, and further measures to ensure electoral competiveness despite the changing demographics (voter suppression, gerrymandering). 

I personally don't think there's a lot of reason for optimism, this will take decades to regain the current state of affairs. 

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2 hours ago, Bucky86 said:

Oh noes!!! The FBI agent called Trump an idiot :rolleyes: 

As did his Secretary of State....is telling the truth now illegal in the Trimp era?

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2 hours ago, Bucky86 said:

Oh noes!!! The FBI agent called Trump an idiot :rolleyes: 

I mean if anything it speaks highly of his judgment. 

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7 minutes ago, Banger said:

...is telling the truth now illegal in the Trimp era?

No. But it may get you banned.  :coffee:

 

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Fox News v. Robert Mueller

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD

DEC. 12, 2017

 If only we could dismiss Sean Hannity, Jeanine Pirro, Laura Ingraham and the other well-paid propagandists at Fox News as though they were harmless drunks at the end of the bar, ticking off their conspiracy theories to anyone who will listen. Unfortunately, the guy sitting on the next stool is the president of the United States, and he’s all ears.

President Trump watches cable news for four to eight hours a day,according to a report in The Times last weekend. Mr. Trump has disputed that number, but not the fact that his TV diet consists overwhelmingly of Fox’s sycophants, who have now gathered around one insistent message aimed at their No. 1 fan: Fire Robert Mueller now.

That would be a tremendous mistake, one that ought to alarm any true liberal or conservative. It would strike at the very idea that no American is above the law. The special counsel’s seven-month-old investigation into whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russian government officials to help influence the 2016 presidential election has already led to the indictments of two top campaign officials on multiple federal crimes and guilty pleas from two others for lying to the F.B.I. And it doesn’t appear to be winding down anytime soon.

But in Fox’s alternate universe, the investigation is “illegitimate and corrupt,” or so says Gregg Jarrett, a legal analyst who appears regularly on Mr. Hannity’s nightly exercise in presidential ego-stroking. “Mueller’s stooges literally are doing everything within their power, and then some, to try and remove President Trump from office,” Mr. Hannity said last Wednesday.

“What a total travesty! They should all step aside,” Ms. Ingraham said last week, almost gleefully, about the supposed conflicts of interest permeating the special counsel’s highly experienced team of investigators. “Including Bob Mueller.”

Perhaps the most inflammatory rhetoric has come from Ms. Pirro, the host of “Justice With Judge Jeanine” and a “presidential favorite,” according to The Times. “There is a cleansing needed in our F.B.I. and Department of Justice,” Ms. Pirro said Saturday, in her most unhinged rant yet. “It needs to be cleansed of individuals who should not just be fired but who need to be taken out in handcuffs.”

Ms. Pirro named, among others, James Comey, the former F.B.I. director (“so political, so corrupt”); Andrew McCabe, the bureau’s deputy director, apparently in the tank for Hillary Clinton; and Peter Strzok, a top counterintelligence agent whom Mr. Mueller removed from the investigation after learning of private text messages he sent in 2016 criticizing Mr. Trump and praising Mrs. Clinton.

Topping her list of outlaws was, of course, Mr. Mueller, who she said “can’t come up with one piece of evidence!” Maybe she just forgot about the indictments and guilty pleas? Ms. Pirro, a former New York prosecutor and judge, didn’t allege any actual crimes, just that Mr. Mueller and his people are guilty of “attempting to destroy Trump.”

It would be one thing if Ms. Pirro were only spouting off on television. But she is a friend of Mr. Trump’s and has met privately with him and his top advisers to sell her half-cocked theories. After Mr. Trump’s victory last year, she interviewed to be his deputy attorney general, a job that would have empowered her to fire Mr. Mueller on her own.

To put it mildly, this is insane. The primary purpose of Mr. Mueller’s investigation is not to take down Mr. Trump. It’s to protect America’s national security and the integrity of its elections by determining whether a presidential campaign conspired with a foreign adversary to influence the 2016 election — a proposition that grows more plausible every day.

If the president’s supporters are upset about how close that investigation is getting to the Oval Office, they should ask not whether any F.B.I. investigator has ever held an opinion about politics, but rather why Mr. Trump chose as his closest advisers people with a tendency to talk to Russian officials and then fail to tell the truth, again and again, about the nature of those communications. As The Times’s Bret Stephens wrote:“Fire? Maybe not. But we are dying of smoke inhalation.” (Mr. Trump’s defenders might also recall that the president himself prompted Mr. Mueller’s appointment when he fired Mr. Comey, who had been overseeing the Russia investigation.)

