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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (5 Viewers)

WheelsUp said:
Some one is waiting for the right time to release his returns. To think everyone at the IRS loves him is a joke. It has to be at the right time to raise maximum effect, and believe it or not, that time has not come yet even after all this mess. If it comes out now it will get lost in shuffle of nonsense.

Where are all the Liberal hackers, thats the real question. No punk kid somewhere with spare time looking to see whats going on?
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Desperation oozing out...love it. 

 
packersfan said:
I'm old enough to remember Al Franken on SNL. Never in a million years would I have thought then he would become one of the most influential political figures of our time. 

Count me in with those who believe he set Sessions up. Based on the report yesterday about the Obama staff working to lay out bread crumbs for people to find and follow up on once Obama was out of office I'm convinced Franken knew what to ask to get the answer he wanted.
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Franken is a guy who shows the power of integrity, people do want ethical government. that can be very powerful indeed.

There's nothing wrong or unethical about teeing up Sessions, if that's what he did. Because actually Sessions is obviously closer to the campaign/administration than Franken, so if Franken knew in advance of the CNN report then so did Sessions. If that was the case then the 'caught in the moment' excuse disappears for Sessions. In fact I'd say it's more likely that Sessions knew more than Franken about the CNN report at that point because he was certainly privy to internal discussions about responding to the news reports.

At any rate asking an AG nominee a question about national security that needed to be asked is not a set up, no matter what. It's more like a duty.

 
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jon_mx said:
I am pretty sure they log everyone who accesses files.  Someone who does that is at a high risk of being fired.
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Doesn't matter. Their jobs and freedom ( because your job is the least of your concerns if you realise people's tax returns) are inconsequential to the American people's need to know Trump is a Russian plant!

 
The WaPo Sessions story is making news because it's easy to understand, and it's important because it will likely open the door to a real investigation of the Trump-Russia ties.  But don't let it totally overshadow the NY Times story on the Obama administration scattering evidence of Russia hacking, which contains this fairly important passage:

American allies, including the British and the Dutch, had provided information describing meetings in European cities between Russian officials — and others close to Russia’s president, Vladimir V. Putin — and associates of President-elect Trump, according to three former American officials who requested anonymity in discussing classified intelligence.

Separately, American intelligence agencies had intercepted communications of Russian officials, some of them within the Kremlin, discussing contacts with Trump associates.
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Henry Ford said:
Gotta love the GOP responses "he was on the senate armed forces committee!" Like the Russian Ambassador just calls up the members of the Senate armed forces committee every once in awhile or vice versa.
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Am I crazy or shouldn't the members of such committees refrain from talking to the Russian ambassador, especially alone? Isn't this like a lawyer going out to dinner with the wife of his client's adversary?

 
I wonder how many people in the Trump camp have to go down for this Russia stuff to become "real".

5?

10?

 
Skoo said:
I wonder how many people in the Trump camp have to go down for this Russia stuff to become "real".

5?

10?
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Watergate led to 69 indictments and 48 convictions per wiki. Another summarizes it as:

  • one presidential resignation
  • one vice-presidential resignation – although Agnew’s crimes were unrelated to Watergate
  • 40 government officials indicted or jailed
  • H.R. Haldeman and John Erlichman (White House staff), resigned 30 April 1973, subsequently jailed
  • John Dean (White House legal counsel), sacked 30 April 1973, subsequently jailed
  • John Mitchell, Attorney-General and Chairman of the Committee to Re-elect the President (CREEP), jailed
  • Howard Hunt and G. Gordon Liddy (ex-White House staff), planned the Watergate break-in, both jailed
  • Charles Colson, special counsel to the President, jailed
  • James McCord (Security Director of CREEP), jailed
This has the potential to be as broad, though we won't know the tally for 6-8 years. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
The WaPo Sessions story is making news because it's easy to understand, and it's important because it will likely open the door to a real investigation of the Trump-Russia ties.  But don't let it totally overshadow the NY Times story on the Obama administration scattering evidence of Russia hacking, which contains this fairly important passage:

American allies, including the British and the Dutch, had provided information describing meetings in European cities between Russian officials — and others close to Russia’s president, Vladimir V. Putin — and associates of President-elect Trump, according to three former American officials who requested anonymity in discussing classified intelligence.

