What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (12 Viewers)

Rove! said:
. . . trying to make an obstruction of justice case over a statement to the New York Times is the kind of tactics that scare the #### out of me.  That’s pretty totalitarian when you you get down to it.  
Click to expand...
I don't think the theory is that the press release itself constitutes obstruction.  It's that the group formulation of the press release ends up being a conspiracy to obstruct justice, and then obstruction of justice itself, if Jr. later gave statements to investigators consistent with the press release story.

Also, that's a funny definition of totalitarianism you've got there.  Allowing an independent investigator to investigate the president is the opposite of totalitarianism. 

The president trying to stop books from being published, trying to intimidate and threaten the media, subverting democracy, claiming infallibility and lying to the people about just about everything - those are totalitarian

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr. Ham said:
On Trump’s assertion that he’s one of the great businessmen, as he put it.

What’s known is that had he left his inheritance alone in an index fund and let it compound, he’d have significantly more wealth accrued than he mostly likely has (its likely he’s worth well below a billion) without the bankruptcies and stiffing vendors.  

What is probable given facts on the record is that the only reason he was able to secure capital to remain solvent was because he shifted his business model to acting as a service provider, illegally, for the Russian mob.

Some great businessmen.  

You have to ask yourself why when not one US bank would lend to the self-aggrandizing businessman with a penchant for going broke, a couple of banks were, and what they were into.  Oh, wait, actually you don’t have to ask yourself that.  That’s what Mueller and team is doing and why Trump is ####ting his pants.  
Click to expand...
:goodposting: I don't think it's the collusion that has Trump upset and worried.

 
Mr. Ham said:
You have to ask yourself why when not one US bank would lend to the self-aggrandizing businessman with a penchant for going broke, a couple of banks were, and what they were into.  Oh, wait, actually you don’t have to ask yourself that.  That’s what Mueller and team is doing and why Trump is ####ting his pants.  
Click to expand...
It isn't like Mueller has been going after records from Deutsche or anything...

 
randall146 said:
The president trying to stop books from being published, trying to intimidate and threaten the media, subverting democracy, claiming infallibility and lying to the people about just about everything - those are totalitarian
Click to expand...
Yeah. But it's not clear that it's totally totalitarian.

It may just be septuagenarian.

 
Last edited:
Koya said:
What is the relevance of Texas?

Also, one of my best friends works for the SEC in Ft. Worth.  :oldunsure:  
Click to expand...
SEC divides the country into regions who are only suppose to deal with their states (Washington DC oversees everything and does stuff like Corp Fin, rulemaking, etc.)  The only reason the EB-5 case I link fell under Ft Worth pervue was the company moved headquarters to TX in August 2016 (which shows how quickly they acted).

The WSJ article said th SEC subpoena came from Texas (didn’t outright say Ft Worth, but that’s who is in charge of TX).  In order for Kushner’s EB-5 stuff to even get on their radar would mean either Kushner had an office there through which the offering were made (EB-5 is a non-registered securities offering) or Kushner’s companies defrauded someone very powerful in TX (who that would be is beyond me since TX is so Republican).

Net-net the entire thing is strange since something like coordinating FT Worth and the SDNY would be done through enforcement staff in DC, if you catch my drift.  There’s no way SEC commissioners don’t know this is happening, so whatever it is is pretty egregious (if it’s borderline enforcement can claim they can’t make a case and shut it down pretty easily).

Just a really strange set of facts.

 
Sammy3469 said:
So Trump invited all his Cabinet level people to Camp David this weekend besides the DOJ/FBI (I believe).  With the drumbeat from Republican Reps the past 2 days for Sessions to resign, I won't be surprised if he's gone by Monday and they move quickly to put someone in the AG position more friendly to shutting down the Special Prosecutor.  
Click to expand...
You conspiracy people are real pieces of work.

If trump talks or meets with The DOJ or FBI you screech...if doesn’t meet with them you screech....

