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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (13 Viewers)

What percentage of American voters do you believe feel Trump is “unfit for office”?
:hey:

I don't know about percentages,  but any President or candidate for literally any elected office in this nation that would spew this hateful tripe:

With a late-term abortion, "the mother meets with the doctor. They take care of the baby, they wrap the baby beautifully. And then the doctor and the mother determine whether or not they will execute the baby."

— Donald Trump on Saturday, April 27th, 2019 in a rally in Green Bay, Wis.

Is the very definition of unfit for office.

 
:hey:

I don't know about percentages,  but any President or candidate for literally any elected office in this nation that would spew this hateful tripe:

With a late-term abortion, "the mother meets with the doctor. They take care of the baby, they wrap the baby beautifully. And then the doctor and the mother determine whether or not they will execute the baby."

— Donald Trump on Saturday, April 27th, 2019 in a rally in Green Bay, Wis.

Is the very definition of unfit for office.
I would assert that the entire “unfit for office” dialogue has been pushed by the far left for political gain however those politicians  don’t understand the meaning of the phrase from a legal and political perspective.  

Now we see the  phrase thrown around on messageboards, basically mimicking far left politicians simply because they disagree with the President’s policy stances or even his personality. 

The use of the term in this instance  is intellectually dishonest at best. 

 
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I would assert that the entire “unfit for office” dialogue has been pushed by the far left for political gain however those politicians  don’t understand the meaning of the phrase from a legal and political perspective.  

Now we see the  phrase thrown around on messageboards, basically mimicking far left politicians simply because they disagree with the President’s policy stances or even his personality. 

The use of the term is intellectually dishonest at best. 
This has zero to do with the far left. 

Mans its quite intellectually honest to question his mental capacity given what we have seen and heard out of him.

 
I did. Read the links and accept the facts.
People have bias.  Right wing, left wing, middle.

I'm asking whether you're referencing any examples of right wing media bias.  Fox News, breitbart, etc?  Examples where they have gotten stories wrong, ran with incorrect conspiracy theories, where on-air personalities said things demonstrably wrong.  

Or is holding people accountable only something that's done for sources you disagree with?

 
People have bias.  Right wing, left wing, middle.

I'm asking whether you're referencing any examples of right wing media bias.  Fox News, breitbart, etc?  Examples where they have gotten stories wrong, ran with incorrect conspiracy theories, where on-air personalities said things demonstrably wrong.  

Or is holding people accountable only something that's done for sources you disagree with?
I’ve provided many examples of MSM bias. 

 
I’ve provided many examples of MSM bias. 
And there are plenty examples of right wing media bias as well.

Media sources aren't free from errors, wrong opinions, or incorrect stories.  The best sources do their utmost to provide the highest quality information.  That goes for right and left.

On the whole, the MSM has done an incredible job covering the Russia story, and has gotten almost all of it right.  Many bad takes, some wrong, some offensive, but on the whole pretty darn accurate.

Looking back at how Fox News covered this story for the past two years, you would be incredibly ill-informed based on the findings in the Mueller report if that was your only news source.

Folks in this thread have been all over much of what was reported in the Mueller thread, including obvious obstruction of justice, based largely on MSM reports because those on the right can't seem to report honestly on the topic of Trump and Russia.

So sure, you can find some few examples of errors, wrong/bad takes, or whatever, but take a person who has been solely listening to the MSM and take a person solely listening to right wing media, and 100 times out of 100 you'll have the MSM person better armed with accurate facts than those consuming a diet of right wing media.

 
I would assert that the entire “unfit for office” dialogue has been pushed by the far left for political gain however those politicians  don’t understand the meaning of the phrase from a legal and political perspective.  

Now we see the  phrase thrown around on messageboards, basically mimicking far left politicians simply because they disagree with the President’s policy stances or even his personality. 

The use of the term in this instance  is intellectually dishonest at best. 
In a vacuum, of course that statement alone isn't enough to invoke the 25th amendment.  I'm talking about what's morally correct and what's desirable behavior from those we elect to serve us. And Trump has proven over and over that he is the furthest thing from moral or desirable. 

This has also been pointed out ad nauseam: anti-Trump is NOT equal to far left, no matter how many times that lie gets parroted. 

 
:shrug:  . Its an opinion.  

I disagree with the opinion, and think the author is either deliberately shifting the concern of Barr's insertion of his own opinion - or is blind to the real concerns with Barr shaping the conversation of the report - in ways that are not supported by the report itself.
It made sense to me.  Barr wielded a lot of authority over the production of the report that he ultimately didn't exercise; I think people the most up in arms about the "rule of law" and kicking off impeachment proceedings are notably silent about the rule of law when it comes to the FBI's surveillance operation against a sitting President.  But I'm no lawyer.  

 
:hey:

I don't know about percentages,  but any President or candidate for literally any elected office in this nation that would spew this hateful tripe:

With a late-term abortion, "the mother meets with the doctor. They take care of the baby, they wrap the baby beautifully. And then the doctor and the mother determine whether or not they will execute the baby."

