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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (5 Viewers)

 


Who Is Paul Manafort's Man In Kyiv? An Interview With Konstantin Kilimnik

An elusive Ukrainian associate of Paul Manafort says he briefed the former campaign chairman for U.S. President Donald Trump on Ukraine during last year's presidential race.

The comments by Konstantin Kilimnik, in an exclusive interview with RFE/RL, add to the swirl of intrigue surrounding Manafort, a shadowy political operative who helped bring Viktor Yanukovych to the Ukrainian presidency and who is now under FBI investigation for allegedly communicating with Russian intelligence officials during the 2016 U.S. campaign.

Kilimnik, a dual Russian-Ukrainian citizen, himself studied at the Russian military's main university for languages, which has led to speculation that he has ties to Russian military intelligence.

In the February 22 interview, Kilimnik denied any ties to Russian intelligence. But he said that he and Manafort spoke during the 2016 election "every couple months."

"I was briefing him on Ukraine," he said.

Manafort was fired by the Trump campaign in August after news reports documented payments to him from Yanukovych’s pro-Russian political party.

Last month, The New York Times and other media reported that U.S. authorities were investigating Manafort and other Trump aides for allegedly communicating with Russian intelligence during the campaign.

... Kilimnik also said that he had drafted a plan to bring peace to Ukraine in the nearly three-year-old conflict with Russia.

He referred to it as a "Mariupol plan," a reference to the southeastern port city that abuts the current line of conflict between government forces and Russia-backed separatist fighters.


It would bring Yanukovych back to Ukraine as a regional leader in the Donetsk and Luhansk provinces, where fighting has raged on and off for nearly three years, or possibly involve others such as the current separatist leaders there.

That plan, which Kilimnik said Manafort was not involved with, would face almost certain opposition in Kyiv since it calls for Yanukovych returning to Ukraine from Russia, where he fled in February 2014. ...
http://www.rferl.org/a/paul-manafort-konstantin-kilimnik-trump-campaign-ukraine/28326123.html

- So we have yet another Ukraine peace plan, totally inimical to Ukraine interests, from the Putin-Russo Ukraine faction, but this one was apparently in the works during the campaign.

- It is pretty clear that pro-Putin forces in Ukraine want a peace plan. They want one that is totally weighted in Russia's favor (and theirs) but they clearly need to 'cauterise' the situation. This would behoove them but also Putin by the sound of it. Maybe because Putinb's friends are getting severely hurt by the sanctions, a lot of big business is not getting done.

 
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http://www.rferl.org/a/paul-manafort-konstantin-kilimnik-trump-campaign-ukraine/28326123.html

- So we have yet another Ukraine peace plan, totally inimical to Ukraine interests, from the Putin-Russo Ukraine faction, but this one was apparently in the works during the campaign.

- It is pretty clear that pro-Putin forces in Ukraine want a peace plan. They want one that is totally weighted in Russia's favor (and theirs) but they clearly need to 'cauterise' the situation. This would behoove them but also Putin by the sound of it. Maybe because Putinb's friends are getting severely hurt by the sanctions, a lot of big business is not getting done.

This seems, again, to butress the


 
It does seem to buttress the 

:P

 
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In a CNN interview, Ukrainian lawmaker Andrii Artemenko said he discussed his left-field proposal for Ukraine in January with US President Donald Trump's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, who offered to deliver the plan to the Trump administration.

...In his interview with CNN, Artemenko shines a light on how a key Trump associate was allegedly prepared to push a controversial peace plan that might benefit Russia at a time when questions were being raised about the Trump's ties to that country.

The Ukrainian member of parliament told CNN he met Cohen through a mutual acquaintance, businessman Felix Sater, and that the three had dinner in a Manhattan hotel in January.
...

