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The Russia Investigation: Mueller - "Over the course of my career, I've seen a number of challenges to our democracy.The Russian govt's effort to interfere in our election is among the most serious."

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27 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

 

How does this work again?

- Kushner bought from Leviev with Blackstone money?

Having a hard time unpacking this one, but it's complicated.

I started actually paying attention to this after Flynn was fired because I smelled blood in the water. Like saintfool, I'm already pretty exhausted. I have no idea how Khan hasn't burnt out yet.

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Why Russian Military Aggression Has Backfired on Moscow

- Tthe precept in the Steele dossier for the Trump campaign to trade off 1. support of Ukraine platform at the RNC (along with 2. Euro defence commitments NATO relevance) for WL plausible deniability, was:

Quote

to deflect attention away from Ukraine, a priority for PUTIN who needed to cauterise the subject.

- I never understood this phrase.

- From the article:

Quote

Altogether, Eastern Europe has become the most rapidly militarizing region on earth, which is not to Moscow’s advantage.

“I think [Russia’s military policies] have failed because they stimulated national resistance and the beginning of NATO rearmament,” Stephen Blank, senior fellow for Russia at the American Foreign Policy Council, told The Daily Signal.

- One way to look at the Russian invasions of Georgia and Ukraine is they block any attempts by those countries to enter NATO.

However once that is accomplished, followed by declaring independent republics in Ossetia and Donbas, then what?

Today is the 3rd anniversary of the invasion of Ukraine, so it seems like as good a time as any to ask what was meant by that reference to 'cauterise'?

Feb. 2014 Russia goes into Ukraine to neutralize it from turning west (joining the EU & NATO) when Yanukovych is ousted, ~June 2016 Russia allegedly is working with Manafort/Trump to destroy the EU and sideline NATO altogether.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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Fox News article on the Felix Sater connection, he was interviewed for this article.

Here's what Sater had to say..

Quote

"What could be wrong in helping stop a war and trying to achieve peace? I have done so much for my country and thought that promoting peace was a good thing,” he told Fox News. “People are getting killed, it's a war."

 

Quote

"I was absolutely not a link between the Trump campaign and the Russian government,” he said. “I have no contact with anyone in the Russian government."

 

Quote

"The press refers to me as 'a Russian businessman.' I came here when I was 7 years old,” he said. “I am an American businessman of Russian descent, who happens to have been born in Russia."

 

Quote

'It feels horrible and terrible to be dragged through the mud for no reason whatsoever," he said.

 

It's hard to say whether or not Fox is just softening up his image here, but the mere fact that they're even reporting on it..I don't know.

Edited by SameSongNDance

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38 minutes ago, SameSongNDance said:

Fox News article on the Felix Sater connection, he was interviewed for this article.

Here's what Sater had to say..

 

 

 

 

It's hard to say whether or not Fox is just softening up his image here, but the mere fact that they're even reporting on it..I don't know.

Hmmm... I think I've seen this one before...

 

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JΞSŦΞR ✪ ΔCŦUAL³³º¹ ‏@th3j35t3r  16m16 minutes ago

More

Russians connected w/ dossier, who since 'died' Erovinkin, Krivov, Karlov, Melanin, Chandelon, Polshikov, Churkin Not bad for 'fake news'

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5 hours ago, PlasmaDogPlasma said:

Of course the address number of the building is 666

Good thing he's not a performance artist who hosts dinner parties, or this would go crazy.

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Even if none of this produces anything, it's already had an effect, because so far Trump has completely backtracked on his rhetoric with regards to Russia: he's not lifting any sanctions, his people are committed to NATO, etc.

We'll see if it lasts.

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24 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Awesome interviewer.   Carter Page now on record with multiple denials, which is might prove to  be  very inconvenient in the future.

 

 

 Btw, carter page was :wolf:y as hell; in no way did he sound like someone refuting false accusations.    

