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The Russia Investigation: Mueller Testimony Moved to July 24

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48 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

ūüėĄ¬† It wasn't a group of people and you know better.

Ren and I and others have correctly called this Russia nonsense as a farce.  Just eat some crow and move on.  :shrug:

No crow for me to eat, nice try though.  I never claimed Trump conspired directly.  My thoughts were, still are, he was/is financially tied to Russia deeply and didn’t/doesn't want to upset the apple cart.  

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Priebus recalled that McGahn said that the President had asked him to ‚Äúdo crazy ####‚ÄĚ...¬†

White House counsel talking to the White House Chief of Staff.

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When the President called McGahn a second time to follow up on the order to call the Department of Justice, McGahn recalled that the President was more direct, saying something like, ‚ÄúCall Rod, tell Rod that Mueller has conflicts and can‚Äôt be the Special Counsel.‚ÄĚ581¬†McGahn recalled the President telling him ‚ÄúMueller has to go‚ÄĚ and ‚ÄúCall me back when you do it.‚ÄĚ

:banned:

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McGahn told Donaldson that the President had called at least twice and in one of the calls asked ‚Äúhave you done it?‚ÄĚ591

 

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6 hours ago, ren hoek said:

blue

Yeah, I don't believe you. Good calculated guess though. Now, really, what color is the sky on your world? Bet it's orange.

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5 hours ago, Ruffrodys05 said:

Yeah, I don't believe you. Good calculated guess though. Now, really, what color is the sky on your world? Bet it's orange.

Yellow, being the complimentary hue to blue, would seem more fitting in bizarro world

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15 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Glenn Greenwald might be up to something in Brazil. Not sure if any of this is true however...

https://twitter.com/felipebayan/status/1140485487775408128?s=21

Seems neither Trump nor 2016 election related, no?

Anyway, it does seem interesting at the very least

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6 hours ago, Ruffrodys05 said:

Yeah, I don't believe you. Good calculated guess though. Now, really, what color is the sky on your world? Bet it's orange.

I think you meant to say ‚Äėred‚Äô.¬†

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13 minutes ago, msommer said:

Seems neither Trump nor 2016 election related, no?

Anyway, it does seem interesting at the very least

Dunno if it‚Äôs true, but paying Russian hackers to find info against political opponents under the guise of ‚Äúreporting.‚ÄĚ Seems kind of related. Isn‚Äôt the new Brazil president a far-right kind of guy?

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4 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Dunno if it‚Äôs true, but paying Russian hackers to find info against political opponents under the guise of ‚Äúreporting.‚ÄĚ Seems kind of related. Isn‚Äôt the new Brazil president a far-right kind of guy?

He's been called the Trump of Brazil. He says a lot of stupid stuff too. Not as incoherently as Trump but stupid nonetheless

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13 hours ago, Don't Noonan said:

Ren has been 100% correct on this Russia nonsense all along and you are calling him out as crazy?  Awesome.

Completely false.  To this day, I don't think Ren had acknowledged Russia's role in the DNC hack.  That alone puts him at 50% at best.

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2 hours ago, TripItUp said:

 

Hi fellas, Just checking in on the impeachment...we there yet?  Year 3 or Year 4?

At what point do you guys and CNN give up? ÔĽŅ

As always, the fundamental conflict between left and right in the age of Trump is about perspective.  The left, despite its many faults and squabbles, ultimately wants to do what's in the best interests of America and its people. The right under Trump cares only about winning points in some sort of fictional "contest" with the left. You can see it here, where a right-leaning poster checks in to mock the idea of impeachment for no purpose other than to accomplish the dictionary definition of online trolling. It doesn't even occur to this poster that when you believe something is important you don't give up on it after a year or two, which itself is pretty telling. You can see it elsewhere, such as this this post/thread from another Trump supporter who freely admits that he takes great joy from the misery of his fellow Americans.

This is what Trumpism is all about. Its not about making America better, it's about bonding over your shared contempt for "others."  Every single thing they say or do comes down to this.  And they are helpful enough to provide examples of it every day.