Separately, American intelligence agencies had intercepted communications of Russian officials, some of them within the Kremlin, discussing contacts with Trump associates.
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- I agree.

I don't think the Cohen/Prague story has ever been truly debunked.

The FISA warrants went out in October (10/15/16). The Steele dossier detailing the Cohen-Prague meeting was dated 10/20/16. Even if not exactly correct as to Cohen it could have been someone else and/or such a meeting could have occurred in other cities.

 
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Trump still hasn't nominated anyone for Russian ambassador. Such a person would only be expected to, you know, communicate with the Russian government.

 
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Sinn Fein said:
But, this is also why I don't think the Dems will make a serious attempt at impeachment - they need Trump as the head of the GOP.  Pence as President is a lot scarier for the Dems than Trump.  But, the Dems, and the country, need to keep Trump in check.  Right now Trump can't get out of his own way, and the Dems just have to make sure that continues.
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I think you are underestimating the lengthy and messy process of impeachment, assuming Trump decided to fight the impeachment and not just resign.  Trump would still be President for many months.  Meanwhile, Congress's other work would be slowed or stopped because of the hearings, investigations, etc. Forget repealing Obamacare or giving out tax breaks or appointing right wing judges or anything else Republicans want to do.  None of that stuff happens while Congress is dealing with impeachment.  That's one reason why even anti-Trump Republicans are fearful of  heading down that road.  It would be a huge time suck.  By the time they successfully got rid of Trump and Pence took charge, they're right on top of the 2018 elections and have squandered two years of complete power.

 
I'm just having a hard time understanding here. Can someone give me an example of a subject that a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee would be authorized to and have reason to discuss one on one with the Russian Ambassador?  

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Franken is a guy who shows the power of integrity, people do want ethical government. that can be very powerful indeed.

There's nothing wrong or unethical about teeing up Sessions, if that's what he did. Because actually Sessions is obviously closer to the campaign/administration than Franken, so if Franken knew in advance of the CNN report then so did Sessions. If that was the case then the 'caught in the moment' excuse disappears for Sessions. In fact I'd say it's more likely that Sessions knew more than Franken about the CNN report at that point because he was certainly privy to internal discussions about responding to the news reports.

At any rate asking an AG nominee a question about national security that needed to be asked is not a set up, no matter what. It's more like a duty.
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I don't mean for it to sound like Franken did anything nefarious. He was doing his job. But I do believe he either had clear information or there were strong suspicions about what Sessions had done and he wanted to get him quoted on the record so they could proceed later. Franken has been among those most eloquently talking about the need for Democrats to pick the right battles to wage against Trump. I think he's known for awhile they had intel they could use but needed to get all the proper ducks lined up perfectly.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
- I agree.

I don't think the Cohen/Prague story has ever been truly debunked.

The FISA warrants went out in October. The Steele dossier detailing the Cohen-Prague meeting was dated 10/16/16. Even if not exactly correct as to Cohen it could have been someone else and/or such a meeting could have occurred in other cities.
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Well they looked at Cohen's passport, and said he never went there.

Oh, wait...."they" was Trump. Nevermind.

 
Henry Ford said:
I'm just having a hard time understanding here. Can someone give me an example of a subject that a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee would be authorized to and have reason to discuss one on one with the Russian Ambassador?  
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See this is the thing. Sessions doesn't remember what was discussed. Because actually talking about a non-campaign thing would necessarily mean talking about a SAFC subject, and a lot of what they do is classified. So a 1-1 meeting about SAFC matters is inappropriate and a campaign related discussion is inappropriate, there is no good which can come out of that line by Sessions, so he must be desperate to cling to it.

