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The Russia Investigation: Mueller - "Over the course of my career, I've seen a number of challenges to our democracy.The Russian govt's effort to interfere in our election is among the most serious."

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14 minutes ago, yak651 said:

So they are saying Trump lied when he was asked about it while boarding Air Force One?  I'm shocked!

They're saying Hope Hicks lied when she spoke to the Feds.

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17 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

They're saying Hope Hicks lied when she spoke to the Feds.

Nothing burgers!

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6 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

Nothing burgers!

Is that what he's going to offer to feed the US Soccer team if they visit?

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this whole thing is a nothingurger.  @matuski  is right.  It's a northingburger because::

  • the senate is currently controlled by republicans
  • the AG has gone to bat for the president, sweeping the most damning allegations under the rug.
  • senate republicans put party over principle and protect the president.
  • republican citizens put party over the good of the country, led by a complicit quasi-state run media.
  • house democrats can't get their #### together to come up with a unified, effective strategy to deal with the problem.

There really is no other rational way to read the situation.  Hell, Nixon was well on his way to being impeached before he resigned.

The fact that it is a nothingburger says more about our current political climate than the merits of the case.

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Trump admin has not imposed second round of Russia sanctions required by US law over poisoning of ex-spy hill.cm/YJRbK4e

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4 hours ago, moleculo said:

this whole thing is a nothingurger.  @matuski  is right.  It's a northingburger because::

  • the senate is currently controlled by republicans
  • the AG has gone to bat for the president, sweeping the most damning allegations under the rug.
  • senate republicans put party over principle and protect the president.
  • republican citizens put party over the good of the country, led by a complicit quasi-state run media.
  • house democrats can't get their #### together to come up with a unified, effective strategy to deal with the problem.

There really is no other rational way to read the situation.  Hell, Nixon was well on his way to being impeached before he resigned.

The fact that it is a nothingburger says more about our current political climate than the merits of the case.

Can't say I disagree, aside from the most glaring omission (below).  Most of this certainly went into the OBVIOUS observation from day 1 that this would utterly fall flat on its face like Benghazi.

To add:

  • Democrats put party over the good of the country as well, teaching anyone who is paying attention that left = right when it comes to partisanship.  

Nothing burger.

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4 minutes ago, matuski said:

 

teaching anyone who is paying attention that left = right when it comes to partisanship.  

 

Truly the life lesson learned from this whole experience where our country somehow elected a man like Trump into the most powerful office on the planet.

Brought out the worst in everyone - and to my utter surprise the left's ugly is every bit a match for the right's ugly.  3 years ago I'd have never imagined this truth.

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24 minutes ago, matuski said:

Truly the life lesson learned from this whole experience where our country somehow elected a man like Trump into the most powerful office on the planet.

Brought out the worst in everyone - and to my utter surprise the left's ugly is every bit a match for the right's ugly.  3 years ago I'd have never imagined this truth.

You have to be kidding.

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I must've missed when Obama led chants against a member of the Republican Party, calling for them to be locked up or sent back to where they came from.

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Posted (edited)

Prosecutors weighed DOJ policy blocking indictment of a sitting president in closing Trump hush-money probe

>>Federal prosecutors' decision to end an investigation into hush money payments to women claiming affairs with Donald Trump relied at least in part on long-standing Justice Department policy that a sitting president cannot be charged with a crime, a person familiar with the matter said Thursday.

The Justice Department told a federal judge on Monday that it had "effectively concluded" its investigation into efforts to silence the women in the final months of the 2016 campaign, but did not explain why it had done so. Prosecutors have said the payoffs violated a federal law that restricts campaign donations. 

A person familiar with the case, who was not authorized to discuss it publicly, said it was unclear whether prosecutors made a determination that they had sufficient evidence to bring a case against Trump or anyone other than his former personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, who pleaded guilty last year. But the Justice Department's opinion that a president cannot be indicted factored into the decision to end the probe, the person said.

Federal prosecutors had repeatedly placed Trump at the center of the effort to silence pornographic actress Stormy Daniels and former Playboy model Karen McDougal during the chaotic run-up to the 2016 election. Last year, they alleged in a court filing that Cohen had orchestrated illegal hush-money payments "in coordination with and at the direction of" Trump. And it revealed in unsealed court records on Friday that Trump participated in phone calls about the payments to Daniels. 