— Donald Trump on Saturday, April 27th, 2019 in a rally in Green Bay, Wis.

Is the very definition of unfit for office.
I am prolife but was sickened by Trump's exaggeration here.

 
What percentage of American voters do you believe feel Trump is “unfit for office”?
While we know the majority have disapproved of the President I suspect the majority do not think he is unfit but I suspect is well over 40%. I am guessing that there may even be some who approve of the job he is doing that don't think he is fit for the office.

 
On the whole, the MSM has done an incredible job covering the Russia story, and has gotten almost all of it right.  Many bad takes, some wrong, some offensive, but on the whole pretty darn accurate.
The MSM did everything they could to convince people like you that he was a Russian agent. They were 100% wrong and should never be taken seriously again. And they won't be by half the country. 

And you should be banned for typing that out. Mods c'mon, get this guy outta here. 

 
The MSM did everything they could to convince people like you that he was a Russian agent. They were 100% wrong and should never be taken seriously again. And they won't be by half the country. 

And you should be banned for typing that out. Mods c'mon, get this guy outta here. 
Banned?  For not breaking any forum rules?  

 
The MSM did everything they could to convince people like you that he was a Russian agent. They were 100% wrong and should never be taken seriously again. And they won't be by half the country. 

And you should be banned for typing that out. Mods c'mon, get this guy outta here. 
Lots of solid, reasonable, fact-based stuff here. Carry on, you're doing the lord's work.

 
The MSM did everything they could to convince people like you that he was a Russian agent. They were 100% wrong and should never be taken seriously again. And they won't be by half the country. 

And you should be banned for typing that out. Mods c'mon, get this guy outta here. 
MSM was 100% wrong?  That’s absurd.

The vast majority of solid news reporting as it related to Russia and Trump has been accurate. 

The entire time Trump has been saying it’s all a hoax, and he had nothing to do with Russia.  All of his comments were verifiable lies.

He was actively negotiating with russia for a hotel during his campaign.  He straight up lied to the people about this and reporting was correct.  Reporting has been correct and Trump and his cronies liars from nearly the beginning.

And you don’t get banned here for speaking truthfully.  Weird that you’d even suggest it.  

 
This poll from 18 months ago gives a range of 41% to 55% on the “unfit to serve” question. One could argue whether those numbers would have risen or dropped in the intervening months, but I suspect 15% is well below the true percentage.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2567
Only one demographic believes that Trump's aides were NOT working behind his back to keep him from making bad decisions:

Republicans
 
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm concerned about the precedent of diagnosing public figures without properly examining them. Because you know it won't be long before Liberty University becomes a diploma mill for Fox News talking heads who have a PhD in "Liberal Tears".

Nonetheless, I am a big proponent of publicizing the symptoms of various mental illnesses, such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Publicize the symptoms and let people connect the dots on their own. The more people read about NPD and Narcissistic Sociopaths, the more they will recognize Trump's behavior.

 
On its own?  Maybe not.  In combination with other things, Id say it evidence supporting the case of being mentally unfit (which was the whole point).
He’s not mentally unfit. He doesn’t have a “disorder” (beyond narcissism). He’s actually a very gifted individual, perhaps a genius in some ways.

He’s just a bad human being and a lousy President. No need to overanalyze. 

 
Herb said:
This has also been pointed out ad nauseam: anti-Trump is NOT equal to far left, no matter how many times that lie gets parroted
It could be a statement of how far out to the *cough* alt *cough* right the poster is if he claims anti Trump is "far left"

 
He’s not mentally unfit. He doesn’t have a “disorder” (beyond narcissism). He’s actually a very gifted individual, perhaps a genius in some ways.

He’s just a bad human being and a lousy President. No need to overanalyze. 
Agree to disagree with the bolded and the word "just"

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
- Apparently Gates corroborated Cohen's report that Jr told the Trump team about the TT meeting.

- And apparently everyone else at the meeting or who knew about it, including Trump, lied about it.
That is the key part of Trump's defense strategy.  When every in the inner-circle lies and won't actually be interviewed then you cannot really prove the things you have tons of evidence for.

 
There have been literally hundreds of fake news stories about’muh Russia’ over the last two and half years.  To deny this is is be unworthy of further engagement.

NBC just had to issue another major correction the other day

https://saraacarter.com/nbc-news-makes-correction-to-trump-putin-story/
The funny thing about this is Sarah Sanders confessed to lying as part of the obstruction effort, and here she is saying the White House has not talked to McGahn about testifying, which seems really, really dubious.

 
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On its own?  Maybe not.  In combination with other things, Id say it evidence supporting the case of being mentally unfit (which was the whole point).
He’s not mentally unfit. He doesn’t have a “disorder” (beyond narcissism). He’s actually a very gifted individual, perhaps a genius in some ways.