When the propagandists say, “Get rid of Mueller,” it’s not the truth they’re trying to protect; it’s Mr. Trump himself. Any genuine interest in objective reality left the building a while ago, replaced by a self-sustaining fantasyland. If it’s hard to understand how roughly three-quarters of Republicans still refuse to accept that Russia interfered in the 2016 election — a fact that is glaringly obvious to everyone else, including the nation’s intelligence community and Mr. Trump’s secretary of state, Rex Tillerson — remember that a majority of the same people continue to believe that President Barack Obama was born in Kenya.

There was a time not too long ago when Republicans in Congress seemed genuinely interested in protecting Mr. Mueller — who, it bears noting, was originally appointed to head the F.B.I. by George W. Bush and who was named special counsel by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, also a Bush appointee. But Fox’s alt-reality vortex has sucked in previously levelheaded members of the G.O.P. like Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina senator who said as recently as October that there would be “holy hell to pay” if Mr. Trump tried to fire Mr. Mueller. Last Friday, Mr. Graham tweeted in support of “a Special Counsel to investigate ALL THINGS 2016 — not just Trump and Russia.” On Monday night, according to Axios, Jay Sekulow, one of Mr. Trump’s personal lawyers, called for a special prosecutor to investigate … the special prosecutor. The tipping point? An article on Fox News’s website about a top Justice Department official’s wife and her work for Fusion GPS, the research firm behind the so-called Steele dossier.

None of these attacks or insinuations are grounded in good faith. The anti-Mueller brigade cares not a whit about possible bias in the Justice Department or the F.B.I. It simply wants the investigation shut down out of a fear of what it might reveal. But if your man is really innocent, what’s the worry?

Edited by cosjobs
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I’m still trying to figure out the basis for the statement that investigative bias is a conflict of interest.  Apparently a Clinton supporter shouldn’t investigate Clinton. And shouldn’t investigate the Trump administration. Which would mean that anyone with an opinion of a public figure, positive or negative, has a conflict of interest. At the same time, Sessions shouldn’t have recused himself, even though he actively worked on the Trump campaign. 

Needless to say, investigators are often motivated to take down a target. Nobody dispassionately investigates Al Capone or John Gotti.  The top prosecutors, US Attorneys, are political appointees. 

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15 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

The oversight is exactly the same as it is with every other criminal investigation- the judicial process.  Or in the case of any potential findings of wrongdoing by Trump Sr, the impeachment process. That's the whole idea of appointing special counsel- to remove improper influence by interested parties so the investigation can be conducted like any other.

Yes, yes, but other than that...

/Rove

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10 hours ago, Bucky86 said:

Oh noes!!! The FBI agent called Trump an idiot :rolleyes: 

Fyi for those interested, more info on the texts' content.

- DC is the center of politics, I'm not surprised that FBI agents talk about it with each other considering they can't be outwardly political in any way, especially two people in a relationship. I'm sure this is hard for them in a number of ways. The substance seems really low grade to me, some of it obvious and typical of talk in 2016. 

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19 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Fyi for those interested, more info on the texts' content.

- DC is the center of politics, I'm not surprised that FBI agents talk about it with each other considering they can't be outwardly political in any way, especially two people in a relationship. I'm sure this is hard for them in a number of ways. The substance seems really low grade to me, some of it obvious and typical of talk in 2016. 

wow talk about a nothingburger....I've said 100 times worse and he's right

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24 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Fyi for those interested, more info on the texts' content.

- DC is the center of politics, I'm not surprised that FBI agents talk about it with each other considering they can't be outwardly political in any way, especially two people in a relationship. I'm sure this is hard for them in a number of ways. The substance seems really low grade to me, some of it obvious and typical of talk in 2016. 

This is the big bombshell @shader?

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14 hours ago, irishidiot said:

cripes, I haven't posted here in ages & the pee Russian dossier is now credible?  asking for a friend

A lot of it has been credible and verified for months. 

Keep in mind, there's about a 0% chance it ever would've been brought to Obama and Trump in the first place if there wasn't a belief of some kind in its authenticity. 

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45 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Trump will probably fire him around Christmas....

