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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (9 Viewers)

I know Trump is the big fish here, but my top 3 in this mess that I want to see go down are Pence, Sessions and Miller (code name McLovin). 

As for Trump, I expect he will be declared legally incompetent, soon; or, he will flee the country. 

Melanie must be loving all of This, about to become the world's richest woman.
Puh-lease. Even if she doesn't have to give the kids a cent she won't sniff top 20

 
We aren't close to halfway, but he knows who's got what and what that means down the road. 

I mean, no one knows the outcome, but let's say the coaching staff caught like every possible cue from its opponent. New all the signs, found a fault in their base key schemes offensively and defensively - something you know could not possibly be overcome regardless what you opponent and the unknown provide.

Papa is probably on wires in talks or something like that. Manaforts rolling. Flynn has been toppled and is now jelly in the hands of the investigators.  Trump adds another semi admission of guilt - on freakin twitter, which becomes all the more damning in the context of the other facts, actions and his own words and deeds in this case.

You have just rolled them twice on offence once marching down the field, going up 7-0 with Papa.  You stop them cold on D, get good field position - BOOM, first play it's now 14-0.   Three plays later, their QB sacked fumbles, run in for a TD.

its early, but there's just nothing that will stop the train you are watching. And when you have a real rooting interest, it's not just schadenfraude, you are part of that winning.

And it's 21-0, 5 min into the first quarter, and you know that you've barely broken out the killer game plan.

I see Comeys tweets like this. He sees what's happening as he likely expected but couldn't "know" and he knows that this is the nothing burger part of the investigation relatively speaking. Between his knowledge of the process, the tactics and the facts (some) of this case, I think Comey is having a nice sense of personal satisfaction (it's his rep in the line here really) not only watching, but knowing the worst / best has yet to even begin. 
I like this Koya, but we haven't seen what Trump can do yet.  He can fire Mueller and stop all this business.  He can dish out pardons like CP3.  He can do all sorts of other freakish stuff like getting his Nazis and Russian bots riled up on twitter.  And ultimately, he has both houses of Congress to back him up.  2018 election is going to really tell the story of how Trump answers for his treachery.  I still think he skates.

 
I like this Koya, but we haven't seen what Trump can do yet.  He can fire Mueller and stop all this business.  He can dish out pardons like CP3.  He can do all sorts of other freakish stuff like getting his Nazis and Russian bots riled up on twitter.  And ultimately, he has both houses of Congress to back him up.  2018 election is going to really tell the story of how Trump answers for his treachery.  I still think he skates.
Oh, I never meant to suggest Trump himself goes to jail, but there will likely be enough real, life altering pain, for some very very close to him, to the point where I'd hardly call it "skating"

Also, my comment was to how Comey is watching this unfold, and it's like you have inside info, you sorta know what's going to happen, but until it does.. then it does and boom, it's even better than planned. Early, but yeah, this should be a fun one to watch

And my guess is Muellers bone to pick extends beyond Donnie to his inner circle who lied to the FBI themselves along with, and it's often the same people, those who treacherously tried Trumps tactics to tremendously treason, terrifyingly.

oh sorry, wrong thread.

:covfefe:

 
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What do you think is more likely. 

1. Flynn lied about legal and totally normal conversations yet still chose to take a plea deal

or

2. He lied about nefarious stuff and chose to take a plea to save his ### 

Not sure about you, but if Trump was my boss, and all I was accused of was lying about mundane stuff, I take my chances and ask big boss man for a pardon
I think you are the fourth or fifth person in the past 12 hours to ask him that exact question. I believe you'll the same answer:

:crickets:

 
Adam Schiff‏ @RepAdamSchiff 1h

If that is true, Mr. President, why did you wait so long to fire Flynn? Why did you fail to act until his lies were publicly exposed? And why did you pressure Director Comey to “let this go?”

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!