The judgment by federal prosecutors in New York to take no further action in the wide-ranging inquiry tracks a decision earlier this year by former special counsel Robert Mueller, who cited the same Justice Department policy when he declined to make a determination about whether Trump's efforts to derail that investigation amounted to a crime. 

The Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel concluded in 2000 that "a sitting President is constitutionally immune from indictment and criminal prosecution." That view has never been tested in court but is binding on federal prosecutors. 

As in the Mueller inquiry, which outlined 10 instances in which Trump sought to thwart the special counsel's inquiry, documents revealed Thursday put then-candidate Trump in middle of a frantic effort to fend off damaging disclosures about his personal conduct just a month before the 2016 election.

In the documents, the FBI described a series of conversations in the days after a leaked Access Hollywood outtake showed Trump boasting about grabbing women by the genitals about preventing Daniels from airing her own claims of having had an affair with Trump years earlier. 

Authorities laid out a timeline of emails, text messages and phone calls – some involving Trump himself – that "concerned the need to prevent" Daniels from going public with her story. 

Trump denied knowledge of the payments after they became public. But the FBI told a judge it had obtained telephone records showing he participated in some of the first conversations about the scheme, which prosecutors have said violated federal campaign finance laws. 

Federal prosecutors said in court filings last year that Cohen orchestrated payments to Daniels and McDougal, "in coordination with and at the direction of" Trump. The documents unsealed Thursday offer the first clear account of the extent of Trump's involvement in that effort, as the Republican nominee's campaign floundered just weeks before the election.

Ultimately, it was Cohen – not Trump – who was charged and convicted for the scheme. He is serving a three-year sentence in federal prison related to tax evasion and the hush-money scheme that amounted to illegal campaign finance violations. He also pleaded guilty to Congress about efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow during the 2016 campaign.

"Cohen's commission of two campaign finance crimes on the eve of the 2016 election for president of the United States struck a blow to one of the core goals of the federal campaign finance laws: transparency," prosecutors asserted prior to Cohen's sentencing.

In the same document, however, prosecutors indicated that Cohen was acting on behalf of Trump who they then-described in gauzy law enforcement vernacular as "Individual 1." 

..."I and members of The Trump Organization were directed by Mr. Trump to handle the Stormy Daniels matter; including making the hush money payment,” Cohen said in a statement Thursday. “The conclusion of the investigation exonerating The Trump Organization's role should be of great concern to the American people and investigated by Congress and the Department of Justice.” ...<<

- USA Today.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, mrip541 said:

You have to be kidding.

I was locked in with you until recently.

Partisan is partisan.

If your identity includes a political party or side.. go ahead and put yourself in the pile.

Edited by matuski
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20 minutes ago, matuski said:

I was locked in with you until recently.

Partisan is partisan.

If your identity includes a political party or side.. go ahead and put yourself in the pile.

:lmao:

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

:lmao:

The inability to see the nothing burger coming is a clue.  I think you are among those that missed it.

Obviously partisanship clouds both sides ability to evaluate clearly.

Edited by matuski

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1 minute ago, matuski said:

The inability to see the nothing burger coming is a clue.  

Obviously partisanship clouds both sides ability to evaluate clearly.

:lmao:

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Denial still pervades the left here.

The most losing cause the left has ever undertaken in my lifetime, and yet so many can't let it go.

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6 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

"Both sides" Love it!

Demonstrably the case now, unfortunately.

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5 minutes ago, matuski said:

Demonstrably the case now, unfortunately.

You support a demagogue. How did you not see it coming?

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14 hours ago, Mookie said:

I doubt Mueller goes so far as to say the Trump committed a crime, but he will likely be pressed with "But for the fact that he is a sitting President, did probable cause exist for charging the President with obstruction of justice?  If so, how many separate counts of obstruction were supported by that probable cause?"  I look forward to his answers.

Mueller explained in his report why he can't answer that question. Since Trump isn't innocent, to answer that question would be to accuse him of a crime, and it would be unfair to accuse him of a crime that he can't be charged with.