Either way he's a witness and a witness can't be an arbiter of anything. Recuse.

 
Henry Ford said:
I'm just having a hard time understanding here. Can someone give me an example of a subject that a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee would be authorized to and have reason to discuss one on one with the Russian Ambassador?  
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Here's what they are tasked with overseeing.  It's almost entirely internal to the US.  Conceivably they could have talked about a military base somewhere, but even then that should be on McCain as chairman not him or the ambassador should have met with a bunch of committee members.  But somehow he just shows up in the Capital building to see only Senator Sessions.  Seems entirely plausible.  

http://www.armed-services.senate.gov/about/history

 
packersfan said:
There are more and more elements of the infamous dossier that are being proven to be accurate. So much for all that "fake news."
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Well, he is a confirmed germaphobe (in hindsight, they should have left the golden showers out.) He notoriously hated to shake hands for years. I love the fact that he can't get away with shunning handshakes anymore. I'm chuckling at the thought of him running into his private lavatory to scrub his hands in between meetings. 

 
jon_mx said:
I am pretty sure they log everyone who accesses files.  Someone who does that is at a high risk of being fired.
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I'm more surprised his returns haven't leaked from any of the banks.  And those aren't logged, at least not everywhere. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
Well, he is a confirmed germaphobe (in hindsight, they should have left the golden showers out.) He notoriously hated to shake hands for years. I love the fact that he can't get away with shunning handshakes anymore. I'm chuckling at the thought of him running into his private lavatory to scrub his hands in between meetings. 
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He's also been quoted as saying he's not a germaphobe.

Tough to keep up with all the lies and have any idea what the truth is with this guy. 

 
RUSF18 said:
I'm more surprised his returns haven't leaked from any of the banks.  And those aren't logged, at least not everywhere. 
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Unless he had to personally guarantee a loan in the last year or so, no bank is going to have it.  Most of his business loans are secured by the business.  Besides, banks have a better record at keeping records private than the government,  

 
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Not sure why we are struggling with basic factual information, but Jeff Sessions was the first U.S. Senator to publicly endorse Trump (February, 2016.)

 
So what does anyone think that Trump's tax returns will show or this Russian thing will show that will make any difference?  

 
BobbyLayne said:
Not sure why we are struggling with basic factual information, but Jeff Sessions was the first U.S. Senator to publicly endorse Trump (February, 2016.)
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Because we have a party in power who believes facts are opinions and a lot of people in the population who are too ignorant to understand how clearly wrong that is.

 
Weebs210 said:
Sessions wasn't on Trump's campaign though?
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- March 03, 2016 -



Donald J. Trump Announces Senator Sessions as Chairman of National Security Advisory Committee


Senator Sessions to Provide Strategic Counsel to Mr. Trump on Foreign Policy and Homeland Security​



(New York, NY) March 3rd, 2016 – Today Donald J. Trump announced Senator Jeff Sessions, who has advised the GOP frontrunner on issues such as trade and immigration and endorsed Mr. Trump on Sunday in Alabama, will serve as Chairman of Mr. Trump’s National Security Advisory Committee. Senator Sessions has been on the Armed Services Committee for almost 20 years and is Chairman of the Strategic Forces Subcommittee.

Mr. Trump stated, “It is an honor to have Jeff as a member of the team. I have such great respect for him and I look forward to working with him on the issues most important to Americans.”
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link

Although I will admit the source here, donaldjtrump.com, has a less than stellar record when it comes to truth and accuracy.

 
jon_mx said:
So what does anyone think that Trump's tax returns will show or this Russian thing will show that will make any difference?  
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i'm not sure what they will show but I strongly believe if they showed nothing or proved Trump's innocence he would've released them a long time ago and made an enormous show out of it. 