In a hurried interview in a Kiev hotel, Artemenko said Cohen told him that Flynn -- who resigned in mid-February due to a controversy over calls with the Russian ambassador to the US -- was his best connection at the White House.
"Michael Flynn is the best person, the best of my connections in the Trump administration, who if he likes [it], it's going to [get] huge support, huge support," Cohen said, according to Artemenko.
...

Artemenko knew the proposal would be controversial as it undercuts both the US and Ukrainian diplomatic corps, and he says he knows it angered Kiev, who will have seen it as a pro-Russian proposal.
"That's why I feel pressure, and for sure today I can see people accusing me, and I see the prosecutor of Ukraine is trying to do something, to open a new case, to do an investigation about me," he told CNN.
He said of the January meeting that Sater invited Cohen to "a dinner in the hotel in Manhattan, and we probably spoke around 20-25 minutes, where I presented my intentions, my peace plan for the Ukraine, how we can stop the war, how we can stop the killing."
Artemenko said he had never dreamed that his proposal would be seen by the White House, but he claims Cohen said the plan had "great potential" and wanted to deliver it to the Trump administration.
"It was Michael Cohen's idea," he said. "He [Cohen] mentioned his name first in my meetings. And he said 'listen, Michael Flynn' -- from his personal opinion -- 'is most powerful man who can really support this idea, who can support, who can help you, who can provide this information to President Trump.'"
Flynn resigned 24 days into the job after misleading administration officials regarding his communications with the Russian ambassador to the US before Trump took office.
Flynn made several calls to the ambassador in December, including some on the same day that the outgoing Obama administration placed fresh sanctions on Russia over alleged election meddling.
...



Artemenko left the interview with CNN to attend what he said was a meeting with the President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, although the presidential administration denied such a meeting took place.
Yet moments after leaving the interview, Ukrainian prosecutors announced he would be investigated for "treason" over the deal.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/23/politics/trump-lawyer-ukraine-peace-deal/index.html
 
In a text message to CNN, Cohen denied delivering any documents to Flynn, and refuted Artemenko's recollection of their January conversation.

Flynn did not respond to CNN's request for comment on this story.
- I'm curious how this hand delivered proposal came to light.

- Aside from Trump and Cohen, who in the WH would have known about it besides Flynn? It could have been spoken of in inner circles, but the means of delivery itself?



 
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So Kilimnik talks with RFE.

Artemenko talks with CNN.

Sater talks with Fox.

These guys ain't exactly hiding out.

 
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This is an analysis of the Steele Dossier - being sent to Congress by a group called the Democratic Coalition.

This is largely by a guy named Scott Dworkin, who is point blank a Democrat. Take that as you will.

- I try to be careful with what I post, and ask that people validate it or debunk it or whatever they like, so that's all in full disclosure. Dworkin is coming from a partisan place. However the Dem Coalition is a very professional group and frankly the best advocacy is often from those who are advocating for the opposition of anything.

- Dworkin also had this earlier today, a 2007 article from Kommersant, English version of a Moscow newspaper/site, about "Davis-Manafort" having an office in Kiev which apparently was also the home of Yanukovych's Regions Party. However apparently in 2005 another version of the firm - Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly - was in St. Petersburg. Yanukovych was first elected to Parliament in August 2006. According to the article Rinat Akhmetov and Yanukovych set up electoral headquarters in July 2005 and hired Manafort & Co. at a cost of $2-20 million.

 
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so the Russians and pro-Russian Ukranians all want peace in Ukraine.  That's great...don't we all want peace?  If only those pesky Ukranians would stop defending their homeland when the Russian tanks come rolling in, and stop shooting at the Russian soldiers in Crimea, we would certainly have peace.  

Can't we all get along, recognize the new Russian/Ukranian border, reinstate Yanukovych, and lift those pesky sanctions, and allow all of Putin's oligarch buddies do their things?  How can anyone be opposed to that?

 
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Kind feel badly for the Trump voters who expected recreational weed to continue.

Edit: Oops, wrong thread.

 
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Totally forgot Karlov, ambassador to Turkey, in December 2016.