 
Rove! said:
Sammy3469 said:
So Trump invited all his Cabinet level people to Camp David this weekend besides the DOJ/FBI (I believe).  With the drumbeat from Republican Reps the past 2 days for Sessions to resign, I won't be surprised if he's gone by Monday and they move quickly to put someone in the AG position more friendly to shutting down the Special Prosecutor.  
Click to expand...
You conspiracy people are real pieces of work.

If trump talks or meets with The DOJ or FBI you screech...if doesn’t meet with them you screech....
Click to expand...
Cool story, brah

 
Mr. Ham said:
On Trump’s assertion that he’s one of the great businessmen, as he put it.

What’s known is that had he left his inheritance alone in an index fund and let it compound, he’d have significantly more wealth accrued than he mostly likely has (its likely he’s worth well below a billion) without the bankruptcies and stiffing vendors.  

What is probable given facts on the record is that the only reason he was able to secure capital to remain solvent was because he shifted his business model to acting as a service provider, illegally, for the Russian mob.

Some great businessman.

You have to ask yourself why when not one US bank would lend to the self-aggrandizing businessman with a penchant for going broke, a couple of banks were, and what they were into.  Oh, wait, actually you don’t have to ask yourself that.  That’s what Mueller and team is doing and why Trump is ####ting his pants.  
Click to expand...
This.  Considering what he had to start with, Trump is not a great businessman. He's had WAY too many failures to be considered such. What I will give him credit for is his ability to promote himself. He's very good at that. And a great snake oil salesmen. The fact that he still has 30 percent of the country supporting him after the disastrous first year in office confirms that. 

 
Mr. Ham said:
On Trump’s assertion that he’s one of the great businessmen, as he put it.

What’s known is that had he left his inheritance alone in an index fund and let it compound, he’d have significantly more wealth accrued than he mostly likely has (its likely he’s worth well below a billion) without the bankruptcies and stiffing vendors.  

What is probable given facts on the record is that the only reason he was able to secure capital to remain solvent was because he shifted his business model to acting as a service provider, illegally, for the Russian mob.

Some great businessman.

You have to ask yourself why when not one US bank would lend to the self-aggrandizing businessman with a penchant for going broke, a couple of banks were, and what they were into.  Oh, wait, actually you don’t have to ask yourself that.  That’s what Mueller and team is doing and why Trump is ####ting his pants.  
Click to expand...
No more of a businessman than Chip and Joanna 

 
Mr. Ham said:
On Trump’s assertion that he’s one of the great businessmen, as he put it.

What’s known is that had he left his inheritance alone in an index fund and let it compound, he’d have significantly more wealth accrued than he mostly likely has (its likely he’s worth well below a billion) without the bankruptcies and stiffing vendors.  

What is probable given facts on the record is that the only reason he was able to secure capital to remain solvent was because he shifted his business model to acting as a service provider, illegally, for the Russian mob.

Some great businessman.

You have to ask yourself why when not one US bank would lend to the self-aggrandizing businessman with a penchant for going broke, a couple of banks were, and what they were into.  Oh, wait, actually you don’t have to ask yourself that.  That’s what Mueller and team is doing and why Trump is ####ting his pants.  
Click to expand...
I guess if he had put hi money in a fund and lived in a one room shack, lived off of bread sandwiches, never dated, never traveled, never married, never had kids etc

the tax reform bill of ‘86 had big impact on his business, as well, as the whole tax structure of real estate holdings changed and the market tanked because people weren’t able to buy real estate holdings as tax write offs anymore.

he talks about this below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rksd80-FCAw

 
Rove! said:
I guess if he had put hi money in a fund and lived in a one room shack, lived off of bread sandwiches, never dated, never traveled, never married, never had kids etc

the tax reform bill of ‘86 had big impact on his business, as well, as the whole tax structure of real estate holdings changed and the market tanked because people weren’t able to buy real estate holdings as tax write offs anymore.

he talks about this below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rksd80-FCAw
Click to expand...
Hm, that link also points to this, from Cspan.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rove! said:
I guess if he had put hi money in a fund and lived in a one room shack, lived off of bread sandwiches, never dated, never traveled, never married, never had kids etc

the tax reform bill of ‘86 had big impact on his business, as well, as the whole tax structure of real estate holdings changed and the market tanked because people weren’t able to buy real estate holdings as tax write offs anymore.

he talks about this below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rksd80-FCAw
Click to expand...
Real estate holdings deductions from 1986 are not why he filed for bankruptcy for his various companies six times. 

