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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn

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16 hours ago, ren hoek said:

It might not for Trump's personal aims.  I've already acknowledged Trump's reasons for doing this are self-serving.  Perhaps Trump is 'weaponizing intelligence.' Which has been happening to him for 2 years now.  Intelligence doesn't get more weaponized than spying on a political opponent, then subverting his presidency.  You said it yourself.  They are political enemies when they should have been agnostic professionals.  We have yet to see a good reason why a surveillance operation of this scale was triggered against his campaign.

It's not about protecting this admin.  I've had to explain over and over again that that's not my concern here.  My concern is that an illegitimate surveillance campaign was launched against a presidential candidate by politically motivated individuals, driven at least in part by a bogus smear dossier paid for by the opposing candidate's campaign.  You don't have to be a Trump sycophant to have a problem with that. 

No, you don't have to be a Trump sycophant to regurgitate his baseless claims like the above.  Consuming a steady diet of Russian propaganda is enough.  Funny how similar their messages are

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17 hours ago, ren hoek said:

Intelligence doesn't get more weaponized than spying on a political opponent, then subverting his presidency.

You mis-spelled "foreign criminal".

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16 hours ago, NFL2DF said:

I have said it before, Joe is going to have to delete this entire subforum at some point because of the fringe bordering on radical conspiracies that fill these pages.

The QAnon thread is pretty weird, you're right. But it's just one thread.

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21 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

I've paid enough attention to know that your claims here are delusional at best.

Let’s not...the TDS thing is bad from that side...just giving them ammo whine about mods. 

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17 hours ago, ren hoek said:

It might not for Trump's personal aims.  I've already acknowledged Trump's reasons for doing this are self-serving.  Perhaps Trump is 'weaponizing intelligence.' Which has been happening to him for 2 years now.  Intelligence doesn't get more weaponized than spying on a political opponent, then subverting his presidency.  You said it yourself.  They are political enemies when they should have been agnostic professionals.  We have yet to see a good reason why a surveillance operation of this scale was triggered against his campaign.

It's not about protecting this admin.  I've had to explain over and over again that that's not my concern here.  My concern is that an illegitimate surveillance campaign was launched against a presidential candidate by politically motivated individuals, driven at least in part by a bogus smear dossier paid for by the opposing candidate's campaign.  You don't have to be a Trump sycophant to have a problem with that. 

No, but you do have to be a Trump sycophant (or at least someone with a Trump-sized blind spot) to think most of this is remotely true.

To pick one of many falsehoods in your post- there was no "illegitimate surveillance campaign launched against a presidential candidate."  Carter Page has been under surveillance due to his Russia ties for years

 

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16 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Let’s not...the TDS thing is bad from that side...just giving them ammo whine about mods. 

What are you talking about?  There is no personal attack or insult there. 

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Ken Dilanian‏Verified account @KenDilanianNBC

Just in, per @garretthaake: Sen. @MarkWarner, who has read the documents, says of Trump's decision to declassify raw intelligence about his campaign's alleged conspiracy with Russia: "Be careful what you wish for."

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

What are you talking about?  There is no personal attack or insult there. 

Calling someone delusional.

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Calling someone delusional.

I didn't.  I called his claim delusional at best

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3 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Good history there.

Quote

In the months leading up to the 2016 election, senior Russia House officials held a series of meetings in a conference room adorned with Stalin-era posters, seeking to make sense of disconcerting reports that Moscow had mounted a covert operation to upend the U.S. presidential race.

By early August, the sense of alarm had become so acute that CIA Director John Brennan called White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough. “I need to get in to see the president,” Brennan said, with unusual urgency in his voice.

Brennan had just spent two days sequestered in his office reviewing a small mountain of material on Russia. The conference table at the center of the dark-paneled room was stacked with dozens of binders bearing stamps of TS/SCI — for “top secret, sensitive compartmented information” — and code words corresponding to collection platforms aimed at the Kremlin.

There were piles of finished assessments, but Brennan had also ordered up what agency veterans call the “raw stuff” — unprocessed material from informants, listening devices, computer implants and other sources. Clearing his schedule, Brennan pored over all of it, his door closed, staying so late that the glow through his office windows remained visible deep into the night from the darkened driveway that winds past the headquarters building’s main entrance.

 

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1 hour ago, The Indestructible said:

Ken Dilanian‏Verified account @KenDilanianNBC

Just in, per @garretthaake: Sen. @MarkWarner, who has read the documents, says of Trump's decision to declassify raw intelligence about his campaign's alleged conspiracy with Russia: "Be careful what you wish for."