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1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

I'm really enjoying seeing someone above the law here.

Seems like a pretty big flaw...

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2 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

I'm really enjoying seeing someone above the law here.

The United States of America Liberty and Justice for All Most (because the POTUS is above the law according to the shill AG)

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Posted (edited)

Trump, Cohen Maintained Regular Contact While Hush Payments Were Arranged

Newly public documents describe conversations between Cohen and President Trump concerning payments to two women

***

Donald Trump and his onetime lawyer Michael Cohen were in particularly close contact while Mr. Cohen was working to arrange a hush-payment scheme before the 2016 presidential election, according to newly public documents that provide the most detailed account to date of discussions among members of Mr. Trump’s inner circle in the final weeks of the campaign.

The documents describe in detail the sequence of conversations Mr. Cohen had with Mr. Trump, National Enquirer editor Dylan Howard, American Media Inc. Chief Executive David Pecker and campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks as he was working to arrange payments to two women who alleged affairs with Mr. Trump, including Stephanie Clifford, a former adult-film actress known professionally as Stormy Daniels. Mr. Trump has denied having the affairs.

“Based on the timing of these calls, and the content of the text messages and emails, I believe that at least some of these communications concerned the need to prevent Clifford from going public, particularly in the wake of the Access Hollywood story,” a Federal Bureau of Investigation agent wrote in an April 2018 affidavit made public Thursday, referring to a tape that was released in October 2016 showing Mr. Trump making lewd comments about women about a decade earlier.

The documents provide the most detailed look yet inside the 18-month investigation that led to the implication of a sitting president in federal crimes and sent Mr. Cohen, Mr. Trump’s lawyer for more than a decade, to prison for three years. While prosecutors said in a December court filing that Mr. Cohen arranged the hush payments at Mr. Trump’s direction, they hadn’t previously made public details of the two men’s communications during that period.

They also revealed panicked efforts to respond to a Wall Street Journal article published days before the 2016 election that made public payments from American Media, the National Enquirer’s publisher, to Karen McDougal, a former Playboy model and one of the women who alleged an affair with Mr. Trump.

Hours before the article published, Mr. Cohen wrote to Mr. Howard, “He’s pissed,” which the affidavit said was a reference to Mr. Trump.

Mr. Cohen was in unusually frequent contact with Mr. Trump as he was working on arranging the payments, routinely calling him minutes after speaking with Mr. Pecker or Mr. Howard about them, according to the agent’s affidavit. When it appeared a deal to buy the silence of Ms. Clifford was going to fall through, Mr. Cohen’s first call after speaking to Ms. Clifford’s lawyer was to Mr. Trump.

On the morning of Oct. 26, 2016, a day before sending $130,000 to Ms. Clifford, Mr. Cohen called Mr. Trump twice. Less than 30 minutes later, Mr. Cohen sent emails to the person who had incorporated the limited-liability companies through which he planned to wire the payment, asking for filing receipts.

On Oct. 28, 2016, after Mr. Cohen had finalized the transaction with Ms. Clifford’s lawyer, Mr. Cohen spoke to Mr. Trump for five minutes.

The frequency of calls between Mr. Cohen and Mr. Trump that month was a marked increase over previous months in 2016, the affidavit said. The pair spoke once a month from May through July, didn’t speak in August and spoke twice in September. In October, they spoke at least five times in three weeks, and Mr. Cohen tried to call his boss on at least another two occasions.

Mr. Trump has denied wrongdoing and has offered varying accounts of whether he was aware of the payments Mr. Cohen arranged during the 2016 election. In November 2018, the Journal published an article documenting Mr. Trump’s extensive involvement in the hush-payment scheme.

Democratic lawmakers on Thursday called for Mr. Trump to face charges for his involvement in the hush-payment scheme. Justice Department policy bars charging a sitting president.

“The inescapable conclusion from all of the public materials available now is that there was ample evidence to charge Donald Trump with the same criminal election law violations for which Michael Cohen pled guilty and is now serving time in prison,” Rep. Adam Schiff (D., Calif.), the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said Thursday.