He’s just a bad human being and a lousy President. No need to overanalyze. 
Tim,

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a recognized mental illness in the DSM.

Here are some of the symptoms:

  • Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from other people
  • Fixation on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.
  • Self-perception of being unique, superior, and associated with high-status people and institutions
  • Need for continual admiration from others
  • Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others
  • Exploitation of others to achieve personal gain
  • Unwillingness to empathize with the feelings, wishes, and needs of other people
  • Intense envy of others, and the belief that others are equally envious of them
  • Pompous and arrogant demeanor
How many of those traits do you recognize in Trump?

Here's more from the Wiki article:

"People with NPD tend to exaggerate their skills, accomplishments, and their level of intimacy with people they consider high-status. This sense of superiority may cause them to monopolize conversations[9] or to become impatient or disdainful when others talk about themselves.[6] When their own ego is wounded by a real or perceived criticism, their anger can be disproportionate to the situation,[9] but typically, their actions and responses are deliberate and calculated.[6] Despite occasional flare-ups of insecurity, their self-image is primarily stable (i.e., overinflated).[6]

To the extent that people are pathologically narcissistic, they can be controlling, blaming, self-absorbed, intolerant of others' views, unaware of others' needs and the effects of their behavior on others, and insist that others see them as they wish to be seen.[6] Narcissistic individuals use various strategies to protect the self at the expense of others. They tend to devalue, derogate, insult, and blame others, and they often respond to threatening feedback with anger and hostility.[10] Since the fragile ego of individuals with NPD is hypersensitive to perceived criticism or defeat, they are prone to feelings of shame, humiliation, and worthlessness over minor or even imagined incidents.[9] They usually mask these feelings from others with feigned humility or by isolating themselves socially, or they may react with outbursts of rage, defiance, or by seeking revenge.[6][7] The merging of the "inflated self-concept" and the "actual self" is seen in the inherent grandiosity of narcissistic personality disorder. Also inherent in this process are the defense mechanisms of denial, idealization and devaluation.[11]"

Sound familiar at all?

Now, if you want to argue that NPD does not make a person "unfit" for office, that's fine. State your case. But I think it's naïve to say that Trump doesn't click every checkbox in that list of symptoms.

 
Is a disorder a mental illness now? I guess so.
This is a fair point. There are many people with NPD or other disorders (e.g., sociopaths) who are functional and productive members of society.

But they are still mentally ill.

And that illness must be taken into consideration when deciding whether to vote for the person (or whether to impeach the person). Because people with mental disorders are statistically more likely to make unstable decisions that could harm others. And if Trump's mental state continues to deteriorate, he won't just be harming members of his social circle.

 
Agree to disagree with the bolded and the word "just"
Agree with msommer and disagree with Tim. To use the word "genius" in the same paragraph as our dear leader is beyond laughable. If we could get solid testing from his high school or college days, we could settle that score since the term is well-defined. I would be willing to bet he is more accurately described by a term at the other end of the IQ scale, though. Without data, it's mere speculation albeit based on the things he says, does, and tweets, which, again, doesn't provide much evidence towards the "genius" end of the spectrum.

 
bananafish said:
Some Democrat just said on Fox News Sunday that they've reached a tentative agreement with Mueller for him to testify. 

ETA: Apparently it was Rhode Island Rep. David Cicilline and it will be May 15th.

https://twitter.com/MikeDelMoro/status/1125055310975180801
It occurs to me the last couple weeks how evident it is that many / most / almost all Trump supporters haven't so much as looked at the report but I'm guessing that is true for a lot of America. Mueller is important for a few reasons but one is it will make much more of the populace aware of what the investigation actually found.

 
Worth re-visiting:

Rep. Doug Collins‏Verified account @RepDougCollins

Democrats can cite no precedent for their demands for grand jury information from the #MuellerReport, but there’s a solution we should all be able to agree on: The Judiciary Committee should invite the Special Counsel to testify immediately.

Full letter - encouraging Nadler to invite Mueller to testify, without delay - in tweet

 
Worth re-visiting:

Rep. Doug Collins‏Verified account @RepDougCollins

Democrats can cite no precedent for their demands for grand jury information from the #MuellerReport, but there’s a solution we should all be able to agree on: The Judiciary Committee should invite the Special Counsel to testify immediately.

Full letter - encouraging Nadler to invite Mueller to testify, without delay - in tweet
Tweets don't count except when they do. 

 
It occurs to me the last couple weeks how evident it is that many / most / almost all Trump supporters haven't so much as looked at the report but I'm guessing that is true for a lot of America. Mueller is important for a few reasons but one is it will make much more of the populace aware of what the investigation actually found.
Whether we like it or not, America is a television society. Written words just aren't as powerful a medium as 30 second clips on tv. There are going to be a lot of soundbites that come out of Mueller, McGahn, Donaldson, etc testifying. And that's what is going to shape the narrative, not the report. It's why Barr's presser has been so powerful. 

 

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