 

 

The likeliest result will be that Democrats call it a nothingburger, Trump fans and especially the Q crowd will be ecstatic but frustrated with the failure of the MSM to report it “correctly”, and by next week we’ll all be talking about some new aspect of the Mueller investigation. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

The likeliest result will be that Democrats call it a nothingburger, Trump fans and especially the Q crowd will be ecstatic but frustrated with the failure of the MSM to report it “correctly”, and by next week we’ll all be talking about some new aspect of the Mueller investigation. 

And what will the judge say?

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28 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Great lunchtime read.

This passage isn't relevant to the Russia issues, but I thought our good friend @ren hoek, who seems deeply (and reasonably) troubled by drone strikes and other US actions that harm innocent civilians abroad, might enjoy it:
 

Quote

 

When told that the CIA flew surveillance flights over Syria but that only the military conducted strikes — an Obama policy meant to return the agency’s focus to its core espionage mission — Trump made clear he wanted those restrictions wiped away and for the agency to start firing. “If you can do it in 10 days, get it done,” he said, an edict that was ultimately implemented, though it took longer than he wished.

When the agency’s head of drone operations explained how the CIA had developed special munitions to limit civilian casualties, the president seemed nonplused. Shown a strike in which the CIA delayed firing until the target was a safe distance from a compound with other occupants, Trump asked, “Why did you wait?” And when Trump noticed that militants had scattered seconds before another drone attack, he said, “Can they hear the bombs coming? We should make the bombs silent so they can’t get away.”

 

If Obama is a "war criminal," what does that make Trump?

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5 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

And what will the judge say?

“I have no recollection and please don’t ask me to testify.” 

Wait, wrong Judge? 

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2 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Great lunchtime read.

This passage isn't relevant to the Russia issues, but I thought our good friend @ren hoek, who seems deeply (and reasonably) troubled by drone strikes and other US actions that harm innocent civilians abroad, might enjoy it:
 

If Obama is a "war criminal," what does that make Trump?

:lmao::lmao::lmao: to think that Trump gives a #### about civilians or anyone in the middle east, Africa or any other non-white country.  He's a wanna be tough guy and wears it like a badge of honor....

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7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The likeliest result will be that Democrats call it a nothingburger, Trump fans and especially the Q crowd will be ecstatic but frustrated with the failure of the MSM to report it “correctly”, and by next week we’ll all be talking about some new aspect of the Mueller investigation. 

Well, at least you're starting to come to grips with the fact this is all just a piece of a neverending investigation meant to distract us from addressing real issues in this country. Glad somebody from your "side" is finally waking up.

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2 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

Well, at least you're starting to come to grips with the fact this is all just a piece of a neverending investigation meant to distract us from addressing real issues in this country. Glad somebody from your "side" is finally waking up.

Trump's quest about this FISA stuff and Nunes?  True...its all just a distraction from the actual investigation that has put people in jail and finds new things every few weeks.

 

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14 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Trump's quest about this FISA stuff and Nunes?  True...its all just a distraction from the actual investigation that has put people in jail and finds new things every few weeks.

But has it gotten Trump yet? Getting him out is really all this investigation is about. And it won't happen.

Edited by ShamrockPride
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5 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

But has it gotten Trump yet? Getting him out is really all this investigation is about. And it won't happen.

False again.  You are showing you don't seem to grasp the actual investigation here at all.

 

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Just now, Matthias said:

A victim of the Deep State and MSM lies?

Ren won't like the openers. Trump, Russia, and Wikileaks all tied together.

 

I've given up on engaging him on Trump/Russia/Wikileaks. He's pot-committed to his position there. Trump could say "I did the collusion with Russia" and show a video of him and Putin plotting out the timing of the email leaks and the social media microtargeting over milkshakes, and he'd have to find a way to explain it away.

But his hatred of drone strikes and other military actions that take out civilians seems genuine and IMO is a good, patriotic, morally upstanding position, even if he gets a little over the top with it at times. So I'm curious to here his reaction to this passage, which strongly suggests that Trump is far, far worse than Obama on the issue.

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

False again.  You are showing you don't seem to grasp the actual investigation here at all.

Keep believing what you type. 

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2 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

To pick one of many falsehoods in your post- there was no "illegitimate surveillance campaign launched against a presidential candidate."  Carter Page has been under surveillance due to his Russia ties for years

And Crossfire Hurricane, a surveillance op initiated on the strength of hearsay from a campaign aide, for which that person was charged with....... 14 days in jail?  