...The committee’s chairman, Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D., N.Y.), in a letter to Ms. Hicks’s attorney on Thursday evening, asked Ms. Hicks to clarify her testimony by Aug. 15.

A spokesman for American Media declined to comment. Lawyers for Mr. Howard and Ms. Hicks didn’t respond to requests for comment.

When the Journal contacted the Trump campaign for comment for the November 2016 article about American Media’s payment to Ms. McDougal, Mr. Cohen had several conversations with Ms. Hicks, Mr. Pecker and Mr. Howard and sought to have Ms. McDougal put out a statement. “We just need her to disappear,” Mr. Howard wrote in a text message to Mr. Cohen, the documents show.

“I think it’ll be ok pal. I think it’ll fade into the distance,” Mr. Howard wrote again to Mr. Cohen of the Journal article, hours before it published.

Mr. Cohen also sent a text to Mr. Pecker: “The boss just tried calling you. Are you free?”

The morning after the Journal article published, Mr. Cohen sent a text to Ms. Hicks saying that the article was “getting little to no traction.” Ms. Hicks responded: “Same. Keep praying!! It’s working!”

Mr. Pecker spoke with Mr. Trump later that morning, according to the affidavit.

U.S. District Judge William H. Pauley III ordered the previously redacted materials to be made public Wednesday, after the Manhattan U.S. attorney’s office advised the court that it had concluded the aspects of its campaign-finance investigation that justified redacting those materials. In a July 15 letter to Judge Pauley, prosecutors said they had also concluded its investigation into whether “certain individuals ... made false statements, gave false testimony or otherwise obstructed justice in connection with this investigation.”

The Journal previously reported that prosecutors were examining discrepancies between Mr. Cohen’s account and that of Allen Weisselberg, Trump Organization’s longtime chief financial officer who testified before a grand jury last summer.

Prosecutors had sought to include certain redactions in Thursday’s materials to protect the privacy of third parties in the investigation, but were rebuffed by Judge Pauley, who said the campaign-finance violations had “weighty public ramifications” and were a “matter of national importance.”

Several of the people mentioned in the documents spoke to investigators, including Ms. Hicks, Mr. Howard and Mr. Pecker, who was granted immunity for his testimony.

According to the affidavit, the FBI justified its April 2018 raid of Mr. Cohen’s home, office and hotel room in part by saying they believed that the search would turn up evidence of communications between Mr. Cohen, Mr. Trump and Trump campaign associates about the hush payments.

Mr. Cohen pleaded guilty in August 2018 to two campaign-finance violations connected to the hush-money payments to Ms. Clifford and Ms. McDougal. Mr. Cohen also pleaded guilty to tax evasion as well as making false statements to banks and to Congress, and began a three-year prison sentence in May.

In the months since his guilty plea, Manhattan federal prosecutors had continued to probe the possible involvement of others at the Trump Organization in Mr. Cohen’s campaign-finance violations. They haven’t disclosed any indictments of any executives at the company.

“The conclusion of the investigation exonerating the Trump Organization’s role should be of great concern to the American people and investigated by Congress and The Department of Justice,” Mr. Cohen said in a statement from prison Thursday.

***

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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Posted (edited)
Quote

In January, one month after Cohen was sentenced to three years in prison, prosecutors requested interviews with executives at the company, CNN reported. But prosecutors never followed up on their initial request, people familiar with the matter said, and the interviews never took place.

Meanwhile, there has been no contact between the Manhattan US Attorney's office and officials at the Trump Organization in more than five months, one person familiar with the matter said.

- CNN

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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22 hours ago, Bucky86 said:

I must've missed when Obama led chants against a member of the Republican Party, calling for them to be locked up or sent back to where they came from.

I couldn’t hear anything other than that tan suit

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4 minutes ago, joffer said:

I couldn’t hear anything other than that tan suit

And the Muslim prayer rug

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28 minutes ago, joffer said:

I couldn’t hear anything other than that tan suit

He wasn't wearing it because it had Dijon mustard on it...

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The most remarkable aspect of the latest Michael Cohen revelations is: it’s not remarkable at all. Nobody cares. Not the media, not liberals, certainly not Trump supporters. 