9:14 AM - 2 Dec 2017

 
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Maybe I'm confused but didn't Yates tell him that he lied to the FBI or just that he (supposedly) lied to Pence?
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-defends-flynn-there-was-nothing-to-hide-2017-12

It also seems out of line with what a person close to White House counsel Don McGahn told the New York Times on Friday, which is that when former Acting Attorney General Sally Yates warned him about Flynn in January, she did not mention that Flynn had committed a federal crime.

 
What do you think is more likely. 

1. Flynn lied about legal and totally normal conversations yet still chose to take a plea deal

or

2. He lied about nefarious stuff and chose to take a plea to save his ### 

Not sure about you, but if Trump was my boss, and all I was accused of was lying about mundane stuff, I take my chances and ask big boss man for a pardon
yeah, it doesn't take more that a couple of brain cells to figure this out.  If there was legitimately no shenanigans and you were being accused of shady behavior with Russia, why would you lie about campaign meetings with Russians, stubbornly sign a sanctions legislation in private, have meetings with Russia officials in the White House with no U.S press, and not follow through on sanctions.  Time for another game of "Stupid or Liar" 

 
  • Smile
Reactions: Ned
Nov. 10th - Obama warns Trump about Flynn
Dec. 29th - Obama implements sanctions vs Russia
Dec. 29th - Flynn discusses sanctions with Russians
Jan. 6th - Comey briefs Trump on USIC findings about Russian interference in elections
Jan. 24th - Flynn is interviewed by FBI, and lies
Jan. 26th - Yates warns WH officials about Flynn, and informs them that Flynn lied about Russian contacts
Jan. 27th - Trump and Comey have dinner and Trump asks Comey for loyalty
Jan. 30th - Trump fires Yates
Feb. 13th - Post reports WH has known for weeks that Flynn lied, but done nothing
Feb. 13th - Trump Fires Flynn within hours
Feb. 14th - Trump asks Comey to take it easy on Flynn


Yeah.  Admitting he knew Flynn lied when he fired him is pretty stupid.
Well beyond the obvious obstruction charge.

The only way to know that Flynn lied, was if he knew, in advance, what Flynn said to the Russians - i.e. he had been briefed and/or authorized the contact himself.  No room to plead ignorance here.

 
  • Smile
Reactions: Ned
So Trump admits he knew Flynn lied to the FBI before firing him, and KT McFarland wrote in a December 29 email that Russia had just thrown Trump the election.

I feel like Henry Ford in the Roy Moore thread, but this just seems like the Lester Holt thing again. Okay, he admitted it. He's caught red-handed. Now what? Now ... wait for Congress to do something about it? LOL.

 
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So Trump admits he knew Flynn lied to the FBI before firing him, and KT McFarland wrote in a December 29 email that Russia had just thrown Trump the election.

I feel like Henry Ford in the Roy Moore thread, but this just feels like the Lester Holt thing again. Okay, he admitted it. Now what? Now ... what for Congress to do something about it? LOL.
In terms of Trump staying/going nothing matters until Mueller tries to charge him. That may be in the form of a recommendation, a sealed indictment, or a report.

 
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So Trump admits he knew Flynn lied to the FBI before firing him, and KT McFarland wrote in a December 29 email that Russia had just thrown Trump the election.

I feel like Henry Ford in the Roy Moore thread, but this just seems like the Lester Holt thing again. Okay, he admitted it. He's caught red-handed. Now what? Now ... wait for Congress to do something about it? LOL.
Cynicism is usually the most accurate forecast...

 
Trump in meeting with attorneys right now:

''Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?"
More like...

"You ####### #######s. I KNEW we shoulda had more of you lawyers with those beanies, except they are probably in on the conspiracy with that weasel son in law of mine, whats his name? Jalock or Shyred r whatever

WHY ARE YOU #######S JUST SITTING THERE!!! YOU KNOW I DID NOTHING WRONG YOU WORTHLESS IDIOTS!

You know what, screw it, just fire Tillerson.

 
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So Trump admits he knew Flynn lied to the FBI before firing him, and KT McFarland wrote in a December 29 email that Russia had just thrown Trump the election.