Would have no connection to the Dossier or Trump but it's worth noting he had zero security protection when shot.
Russians dead since Steele Dossier: Erovinkin, Krivov, Karlov, Melanin, Chandelon, Polshikov, Churkin all connected to Dossier.

That's a tweet, not my statement. As you say, some have no connection or their connection is circumstantial. Some like Erovinkin are directly connected. Regardless, that is a lot of dead Russians.

Edit: Didn't realize you already posted this haha, my bad.

 
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fatness said:
I don't understand how this isn't getting more coverage, specifically because Manafort confirmed that the leaked texts/note are indeed real. As I understand it, the argument against this being absolutely damning is that someone (doesn't have to be Leshchenko) is pretending to have dirt on Manafort (and Trump) in an attempt to make the mere act of blackmailing Manafort look suspicious. The idea would be to send the texts/note and then leak said texts/notes at a later date.

It's a plausible scenario but much less likely in the face of the evidence that is piling up. Sure, as a single piece of evidence maybe you could dismiss it.. but now? No ####### way. 

Also, in the article you can see the texts clearly but here is the note, which seems to be cut off in the article.

 
I don't understand how this isn't getting more coverage, specifically because Manafort confirmed that the leaked texts/note are indeed real. As I understand it, the argument against this being absolutely damning is that someone (doesn't have to be Leshchenko) is pretending to have dirt on Manafort (and Trump) in an attempt to make the mere act of blackmailing Manafort look suspicious. The idea would be to send the texts/note and then leak said texts/notes at a later date.

It's a plausible scenario but much less likely in the face of the evidence that is piling up. Sure, as a single piece of evidence maybe you could dismiss it.. but now? No ####### way. 

Also, in the article you can see the texts clearly but here is the note, which seems to be cut off in the article.
That is crazy. That needs to be acted on immediately.

Reminiscent of the Hastert situation, where he got the blackmail threat and he was the one who got busted.

 
I don't understand how this isn't getting more coverage, specifically because Manafort confirmed that the leaked texts/note are indeed real. As I understand it, the argument against this being absolutely damning is that someone (doesn't have to be Leshchenko) is pretending to have dirt on Manafort (and Trump) in an attempt to make the mere act of blackmailing Manafort look suspicious. The idea would be to send the texts/note and then leak said texts/notes at a later date.

It's a plausible scenario but much less likely in the face of the evidence that is piling up. Sure, as a single piece of evidence maybe you could dismiss it.. but now? No ####### way. 

Also, in the article you can see the texts clearly but here is the note, which seems to be cut off in the article.
for posterity sake, the note claims ""One of such meeting with Donadl Trump took place on 06.17.2012 with close Yanukovich affiliate — governor of Cherkassy — Mr. S. Tulub"

Interestingly, this pre-dates the Russian invasion of Crimea.

============

Note: is this thread more about Trumps Ukranian ties than his Russian ties?

 
for posterity sake, the note claims ""One of such meeting with Donadl Trump took place on 06.17.2012 with close Yanukovich affiliate — governor of Cherkassy — Mr. S. Tulub"

Interestingly, this pre-dates the Russian invasion of Crimea.

...
There is a reference to NABU - that sounds like the Ukrainian federal corruption bureau:

The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine "NABU" has interrogated businessman Rinat Akhmetov, who is the owner of System Capital Management company, on criminal case connected with the published recordings of MP Oleksandr Onyshchenko. This was reported by Ukrainian News referring to the source in NABU.

... According to the MP, the conversation was recorded using a pen with hidden device.
http://112.international/ukraine-top-news/nabu-questioned-akhmetov-on-onyshchenko-recordings-14333.html

- Sounds like Akhmetov was caught recording an MP.

- Another story points out that the DOJ is not interested in interviewing the victim.

Note: is this thread more about Trumps Ukranian ties than his Russian ties?
- It looks like another prong.