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NYT story on Russian Intelligence Grafting Itself Onto Cyber criminal Bogachev Hacking

Russian Espionage Piggybacks on a Cybercriminal’s Hacking

To the F.B.I., Evgeniy M. Bogachev is the most wanted cybercriminal in the world. The bureau has announced a $3 million bounty for his capture, the most ever for computer crimes, and has been trying to track his movements in hopes of grabbing him if he strays outside his home turf in Russia.

He has been indicted in the United States, accused of creating a sprawling network of virus-infected computers to siphon hundreds of millions of dollars from bank accounts around the world, targeting anyone with enough money worth stealing ‚ÄĒ from a pest control company in North Carolina to a police department in Massachusetts to a Native American tribe in Washington.

In December, the Obama administration announced sanctions against Mr. Bogachev and five others in response to intelligence agencies’ conclusions that Russia had meddled in the presidential election. Publicly, law enforcement officials said it was his criminal exploits that landed Mr. Bogachev on the sanctions list, not any specific role in the hacking of the Democratic National Committee.

But it is clear that for Russia, he is more than just a criminal. At one point, Mr. Bogachev had control over as many as a million computers in multiple countries, with possible access to everything from family vacation photographs and term papers to business proposals and highly confidential personal information. It is almost certain that computers belonging to government officials and contractors in a number of countries were among the infected devices. For Russia’s surveillance-obsessed intelligence community, Mr. Bogachev’s exploits may have created an irresistible opportunity for espionage.

While Mr. Bogachev was draining bank accounts, it appears that the Russian authorities were looking over his shoulder, searching the same computers for files and emails. In effect, they were grafting an intelligence operation onto a far-reaching cybercriminal scheme, sparing themselves the hard work of hacking into the computers themselves, officials said.

The Russians were particularly interested, it seems, in information from military and intelligence services regarding fighting in eastern Ukraine and the war in Syria, according to law enforcement officials and the cybersecurity firm Fox-IT. But there also appear to have been attempts to gain access to sensitive military and intelligence information on infected computers in the United States, often consisting of searches for documents containing the words ‚Äútop secret‚ÄĚ or ‚ÄúDepartment of Defense.‚ÄĚ

The Russian government has plenty of its own cyberspace tools for gathering intelligence. But the piggybacking on Mr. Bogachev’s activities offers some clues to the breadth and creativity of Russia’s espionage efforts at a time when the United States and Europe are scrambling to counter increasingly sophisticated attacks capable of destroying critical infrastructure, disrupting bank operations, stealing government secrets and undermining democratic elections.

This relationship is illustrated by the improbable mix of characters targeted with the sanctions announced by the Obama administration. Four were senior officers with Russia’s powerful military intelligence agency, the G.R.U. Two were suspected cyberthieves on the F.B.I.’s most wanted list: an ethnic Russian from Latvia named Alexsey Belan with a red-tinted Justin Bieber haircut, and Mr. Bogachev, whose F.B.I. file includes a photograph of him holding his spotted Bengal cat while wearing a matching set of leopard-print pajamas.

From Thief to Russian Asset?

His involvement with Russian intelligence may help explain why Mr. Bogachev, 33, is hardly a man on the run. F.B.I. officials say he lives openly in Anapa, a run-down resort town on the Black Sea in southern Russia. He has a large apartment near the shore and possibly another in Moscow, officials say, as well as a collection of luxury cars, though he seems to favor driving his Jeep Grand Cherokee. American investigators say he enjoys sailing and owns a yacht.

Running the criminal scheme was hard work. Mr. Bogachev often complained of being exhausted and ‚Äúof having too little time for his family,‚ÄĚ said Aleksandr Panin, a Russian hacker, now in a federal prison in Kentucky for bank fraud, who used to communicate with Mr. Bogachev online. ‚ÄúHe mentioned a wife and two kids as far as I remember,‚ÄĚ Mr. Panin wrote in an email.

Beyond that, little is known about Mr. Bogachev, who preferred to operate anonymously behind various screen names: slavik, lucky12345, pollingsoon. Even close business associates never met him in person or knew his real name.

‚ÄúHe was very, very paranoid,‚ÄĚ said J. Keith Mularski, an F.B.I. supervisor in Pittsburgh whose investigation of Mr. Bogachev led to an indictment in 2014. ‚ÄúHe didn‚Äôt trust anybody.‚ÄĚ

Russia does not have an extradition treaty with the United States, and Russian officials say that so long as Mr. Bogachev has not committed a crime on Russian territory, there are no grounds to arrest him.