 
Remember how many of us, including me, regarded Lindsay Graham as one of those principled conservative senators who would stand up to Trump? His turnabout has been shameful. 

 
timschochet said:
Remember how many of us, including me, regarded Lindsay Graham as one of those principled conservative senators who would stand up to Trump? His turnabout has been shameful. 
Click to expand...
Yeah I really thought all the Senators that had been mocked and treated like crap by Trump (Graham, Rubio, Cruz, McCain, Rand Paul) would be more likely to turn the tables on him but it hasn't worked out that way.  Republican primary voters are too pro-Trump and these guys aren't willing to end their careers I guess.  Either that or Trump's famous charm has gotten to them.

 
Bucky86 said:
https://youtu.be/dfCiIB8jaXY

totally not hiding anything 
Click to expand...
Tapper got Miller to (not) address three questions:

  • Did Trump meet any of the participants Don Jr./Agalarov Magnitsky meeting? - Miller first answered that Bannon was not at Trump Tower that day, then he said he himself was not at the meeting. Then of course he blew up the interview the first time.
  • Why is the President pretending Bannon had nothing to do with his presidency when in fact he played a key role in at least 4 policy proposals that Tapper rattled off? - Miller took this as an insult, reflecting that the WH's big concern is in people might be thinking that Bannon won Trump the presidency, not Trump. Miller lost his cool entirely and started rambling.
  • Didn't Miller draft the first draft of the press release on the Comey firing in which the Russia investigation was mentioned at the very beginning? - Miller said the Russia investigation was mentioned in the final draft too, totally avoided his role in it, and then blew up the interview entirely by insisting he have 3 minutes to speak to the American people on Trump's greatness.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr. Ham said:
On Trump’s assertion that he’s one of the great businessmen, as he put it.

What’s known is that had he left his inheritance alone in an index fund and let it compound, he’d have significantly more wealth accrued than he mostly likely has (its likely he’s worth well below a billion) without the bankruptcies and stiffing vendors.  

What is probable given facts on the record is that the only reason he was able to secure capital to remain solvent was because he shifted his business model to acting as a service provider, illegally, for the Russian mob.

Some great businessman.

You have to ask yourself why when not one US bank would lend to the self-aggrandizing businessman with a penchant for going broke, a couple of banks were, and what they were into.  Oh, wait, actually you don’t have to ask yourself that.  That’s what Mueller and team is doing and why Trump is ####ting his pants.  
Click to expand...
He's a real tight end of industry. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Bucky86 said:
https://youtu.be/dfCiIB8jaXY

totally not hiding anything 
Click to expand...
Tapper got Miller to (not) address three questions:

  • Did Trump meet any of the participants Don Jr./Agalarov Magnitsky meeting? - Miller first answered that Bannon was not at Trump Tower that day, then he said he himself was not at the meeting. Then of course he blew up the interview the first time.
  • Why is the President pretending Bannon had nothing to do with his presidency when in fact he played a key role in at least 4 policy proposals that Tapper rattled off? - Miller took this as an insult, reflecting that the WH's big concern is in people might be thinking that Bannon won Trump the presidency, not Trump. Miller lost his cool entirely and started rambling.
  • Didn't Miller draft the first draft of the press release on the Comey firing in which the Russia investigation was mentioned at the very beginning? - Miller said the Russia investigation was mentioned in the final draft too, totally avoided his role in it, and then blew up the interview entirely by insisting he have 3 minutes to speak to the American people on Trump's greatness.
Click to expand...
The whole thing was just another surreal prop piece for Trump

 
Henry Ford said:
Real estate holdings deductions from 1986 are not why he filed for bankruptcy for his various companies six times. 
Click to expand...
Guys, NOT WORTH ARGUING with this actor.

