Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
It was reported some time ago. Trump has done some terrible things but I still can't understand how anyone can overlook this.
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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter whoknew
- Start date
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Redactions are for investigative technique, which likely means classified intel eavesdropping.
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Why quote Conway putting words in Comey’s mouth rather than just quoting Comey?
(Comey certainly never concluded that no votes were changed.)
Is this Mueller’s conclusion, or your own speculation?
(I haven’t read the entire report yet, but I’m extremely confident that Mueller never concluded anything about whether the Russian interference impacted the outcome.)
Rove!
Footballguy
There was no cover up. No executive priveliges exercised, no documents withheld, no underlying crime to hide. Trump didn’t ask anybody to commit a crime. At best he asked them to make a legal argument and they didn’t.
prefontaine
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Just one example - he told Rosenstein to go out in front of the American people and tell them that Comey was fired because of him.
- Pointing the finger at someone else is literally what a cover story is.
- There are other examples.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
My opinion.
I don’t feel the Russian hacking had any more or less impact on any of the other issues in 2016.
The article is saying that Russians didn’t change votes by hacking into the voting system and electronically switching a Clinton vote to a Trump vote.
That’s very different from saying that Russians didn’t change votes by interfering in the election.
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Thanks. It’s a fair opinion, depending on what it’s based on. I just couldn’t tell whether you were attributing it to Mueller. You weren’t, so carry on...
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Because of his early years working with him. I don’t mean in terms of kompromat, I mean rhetorically. If Assange is wrong, then so has been GG’s hagiographicization Of him.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Right.
It obviously doesn't have to be at the forefront all of the time......but to not put it in the quiver and use it occasionally is bad politicking.
Herb
Footballguy
At this point, the efficacy of the hacking is essentially meaningless. No one is disputing the outcome of the election. The facts are that the hacking occurred, and Trump's campaign AT BEST allowed contact between itself and the Russians, failed to contact the FBI when it did, and covered it up after the fact.
That's assuming the campaign wasn't in direct coordination the entire time, which would be a criminal conspiracy. There is a lot of evidence (not proof) that this is what actually occurred.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
It's Hillary's fault she lost. Not because of the Russians. She didn't even campaign in Wisconsin. I know that opinions like this aren't welcome here.
timschochet
Footballguy
More "man on the street" interviews, this time from Los Angeles, heart of the Resistance. They interviewed some Bernie Sanders people. Once again, no impeachment. More hearings are fine, but move on to discuss education, health care, jobs.
The message is very clear from the public, whether it's from Democrats, Republicans, independents- do NOT make this the primary issue. MOVE ON. Let Trump talk about this for the next 2 years; it will only hurt him.
The message is very clear from the public, whether it's from Democrats, Republicans, independents- do NOT make this the primary issue. MOVE ON. Let Trump talk about this for the next 2 years; it will only hurt him.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Aren't there a ton of conservative journalists and journalism outlets like Fox News, Breitbart, Drudge, National Review, The Daily Caller, The Blaze, OAN, Gateway, etc.? Why weren't they doing it? Or were they deep in the Hillary bag too?
timschochet
Footballguy
I welcome it. And as a Hillary fan, I agree with you. She blew it.
But I also think that one is not necessarily exclusive of the other. Hillary blew it by not campaigning in Wisconsin late, along with many many other errors. But the Russians also were involved, and the Wikileaks release of emails in particular, which they apparently engineered, hurt Hillary as well. These two statements are not contradictory.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Amigo, it’s welcome, but you’re talking avocados and apricots here. The report doesn’t address the effects of the interference, but the specific transfer of polling data about those states (WI etc) from Trump’s campaign chief to a Russian intelligence asset is pretty significant.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yes it is her fault and she did lose. However, we will have future elections and we need to know what happened, how it happened, and prevent it in the future. The President not being cooperative and instead being dismissive of it is a real problem.
Skoo
Footballguy
They're not mutually exclusive. Hillary and the Russians both contributed to the loss.
How much of the non-Trump supporting folks do you think feels like this?
I don't the sense at all there's any appetite to move on. Feels like the opposite.
McJose
Footballguy
How so? Have you been banned? Given a time-out? Did a couple of goons in FBG t-shirts show up at your house and threaten to break your legs?