Attempts to reach Mr. Bogachev for this article were unsuccessful. In response to questions, his lawyer in Anapa, Aleksei Stotskii, said, ‚ÄúThe fact that he is wanted by the F.B.I. prevents me morally from saying anything.‚ÄĚ

A line in Mr. Bogachev‚Äôs file with the Ukrainian Interior Ministry, which has helped the F.B.I. track his movements, describes him as ‚Äúworking under the supervision of a special unit of the F.S.B.,‚ÄĚ referring to the Federal Security Service, Russia‚Äôs main intelligence agency. The F.S.B. did not respond to a request for comment.

That Mr. Bogachev remains at large ‚Äúis the most powerful argument‚ÄĚ that he is an asset of the Russian government, said Austin Berglas, who was an assistant special agent in charge of cyberinvestigations out of the F.B.I.‚Äôs New York field office until 2015. Hackers like Mr. Bogachev are ‚Äúmoonlighters,‚ÄĚ Mr. Berglas said, ‚Äúdoing the bidding of Russian intelligence services, whether economic espionage or straight-up espionage.‚ÄĚ

Such an arrangement offers the Kremlin a convenient cover story and an easy opportunity to take a peek into the extensive networks of computers infected by Russian hackers, security experts say. Russian intelligence agencies also appear to occasionally employ malware tools developed for criminal purposes, including the popular BlackEnergy, to attack the computers of enemy governments. The recent revelations by WikiLeaks about C.I.A. spying tools suggest that the agency also kept a large reference library of hacking kits, some of which appear to have been produced by Russia.

It also hints at a struggle to recruit top talent. A job with the Russian intelligence agencies does not command the prestige it did in the Soviet era. The Russian state has to compete against the dream of six-figure salaries and stock options in Silicon Valley. A recruiting pitch from a few years ago for the Defense Ministry’s cyberwarfare brigade offered college graduates the rank of lieutenant and a bed in a room with four other people.

And so the Kremlin at times turns to the ‚Äúdark web‚ÄĚ or Russian-language forums devoted to cyberfraud and spam. Mr. Bogachev, according to court papers from his criminal case, used to sell malicious software on a site called Carding World, where thieves buy and sell stolen credit card numbers and hacking kits, according to the F.B.I. One recent posting offered to sell American credit card information with CVV security numbers for $5. A user named MrRaiX was selling a malware supposedly designed to pilfer passwords from programs like Google Chrome and Outlook Express.

Rather than shut down such sites, as the F.B.I. typically tries to do, Russian intelligence agents appear to have infiltrated them, security experts say.

Some of the forums state specifically that almost any type of criminality is allowed ‚ÄĒ bank fraud, counterfeiting documents, weapons sales. One of the few rules: no work in Russia or the former Soviet Union. In Carding World, and in many other forums, a violation results in a lifetime ban.

The F.B.I. has long been stymied in its efforts to get Russian cybercriminals. For a time, the bureau had high hopes that its agents and Russian investigators with the F.S.B. would work together to target Russian thieves who had made a specialty of stealing Americans‚Äô credit card information and breaking into their bank accounts. ‚ÄúHere‚Äôs to great investigations,‚ÄĚ F.B.I. and F.S.B. agents would toast each other at Manhattan steakhouses during periodic trust-building visits, Mr. Berglas said.

But help rarely seemed to materialize. After a while, agents began to worry that the Russian authorities were recruiting the very suspects that the F.B.I. was pursuing. The joke among Justice Department officials was the Russians were more likely to pin a medal on a suspected criminal hacker than help the F.B.I. nab him.

‚ÄúAlmost all the hackers who have been announced by the U.S. government through indictments are immediately tracked by the Russian government,‚ÄĚ said Arkady Bukh, a New York-based lawyer who often represents Russian hackers arrested in the United States. ‚ÄúAll the time they‚Äôre asked to provide logistical and technical support.‚ÄĚ

While it was a widely held suspicion, it is tough to prove the connection between cyberthieves and Russian intelligence. But in one case, Mr. Berglas said, F.B.I. agents monitoring an infected computer were surprised to see a hacker who was the target of their investigation share a copy of his passport with a person the F.B.I. believed to be a Russian intelligence agent ‚ÄĒ a likely signal that the suspect was being recruited or protected. ‚ÄúThat was the closest we ever came,‚ÄĚ he said.