Seriously... everyone I know in NY real estate and financial circles all but laughs at the patheticness that is Trump's business "acumen" - now, AFTER his repeated business failures, he did become a great brand man and TV personality, but as noted above, no legit American financial institution has lent to him in decades, he's a proven liar, fraud and cheat who repeatedly didn't pay his contractors. His "real estate" dealings over the past recent history are no more than renting out his name (quite lucratively, mind you - at least until recently when the world finally realized how disgusting and vile a human being he really is, something those of us up in NY have known for a good long time)

To believe Trump is not even just an ok businessman (he's not, he's a repeat failure) but some business "genius" is to be so clueless as to not be able to understand a TON of recorded history and fact to the above, or just be ok with flat out lying.  There's not other way about it.

So, why expend energy on someone who either can't understand literally decades of on the record business failures and/or frauds, or someone who maybe actual can, but is ok coming off as that clueless to prove some ulterior point? Just let the voice of completely non-factual based opinions or purposeful lies and misinformation echo in its own chamber. 

BTW, one key clue to what I've said above? How has the REST of the real estate industry done after 1986? I mean, even with the great recession, those at the top of the real estate pyramid have done VERY VERY well over that period.  Trump using that as an excuse is pathetic, and someone actually believing such a sad sack excuse speaks volumes.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bucky86 said:
https://youtu.be/dfCiIB8jaXY

totally not hiding anything 
Click to expand...
Jesus, they really need to never let him out to speak in public. I thought they learned this lesson last year. He has no charisma. He has negative charisma. He can't deliver his talking points without coming across like a serial killer, though I've always imagined even they have some likeability. 

Good lord, at least send Conway back out. She's better than this guy. In the middle of his utterly bizarre attack his eyes still look like he's half asleep and maybe dead. Horrible, horrible appearance. They need to break out the Mooch.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Yeah I really thought all the Senators that had been mocked and treated like crap by Trump (Graham, Rubio, Cruz, McCain, Rand Paul) would be more likely to turn the tables on him but it hasn't worked out that way.  Republican primary voters are too pro-Trump and these guys aren't willing to end their careers I guess.  Either that or Trump's famous charm has gotten to them.
Click to expand...
They were pretty much screwed whether they missed the last boat out or climbed aboard The Titanic. Some of them may survive by throwing women and children out of the life rafts passing tax cuts for the wealthy but they just look weak and obsequious and it won't save the party in the long run.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Yeah I really thought all the Senators that had been mocked and treated like crap by Trump (Graham, Rubio, Cruz, McCain, Rand Paul) would be more likely to turn the tables on him but it hasn't worked out that way.  Republican primary voters are too pro-Trump and these guys aren't willing to end their careers I guess.  Either that or Trump's famous charm has gotten to them.
Click to expand...
I think this is something that Fire and Fury speaks to. These guys know that Trump will sign whatever they want, and they're worried that if he feels he's treated unfairly his 20-25% of the electorate will destroy the party. 

That's why we're seeing full throated support on the Russian Affair.  And It's important to remember that Nixon had the public support of California Governor Ronald Reagan and Chair of the RNC George Bush even after John Dean flipped on national tv. So it isn't even like we're in uncharted waters. 

 
Koya said:
Guys, NOT WORTH ARGUING with this actor.

