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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (7 Viewers)

because at the time, the existence of the dossier had just been reported and the narrative was that Russia hacked our election, which goes to Trumps legitimacy. 
Ok?  How does that explain the need to fire Flynn?

The only reason to be worried about the Dossier is if you had reason to suspect there was fire behind the smoke.  And Trump would be the one person to know if there was anything to the dossier.  So, if Trump thinks its all BS, then why worry about it?

 
>>On Dec. 29, a transition adviser to Mr. Trump, K. T. McFarland, wrote in an email to a colleague that sanctions announced hours before by the Obama administration in retaliation for Russian election meddling were aimed at discrediting Mr. Trump’s victory. The sanctions could also make it much harder for Mr. Trump to ease tensions with Russia, “which has just thrown the U.S.A. election to him,” she wrote in the emails obtained by The Times.<<

-NYT.

Any other krewe I wouldn't believe it.

Eta

>>It is not clear whether Ms. McFarland was saying she believed that the election had in fact been thrown. A White House lawyer said on Friday that she meant only that the Democrats were portraying it that way.<<

Ok I get it, but sheesh.

 
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I got a feeling that despite being a ######## with Fredo-like loyalties or lack thereof, Flynn was still a military man, and not just that a 3-Star and in his own mind he is/was a man of principle who acts for high principles and patriotic ones at that. And the best reason I can think that he would lie to the FBI is he was told to by a superior and that he was asked to do it for some higher moral purpose, like fighting terrorism or world peace. There's only one person whom Flynn would see as a superior: The President. Maybe this a bridge too far and rank speculation but it makes sense to me on the face of things.

 
I got a feeling that despite being a ######## with Fredo-like loyalties or lack thereof, Flynn was still a military man, and not just that a 3-Star and in his own mind he is/was a man of principle who acts for high principles and patriotic ones at that. And the best reason I can think that he would lie to the FBI is he was told to by a superior and that he was asked to do it for some higher moral purpose, like fighting terrorism or world peace. There's only one person whom Flynn would see as a superior: The President. Maybe this a bridge too far and rank speculation but it makes sense to me on the face of things.
Yeah but he also seems a little batcrap crazy too.

 
I got a feeling that despite being a ######## with Fredo-like loyalties or lack thereof, Flynn was still a military man, and not just that a 3-Star and in his own mind he is/was a man of principle who acts for high principles and patriotic ones at that. And the best reason I can think that he would lie to the FBI is he was told to by a superior and that he was asked to do it for some higher moral purpose, like fighting terrorism or world peace. There's only one person whom Flynn would see as a superior: The President. Maybe this a bridge too far and rank speculation but it makes sense to me on the face of things.
Then why would Flynn feel the need to lie to Pence?

 
>>On Dec. 29, a transition adviser to Mr. Trump, K. T. McFarland, wrote in an email to a colleague that sanctions announced hours before by the Obama administration in retaliation for Russian election meddling were aimed at discrediting Mr. Trump’s victory. The sanctions could also make it much harder for Mr. Trump to ease tensions with Russia, “which has just thrown the U.S.A. election to him,” she wrote in the emails obtained by The Times.<<

-NYT.

Any other krewe I wouldn't believe it.

Eta

>>It is not clear whether Ms. McFarland was saying she believed that the election had in fact been thrown. A White House lawyer said on Friday that she meant only that the Democrats were portraying it that way.<<

Ok I get it, but sheesh.
it seems impossible that someone would be so dumb as to put that in an e-mail if it were true, though it seems nearly as strange to joke about such a thing.

Also, I wonder about why it was so urgent to get these sanctions off, why not just wait a few weeks?  Which leads to the "stupid" defense, though surely someone involved should have known not to do it.  So why the urgency?

 
it seems impossible that someone would be so dumb as to put that in an e-mail if it were true, though it seems nearly as strange to joke about such a thing.

Also, I wonder about why it was so urgent to get these sanctions off, why not just wait a few weeks?  Which leads to the "stupid" defense, though surely someone involved should have known not to do it.  So why the urgency?
Because the Russians own Trump.

 
Gr00vus said:
An issue I'm curious about, not directly related to Flynn/Nuclear Deal/Sanctions.