Fishing for Top Secrets

Mr. Bogachev‚Äôs hacking career began well over a decade ago, leading to the creation of a malicious software program called GameOver ZeuS, which he managed with the help of about a half-dozen close associates who called themselves the Business Club, according to the F.B.I. and security researchers. Working around the clock, his criminal gang infected an ever-growing network of computers. It was able to bypass the most advanced banking security measures to quickly empty accounts and transfer the money abroad through a web of intermediaries called money mules. F.B.I. officials said it was the most sophisticated online larceny scheme they had encountered ‚ÄĒ and for years, it was impenetrable.

Mr. Bogachev became extremely wealthy. At one point, he owned two villas in France and kept a fleet of cars parked around Europe so he would never have to rent a vehicle while on vacation, according to a Ukrainian law enforcement official with knowledge of the Bogachev case, who requested anonymity to discuss the continuing investigation. Officials say he had three Russian passports with different aliases allowing him to travel undercover.

At the height of his operations, Mr. Bogachev had between 500,000 and a million computers under his control, American officials said. And there is evidence that the Russian government took an interest in knowing what was on them.

Beginning around 2011, according to an analysis by Fox-IT, computers under Mr. Bogachev‚Äôs control started receiving requests for information ‚ÄĒ not about banking transactions, but for files relating to various geopolitical developments pulled from the headlines.

Around the time that former President Barack Obama¬†publicly agreed to start sending small arms and ammunition to Syrian rebels, in 2013, Turkish computers infected by Mr. Bogachev‚Äôs network were hit with keyword searches that included the terms ‚Äúweapon delivery‚ÄĚ and ‚Äúarms delivery.‚ÄĚ There were also searches for ‚ÄúRussian mercenary‚ÄĚ and ‚ÄúCaucasian mercenary,‚ÄĚ suggesting concerns about Russian citizens fighting in the war.

Ahead of Russia’s military intervention in Ukraine in 2014, infected computers were searched for information about top-secret files from the country’s main intelligence directorate, the S.B.U. Some of the queries involved searches for personal information about government security officials, including emails from Georgia’s foreign intelligence service, the Turkish Foreign Ministry and others, said Michael Sandee, one of the researchers from Fox-IT.

And at some point between March 2013 and February 2014, there were searches for English-language documents, which seemed to be fishing for American military and intelligence documents. The queries were for terms including ‚Äútop secret‚ÄĚ and ‚ÄúDepartment of Defense,‚ÄĚ said Brett Stone-Gross, a cybersecurity analyst involved in analyzing GameOver ZeuS. ‚ÄúThese were in English,‚ÄĚ he said. ‚ÄúThat was different.‚ÄĚ

Cybersecurity experts who studied the case say there is no way to know who ordered the queries. But they were so disconnected from the larceny and fraud that drove Mr. Bogachev’s operation that analysts say there can be no other motive but espionage.

Whether the searches turned up any classified document or sensitive government material is unknown, although the odds are good that there were a number of federal government employees or military contractors with infected personal computers.

‚ÄúThey had such a large number of infections, I would say it‚Äôs highly likely they had computers belonging to U.S. government and foreign government employees,‚ÄĚ Mr. Stone-Gross said.

In the summer of 2014, the F.B.I., together with law enforcement agencies in over half a dozen countries, carried out Operation Tovar, a coordinated attack on Mr. Bogachev’s criminal infrastructure that shut down his network and liberated computers infected with GameOver ZeuS.

Prosecutors said they were in talks with the Russian government, trying to secure cooperation for the capture of Mr. Bogachev. But the only apparent legal trouble Mr. Bogachev has faced in Russia was a lawsuit filed against him by a real estate company in 2011 over payment of about $75,000 on his apartment in Anapa, according to court papers there. And even that he managed to beat.