Prior to Donald Trump’s election in 2016, this story by itself would be the biggest political scandal in American history, exceeding Watergate. A US President pays hush money to a corrupt attorney in order to keep an extramarital affair from the public. His signature is on the check! There is tape of him agreeing to this. Don’t bother to bring up Bill Clinton: if Bill Clinton had written checks to Monica Lewinsky to make her go away, he would have been removed from office before his term was done. 

But in 2019 this sort of thing is met with a collective mass yawn of indifference. 

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The most remarkable aspect of the latest Michael Cohen revelations is: it’s not remarkable at all. Nobody cares. Not the media, not liberals, certainly not Trump supporters. 

Prior to Donald Trump’s election in 2016, this story by itself would be the biggest political scandal in American history, exceeding Watergate. A US President pays hush money to a corrupt attorney in order to keep an extramarital affair from the public. His signature is on the check! There is tape of him agreeing to this. Don’t bother to bring up Bill Clinton: if Bill Clinton had written checks to Monica Lewinsky to make her go away, he would have been removed from office before his term was done. 

But in 2019 this sort of thing is met with a collective mass yawn of indifference. 

Apparently the OLC memos have come into play again. 

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3 hours ago, timschochet said:

The most remarkable aspect of the latest Michael Cohen revelations is: it’s not remarkable at all. Nobody cares. Not the media, not liberals, certainly not Trump supporters. 

Prior to Donald Trump’s election in 2016, this story by itself would be the biggest political scandal in American history, exceeding Watergate. A US President pays hush money to a corrupt attorney in order to keep an extramarital affair from the public. His signature is on the check! There is tape of him agreeing to this. Don’t bother to bring up Bill Clinton: if Bill Clinton had written checks to Monica Lewinsky to make her go away, he would have been removed from office before his term was done. 

But in 2019 this sort of thing is met with a collective mass yawn of indifference. 

The reason I didn't vote for Trump was that I knew who he was. He is an awful person who lies, cheats and has no morals. I just kind of assumed everyone else knew that too, yet they voted for him anyway. 2016 was a litmus test of the American electorate. Exceptionalism turned out to be a fairy tale. Trump is America.

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1 hour ago, ericttspikes said:

Exceptionalism turned out to be a fairy tale. Trump is America.

It may very well be a fairy tale, but no, Trump is not America.

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5 hours ago, timschochet said:

The most remarkable aspect of the latest Michael Cohen revelations is: it’s not remarkable at all. Nobody cares. Not the media, not liberals, certainly not Trump supporters. 

Prior to Donald Trump’s election in 2016, this story by itself would be the biggest political scandal in American history, exceeding Watergate. A US President pays hush money to a corrupt attorney in order to keep an extramarital affair from the public. His signature is on the check! There is tape of him agreeing to this. Don’t bother to bring up Bill Clinton: if Bill Clinton had written checks to Monica Lewinsky to make her go away, he would have been removed from office before his term was done. 

But in 2019 this sort of thing is met with a collective mass yawn of indifference. 

it's not indifference on both sides of the political divide.

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1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

It may very well be a fairy tale, but no, Trump is not America.

Unfortunately he does represent a lot of what’s going on in our reality TV, drama addicted, social media society today.  In many ways he is us as he is the personification of the American society flaws.  

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7 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

It may very well be a fairy tale, but no, Trump is not America.

Trump is 40% of America and that number seems firm. This is shaping up to be a long term cold Civil War.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/17/2019 at 1:08 PM, bananafish said:

5 minutes to get the facts about Trump and the right-wing media or, as I expect you to do, just dismiss it with a bad attempt at humor ("I hope this explosion made you feel better") and go on your merry way. At least then we'll know what your agenda is and how seriously to take your posts. 

 

On 7/18/2019 at 4:08 AM, supermike80 said:

Honey.....The media is biased.  This isn't new news.   

Thanks for letting me know how much merit you deserve. I'd been giving you the benefit of the doubt but I know better now.

Bias is one thing; I find it distasteful, but with the adversarial system we have I don't know that we can do much better, especially when the market is so rabidly partisan. Some outlets are better than others, but on the whole I don't see an obvious remedy.