I was really impressed with how quickly the Trump campaign established an incredibly sophisticated big data and targeted marketing campaign in summer 2016. They went from 0 to 100 in a couple of months. Up until just before nomination, the Trump campaign was chaotic at best, had little to no ground game and had nothing resembling advanced technical capabilities. At the time, this instant data analytic/exploitation program was attributed to Kushner, he was highlighted as the leader of that effort.

Now we know more. Russian actors definitely were engaged in tech based activities for the benefit of Trump. And we've learned Kushner couldn't organize a pillow fight at a summer camp, much less a highly advanced technological campaign platform. I want to know, and I hope Mueller is examining, how that program came to be and how it was run and managed. I believe on the surface, the notion is they contracted out with private entities. Were those private entities fronts for Russian government agents? Were Russian government agents directly involved in setting up and running those capabilities? If so, what laws, if any would that breech?
This was an article that Maurile (re)posted a few days ago, which seems interesting: https://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/11/24/a-trumprussia-confession-in-plain-sight/

 
Here is another thing (or 2) I don't get, but would love to here a rational coherent explanation - Trump says now that Flynn did nothing wrong, aside from lie to the FBI (and Pence).  Lets set aside the Logan Act, because virtually everyone else does - and say Trump is correct - It was proper for Flynn to talk to the Russians about the sanctions, and give some assurance that the Trump Administration would smooth things over in a few weeks.  (I happen to think this was acceptable, Logan Act, notwithstanding).

Given that - why fire Flynn?  Why not direct the DOJ to reach a plea on the lying to the FBI charge, and keep Flynn on board?  Why the need to paint Flynn as a rogue agent, if he was doing something proper?  Why not acknowledge up front that Trump wanted to become a better partner with Russia, ease all economic sanctions, because doing so would benefit American companies/shareholders?  Why is Trump afraid of pursuing that agenda?

And, why is Flynn talking to the FBI without White House approval, and an attorney present?
Stupid Watergate!  Flynn’s always been an enigma...he was an intelligence officer so he should of have known Kislyaks calls were being recorded.  A part of me thinks he reached a point where he relalized he ####ed up (this would be after Trump won when he realized what Russia actually did) and wanted to get caught on a technicality to spill the beans.

 
I am assuming at some point, one of Trump's defenses will be that he did not always have control of his twitter account, that he had people creating his tweets for him - thus he can't be held accountable for making any given statement on twitter.
Then produce the person who typed the OFFICIAL TWEET OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES... err, make that TWEETS

 
Dedfin said:
I think we are close to everyone on that side - Trump, Congress, and R voters realizing they can do whatever they want.  We could start to see extremely brazen ideas accepted because "winning" including ignoring possible SCOTUS decisions.
What stops Donald from just using an EO to cancel the next Presidential election? 

 
I'd say Pence wasn't in on the plan. But dealing with the FBI is a whole other animal. Lie to them and he knew he was running the risk of a felony from the get-go.
He was head of transition... while maybe not actively involved, it's a stretch to claim he didn't know.

 
Congress would be fine with it considering they know he will sign anything they want him to sign.  We are in a pretty vulnerable state right now.
I see the champagne is gone tonight and we’ve drifted into alex jones territory.  Not a good day for the pitchfork crew huh?

 
Well, if his legal case, which hinges a lot on who to trust i.e. his word vs comey, also hinges on him admitting his word is worthless cause he lies all the time....
It would be fun to see the case brought to a jury on "is Trump a liar?" 

Get comfortable folks. 

 
Jill Stein was in attendance. I had not noticed that.

So Russia favored 2 candidates in the 2016 Presidential election.

ETA: well not add, but change "backed" to "favored"
I noticed Stein's attendance before the inauguration IIRC, been a LONG time since that's been known.

shes as treacherous and self dealing a traitor as the rest until I'm shown otherwise. Faux left scum. 

 
Jill Stein was in attendance. I had not noticed that.

So Russia favored 2 candidates in the 2016 Presidential election.

ETA: well not add, but change "backed" to "favored"
How about "utilised so sow discord and doubt upon the very tenets of democracy and the nations foundational standing and existential existence"

Id be fine watching her jump from a limb along with the other traitors 

 
The senior transition official who Flynn called into to confer on his conversations and negotiations with Russian Ambassador Kislyak was KT McFarland. Flynn conferred with McFarland and McFarland conferred with a group of other senior officials which, as I noted last night on the basis of the contemporaneous pool reports, appears to have been Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway and Reince Priebus.