I would guess a couple do read since they seem to have the time. Others read the summary then make fun of the righties for not reading. It makes them feel superior..
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
Exactly how did the Russians help Trump win? Hillary lost because she was a terrible candidate and ran a terrible campaign. You actually think that Russians influenced voters here to vote for Trump?
timschochet
Footballguy
We’re going to find out pretty shortly from polling. Prior to this report coming out (two days ago) 54% of the public wants us to move on. Now? Listening to the interviews, I don’t think that number has changed much. But I could be wrong. We’ll find out soon.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Well, people have mocked those for not reading it for opining in things and repeating Barr’s first “Summary “ rather than what Mueller actually said.
The reports and many relevant quotes have been posted by people willing to actually discuss the report.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
I refuse to get into the weeds on this one because it’s very apparent this topic will be a never ending argument that is until trump is out.
adonis
Footballguy
It's a reasonable question.
Just because folks don't agree with you doesn't mean dissenting opinions aren't welcome.
Skoo
Footballguy
Yes, this has all been documented for years now.
Is your position that our entire intelligence community got together and decided to just made this up out of thin air?
Joe Summer
Footballguy
If you try to post a conclusion that appears to be based on the report, and your conclusion doesn't align with anything published in the report, and you fail to provide links to the report which are associated with your claim, then you are going to be called out on it.
Every. Single. Time.
sho nuff
Footballguy
It’s possible. For the same reason that advertisements work in people...misinformation can work. And I believe the intel community stated Russian measures reached 100 million Americans.
And even saying that...it’s besides the point. Effective or not, crimes were committed. Trumps campaign did have many contacts with Russians and did cover up such things and appear to have obstructed the investigation.
Just saying, oh well, Hillary would have lost anyway isn’t a very good defense.
timschochet
Footballguy
This has been discussed endlessly, in great detail, in this thread, on all the news stations for the past 2 years. I’m astonished that at this late date, having participated so much in this discussion, you would even ask this question. It’s basically a “What is this whole thing about?” question.
Skoo
Footballguy
That's fine of course, but you probably shouldn't be commenting on something you've decided not to learn anything about.
McJose
Footballguy
Answer the question. How have your opinions not been “welcomed”?
Are you complaining that people disagree with your opinions? Or are you claiming that you have been treated unfairly?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
When I get the time I’ll post the summaries for you that Barr would not three weeks ago: they’re pretty short and simple though there are several of them. I’m not doing it if you’re not interested.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
I take it you miss all the snark and condescending comments. No worries. Hillary lost and the Dems hate Trump. I remember watching the night of the election and many were saying there were going after him to impeach him. The Mueller report didn't work out the way many of you hoped. If the Dems want to win in 2020m they move on from this, get more to the center and start with a message that appeals to middle America. What will they do to make things even better. The impeachment talk and the socialist stance isn't going to work. Just my opinion.
adonis
Footballguy
The number 1 issue during the campaign ended up being her emails.
Russia was involved in this. Colluding with folks from Trump's team, using wikileaks to achieve their objective of harming Hillary and helping Trump.
It's all related, it's all focused around the #1 critical issue of the 2016 campaign, and folks want to pretend it didn't matter.
Ok.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
Hillary lost because she ran a terrible campaign and was arrogant to think she had it in the bag just like many of her supporters did.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The report has been quoted extensively by several in this thread. You could probably get a gist just by reading through the quoted pieces through yesterday.
McJose
Footballguy
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
You guys are convinced of this because you can't accept Hillary losing and Trump being President. And wow....will things get ugly if Trump gets to appoint another Supreme Court judge.
adonis
Footballguy
There is snark and condescending comments directed at me. I don't whine about it. I try to engage with them and if they don't engage back, I move on. I'll note that you've been in that category at times.
REgarding Trump winning, many weren't saying they were going after him to impeach him. This is like something Trump would say "Many people are saying"...when it's just not true.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I believe she lost Wisconsin because we ascribe to the precept from Black Dog that a big legged woman ain't got no soul, and who would vote for that.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Go on and stand for nothing, but when you do you will find you have lost the moral authority to lead.
"Yeah we won, but now no one seems to care or believe us".