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1 hour ago, The Future Champs said:

Awesome interviewer. Carter Page now on record with multiple denials, which is might prove to be very inconvenient in the future.

 

 

Btw, carter page was :wolf:y as hell; in no way did he sound like someone refuting false accusations.

I posted the Carter Page interview a few pages back. Look at the dudes face when he was being questioned on the 19% stake in Rosneft. I'm not a body language expert but I think it's safe to say that this dude shouldn't play poker anytime soon.

 

Also, here's an NYT article titled Contradicting Trump on Russia: Russian Officials that should make the rounds today. Maybe it's because I'm tired but I'm not sure there's any new information in here although people seem to think it's a big deal on twitter, facebook and etc. I thought we already knew that Team Trump was in contact with Rybkov and Kislyak through-out the election. Maybe someone can enlighten me when I wake up.

Edited by SameSongNDance
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6 hours ago, The Future Champs said:

Awesome interviewer.   Carter Page now on record with multiple denials, which is might prove to  be  very inconvenient in the future.

 

 

 Btw, carter page was :wolf:y as hell; in no way did he sound like someone refuting false accusations.    

agreed

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6 hours ago, The Future Champs said:

Awesome interviewer.   Carter Page now on record with multiple denials, which is might prove to  be  very inconvenient in the future.

 Btw, carter page was :wolf:y as hell; in no way did he sound like someone refuting false accusations.    

Proxy Champs

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7 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This man, Jon Snow is someone younger journalists can learn from.  He extracts information from Page easily all the while being polite about it all.

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6 hours ago, SameSongNDance said:

I posted the Carter Page interview a few pages back. Look at the dudes face when he was being questioned on the 19% stake in Rosneft. I'm not a body language expert but I think it's safe to say that this dude shouldn't play poker anytime soon.

 

Also, here's an NYT article titled Contradicting Trump on Russia: Russian Officials that should make the rounds today. Maybe it's because I'm tired but I'm not sure there's any new information in here although people seem to think it's a big deal on twitter, facebook and etc. I thought we already knew that Team Trump was in contact with Rybkov and Kislyak through-out the election. Maybe someone can enlighten me when I wake up.

Yeah sorry you sure did, I couldn't remember if it was the whole interview or not but now yeah I think you did. The refresher look was interesting to me in light of the Sater interview article.

It's funny to me too, Page and Sater showing up for interviews reminds me of the scene in Millers Crossing where Bernie threatens Tom by alluding that he might just starting eating out at restaurants.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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7 hours ago, SameSongNDance said:

I posted the Carter Page interview a few pages back. Look at the dudes face when he was being questioned on the 19% stake in Rosneft. I'm not a body language expert but I think it's safe to say that this dude shouldn't play poker anytime soon.

 

Also, here's an NYT article titled Contradicting Trump on Russia: Russian Officials that should make the rounds today. Maybe it's because I'm tired but I'm not sure there's any new information in here although people seem to think it's a big deal on twitter, facebook and etc. I thought we already knew that Team Trump was in contact with Rybkov and Kislyak through-out the election. Maybe someone can enlighten me when I wake up.

Nothing really new in the second article, just the nagging question:  If there is nothing nefarious going on, why does Trump keep lying about it?

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Tellya Rove, the funniest thing about that is it indicates that someone feels the need to link up Churkin and McCain because they know there are whispers about Trump and Churkin having a relationship going back 30 years and as recently as 2013 in Moscow.

Quote

 

Lana Ashford @LanaAshford1 23h23 hours ago

@StevePieczenik wiki leaks just released John McCain's fundraising appeal to Vitaly Churkin/Russia Of Sep 29 2008.

 

 

- Oh it was WL itself.

Weird, almost like they're deflecting with an imagined conflict.

The story was reported back in 2008.

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53 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Generic mailer. BFD.

Whats the source for that doc?

Why was Churkin identified as a potential donor?   He's not even a citizen and presumably not registered to vote.  I vote and I don't get those letters.   How did he get on their mailing list?

