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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (6 Viewers)

packersfan said:
Yup. I can't think of any other logical reason why he continues to hide them. 
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I could think of many, here are the first three which pop into my head. 

He was a cheapskate who gave little to charity.

His business was not all that successful

He paid embarrassing low level of taxes.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Sessions, or the ones throughout the campaign with various campaign officials?

These are total guesses based on nothing more than following the story closely:

I honestly don't think the Sessions meetings were nefarious plotting or anything. Sessions has longstanding ties with Russia and I think they were just having generic conversations about foreign affairs and the ambassador was probing for information.  Both meetings were fairly ordinary, and I think one was happenstance.

However I think the meetings reported in the most recent NY Times article were about the election, how Russia could assist the Trump campaign, and what they might expect in return. And I think Sessions lied about his meetings because he either knows this happened or he suspected it did.
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Back in July at the convention nobody seemed to know who changed the Republican Party platform on Ukraine from "arming them" to the much softer giving "appropriate assistance". Manafort flat out denied (lied) he or anyone in the Trump organization had anything to do with the change. The RNC didn't have an answer either. The timing of the Sessions meeting at the RNC with the Ambassador isn't that great in the light of what could easily seem like some sort of quid pro quo on the platform change.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/aug/04/did-trump-campaign-soften-platform-language-benefi/

 
jon_mx said:
I could think of many, here are the first three which pop into my head. 

He was a cheapskate who gave little to charity.

His business was not all that successful

He paid embarrassing low level of taxes.
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Pretty certain we already know the first two are true.

I try to approach things from a common sense perspective. If someone accused me of illegal wrongdoings and I had the evidence somewhere (let's say on my tax returns) I'm going to provide that evidence immediately to support my claim of innocence. However, if there is information on there that points to guilt I'm going to do everything I can to prevent that information from becoming available all the while deflecting the line of questioning and attempting to point the discussion elsewhere.

That doesn't like anyone we all know, does it?  

 
Really? If girlfriend you know was cheating wouldnt show you her phone, what would you think?
Why do you think Trump wont show his returns? Something is int her.
Common sense isnt so common.

 
Sammy3469 said:
I wouldn't be surprised some of the LLCs pass-throughs led down the rabbit hole of money laundering or Russian ventures.  Whether he knew what he was doing is a different argument, but I'd guess that's what he's really hiding.  
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And how would this show up on his individual tax return?

 
packersfan said:
Pretty certain we already know the first two are true.

I try to approach things from a common sense perspective. If someone accused me of illegal wrongdoings and I had the evidence somewhere (let's say on my tax returns) I'm going to provide that evidence immediately to support my claim of innocence. However, if there is information on there that points to guilt I'm going to do everything I can to prevent that information from becoming available all the while deflecting the line of questioning and attempting to point the discussion elsewhere.

That doesn't like anyone we all know, does it?  
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Same logic people gave for Obama's unwillingness to release his official birth certificate.  

 
jon_mx said:
Same logic people gave for Obama's unwillingness to release his official birth certificate.  
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That's because that was a racist BS accusation. The two aren't similar at all, sorry. 

In any event, Obama is no longer the President. Let's stick with issues involving Trump. 

 
jon_mx said:
So what does anyone think that Trump's tax returns will show or this Russian thing will show that will make any difference?  
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Regarding his tax return, people can speculate but I don't think anyone can say with certainty either way. I think they should be released to put any questions to rest. 

I do think we need to get to the bottom of what is (or is not) going on with Russia. If we do not, it will linger (just like it is right now). The lingering is putting a cloud over Trump's agenda and the issues. 

By the way Jon, I don't agree with you on some things politically but I appreciate that you participate in the discussion. I have always liked hearing viewpoints that differ from mine. I normally don't post much due to time restraints but I enjoy reading the good discussions and debayes in political threads. 

 
jon_mx said:
LLC's can be filed as a business.  They must be if they have multiple owners.  
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They can be, but don't have to be.  Plus, there are lots of pass through investment vehicles that would have to show up by name.  

This is all conjecture and I'm really just pointing out one possibility. 

 
jon_mx said:
And that illegal wrong doing was what?
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He diverted payments to him to his charitable foundation and then directed that foundation to use the money on non-charitable expenditures for his own benefit.  The foundation has admitted to this and amended it previous filings.