These days, officials believe Mr. Bogachev is living under his own name in Anapa and occasionally takes boat trips to Crimea, the Ukrainian peninsula that Russia occupied in 2014. Mr. Mularski, the F.B.I. supervisor, said his agents were ‚Äústill pursuing leads.‚ÄĚ

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PBS published a transcript for those video summaries here, under the heading "All of the Mueller report's major findings in less than 30 minutes."

Edited by TobiasFunke
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41 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

@whoknew

:lmao:. Conspire again?  Come on man.  Quit spreading the fake news!  If you want to be taken seriously quit lying in the topic titles.

He did admit that.  Also. This isn’t a need board, people are and should be allowed to opine in the title within reason.

That isn’t lying either.  

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3 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

because...?

Just look at it.  

-unverified nobody

-sources material to shaky twitter threads

-links to tons of far right nutjobs (Alex Jones, Ann Coulter, Candace Owens, Mark Dice, PragerU, Breitbart) to amplify message

-" HUGE!¬†ūüö®"

-"still waiting for validation"

-heavy bias in this guy's tweets- "co-architect of Snowden's treason," "aiming to destabilize the Brazilian democracy," "Moro is a national hero in Brazil and one of the strong men of President-elect Jair Bolsonaro, who recently cemented the alliance with US President Donald Trump"

This comes just days after Greenwald/Intercept published leaked communications that reveal the Brazilian judiciary to have acted politically, and in bad faith when it imprisoned Lula.  Glenn is receiving death threats, threats of deportation and arrest by Bolsonaro govt, feverswamp homophobia by the most unhinged/fascist sects of Brazil, threats against his husband and children's safety, etc.  

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On 6/16/2019 at 3:12 PM, Don't Noonan said:

Ren has been 100% correct on this Russia nonsense all along and you are calling him out as crazy?  Awesome.

Oh, so you have now read the mueller report? 

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On 6/16/2019 at 2:56 PM, ren hoek said:

I think one possible explanation for why they spied on the Trump campaign and relied on a fake conspiracy theory to do so is very simple: because they could.  They didn't think in a million years that Trump would actually win.  They didn't think in a million years that they might actually be held accountable for surveillance abuse.  As Comey said, they were "operating in a world where Hillary Clinton was going to beat Donald Trump".  If they suspected Trump would win, who's to say they wouldn't have publicized the investigation against his campaign, like they started doing months after he won?  This is the same organization that entrapped mentally ill people in terrorism plots to rack up stats, so it's not like they operate along a high moral/ethical code.  

I think the public would have rejected it as the politicized, asinine conspiracy theory it was if they'd just come straight out with it during the 2016 campaign, without all the suggestive reporting and conspiracy buildup in 2017.  That's probably at least part of the reason it wasn't made public during the campaign.  Another reason is that the roots of the investigation were so flimsy that they wouldn't dare make it public.  They knew damn well that Trump wasn't a Russian agent.  It would have been seen as blatantly political in the midst of a heated presidential campaign.  I think counterintel investigations are treated differently in a general sense than the Clinton email investigation too.  

What else were they going to say?  That they hated Trump and wanted to spy on someone they viewed as a political opponent?  That if someone like Steele came along with some cooked up intel, or someone like Halper, who'd weirdly associated with both Page and Papadopolous before CH was opened, and gave them a viable excuse to do so, even better?  I don't think any of this was an accident.  

But regardless of their motivations for doing so, it was clearly an abuse of power to rely on fake intelligence to spy on people.  Even moreso to push this fake narrative to their media partners for years.

I’m so glad you don’t vote. 

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15 hours ago, Don't Noonan said:

@whoknew

:lmao:. Conspire again?  Come on man.  Quit spreading the fake news!  If you want to be taken seriously quit lying in the topic titles.

Seriously spit out my coffee reading this title laughing.  Don’t you have to conspire a first time in order to conspire again? 

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On 6/16/2019 at 3:56 PM, ren hoek said:

I think one possible explanation for why they spied on the Trump campaign and relied on a fake conspiracy theory to do so is very simple: because they could.  They didn't think in a million years that Trump would actually win.  They didn't think in a million years that they might actually be held accountable for surveillance abuse.  As Comey said, they were "operating in a world where Hillary Clinton was going to beat Donald Trump".  If they suspected Trump would win, who's to say they wouldn't have publicized the investigation against his campaign, like they started doing months after he won?  This is the same organization that entrapped mentally ill people in terrorism plots to rack up stats, so it's not like they operate along a high moral/ethical code.  