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4 minutes ago, Rove! said:

Why was Churkin identified as a potential donor?   He's not even a citizen and presumably not registered to vote.  I vote and I don't get those letters.   How did he get on their mailing list?

You probably don't have an address on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.

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41 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Tellya Rove, the funniest thing about that is it indicates that someone feels the need to link up Churkin and McCain because they know there are whispers about Trump and Churkin having a relationship going back 30 years and as recently as 2013 in Moscow.

 

- Oh it was WL itself.

Weird, almost like they're deflecting with an imagined conflict.

The story was reported back in 2008.

Almost like Wikileaks goes out of their way to defend Russia...

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3 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

You probably don't have an address on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.

So john McCain soil its donations from non citizens if they live on the Upper East Side of Manhattan?

 

that doesn't sound legal

 

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6 minutes ago, Rove! said:

So john McCain soil its donations from non citizens if they live on the Upper East Side of Manhattan?

 

that doesn't sound legal

 

take it up with 2008.

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16 minutes ago, Rove! said:

So john McCain soil its donations from non citizens if they live on the Upper East Side of Manhattan?

 

that doesn't sound legal

 

soil?

 

solicited?

 

Start a John McCain thread if you want to discuss it.

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9 minutes ago, The Future Champs said:

soil?

 

solicited?

 

Start a John McCain thread if you want to discuss it.

We've gone from But Hillary to But Obama all the way to But McCain!

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Interesting new rundown of the Steele Dossier. It looks like this blogger will be building things out gradually.

Quote

I have broken down the Steele dossier into individual allegations and their sources. The entire breakdown can be found here. I’ll work through the major claims in the dossier and their support within the dossier, presented here in the table form of the breakdown. I am not evaluating the truthfulness of the claims. That requires material outside the dossier.

... Much more can be done with the breakdown of the Steele dossier. I am collecting relevant information within its framework and plan more posts.

 

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2 minutes ago, PlasmaDogPlasma said:

We had a But Lincoln in there too.

Ha, so true. And Trump lassoed Jefferson into attacking freedom of speech as well.

TJ's like, "You can leave me out of it, *#######."

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From July:

Quote

The Real Winner of the RNC: Vladimir Putin

The Trump campaign continues its terrifying effort to cozy up to the Kremlin.

Donald Trump’s convention has been marked by gross incompetence in all areas save one: He’s been highly effective in moving the Republican Party toward Vladimir Putin. The deftness of this reversal of policy is so anomalous that we need to consider its causes, as well as its consequences.

To recap: The Trump campaign showed little interest in the writing of the Republican Party platform, even as the document evolved to undermine the nominee’s political strategy and took stances at odds with his own. But his aides did intervene aggressively in one committee meeting. They pushed hard to soften the platform’s stance on providing military assistance to Ukraine. When pressed about this change, Trump aides literally ran in the other direction.

I just asked Sam Clovis, top policy adviser to Trump, about platform language on Russia. "I can't talk about," he said and walked away.

— Ryan Lizza (@RyanLizza) July 20, 2016

Then, on Wednesday, Trump told the New York Times that he would abandon our nearly seven decades–old commitment to collective security in Europe. If Putin rolled tanks into Eastern Europe, Trump would have to check whether those countries paid their fair share to NATO before fulfilling our obligations to protect them.

If these were sincere positions, they might be defensible. The Obama administration has been reluctant to arm the Ukrainians. There’s a coherent case to be made for American retrenchment in the world. The problem is that Donald Trump and his campaign aren’t staking out ideological positions. As I have argued, Trump has a long history of sucking up to Russian political leaders to advance his business interests in that country. His praise of Putin has correlated with large infusions of Russian cash into his real estate projects. Furthermore, his campaign is staffed by aides with financial ties to the Russian state.

For his part, Putin has recognized the opportunity that the Trump campaign presents. He has thrown Russian propaganda behind it; his intelligence services have purloined documents from Democratic Party servers, and they have begun publishing them on the internet.