Seriously... everyone I know in NY real estate and financial circles all but laughs at the patheticness that is Trump's business "acumen" - now, AFTER his repeated business failures, he did become a great brand man and TV personality, but as noted above, no legit American financial institution has lent to him in decades, he's a proven liar, fraud and cheat who repeatedly didn't pay his contractors. His "real estate" dealings over the past recent history are no more than renting out his name (quite lucratively, mind you - at least until recently when the world finally realized how disgusting and vile a human being he really is, something those of us up in NY have known for a good long time)

To believe Trump is not even just an ok businessman (he's not, he's a repeat failure) but some business "genius" is to be so clueless as to not be able to understand a TON of recorded history and fact to the above, or just be ok with flat out lying.  There's not other way about it.

So, why expend energy on someone who either can't understand literally decades of on the record business failures and/or frauds, or someone who maybe actual can, but is ok coming off as that clueless to prove some ulterior point? Just let the voice of completely non-factual based opinions or purposeful lies and misinformation echo in its own chamber. 

BTW, one key clue to what I've said above? How has the REST of the real estate industry done after 1986? I mean, even with the great recession, those at the top of the real estate period have done VERY VERY well over that period.  Trump using that as an excuse is pathetic, and someone actually believing such a sad sack excuse speaks volumes.
Click to expand...
I was going to find that good post from Joe about the way people treat each other and post this, but it applies equally here. 

https://www.facebook.com/harvardkennedyschool/videos/10154251688431403/

Let me say this once and then I’m probably never going to bother to say it again: 

You and everyone else on this forum who keeps telling me to whom I can bother to speak can kindly stop it. I don’t have to run my decision to discuss topics with anyone by you or anybody else and I don’t plan to.  And while people sometimes make me angry or frustrated I simply don’t feel contempt enough for them to write them off as completely worthless in discussion.  Please stop this. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Henry Ford said:
I was going to find that good post from Joe about the way people treat each other and post this, but it applies equally here. 

https://www.facebook.com/harvardkennedyschool/videos/10154251688431403/

Let me say this once and then I’m probably never going to bother to say it again: 

You and everyone else on this forum who keeps telling me to whom I can bother to speak can kindly stop it. I don’t have to run my decision to discuss topics with anyone by you or anybody else and I don’t plan to.  And while people sometimes make me angry or frustrated I simply don’t feel contempt enough for them to write them off as completely worthless in discussion.  Please stop this. 
Click to expand...
I am not "telling you" who to speak with or not - but I do believe at some point certain posters who willingly ignore significant on the record fact merit themselves as not beneficial to the overall discussion, and quite the opposite.  And perhaps if these patterns change, it may again be constructive in the overall sense, to engage them.

You can do what you wish in terms of who to converse with - but I think it's fair to point out when someone plays fast and loose with anything truthful or even the most basic of context (as if Trump was the only real estate developer to deal with tax and regulatory changes?).

My contention is that it's not worth the ongoing engagement when we see the same patterns of behavior. That doesn't mean I'm telling you, nor anyone, how to respond on your own, that's your choice.

Just as I've been chided for engaging too often with posters that some label as trolls, and who may engage in similar types of behavior (honestly, I thought at times by your yourself, but I don't know for sure, so won't make that contention), and then reflect and recognize if by doing so it only (1) degrades the conversation and (2) motivates them to continue such detrimental behavior (again, being willfully obtuse, genuinely clueless to the facts, or just looking to spread misinformation while knowing better to advance some agenda).

Finally, just as I won't "tell you" who to respond to or not, so too could I ask that you refrain from telling me to not comment when I feel a certain direction of conversation with a poster known to mislead and ignore essential and known facts and context only serves the end of muddying the waters, imo, on purpose.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

dozer
****Official DOJ Investigation into Trump, Fake Electors, Fraud, Etc.****
5 6 7
Replies
348
Views
11K
Sabertooth
Sabertooth
dozer
Ret. Lt. Gen Mike Flynn
2 3
Replies
104
Views
3K
Genxersrule
G
G
Mueller Investigation - Common Misconceptions (1-10)
Replies
0
Views
196
Guest
G

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 13 (members: 0, guests: 13)
Top