There are longstanding ties between Russia and Trump himself.

And there are also Russian ties to Trump via Manafort from Pro-Russian Ukrainian politicians and businessmen. However as posted earlier Trump also had business dealings in Ukraine via Sater as well.

 
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But a White House official questioned the chronology supporting the claim, explaining that Trump had not worked with Manafort before the 2016 campaign.
- That question seems important.

for posterity sake, the note claims ""One of such meeting with Donadl Trump took place on 06.17.2012 with close Yanukovich affiliate — governor of Cherkassy — Mr. S. Tulub"

Interestingly, this pre-dates the Russian invasion of Crimea.
- I don't think the Crimean invasion is the key date here, it's the disclosure of the Regions Party black books:

The screenshots of hacked texts sent to Manafort’s daughter do not include any information indicating the date on which they were sent.

But Manafort said that the first of the texts arrived shortly before The New York Times published an August exposé revealing that the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine had obtained documents — which have since come under scrutiny — that appeared to show $12.7 million in cash payments earmarked for Manafort.

Manafort challenged the authenticity of the documents. And, while he said he could not be sure whether the texts apparently referencing them were in fact sent by Leshchenko, he said “I find it coincidental that I got these texts, and then he released these phony journals.”
eta:

In the Times story from last summer, Leshchenko says that he had received a partial copy of accounting records from an unnamed source that included line items totaling $66 million over a six-month period in 2012.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/02/paul-manafort-blackmail

The parliamentary elections were taking place over the course of 2012, the election was 10/28/12. So that would have been happening during that time period. It goes without saying that Ukraine is very much a pay to play environment.

 
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- That question seems important.

- I don't think the Crimean invasion is the key date here, it's the disclosure of the Regions Party black books:

eta:

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/02/paul-manafort-blackmail

The parliamentary elections were taking place over the course of 2012, the election was 10/28/12. So that would have been happening during that time period. It goes without saying that Ukraine is very much a pay to play environment.
so, connecting the dots,  the implication here is that Trump was involved in Ukraine, either directly or indirectly, with Yanukovich.  When Yanukovich  was outed in Feb 2014, a bunch of Russian oligarch's deals went sour.  

In March, the Russians invaded Crimea and the sanctions came up.

Was the whole Crimean invasion about trying to restore Russian influence, or possibly resume Yanukoviches corrupt deals?  Could Trump have something caught up in that mess?

 
That may have something to do with the fact that the White House isn't actually allowed to contact the FBI on these matters.
The article made that clear (BTW can you imagine the Republican outrage if Obama or Clinton did this), but it also says they didn't want to comment on an ongoing investigation which implies they are looking at contacts :shrug;

 
I don't understand how this isn't getting more coverage, specifically because Manafort confirmed that the leaked texts/note are indeed real. As I understand it, the argument against this being absolutely damning is that someone (doesn't have to be Leshchenko) is pretending to have dirt on Manafort (and Trump) in an attempt to make the mere act of blackmailing Manafort look suspicious. The idea would be to send the texts/note and then leak said texts/notes at a later date.

It's a plausible scenario but much less likely in the face of the evidence that is piling up. Sure, as a single piece of evidence maybe you could dismiss it.. but now? No ####### way. 

Also, in the article you can see the texts clearly but here is the note, which seems to be cut off in the article.
Most of the world uses the date format DD.MM.YYYY  Pretty much only Americans use MM.DD.YYYY

It's minor but I think worth noting.  

 
Can someone point me to some kinda info graphic or timeline or something?  I'm trying to read all these articles but between the Russian names and different companies and political acronyms and whatnot I'm kinda shuked. 

 
FYI...while no directly tied to Trump, Katie Couric's podcast with Bill Browder is pretty informative on how we got here.  Browder used to run the largest foreign hedge fund investing in Russia and has a pretty unique perspective on Putin.  He also has a book out called Red Notice that is supposed to be pretty good.

 

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