You are probably right. Seems likely they would pull that crap to minimize the public response. 

If/when Mueller is fired there needs to be a massive, forceful, but peaceful protest to show that the rule of law is important to us as a country. 

Thankfully people are already working on such a plan.  I signed up at www.trumpisnotabovethelaw.org to be notified of my local protest when it happens. 

I hope this doesn't run afoul of board rules. If it does, mods please let me know if changes need to be made.

Edited by fossdboss

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This Rosenstein hearing should be pretty funny. One bored evening I actually watched some of his confirmation hearing. The GOP gave him a sweetheart walk-through, now he'll be treated like Mr. Bad Guy.

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Testimony from Rosenstein is at least mildly comforting. Sounds like Trump would have to go full Saturday Night Massacre to get rid of Mueller.

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1 hour ago, Bucky86 said:

I think its both.  he can move on him all he wants...if the evidence is there, moving on him sort of hastens that evidence coming out...no?  Or forces the hand of congress.  Surely there is some backbone in there to make it not just swept under the rug by shady dealings and getting rid of a guy they all praised.

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3 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Testimony from Rosenstein is at least mildly comforting. Sounds like Trump would have to go full Saturday Night Massacre to get rid of Mueller.

He'll find a way to bungle it cuz Stupid Watergate. 

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4 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Testimony from Rosenstein is at least mildly comforting. Sounds like Trump would have to go full Saturday Night Massacre to get rid of Mueller.

Justice with Judge Jeanine does air Saturday night.

Edited by Slapdash
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1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

Testimony from Rosenstein is at least mildly comforting. Sounds like Trump would have to go full Saturday Night Massacre to get rid of Mueller.

That is my take so far as well.  Rosenstein repeatedly emphasized his oversight role over Mueller.  

With that having been said, I think full Saturday Night Massacre is Trump's only option left and I believe he will take it, especially in light of some of the Twitter chatter from this morning.  I still think he saves it for Christmas Eve.  So the only real question in my mind is whether we go with "Christmas Eve Massacre" or something a little more creative, like "Christmas Carnage."

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1 minute ago, The Indestructible said:

That is my take so far as well.  Rosenstein repeatedly emphasized his oversight role over Mueller.  

With that having been said, I think full Saturday Night Massacre is Trump's only option left and I believe he will take it, especially in light of some of the Twitter chatter from this morning.  I still think he saves it for Christmas Eve.  So the only real question in my mind is whether we go with "Christmas Eve Massacre" or something a little more creative, like "Christmas Carnage."

Kristmastallnacht

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1 minute ago, The Indestructible said:

That is my take so far as well.  Rosenstein repeatedly emphasized his oversight role over Mueller.  

With that having been said, I think full Saturday Night Massacre is Trump's only option left and I believe he will take it, especially in light of some of the Twitter chatter from this morning.  I still think he saves it for Christmas Eve.  So the only real question in my mind is whether we go with "Christmas Eve Massacre" or something a little more creative, like "Christmas Carnage."

I'm not sure how doing something like this around the holidays would break.  It would be such a big story that it might not even get buried by the holidays, which could then make Trump the Grinch in addition to being a justice-obstructing Putin puppet.

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1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

I'm not sure how doing something like this around the holidays would break.  It would be such a big story that it might not even get buried by the holidays, which could then make Trump the Grinch in addition to being a justice-obstructing Putin puppet.

Yeah. No way the firing of Mueller get's buried even on Christmas.

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Jim Sciutto‏Verified account @jimsciutto 2m2 minutes ago

More

AG Rosenstein now aggressively dismissing GOP case to undermine Mueller: "Based upon his reputation, his service, his patriotism...I believe he was an ideal choice for this task"

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3 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Jim Sciutto‏Verified account @jimsciutto 2m2 minutes ago

More

AG Rosenstein now aggressively dismissing GOP case to undermine Mueller: "Based upon his reputation, his service, his patriotism...I believe he was an ideal choice for this task"

Didn’t he hire Mueller?

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1 minute ago, jonessed said:

Didn’t he hire Mueller?

He did, about 4 months after Trump nominated him as Deputy AG, about 1 month after the Republican-controlled Senate confirmed him as Deputy AG, and a few weeks after he wrote a memo supporting (?) Trump's decision to fire Comey.  

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Rosenstein is telling Trump and the Republicans that if Mueller is fired Trump's gonna have to go full Saturday Night Massacre to do it.