I think the public would have rejected it as the politicized, asinine conspiracy theory it was if they'd just come straight out with it during the 2016 campaign, without all the suggestive reporting and conspiracy buildup in 2017.  That's probably at least part of the reason it wasn't made public during the campaign.  Another reason is that the roots of the investigation were so flimsy that they wouldn't dare make it public.  They knew damn well that Trump wasn't a Russian agent.  It would have been seen as blatantly political in the midst of a heated presidential campaign.  I think counterintel investigations are treated differently in a general sense than the Clinton email investigation too.  

What else were they going to say?  That they hated Trump and wanted to spy on someone they viewed as a political opponent?  That if someone like Steele came along with some cooked up intel, or someone like Halper, who'd weirdly associated with both Page and Papadopolous before CH was opened, and gave them a viable excuse to do so, even better?  I don't think any of this was an accident.  

But regardless of their motivations for doing so, it was clearly an abuse of power to rely on fake intelligence to spy on people.  Even moreso to push this fake narrative to their media partners for years.

Bad posts are a dime a dozen. What's truly special is a post so bad that the reader feels silly for having taken the poster seriously prior to reading it.  This right here is a monumental achievement, a worthy sequel to Dodds' embrace of Pizzagate. I salute you for crafting this masterpiece.

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Don't worry. Horowitz is going to uncover the massive FISA conspiracy soon. We can only hope the Obama raid is as much of a spectacle as the Stone one was.

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2 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

Bad posts are a dime a dozen. What's truly special is a post so bad that the reader feels silly for having taken the poster seriously prior to reading it.  This right here is a monumental achievement, a worthy sequel to Dodds' embrace of Pizzagate. I salute you for crafting this masterpiece.

You're right, but it would be better to stop quoting it.

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2 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

Bad posts are a dime a dozen. What's truly special is a post so bad that the reader feels silly for having taken the poster seriously prior to reading it.  This right here is a monumental achievement, a worthy sequel to Dodds' embrace of Pizzagate. I salute you for crafting this masterpiece.

Love how questioning the inherent goodness and pure intentions of our heroic g-men is beyond the pale conspiracy now.  Offering the simple possibility that they would ever abuse their power in a malicious way is now Pizzagate material.  If the past few decades have taught us anything, it’s that no one in the intelligence community ever does anything bad.  It’s really no wonder this board is an absolute cesspool for people with dissenting opinions anymore.  

People asked for an explanation why, if they wanted to sink Trump’s campaign, they didn’t reveal the Russia investigation during the campaign, and I gave them one.  They spied, potentially, because it’s a part of human nature and they had a legal excuse for it.  They didn’t reveal the existence of the investigation, potentially, because it was already in the bag for Clinton.  It’s clear they had utter contempt for Trump- that’s not a controversial claim at all.  Naturally I get gaslighted as a huge conspiracy theorist.  

But that seems more plausible to me than chasing this absolute bs conspiracy theory into the woods, let alone being dumb enough to actually believe it.  

Either they‚Äôre complete¬†dog#### at their jobs, extraordinarily incompetent, and completely incapable of separating facts from a hole in the ground. ¬†Or they knew better for a long time, yet still pushed the narrative to their willing collaborators in the press and led us down this hellhole. ¬†‚ÄúHonest mistake‚ÄĚ isn‚Äôt a valid excuse for getting it this wrong with this much impunity. ¬†Not anymore. ¬†

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24 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Love how questioning the inherent goodness and pure intentions of our heroic g-men is beyond the pale conspiracy now. 

This wasn't the bad part. 

There were many, many bad parts, but the most glaring was the suggestion that the collective intelligence/law enforcement community (which I took to be the "they" of your rant) spied on Trump (which they didn't) "because they could," and then didn't bother to leak a story that could have ended his chances at the presidency because each and every person who knew of the investigation and could have leaked it- a number probably in the hundreds- all decided that he had zero chance of winning even as the polls tightened in late October and into the first week of November. It's beyond absurd.