I feel like Henry Ford in the Roy Moore thread, but this just seems like the Lester Holt thing again. Okay, he admitted it. He's caught red-handed. Now what? Now ... wait for Congress to do something about it? LOL.
We might be coming to a really dangerous point in time. If Donald fires Mueller while the evidence of shenanigans continues to pile up, and Congress refuses to impeach, then he's got three years of running completely uncontrolled ahead of him. Yeah, the 2018 elections will slow him down a little and he won't get re-elected in '20 -- unless he really goes all Putin on us -- but he can executive order his butt off with impunity. Just think what a nightmare he'll be if he thinks he can get away with anything.

 
More like...

"You ####### #######s. I KNEW we shoulda had more of you lawyers with those beanies, except they are probably in on the conspiracy with that weasel son in law of mine, whats his name? Jarock or Shyred r whatever

WHY ARE YOU #######S JUST SITTING THERE!!! YOU KNOW I DID NOTHING WRONG YOU WORTHLESS IDIOTS!

You know what, screw it, just fire Tillerson.
Dude, you might want to stop posting or they are going to know you are the inside source.

 
We might be coming to a really dangerous point in time. If Donald fires Mueller while the evidence of shenanigans continues to pile up, and Congress refuses to impeach, then he's got three years of running completely uncontrolled ahead of him. Yeah, the 2018 elections will slow him down a little and he won't get re-elected in '20 -- unless he really goes all Putin on us -- but he can executive order his butt off with impunity. Just think what a nightmare he'll be if he thinks he can get away with anything.
I think we are close to everyone on that side - Trump, Congress, and R voters realizing they can do whatever they want.  We could start to see extremely brazen ideas accepted because "winning" including ignoring possible SCOTUS decisions.

 
Dude, you might want to stop posting or they are going to know you are the inside source.
Told you guys, I worked for this guy essentially. Was like a 90% Trump.. maybe 95%. Less racially tinged, more personal break you down and make you feel worthless on the 'merits'

Hell, it's not as if I was just in on those meetings, I basically MANAGED those meetings... can't tell you how many times I've told consultants and even employees 'chill, you are not really fired. hell, He will probably forget he mentioned it after blowing up at a half dozen people before you see him tomorrow' or had the post meeting meeting where I backtracked half the promises, spun half the lies and worked to get to an all win solution whereby the Bossman would think it was his genius workings.

I didn't have to tell the attys.... they either knew him well enough or worked with enough real estate ####### narcissists to know the drill.

ETA: I had to have been 'fired' a couple dozen times at least. Of course I was strong, it only cost me about a foot of lower intestine and almost dying before I moved on.

 
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Told you guys, I worked for this guy essentially. Was like a 90% Trump.. maybe 95%. Less racially tinged, more personal break you down and make you feel worthless on the 'merits'

Hell, it's not as if I was just in on those meetings, I basically MANAGED those meetings... can't tell you how many times I've told consultants and even employees 'chill, you are not really fired. hell, He will probably forget he mentioned it after blowing up at a half dozen people before you see him tomorrow' or had the post meeting meeting where I backtracked half the promises, spun half the lies and worked to get to an all win solution whereby the Bossman would think it was his genius workings.

I didn't have to tell the attys.... they either knew him well enough or worked with enough real estate ####### narcissists to know the drill.
I had a former boss with Trump characteristics, too. He especially hated written agreements because they limited his wiggle room to dance with the truth later on. But if he thought he could get away with it, he'd just nullify the written agreement anyway and just try to outlast the other party. Donald did that too because it works a lot as long as you don't care about the guy in the mirror when you're shaving.

 
We might be coming to a really dangerous point in time. If Donald fires Mueller while the evidence of shenanigans continues to pile up, and Congress refuses to impeach, then he's got three years of running completely uncontrolled ahead of him. Yeah, the 2018 elections will slow him down a little and he won't get re-elected in '20 -- unless he really goes all Putin on us -- but he can executive order his butt off with impunity. Just think what a nightmare he'll be if he thinks he can get away with anything.
My faith in the bolded is 0%. He lost by 3 million votes this time and still "won." I honestly can't wait to see what other enemy he sells the country to in the sequel. Maybe he'll give California to ISIS.