Outright lying is another thing altogether. They aren't trying to inform but to misinform. Trump hasn't uttered an honest word in months (maybe ever?), aided and abetted by the politicians and the media on his "side". Any Republican courageous enough to tell the truth is torn apart and consumed. The highest value anyone can have in today's Republican party is loyalty to Trump, no matter what behavior has to be excused and normalized to prove it. I've never seen anything like it. 

I must have missed all the times that major publications payed hush money to a candidate's mistresses. All the times major news networks quashed negative stories to help a candidate's chances. Another time when demonstrably false "alternative facts" were the marching orders for an entire wing of our political system.

Some claim this isn't new. Or isn't news. But that's just proof that they've bought in as well. How much can you get for selling out your country for fealty to one man?

Edited by bananafish
typo
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2 hours ago, bananafish said:

Some claim this isn't new. Or isn't news. But that's just proof that they've bought in as well. How much can you get for selling out your country for fealty to one man?

They've been conned by a con man. Many won't believe it and most will deny it but if one looks deeper, the willing need to be conned to live. It's the biggest psychological experiment and the insane are running the asylum. History is and will not be kind to them... that doesn't mean the sane sit idly by though. The youngins need to vote and vote in droves.

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2 minutes ago, Mario Kart said:

The youngins need to vote and vote in droves.

And that is the primary reason that the Dems should not put up Biden, Bernie, or Warren.

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Just now, The Z Machine said:

And that is the primary reason that the Dems should not put up Biden, Bernie, or Warren.

Completely agree. It boggles my mind that we went from Clinton (46), Bush (54), Obama (47), years of age to Trump (70) or even Hillary (68) when elected. Harris, the one I think who should get the nod will be (56) if elected. It boggles my mind for the Dems to be pushing for someone in the upper 60's or 70's to be President. Makes zero sense.

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20 minutes ago, Mario Kart said:

They've been conned by a con man. Many won't believe it and most will deny it but if one looks deeper, the willing need to be conned to live. It's the biggest psychological experiment and the insane are running the asylum. History is and will not be kind to them... that doesn't mean the sane sit idly by though. The youngins need to vote and vote in droves.

I agree with you but the racists that voted for him were not conned at all.

Not calling all Trump fans racist - but when a racist goes to vote, they are voting Trump.

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Posted (edited)

I strongly agree that the Dems need a younger nominee to appeal to young voters, but the age contrast is important across all voters.

Age wasn’t an issue at the debates with Clinton, and wouldn’t be with Biden Bernie Warren. But putting up a 40’s or 50’s nominee will make Trump appear very old in contrast. His senility will be highlighted.

I believe most age groups prefer a middle aged candidate over a very old candidate. Anyone over 50, 60, 70 knows how much more competent and energetic they were when they were a little bit younger. Old people want younger candidates too. 

Edited by randall146
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3 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

And that is the primary reason that the Dems should not put up Biden, Bernie, or Warren.

Isn't Bernie overwhelmingly popular with the youths?  Most popular politician in America still?  I think people get excited more by ideas than whatever identity mold the person fits into. 

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4 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

And that is the primary reason that the Dems should not put up Biden, Bernie, or Warren.

I think any white guy that isn't an octogenarian destroys Trump. 

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This thread was the biggest swing and a miss I have ever witnessed. Going back and reading through random pages makes me laugh hard. Thank you for the entertainment and the continued entertainment as you boys grasp straws.

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DOJ sent a letter to limit Muellers testimony. He’s a private citizen. Is this legal? Once again Trump, and his DOJ, are showing that they’re not worried at all since he’s been “totally exonerated!”

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1 minute ago, Bucky86 said:

DOJ sent a letter to limit Muellers testimony. He’s a private citizen. Is this legal? Once again Trump, and his DOJ, are showing that they’re not worried at all since he’s been “totally exonerated!”

And Trump tweeting about it again today.

They are scared of what the democrats might ask him...and maybe even more scared of how well he answers the Republicans bogus deflection.

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6 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

DOJ sent a letter to limit Muellers testimony. He’s a private citizen. Is this legal? Once again Trump, and his DOJ, are showing that they’re not worried at all since he’s been “totally exonerated!”

Limit how?

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