Trump would also be required to report the payments he diverted as personal income. He has refused to release returns proving that he did so, and his campaign lied repeatedly about whether he diverted the payments in the first place before admitting that he did so and refusing to answer questions about whether he paid income taxes on the diverted funds.  link

It doesn't exactly take a brain surgeon to figure out that he likely didn't report that money as income; if he had they would have said so and probably released evidence in the form of the relevant pages of his returns.

 
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timschochet said:
Sessions could have just said: "I met with the Russian ambassador last year a few times, but that was in my role as senator; it had nothing to do with the Trump campaign", and true or not that would have been the end of it. Why did he not say this? 

It may not be perjury, but I don't see how anyone can pretend Sessions wasn't trying to deliberately mislead Congress. 
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Because that would have been a lie.

 
Anthony Borbely said:
Regarding his tax return, people can speculate but I don't think anyone can say with certainty either way. I think they should be released to put any questions to rest. 

I do think we need to get to the bottom of what is (or is not) going on with Russia. If we do not, it will linger (just like it is right now). The lingering is putting a cloud over Trump's agenda and the issues. 

By the way Jon, I don't agree with you on some things politically but I appreciate that you participate in the discussion. I have always liked hearing viewpoints that differ from mine. I normally don't post much due to time restraints but I enjoy reading the good discussions and debayes in political threads. 
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Thanks.  Your comments are generally well-thought out.  Listening to the other side is the only real way to get anywhere.  No one has all the answers and very few people have purely evil motives.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
He diverted payments to him to his charitable foundation and then directed that foundation to use the money on non-charitable expenditures for his own benefit.  The foundation has admitted to this and amended it previous filings.

Trump would also be required to report the payments he diverted as personal income. He has refused to release returns proving that he did so, and his campaign lied repeatedly about whether he diverted the payments in the first place before admitting that he did so and refusing to answer questions about whether he paid income taxes on the diverted funds.  link

It doesn't exactly take a brain surgeon to figure out that he likely didn't report that money as income; if he had they would have said so and probably released evidence in the form of the relevant pages of his returns.

Finally, tax law isn't black and white, legal or illegal, just because it's numbers. People can be "aggressive" or cautious on legality. Think of your own taxes and stuff like deductions for various "business expenses."  I think it's very likely that one of the many reasons Trump hasn't released his taxes is that they'll show him being uber-aggressive to the point that some tax experts will conclude he crossed the line.
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How big of a doosh do you have to be to bid on a portrait of yourself at an auction?

 
jon_mx said:
I could think of many, here are the first three which pop into my head. 

He was a cheapskate who gave little to charity.

His business was not all that successful

He paid embarrassing low level of taxes.
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#1 and #3 are hollow...he's demonstrated that he doesn't care about stuff like this.  His comments around "earning your way" and "he's smart" with regard to paying as little tax as possible within the limits of the law tell us that.  #2 might be the best reason one can come up with, so there's that.

 
jon_mx said:
I could think of many, here are the first three which pop into my head. 

He was a cheapskate who gave little to charity.

His business was not all that successful

He paid embarrassing low level of taxes.
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I can't see that these as the reasons he hasn't released his taxes. Everyone already knows these things.

 
TobiasFunke said:
He diverted payments to him to his charitable foundation and then directed that foundation to use the money on non-charitable expenditures for his own benefit.  The foundation has admitted to this and amended it previous filings.

Trump would also be required to report the payments he diverted as personal income. He has refused to release returns proving that he did so, and his campaign lied repeatedly about whether he diverted the payments in the first place before admitting that he did so and refusing to answer questions about whether he paid income taxes on the diverted funds.  link

It doesn't exactly take a brain surgeon to figure out that he likely didn't report that money as income; if he had they would have said so and probably released evidence in the form of the relevant pages of his returns.
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And besides correcting that error, what do you expect the outcome of that would be.  He would not be the first presidential candidate who had to correct a return.  

 
jon_mx said:
And besides correcting that error, what do you expect the outcome of that would be.  He would not be the first presidential candidate who had to correct a return.  
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He is the first one in several decades who refuses to release them and has clearly taken pride in hiding them.

 
Oh when you asked if I met with russians I didn't think you meant "met met", we just talked in a specific place at a time that we set and agreed upon in advance. But it wasn't met met. I'm going to need you to be more specific in the future.

Hope that clears it up. K, Bye.

 
jon_mx said:
Sammy3469 said:
LLCs are listed on Schedule C among other places depending on the income or loss.  
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LLC's can be filed as a business.  They must be if they have multiple owners.  
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They are a flow through hybrid entity.

Whether they file as an S-corp or partnership is immaterial, each owner/partner gets a K-1.