 
Sessions could have just said: "I met with the Russian ambassador last year a few times, but that was in my role as senator; it had nothing to do with the Trump campaign", and true or not that would have been the end of it. Why did he not say this? 

It may not be perjury, but I don't see how anyone can pretend Sessions wasn't trying to deliberately mislead Congress. 

 
Sammy3469 said:
I'd just note that the WSJ article says "officials" implying it was more than just Kislyak.  My guess is that McCarthy, Chaffetz know this as well and don't want to fall on the sword trying to protect potentially another lie. 

I'll also throw this out there, I won't be shocked if the IC community has records of conversations between the Russians after the fact where they discuss what Sessions-Kislyak discussed.  

BTW...the other thing that's getting glossed over is that by not disclosing this conversation, the Russians had and still have blackmail material on Sessions. Kislyak can easily disclose what was discussed or make #### up if it suits him.  People don't want to admit it, but the AG compromised himself and the entire Justice Department in the process.  Even besides the lying, that's the reason he must go. 
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Excellent point, GB.

 
Weebs210 said:
Sessions wasn't on Trump's campaign though?
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
I will just throw out this - Jeff Sessions - and leave it there______.

I don't know what is what or if there is anything, but:

  • He helped put Trump's foreign policy team together, including supposedly teeing up Carter Page.
  • And he is now the guy at the bottleneck of the DOJ, the stopper between any FBI investigation and Trump.
So we will see.
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- Search function stinks because there's more. Anyway, the timeline with Sessions IIRC was that he was involved back in 2015. He helped shape the foreign policy advisors group in February 2016, and that included specifically bringing on Carter Page. Stephen Miller IIRC also worked for Sessions.

- I wouldn't totally write off Sessions meeting Kislyak at the RNC just because other ambassadors were there. Also there at the RNC was Artemenko who also delivered the 'peace' plan for carving up Ukraine to Trump via Michael Cohen.... who it is claimed met with Russian contacts in Prague... and NYT confirms that US IC has confirmed that meetings (between Trump campaign and Russian officials) did take place somewhere in Europe. Point being that Kislyak was possibly there in Cleveland while the platform was being changed or Putin surrogates were (eg Artemenko).

 
timschochet said:
Sessions could have just said: "I met with the Russian ambassador last year a few times, but that was in my role as senator; it had nothing to do with the Trump campaign", and true or not that would have been the end of it. Why did he not say this? 

It may not be perjury, but I don't see how anyone can pretend Sessions wasn't trying to deliberately mislead Congress. 
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I think for some of them (maybe many, maybe all) they believed that once Trump got elected and with the Republicans in charge they were untouchable so they just lied because they did not believe there would be any consequences. It's almost as if they forgot how the government works. 

 
packersfan said:
i'm not sure what they will show but I strongly believe if they showed nothing or proved Trump's innocence he would've released them a long time ago and made an enormous show out of it. 
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Innocent of what?  You think there is evidence of illegal wrong doing on his tax returns?  

 
packersfan said:
There are more and more elements of the infamous dossier that are being proven to be accurate. So much for all that "fake news."
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I'll tell you the moment I believed there was at least smoke pointing to actual fire in the dossier - when Chris Steele went underground.  

 
Henry Ford said:
I'll tell you the moment I believed there was at least smoke pointing to actual fire in the dossier - when Chris Steele went underground.  
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Yup. That was a pretty huge clue. 

For me, it was just the fact it was brought to Obama and Trump's attention. There's no way the IC didn't believe at least some elements were true for it to go that high up the chain of command. 

 
Ok, Time-out.

We have all had a discussion with someone we knew was lying misleading or trying to con us. We know how it sounds and what their talking points would be.
If any person here had the evidence we have on the Russian connection on your cheating girlfriend... you would have kicked that chick to the curb and hate her for life.

While I am a Liberal, i also do not tolerating lying form Clinton, Obama, Trump or anyone.

Trumps admin is lying to us.
And at the end of the day, they also support a sexual abuser.

 
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