Then the Republicans will be put in the batter's box and asked definitively what really matters most - party or country? With Nixon, the party did the right thing when pushed into the corner. Let's see how this party responds. 

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1 minute ago, packersfan said:

Rosenstein is telling Trump and the Republicans that if Mueller is fired Trump's gonna have to go full Saturday Night Massacre to do it.

Then the Republicans will be put in the batter's box and asked definitively what really matters most - party or country? With Nixon, the party did the right thing when pushed into the corner. Let's see how this party responds. 

Not really. Only 6 of 17 Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee voted to approve the Articles of Impeachment. And that was after not just the Saturday Night Massacre but the release of the famous tapes with the 18 minute gap.

On the other hand, Cox didn't have the goods yet, he got fired for pressing for them. If Mueller has Flynn saying that Trump directed him to lie about his December meeting with the Russian Ambassador then he already has him dead to rights. That doesn't go away just because Mueller is gone.

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Just now, TobiasFunke said:

Not really. Only 6 of 17 Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee voted to approve the Articles of Impeachment. And that was after not just the Saturday Night Massacre but the release of the famous tapes with the 18 minute gap.

On the other hand, Cox didn't have the goods yet, he got fired for pressing for them. If Mueller has Flynn saying that Trump directed him to lie about his December meeting with the Russian Ambassador then he already has him dead to rights. That doesn't go away just because Mueller is gone.

Good point. I guess my feeling is that 6 of 17 then is a lot higher percentage than one would predict now given how the Republicans have behaved toward Trump thus far. 

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1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

Not really. Only 6 of 17 Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee voted to approve the Articles of Impeachment. And that was after not just the Saturday Night Massacre but the release of the famous tapes with the 18 minute gap.

On the other hand, Cox didn't have the goods yet, he got fired for pressing for them. If Mueller has Flynn saying that Trump directed him to lie about his December meeting with the Russian Ambassador then he already has him dead to rights. That doesn't go away just because Mueller is gone.

I've said it before, but it's worth repeating...

With the level of competence with not only Mueller but his whole team, I see no way that thy have not prepared for this, My guess is there will be a public dump and/or clear handoffs to other LE / prosecutorial agencies and it will be a damning and ruthless takedown of any and all involved, with whatever info they have (and my guess is it's a lot)

What can be made public will, what can't will go to state AG's etc.  Wouldnt surprise me if theres been some coordination with foreign IC of our historic allies as well so even if the kabash is continually placed on the legal machine here, the damning info will still force this story to play out, visibly, for years to come.

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Maybe Donald better make sure he fires Mueller before the '18 elections. It's a risky play even now but it's got to be worse after GOP majorities decline or even disappear.

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12 minutes ago, packersfan said:

Rosenstein is telling Trump and the Republicans that if Mueller is fired Trump's gonna have to go full Saturday Night Massacre to do it.

Then the Republicans will be put in the batter's box and asked definitively what really matters most - party or country? With Nixon, the party did the right thing when pushed into the corner. Let's see how this party responds. 

Based on their actions in recent history we all know the answer to how they respond. 

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1 minute ago, packersfan said:

Good point. I guess my feeling is that 6 of 17 then is a lot higher percentage than one would predict now given how the Republicans have behaved toward Trump thus far. 

Also they're the majority now so they don't even have to put it to a vote at the Committee level if they didn't want to do it.

I think the more likely outcome would be a November 2018 bloodbath for the GOP if they allow Trump to do this without repercussions. But remember even if they lose 50 seats (possible if there's a Saturday Night  Massacre type move) that still leaves the vast majority of them relatively unscathed and therefore not particularly motivated to take action.

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1 minute ago, Koya said:

I've said it before, but it's worth repeating...

With the level of competence with not only Mueller but his whole team, I see no way that thy have not prepared for this, My guess is there will be a public dump and/or clear handoffs to other LE / prosecutorial agencies and it will be a damning and ruthless takedown of any and all involved, with whatever info they have (and my guess is it's a lot)

What can be made public will, what can't will go to state AG's etc.  Wouldnt surprise me if theres been some coordination with foreign IC of our historic allies as well so even if the kabash is continually placed on the legal machine here, the damning info will still force this story to play out, visibly, for years to come.

Like what Black Widow did in Captain America;Winter Soldier. 

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