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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (8 Viewers)

TobiasFunke said:
The problem is bigger than that here, though.  The Select Committees on Intelligence are supposed to function as an important nonpartisan check on our intelligence agencies. They were created in the 1970s after Church Committee and others unearthed crazy CIA stuff going on without anyone's knowledge. Their descent into mindless partisanship means that important check is gone. 

BTW this is how you can tell that all the "deep state" conspiracy theory types are absolutely full of it.  If they actually cared about abuses by the intelligence community they would want to protect the integrity of the select committees and would be absolutely furious with Nunes for the damage he's done to the credibility of the HPSCI with his behavior and his refusal to collaborate across the aisle on a committee report? Has anyone heard a single negative peep from any of them on this?  I haven't.
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Hit the nail on the head.

At least the Senate Committee appears to be somewhat trying to do its job.

I guess there is still a reason Senators are held in much higher regard than House Reps. The House seems to be almost entirely made up of total hacks and nitwits. I say that as somebody who doesn't exactly hold the Senate in the highest regard either.

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
Hit the nail on the head.

At least the Senate Committee appears to be somewhat trying to do its job.

I guess there is still a reason Senators are held in much higher regard than House Reps. The House seems to be almost entirely made up of total hacks and nitwits. I say that as somebody who doesn't exactly hold the Senate in the highest regard either.
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It might be asking too much, but if the Dems retake the House it would be great if they proposed revamping the HPSCI to make it a 50/50 split regardless of who is in the majority.

 
Slapdash said:
This strikes me as the type of thing that would just be reversed when the GOP takes it back.  Like PayGo
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Yup, that's the problem.  And even if you're wrong, the Dems would be justified to suspect it given the GOP's behavior in recent years.  Another example of the damage being done by the Trump era and how hard it will be to unravel.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
In comparison to a country using their entire military to remove a president on foreign soil?...
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You are talking about war.  So I'm confused, are you saying that during wartime, things are allowed, so these same things should be allowed during non-war?  Or are you saying that we should treat this situation the same way as when the military removes a president (i.e., war)?  If so, it sounds like you agree that this is something that must be retaliated against, possibly by the British ally United States. 

 
Ditka Butkus said:
I see it as the status quo in all nations intelligence communities...
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So you are fine with innocent people who quite possibly will DIE from this attack?

Not spies, not agents of anyone - just people getting lunch... you are ok with them being murdered?

Talk about ceding any moral high ground. Or moral compass at all.  Man. 

What we've learned about our fellow Americans.  With allies like this...

 
TobiasFunke said:
Yup, that's the problem.  And even if you're wrong, the Dems would be justified to suspect it given the GOP's behavior in recent years.  Another example of the damage being done by the Trump era and how hard it will be to unravel.
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I'd suggest that the GOP has waged an asymmetrical war on our institutions for a few years now.  True, that Trump has taken it to 11 though.

 
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TobiasFunke said:
Yup, that's the problem.  And even if you're wrong, the Dems would be justified to suspect it given the GOP's behavior in recent years.  Another example of the damage being done by the Trump era and how hard it will be to unravel.
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well, if they could put something like this into place that could only be un-done by a super-majority, I'd be for it.  

 
Koya said:
So you are fine with innocent people who quite possibly will DIE from this attack?

Not spies, not agents of anyone - just people getting lunch... you are ok with them being murdered?

Talk about ceding any moral high ground. Or moral compass at all.  Man. 

What we've learned about our fellow Americans.  With allies like this...
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I’m going with the silver lining, and appreciating the notice. We have a lot of work to do in America once Dimwit Don is out of office.

 
Sweet J said:
You are talking about war.  So I'm confused, are you saying that during wartime, things are allowed, so these same things should be allowed during non-war?  Or are you saying that we should treat this situation the same way as when the military removes a president (i.e., war)?  If so, it sounds like you agree that this is something that must be retaliated against, possibly by the British ally United States. 
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If the Brits are sure Russia was involved and they are offended, then they should retaliate in whatever fashion they choose...When did you guys turn into such warmongers?

 
Amused to Death said:
Hey guys, its not like it was one of those Muslims that attacked someone on the streets of London.
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there would be instantaneous tweets if that were the case...no need for further investigation....tweet first, facts later when Muslim's are involved....Russia or White supremacists...we have to wait and see, investigate, get all the information...then never hear of it again...

 
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Banger said:
there would be instantaneous tweets if that were the case...no need for further investigation....tweet first, facts later when Muslim's are involved....Russia or White supremacists...we have to wait and see, investigate, get all the information.
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This wouldn't have happened if the UK had more guns.

 
Koya said:
So you are fine with innocent people who quite possibly will DIE from this attack?