Some other silly parts:

- Conflating a nonsense straw man that people thought Trump is a willing "Russian agent," something that almost nobody has even suggested, with the entirely valid possibility/likelihood that his shady business deals with oligarchs and contacts with operatives during the campaign and subsequent lying about said deals and contacts left him vulnerable to blackmail or otherwise beholden to Russian interests, which would obviously and legitimately be of substantial interest. This is something you do constantly, but this is a glaring example of it. I have to admit it's truly bizarre. It's like your brain can't even process the latter explanation, like how the androids couldn't process certain things in Westworld.  People have said this to you countless times and yet you keep on ignoring it in order to keep constructing the same straw man.

- Theorizing that the entire intelligence community "hated Trump" when we have actual reporting showing that isn't true.

- Ignoring literally hundreds of people here and elsewhere who have demonstrated over and over and over that the basis for the investigation was not "fake intelligence" but was in fact the aforementioned suspicious ties and vulnerabilities so that you can peddle the same "Steele Dossier!" FISA!" nonsense echoed by the most bad faith Trump sycophants on the planet.

That seems like enough for now.  I've already given your rant far more time and attention than it warrants.

Edited by TobiasFunke
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So the FBI was against Trump. Wanted to do whatever they could to take him down.

And to that end, they announced Hillary was under investigation weeks before the election, but not a peep about how Trump was also under investigation.

How on earth could this possibly be an attempt to help Hillary and hurt Trump again?

Anyone?

I mean, that seems to defy all logic and reason, but I'm willing to listen.

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8 minutes ago, Skoo said:

So the FBI was against Trump. Wanted to do whatever they could to take him down.

And to that end, they announced Hillary was under investigation weeks before the election, but not a peep about how Trump was also under investigation.

How on earth could this possibly be an attempt to help Hillary and hurt Trump again?

Anyone?

I mean, that seems to defy all logic and reason, but I'm willing to listen.

"Ask them."

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39 minutes ago, Skoo said:

So the FBI was against Trump. Wanted to do whatever they could to take him down.

And to that end, they announced Hillary was under investigation weeks before the election, but not a peep about how Trump was also under investigation.

How on earth could this possibly be an attempt to help Hillary and hurt Trump again?

Anyone?

I mean, that seems to defy all logic and reason, but I'm willing to listen. ÔĽŅ

many people are saying this.  Many people, okay?

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On 6/16/2019 at 3:56 PM, ren hoek said:

I think one possible explanation for why they spied on the Trump campaign and relied on a fake conspiracy theory to do so is very simple: because they could.  They didn't think in a million years that Trump would actually win.  They didn't think in a million years that they might actually be held accountable for surveillance abuse.  As Comey said, they were "operating in a world where Hillary Clinton was going to beat Donald Trump".  If they suspected Trump would win, who's to say they wouldn't have publicized the investigation against his campaign, like they started doing months after he won?  This is the same organization that entrapped mentally ill people in terrorism plots to rack up stats, so it's not like they operate along a high moral/ethical code.  

I think the public would have rejected it as the politicized, asinine conspiracy theory it was if they'd just come straight out with it during the 2016 campaign, without all the suggestive reporting and conspiracy buildup in 2017.  That's probably at least part of the reason it wasn't made public during the campaign.  Another reason is that the roots of the investigation were so flimsy that they wouldn't dare make it public.  They knew damn well that Trump wasn't a Russian agent.  It would have been seen as blatantly political in the midst of a heated presidential campaign.  I think counterintel investigations are treated differently in a general sense than the Clinton email investigation too.  

What else were they going to say?  That they hated Trump and wanted to spy on someone they viewed as a political opponent?  That if someone like Steele came along with some cooked up intel, or someone like Halper, who'd weirdly associated with both Page and Papadopolous before CH was opened, and gave them a viable excuse to do so, even better?  I don't think any of this was an accident.  

But regardless of their motivations for doing so, it was clearly an abuse of power to rely on fake intelligence to spy on people.  Even moreso to push this fake narrative to their media partners for years.