Tax on the income or the NOL if they had none flows through to the individual.

They will file as a partnership return AND the K-1 pro-rata share is reported by the individual.

 
jon_mx said:
And besides correcting that error, what do you expect the outcome of that would be.  He would not be the first presidential candidate who had to correct a return.  
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I wouldn't say I "expect" anything in particular.  You asked what illegal activity his tax returns might reveal, that's the most obvious and certain answer.  I suspect there's a ton more dirt beyond that, but I don't know what it might be. Probably some obvious conflicts of interest, possibly some aggressive/borderline illegal deductions and other stuff, possibly we'd merely discover he's not nearly as wealthy as he claims, although his income tax returns wouldn't necessarily reflect all of his wealth. Who knows.

 
David Frum‏Verified account @davidfrum 31m31 minutes ago

The Q for the independent inquiry: Not just “Did Russia intervene to help Trump?”

but also and even more urgently & disturbingly: “Why?"

 
515 companies. It's gonna be pretty easy to deflect and obfuscate any connection. Felix Sater lent hundreds of millions to the Trump organization to jointly develop properties in Soho, Arizona and Florida. He had an office in Trump Tower two floors below Donald. If they know each other, DJT isn't sure (though he does admit knowing who he is), and if they did business together, it was through intermediaries. Nothing to see.

The tax returns are going to be fun fodder but I'm not as interested in those because it's too complex to distill it down for the masses. Not saying they shouldn't pursue getting them released because it will lead to deeper investigations into his business dealings with oligarchs over the past decade, but I just don't think it's going to substantive in and of itself. 

 
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joffer said:
"Attention all White House staffers, tonight's movie, No Way Out, starring Kevin Costner and Gene Hackman, has been indefinitely postponed.  Thank you, now back to work comrades"
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Oh, I'd also include Hackman on the lengthy list of people more qualified to run this country than Trump. 

F'n Popeye Doyle baby. 

 
WheelsUp said:
Some one is waiting for the right time to release his returns. To think everyone at the IRS loves him is a joke. It has to be at the right time to raise maximum effect, and believe it or not, that time has not come yet even after all this mess. If it comes out now it will get lost in shuffle of nonsense.

Where are all the Liberal hackers, thats the real question. No punk kid somewhere with spare time looking to see whats going on?
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I have been wondering about this for some time.  Someone certainly can get access to the tax return, right?

 
Hmm...I wonder what changed in a year's time:

What do you expect next from Russia?

Sessions: Well, there's a danger that they may continue this overreach. They just solidified power in Georgia, in South Ossetia. That was I think in the last week. Pressure is still on Ukraine. We don't know whether the Minsk Agreement will hold, I don't think it's holding very well now. We have the Estonians, the Lithuanians, the Romanians, they're very worried. This is reality, I wish it weren't, but I'm afraid it is. It needs to be clear that Russia knows that there will be a high price to pay if this behavior continues.

If Minsk breaks down, at what point does the president have to act and supply Ukraine with lethal weaponry? What is the breaking point? We know from what Victoria Nuland said that the administration hasn't decided yet.

Sessions: From what I understand from this conference, I think it's clear that Germany has said publicly that they will support harsher sanctions and more military support if the Minsk Agreement fails. And that will be key. Merkel has worked very very hard to establish a relationship with Putin and Russia. It's been a good-faith effort. If it fails, I would hope that Europe and the United States would have to unify and push back more firmly against Russian overreach.
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 in March 2015 to:

March 17 (2016). At an event hosted by the American Council for Capital Formation, Sessions discusses Trump’s foreign policy positions.

“I think an argument can be made there is no reason for the U.S. and Russia to be at this loggerheads. Somehow, someway we ought to be able to break that logjam,” Sessions said. “Strategically it’s not justified for either country. It may not work. Putin may not be able to be dealt with, but I don’t condemn his instincts that we ought to attempt to do that.”
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http://www.realclearworld.com/blog/2015/03/interview_with_jeff_sessions_us_and_europe_have_to_unify_against_russia_111076.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/03/02/what-jeff-sessions-said-about-russia-and-when/?utm_term=.865805a3b47f

 
HowardKurtz‏Verified account @HowardKurtz 11m11 minutes ago

.@SeanSpicer tells Fox & Friends no reason for Jeff Sessions to recuse from Russia investigation,

he was "100% straight" with Hill committee
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Follow-up question: "Did the President instruct Sessions to deliberately withhold that information from the Congressional hearing?"

 
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