Not spies, not agents of anyone - just people getting lunch... you are ok with them being murdered?

Talk about ceding any moral high ground. Or moral compass at all.  Man. 

What we've learned about our fellow Americans.  With allies like this...
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I deal with it the same way that we all did when we invaded foreign land and killed civilians in order to remove a country's president....I'm not real good with hypocrisy..

 
Ditka Butkus said:
If the Brits are sure Russia was involved and they are offended, then they should retaliate in whatever fashion they choose...When did you guys turn into such warmongers?
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This is an odd approach to take on a situation where chemical weapons were used in the midst of another country, where innocent folks have been affected, and goes against international law/norms.

Is it not clear that Russia, on the whole, is stepping up its aggressive actions toward its democratic rivals, consistently escalating the violations and basically forcing other countries to say "enough is enough"?

Doesn't it seem that Russia is constantly pushing the envelope to see just how much they can get away with before folks step up and push back?  Because, here in America, we have a president who is unwilling to call Russia to the carpet for much of anything, despite overwhelming support in congress for such actions.  

But according to you, it's no biggie...everyone does it, they hack, they kill people, they use chemical weapons in other countries...i mean what's the hullabaloo? 

 
Ditka Butkus said:
I deal with it the same way that we all did when we invaded foreign land and killed civilians in order to remove a country's president....I'm not real good with hypocrisy..
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But you seem to be suggesting not that it's hypocritical, but that it's OK because we have done it to.

If you were offended by our actions, then those by Russia were wrong as well.  You seem to be condoning them, not pointing out the hypocrisy in condemning those actions while our country has done bad things in the past.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
I deal with it the same way that we all did when we invaded foreign land and killed civilians in order to remove a country's president....I'm not real good with hypocrisy..
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So you are ok with both - so as not to be hypocritical?  Or against both?

Oh, nm, we already know you are ok with this. Which brings me right back to my comments on the matter

 
SinbadTheSailor said:
But you seem to be suggesting not that it's hypocritical, but that it's OK because we have done it to.

If you were offended by our actions, then those by Russia were wrong as well.  You seem to be condoning them, not pointing out the hypocrisy in condemning those actions while our country has done bad things in the past.
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please stop with the logic.

 
I took a lot of cold medicine today, so maybe it's just me, but I can't understand what the hell DB is trying to say.   Is it that state-sponsored terrorism is ok because war exists?  

 
SinbadTheSailor said:
But you seem to be suggesting not that it's hypocritical, but that it's OK because we have done it to.

If you were offended by our actions, then those by Russia were wrong as well.  You seem to be condoning them, not pointing out the hypocrisy in condemning those actions while our country has done bad things in the past.
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I didn't say they weren't.....It just doesn't register on my "oh my god meter"...

 
-fish- said:
I took a lot of cold medicine today, so maybe it's just me, but I can't understand what the hell DB is trying to say.   Is it that state-sponsored terrorism is ok because war exists?  
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we've killed people so who cares if Russia kills people

 
Ditka Butkus said:
SinbadTheSailor said:
But you seem to be suggesting not that it's hypocritical, but that it's OK because we have done it to.

If you were offended by our actions, then those by Russia were wrong as well.  You seem to be condoning them, not pointing out the hypocrisy in condemning those actions while our country has done bad things in the past.
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I didn't say they weren't.....It just doesn't register on my "oh my god meter"...
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We all have different meters.

In the context of what Russia has been doing lately globally, and the success they've been seeing disrupting foreign democracies, many folks with different "OMG meters" have been concerned for a while now.  It seems that Russia has been escalating their attacks on the free world, and apparently, at least in the case of the USA, with relative impunity.

To see further aggressions, and escalations, in one of our ally countries, is a significant deal, especially when they've used (reportedly) nerve agents in a manner that harmed many innocent UK citizens.  That seems, by almost any standards, to be a pretty brazen action, and for many folks, it seems to be the action of a country that feels emboldened by its successes and lack of consequences.

So the "OMG meters" other folks have is that this is a step up in seriousness, and we worry that if this isn't dealt with harshly, there will be further escalations and more consequences for those in our country or in country's we're allied with.

 
Bacon is Delicious said:
These aliens have got to quit ####### with us in this simulation. :lol:  We have actual republicans explaining to us that it's okay to release WMD's on the streets of London.
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cmon, Russia are our friends...they make mistakes every now and then that we should overlook but they bring so much more to our budding relationship.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
I deal with it the same way that we all did when we invaded foreign land and killed civilians in order to remove a country's president....I'm not real good with hypocrisy..
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Sorry, but this doesn't make sense to me.

If the US does something wrong in your eyes, it's no longer wrong if someone else does the same thing?

 
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