So the Shark move of these career intelligence guys is to wait with the information....until the guy they're spying on wins the election...so that way he can definitely punish them....instead of using the spying info to prevent him from getting to be in charge?

 

I guess it's a plan. 

Edited by Thunderlips

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Just now, Thunderlips said:

So the Shark move of these career intelligence guys is to wait until the guy they're spying on wins the election...so that way he can definitely punish them....instead of using the spying info to prevent him from getting to be in charge?

 

I guess it's a plan. 

Seeing how they had no spying info against Trump why would they come forward and say they were investigating Trump if the they knew it could backfire since they starting investigating Trump on false premises?

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2 hours ago, Skoo said:

So the FBI was against Trump. Wanted to do whatever they could to take him down.

And to that end, they announced Hillary was under investigation weeks before the election, but not a peep about how Trump was also under investigation.

How on earth could this possibly be an attempt to help Hillary and hurt Trump again?

Anyone?

I mean, that seems to defy all logic and reason, but I'm willing to listen.

Because it was an attempt to ACTUALLY hurt Trump.  If they come out against Hillary....then people will think that Trump/Russia is behind it...and people won't vote for him. 

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2 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Seeing how they had no spying info against Trump why would they come forward and say they were investigating Trump if the they knew it could backfire since they starting investigating Trump on false premises?

So they wait until he gets in charge to bring out false information? 

Edited by Thunderlips
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5 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Seeing how they had no spying info against Trump why would they come forward and say they were investigating Trump if the they knew it could backfire since they starting investigating Trump on false premises?

They stared investigating him on false premises?  Care to link to that?

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6 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

Because it was an attempt to ACTUALLY hurt ÔĽŅTrump.¬† If they come out against Hillary....then ÔĽŅpeople ÔĽŅwill think ÔĽŅthat Trump/Russia ÔĽŅis behind it...and people won't vote for him.¬†

but they did very publicly re-open the Clinton e-mail case.  No one said that Trump/Russia was behind it.

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3 hours ago, ren hoek said:

Love how questioning the inherent goodness and pure intentions of our heroic g-men is beyond the pale conspiracy now.  Offering the simple possibility that they would ever abuse their power in a malicious way is now Pizzagate material.  If the past few decades have taught us anything, it’s that no one in the intelligence community ever does anything bad.  It’s really no wonder this board is an absolute cesspool for people with dissenting opinions anymore.  

People asked for an explanation why, if they wanted to sink Trump’s campaign, they didn’t reveal the Russia investigation during the campaign, and I gave them one.  They spied, potentially, because it’s a part of human nature and they had a legal excuse for it.  They didn’t reveal the existence of the investigation, potentially, because it was already in the bag for Clinton.  It’s clear they had utter contempt for Trump- that’s not a controversial claim at all.  Naturally I get gaslighted as a huge conspiracy theorist.  

But that seems more plausible to me than chasing this absolute bs conspiracy theory into the woods, let alone being dumb enough to actually believe it.  

Either they‚Äôre complete¬†dog#### at their jobs, extraordinarily incompetent, and completely incapable of separating facts from a hole in the ground. ¬†Or they knew better for a long time, yet still pushed the narrative to their willing collaborators in the press and led us down this hellhole. ¬†‚ÄúHonest mistake‚ÄĚ isn‚Äôt a valid excuse for getting it this wrong with this much impunity. ¬†Not anymore. ¬†

What an odd way to interpret your own posts.

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1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

They stared investigating him on false premises?  Care to link to that?

in before the dossier is cited, ignoring the investigation was begun well before the investigators were aware of it's existence.

 

h/t to @Bluto Blutarsky 

Edited by moleculo
clarified statement per Bluto's correction.
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2 minutes ago, moleculo said:

in before the dossier is cited, ignoring the investigation was begun well before.

And that the investigation wasn’t based in the dossier....nor was the entire dossier ever used. 

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McConnell and the Republicans are at it again.

At any time, Senate Republicans can remove him as Senate Leader. All it takes is 4 of Senate Republicans to remove him from that position.

Each and every Republican that is okay with his actions are culpable with handing our country over, each and every day, to corrupt individuals. Each and every.

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9 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Lots of crow will be eaten in here.  Can't wait!

Would you like fries with that?

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