And why not? Trump is Putin’s geo-strategic dream. NATO has been effective at curbing Putin’s military adventurism. Russia may mess around in eastern Ukraine, but it won’t set foot in Estonia or Poland. That’s because it has little interest in fighting a war with an alliance obligated to protect those countries. Rather than facing a resolute, unified West, he prefers conducting a negotiation with a fragmented one and has sought to destabilize Europe through support of Trump-like figures in France, Italy, and elsewhere. Nobody believes in the art of the deal more than Vladimir Putin—and in Trump, he sees a naïve, egomaniac whom he can roll.

Now that the subject of Putin’s relationship to the Trump campaign has become part of the conversation, there are several questions that require answering. And many of these pertain to Trump’s campaign manager, Paul Manafort.

As I have reported, Manafort didn’t just represent oligarchs tight with the Kremlin. He became business partners with them. He ran a private equity fund in which the aluminum magnate (and Putin pal) Oleg Deripaska invested millions. As the Washington Post has shown, this fund didn’t exactly do much investing. In fact, Manafort struggled to account for the cash he received. And rather than pay back Deripaska, he apparently went underground. In 2014, Deripaska’s lawyers noted, “It appears that Paul Manafort and [his business partner] Rick Gates have simply disappeared”: Manafort’s vanishing became a joke in certain Republican circles. So why has Manafort suddenly felt comfortable re-emerging into public view? How did he square his debts with Putin’s ally?

Another question for the campaign chairman: What are his dealings with the Kremlin? It’s clear that he has advanced its interests in Ukraine, where he managed the political rehabilitation of its favored candidate, Viktor Yanukovych. He also went into business with one of the Kremlin’s primary natural gas middlemen, Dmitry Firtash. To what extent did these relationships bring him into the inner sanctum of Russian power?

It’s a murky realm and the questions have more than the whiff of conspiracy. But the circumstantial evidence is mounting. Given that the Trump campaign seems determined to reverse decades of core American policy, policy that Putin has worked assiduously to erode, it seems foolish not to consider the dark possibilities.

So, cut today:
 

Quote

...An Austrian court has ruled that one of Ukraine's richest men, Dmytro Firtash, can be extradited to the US to face corruption charges.

...

The oligarch, who has been in Austria since the US made the allegations in 2013, has now been arrested.

Mr Firtash, a former ally of ousted Ukraine leader Viktor Yanukovych, says he is the victim of a smear campaign.

His gas and chemicals business thrived before the pro-Moscow Mr Yanukovych was overthrown and fled to Russia in February 2014.

'Absolutely untrue'

Mr Firtash was indicted by a US grand jury for allegedly conspiring to pay millions of dollars in bribes to Indian officials through US banks.

... Mr Firtash was first detained in 2014 in Vienna, but was released after posting a record Austrian bail of €125m (£102m).

...

Mr Manafort and Mr Firtash were linked in a real estate project to redevelop the Drake Hotel site in Manhattan.

Mr Yanukovych's opponent, Yulia Tymoshenko, argued this was a money-laundering project to siphon huge amounts of cash out of Ukraine. ...

Last August, the New York Times reported finding ledgers pledging $12.7m (£9.8m) in undisclosed cash payments from the former Russian-backed Ukrainian government to Mr Manafort between 2007 and 2012. ...

- Basically the allegation is that Russian / Putin-ally money was exported out of country and laundered through Manhattan real estate.

- Fwiw Felix Sater was also in real estate.

- There is a lot of Russian real estate investment in South Florida too.

- Oh hey the US government is extraditing Manafort's business partner.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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2 hours ago, Bucky86 said:

Not a very good lawyer if you ask me.

Says who?