McFarland had been tapped to serve as the Deputy National Security Advisor, a position she held until May. Her main qualification for the job was a long stint as a “Fox News National Security Analyst”, a position she had seemingly on the basis of a stint as a speechwriter in the Reagan Pentagon thirty years ago. As I’ve noted before, she is a notorious resume embellisher. More recent McFarland highlights include a failed run against Hillary Clinton during Clinton’s run for a second senate term in 2006. In that race, McFarland distinguished herself by claiming that Clinton saw her as such a threat that she was sending secret helicopters to surveil her estate in the Hamptons. That’s the level of person she is. McFarland was defeated in the GOP primary.

In other words, McFarland is a clown, a product of the New York GOP/Fox News/Roger Ailes ridicu-verse. The larger group she and Flynn were conferring with about carrying on a covert negotiation with the Russian Ambassador were basically people of the same caliber with the exception of Priebus, who is a fairly seasoned political operative but not someone with foreign policy experience. A New York Times story from today shows an extensive series of emails which largely involve the same individuals noted above. Those chains also include Tom Bossert, the current White House Homeland Security Advisor who has a clearer national security background.

The upshot is that other than Flynn, almost no one involved in the extended conversation had any experience that remotely qualified them to be part of the discussion. The point here is not to cut these folks slack because they were somehow naive or ignorant of the issues they were dealing with. It is that again and again in these key moments the decision-makers were people who were inexperienced, had histories of either poor judgment or extremism and were in many cases corrupt. With those qualities, you can expect that a lot of bad things to come.
I didn't know KTM's back story at all.  About what you'd expect.

 
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Yeah, that's the idea- not sure how well it works. Is the Secret Service going to let a bunch of men with hunting rifles and handguns walk into the White House and arrest the President? 
I really can't imagine any serous person thinks the 2nd Amendment is going to solve any of our problems, except for regulating deer population.

 
Richard W. Painter‏ @RWPUSA 4h4 hours ago

And what position would Alan Dershowitz take on Flynn if the meeting had been with the Palestinian Authority and Flynn had lied about it? Emotional responses to foreign policy issues don't drive law. Lying to the FBI is illegal.

 
I noticed Stein's attendance before the inauguration IIRC, been a LONG time since that's been known.

shes as treacherous and self dealing a traitor as the rest until I'm shown otherwise. Faux left scum. 
Russian trolls were pimping Stein to help Trump.   Taking left wing votes from Clinton.

 
So, I just found out there was an email sent from someone to high ranking Republicans and those high ranking Republicans “knew” more than they have stated? No wonder they are trying to ram this tax thing through, if/when more info comes out, there may very well be a backlash against each name mentioned. Get this thing signed with the blood ink of the Russians/sponsors and by the time next elections come around, these high ranking Republicans will simply wash their hands with the oncoming recession. 

Talk about un-f••••••-real and un-f••••••American these people are. Burn in hell and enjoy your Russian vacation homes. Queue the Democrats to clean this crap up and get the blame at the same time. By the way, kick Gorsuch off the court since he is an illegimate judge sitting on the court. Call up Garland. 

 
Russian trolls were pimping Stein to help Trump.   Taking left wing votes from Clinton.
It was clear a long time ago she had to be aware that her role and purpose was to syphon from the left, which was amplified by the Russians "pro-Bernie" agitation campaign. It got her campaign money and her exposure which appears to be enough to have bought her allegiance. 

Scum. At least you know the GOP wants to take from the middle to give to the rich. Green Party sell out traitor that ends up harming the middle class and poor? I can only put faith in Karma. 

 
So, I just found out there was an email sent from someone to high ranking Republicans and those high ranking Republicans “knew” more than they have stated? No wonder they are trying to ram this tax thing through, if/when more info comes out, there may very well be a backlash against each name mentioned. Get this thing signed with the blood ink of the Russians/sponsors and by the time next elections come around, these high ranking Republicans will simply wash their hands with the oncoming recession. 

Talk about un-f••••••-real and un-f••••••American these people are. Burn in hell and enjoy your Russian vacation homes. Queue the Democrats to clean this crap up and get the blame at the same time. By the way, kick Gorsuch off the court since he is an illegimate judge sitting on the court. Call up Garland. 
They want to run on that conservative SCOTUS appointment and tax cuts...consequences and facts be damned.

 

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