 
I had a former boss with Trump characteristics, too. He especially hated written agreements because they limited his wiggle room to dance with the truth later on. But if he thought he could get away with it, he'd just nullify the written agreement anyway and just try to outlast the other party. Donald did that too because it works a lot as long as you don't care about the guy in the mirror when you're shaving.
My guy was fine with written agreements.... he would purposefully use, then force his atty's to incorporate, overly wordy, complicated, vague and obtuse language. Because when you broke the agreement out, he was so smart he KNEW that HIS language would get over on you (it wouldnt - but like your example, his belligerent threats of lawsuits and all worked on the smaller guys again and again)

Now, if you were 'his guy' and things were going well, and you knew how to work him it could be a nice payout... but part of that game is KNOWING he will balk at most agreed upon agreements and say you only deserve 70% of the bill, then maybe haggle, settle on only paying you 80%... except it took about one or two of those max for vendors to just add 20% at the top, let him lop 15% off, and everyone 'wins'

 
Richard W. Painter‏ @RWPUSA 2h2 hours ago

Just got off a MSNBC panel in which Alan Dershowitz argued it is not a crime to lie to the FBI about a meeting with the Russians if the meeting itself was not a crime. Sheer nonsense. Lying to the FBI is a crime.
Dersh's opinion has rendered itself literally worthless to me. Doesn't mean he is always wrong, but his particular stance on something is completely ignored in my attempting to understand a situation

 
Richard W. Painter‏ @RWPUSA 2h2 hours ago

Just got off a MSNBC panel in which Alan Dershowitz argued it is not a crime to lie to the FBI about a meeting with the Russians if the meeting itself was not a crime. Sheer nonsense. Lying to the FBI is a crime.
Lying to the FBI is a felony in most situations, but there are exceptions. The following subjects are okay to lie about:

- The size of one's winery.
- One's reasons for firing the FBI Director.
- Meeting with Russians if the meeting itself was not a crime.
- The size of one's inaugural crowd.
- The identity of Lee Harvey Oswald's co-conspirator.
- The size of one's hands.
- Sales figures for The Art of the Deal.
- Anything involving George Soros.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Lying to the FBI is a felony in most situations, but there are exceptions. The following subjects are okay to lie about:

- The size of one's winery.
He referred to my hands that if they're small than something else must be small. I guarantee you there's no problem, I guarantee, alright.

 
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The Indestructible said:
@jamescomey

‪Beautiful Long Island Sound from Westport, CT. To paraphrase the Buddha — Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun; the moon; and the truth. ‬

Comey just crushing it on Twitter.
Trolling Trump hard. Or, to be more direct, he's shoving it right up Trump's a**

 
Why is everyone assuming Trump is telling the truth on teh twitter?  To me, it sounds like he is making crap up, as he often does.  

 
David Frum @davidfrum 7m

Throughout Trump-Russia story, the "quid" has been in plain view. Ditto the "quo."

Only the "pro" has been uncertain. Was that why Flynn lied about his conversations wi Kislyak?

 
What is Trump saying on the ol' tweeter?
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 5h5 hours ago

More

I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!

 
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 5h5 hours ago

More

I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!
From a legal standpoint - Trump's statements can, and will, be used against him.  It will be up to him to refute his own veracity - at which point the prosecuting lawyer gets to ask teh age-old question:  "Well, were you lying then, or are you lying now?"

 
exactly.  He does lie about everything, so why do we believe him here?
Its not about believing him here (I do believe him) - its about admitting a crime - but then having to go back and say you are a liar, not a crook.  Its a bad look, no matter how you spin it.

 
exactly.  He does lie about everything, so why do we believe him here?
Well, if his legal case, which hinges a lot on who to trust i.e. his word vs comey, also hinges on him admitting his word is worthless cause he lies all the time....