 

All of Page, Cohen and Stone have categorically denied being contacted by the FBI or any government agency in very recent interviews. Just as they all denied having been in contact with Russian officials during the campaign (in Stones casing having prior knowledge of the DNC hacks), I believe they're again lying. They're all making a concerted effort to bury this. Again, I'm not a body language expert but in Stone's latest interview (which I'll try to find) he often shakes his head when affirming a question and nods his head when denying an allegation. Regardless, I have a really hard time believing Stone didn't have prior knowledge of the Wikileaks hacks..

He tweeted about it ~week before the Podesta email dump..

Quote

 

Roger Stone @RogerJStoneJr

Wednesday@HillaryClinton is done. #Wikileaks.

 

He's bragged about communicating with Assange here and again talks about having back-channel communications with Wikileaks here on Alex Jones's show.

I think it's super clear that everyone within Trump's sphere of influence have constantly and consistently lied about their connections to Russia - even when it was blatantly obvious - even when there was exactly zero upside in doing so.

 

Also, has anyone been keeping tabs on the Firtash extradition case that happened early this morning in Austria? Rachel Maddow did a really good job of covering it yesterday. Honestly, MSNBC is all over this and is essentially caught up with this thread. Anyway, Firtash was indeed granted extradition to the U.S and there are some in the media who think he'll flip like a flapjack. 

 

Edited by SameSongNDance
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Good article on Firtash, his history and the dilemma currently before the Trump DOJ/State.

Quote

In all this, Firtash again finds himself the man in the middle—a canary in a coal mine for the Trump Justice Department. After Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, the Obama administration was widely perceived to be retaliating against Putin by going after his oligarchs. Should Firtash be forced into the U.S. to face charges, many observers have wondered, what might he have to offer the U.S. in exchange for a plea? Perhaps intelligence about Putin? About others in his inner circle? The U.S. has fought for extradition for three years—but there is a new president now. The Justice and State departments aren’t commenting on the case. But if the administration reverses course and no longer pushes hard on the Firtash prosecution, that would send a pretty clear signal that the president’s embrace of Russia and Putin is real.

 

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Quote

Ukraine Lawmaker Who Worked With Trump Associates Faces Treason Inquiry

Prosecutors in Ukraine are investigating whether a member of Parliament committed treason by working with two associates of President Trump’s to promote a plan for settling Ukraine’s conflicts with Russia.

In a court filing on Tuesday, prosecutors accused the lawmaker, Andrii V. Artemenko, of conspiring with Russia to commit “subversive acts against Ukraine,” in particular by advancing a proposal that could “legitimize the temporary occupation” of the Crimean peninsula. Russia forcibly annexed the peninsula in 2014, a step that Ukraine, the United States and other governments have refused to recognize; Mr. Artemenko said his proposal would allow Ukraine to formally cede control of the territory to Russia, at least temporarily.

Yuriy Lutsenko, Ukraine’s prosecutor general, posted a copy of the court filing to his Facebook page on Tuesday with the statement “Ukraine’s integrity is above all else.”

...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/world/europe/andrii-artemenko-ukraine-russia.html

- This is reminiscent of the Zimmerman Letter.

- Moscow's little ploys seem to be backfiring.

 

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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... What really struck observers in Ukraine about the plan was its reported author, Andrii Artemenko, who according to the Times “sees himself as a Trump-style leader of a future Ukraine.” “That’s the thing,” said Natalia Gumenyuk, the head of the Hromadske.tv, a prominent news outlet that gained stature as the television station of the Maidan protests. “None of us had heard much about him.” What she had heard about him was that he was “marginal,” “a really obscure member of parliament from a shady political party.” She observed that “it’s interesting that it’s this kind of person who got in touch with someone over there,” in the United States.

On Monday morning, Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov concurred. “MP Artemenko, who proposed leasing Crimea to Russia, is a marginal figure without any authority,” he wrote in a post on Facebook.

Both Avakov and Serhiy Leshchenko, a young member of the Rada and a former investigative journalist, suspect the plan originated not with Artemenko, who heads an obscure right-wing party, but among members of the Opposition Bloc, a parliamentary faction that formed in 2014 from remnants of the old party of the ousted pro-Kremlin President Viktor Yanukovych.

In any case, it would stand to reason that the Kremlin would try to get as much of what it wants in Ukraine as possible before the whole Trump-Putin romance falls apart. According to my U.S. sources, the Russians started putting sticks in the wheels of the Minsk ceasefire negotiations in October, when they saw Trump’s election as increasingly likely, hoping that with Trump in the White House, they would get more favorable terms in Ukraine. It would seem now that the Kremlin is using a familiar tactic, using a previously unheard-of, third-tier person as a front for much more powerful figures—like pro-Russian MPs in Kiev.

“All these signals are coming either from the Russian Federation or from their allies here inside the country,” Nayyem told me. “The fact that this proposal was put forward by an obscure Ukrainian politician speaks to the fact that this is an attempt to feel out the environment and try to understand whether [Ukrainian] society is ready for this. Fortunately, these attempts only unite the Ukrainian political class against any sort of trade negotiations when it comes to Ukrainian territory.”

“The proposal and the way it’s being unveiled reeks of Kremlin manipulation,” said Lena Surzhko-Harned, an expert on Ukrainian politics at University of Pittsburgh. “Find a low-ranking financially interested goon, prop him up, give him instructions and let the games begin. ...

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/02/ukraine-peace-plan/517275/

 

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5 hours ago, SameSongNDance said:

Says who?

 

All of Page, Cohen and Stone have categorically denied being contacted by the FBI or any government agency in very recent interviews. Just as they all denied having been in contact with Russian officials during the campaign (in Stones casing having prior knowledge of the DNC hacks), I believe they're again lying. They're all making a concerted effort to bury this. Again, I'm not a body language expert but in Stone's latest interview (which I'll try to find) he often shakes his head when affirming a question and nods his head when denying an allegation. Regardless, I have a really hard time believing Stone didn't have prior knowledge of the Wikileaks hacks..

He tweeted about it ~week before the Podesta email dump..

He's bragged about communicating with Assange here and again talks about having back-channel communications with Wikileaks here on Alex Jones's show.

I think it's super clear that everyone within Trump's sphere of influence have constantly and consistently lied about their connections to Russia - even when it was blatantly obvious - even when there was exactly zero upside in doing so.

 

Also, has anyone been keeping tabs on the Firtash extradition case that happened early this morning in Austria? Rachel Maddow did a really good job of covering it yesterday. Honestly, MSNBC is all over this and is essentially caught up with this thread. Anyway, Firtash was indeed granted extradition to the U.S and there are some in the media who think he'll flip like a flapjack. 

 

The FBI won't contact them until the have a rock solid case and want them to roll on Trump.  That's how the FBI works, so I'm not surprised they haven't been contacted.  Cohen is going to claim attorney-client privilege anyway, so there is no reason to contact him until any indictment.  I'm sure Page has been contacted overseas by the CIA or other overseas agency without knowing it.

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12 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

The FBI won't contact them until the have a rock solid case and want them to roll on Trump. That's how the FBI works, so I'm not surprised they haven't been contacted. Cohen is going to claim attorney-client privilege anyway, so there is no reason to contact him until any indictment. I'm sure Page has been contacted overseas by the CIA or other overseas agency without knowing it.

My mistake, thanks for clearing that up. 

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Michael WeissVerified account‏@michaeldweiss

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Now that Firtash is being extradited to the US, Paul Manafort may have reason to worry: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/donald-trump-aide-paul-manafort-scrutinized-russian-business-ties-n631241 …

 

 

https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/834061195418226688

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54 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

It's happening. The hour of truth is inbound. Get ready, peeps. For our freedom & yours. Za naszą i waszą wolność. The Lizard is coming.

My body is ready.

I only started following him the several days leading up to Flynn's resignation but he was the one who convinced me it was going to happen.

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I'm really lost now.  Please gimme cliffs just on Schindler's last tweet.

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