 
Its not about believing him here (I do believe him) - its about admitting a crime - but then having to go back and say you are a liar, not a crook.  Its a bad look, no matter how you spin it.
Especially when saying Im not a crook just a liar opens the door to prove you are a crook, because in he said-he said, it's obvious that your version is the lie

 
Has to be a whole new branch of police training.

”crap, he asked for a lawyer”

”that’s fine.  just make sure he has his phone.”

 
Here is another thing (or 2) I don't get, but would love to here a rational coherent explanation - Trump says now that Flynn did nothing wrong, aside from lie to the FBI (and Pence).  Lets set aside the Logan Act, because virtually everyone else does - and say Trump is correct - It was proper for Flynn to talk to the Russians about the sanctions, and give some assurance that the Trump Administration would smooth things over in a few weeks.  (I happen to think this was acceptable, Logan Act, notwithstanding).

Given that - why fire Flynn?  Why not direct the DOJ to reach a plea on the lying to the FBI charge, and keep Flynn on board?  Why the need to paint Flynn as a rogue agent, if he was doing something proper?  Why not acknowledge up front that Trump wanted to become a better partner with Russia, ease all economic sanctions, because doing so would benefit American companies/shareholders?  Why is Trump afraid of pursuing that agenda?

And, why is Flynn talking to the FBI without White House approval, and an attorney present?

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Lying to the FBI is a felony in most situations, but there are exceptions. The following subjects are okay to lie about:

- The size of one's winery.
- One's reasons for firing the FBI Director.
- Meeting with Russians if the meeting itself was not a crime.
- The size of one's inaugural crowd.
- The identity of Lee Harvey Oswald's co-conspirator.
- The size of one's hands.
- Sales figures for The Art of the Deal.
- Anything involving George Soros.
:thumbup:

So if you were in serious mode, there is no exception? TIA

 
Koya said:
I do believe he knows that and regrets it. He did what he probably felt was right, at great risk to his career you'd have to say, but we all make the wrong decisions at times.

Helluva time for what appears to be a pretty damn solid guy even at the high levels in which he worked 
Yeah, wasn't that what got him fired?

 
Given that - why fire Flynn?  Why not direct the DOJ to reach a plea on the lying to the FBI charge, and keep Flynn on board?  Why the need to paint Flynn as a rogue agent, if he was doing something proper?  Why not acknowledge up front that Trump wanted to become a better partner with Russia, ease all economic sanctions, because doing so would benefit American companies/shareholders?  Why is Trump afraid of pursuing that agenda?
because at the time, the existence of the dossier had just been reported and the narrative was that Russia hacked our election, which goes to Trumps legitimacy. 

ETA: to put it in perspective, this thread was already 70 pages long at the time Flynn apparently lied to the FBI (and that was after the first thread was axed).

 
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Here is another thing (or 2) I don't get, but would love to here a rational coherent explanation - Trump says now that Flynn did nothing wrong, aside from lie to the FBI (and Pence).  Lets set aside the Logan Act, because virtually everyone else does - and say Trump is correct - It was proper for Flynn to talk to the Russians about the sanctions, and give some assurance that the Trump Administration would smooth things over in a few weeks.  (I happen to think this was acceptable, Logan Act, notwithstanding).

Given that - why fire Flynn?  Why not direct the DOJ to reach a plea on the lying to the FBI charge, and keep Flynn on board?  Why the need to paint Flynn as a rogue agent, if he was doing something proper?  Why not acknowledge up front that Trump wanted to become a better partner with Russia, ease all economic sanctions, because doing so would benefit American companies/shareholders?  Why is Trump afraid of pursuing that agenda?

And, why is Flynn talking to the FBI without White House approval, and an attorney present?
The only logical conclusion is he accepted Russian assistance in the election for help on what matters to Russia the damn sanctions and the first time they acted on their part of the deal was turning transition.  

 

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