"So, if Carter Page was acting as a foreign intelligence agent for Russia as far back as 2013, as has been repeatedly implied by mainstream reports, why did FBI agents at the time not see him as such? Based on the information provided above, it seems perfectly plausible that Page thought he was developing a relationship with someone who was a legitimate business contact. If Page had illegally or unethically shared sensitive information with Podobnyy, why would Monaghan have omitted this given that such an action by Page would have strengthened the FBI’s case against Sporyshev and Podobnyy?

Another question raised by these documents concerns why Comey’s FBI would have considered Page to unquestionably be a Russian agent: If Page cooperated with the FBI in 2013 and provided them information that ultimately aided the DOJ’s successful prosecution of a third Russian spy who had worked with Sporyshev and Podobnyy (Evgeny Buryakov), why would Russian intelligence have trusted Page enough to hire him as an asset in a major intel operation directed against the U.S. government and one of its major political parties? Wouldn't Russian intelligence have put out a notice to avoid Page as an unreliable and potentially dangerous contact?

In order to answer these questions, the public needs to see more of the classified materials that first sparked the Trump-Russia collusion investigation. If there is concrete evidence that Page was in the employ of the Kremlin while he was an advisor to the Trump campaign in 2016, the American people deserve to know. If not, then that spells a great deal more trouble for anyone who authorized the FISA warrants against Page." 

Carter Page helped the FBI catch Russian spies.  Where does that one fit into the conspiracy?

So we have George P, an ambitious nobody that was trying to win favor with the campaign brass, who obviously didn't know jack #### about a Russian conspiracy.  Paul Manafort, who was trying to bring Ukraine to the West and recruited EU/US contacts to do so, the complete opposite of the story people have been speculating on for a year.  Carter Page, an energy policy nerd that wasn't charged with anything and cooperated with the FBI on a different occasion.   

Where is the collusion?  Where is the smoking gun that gave them a pretext to surveil the Trump campaign?  Or reason to suspect some sort of collaborative relationship as it pertained to the Wikileaks release at all?  Two years in, the evidence that supposedly informed their decision-making still isn't making any sense.  

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I have no idea what thread this should go in.

The Russian propaganda guide to stealing your roommate’s burrito

Quote

Crap, you have stolen your roommate’s burrito. It happens to the best of us. Don’t have a roommate? I assume you’ve stolen something at least once from the communal fridge at work/accidentally picked up someone else’s sandwich order (I’ll have it be known, that under the right circumstances and/or with the right amount of liquor, “Pete” can totally sound like “Natalia”). Oh, you’re some kind of saint and you don’t steal food? Whatever, people like you are not real.

Anyway, now that the burrito has been stolen, you basically have two options:

Admit to the crime and pay some ridiculous penance in the amount of at least two cans of La Croix, or do something equally humiliating.

FIGHT THE CHARGES RUSSIAN-PROPAGANDA STYLE.

Quote

Point out random historical grievances in support of your argument
Your roommate is not so innocent! He’s certainly screwed up in the past!
Recall, in great detail:
The Great Exploding Coors Can Tragedy of 2015
That Time His Cousin Stayed Over (You’re Not Sure What Happened, But It Was Probably Unpleasant)
The Fact That He Doesn’t Listen To Any Music Recorded After 2006
The Fact That Living With A Roommate Generally Sucks, So Screw This Economy That We Are ALL Propping Up By Ordering Burritos All The Time

Blame Hillary Clinton
It has worked for many other people in the past.

 

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1 minute ago, fatness said:

I have no idea what thread this should go in.

The Russian propaganda guide to stealing your roommate’s burrito

 

Add the Maduro rwist:

Immediately go to the best steak place in town where you film yourself eating a ginormous staeak (while your roommate still starves) in order to prove that you didn't eat his burrito. 

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57 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

Keep believing what you type. 

As long as you keep posting blatantly false things...its not hard to believe what I type...since its true.

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1 hour ago, ren hoek said:

And Crossfire Hurricane, a surveillance op initiated on the strength of hearsay from a campaign aide, for which that person was charged with....... 14 days in jail?  

"So, if Carter Page was acting as a foreign intelligence agent for Russia as far back as 2013, as has been repeatedly implied by mainstream reports, why did FBI agents at the time not see him as such? Based on the information provided above, it seems perfectly plausible that Page thought he was developing a relationship with someone who was a legitimate business contact. If Page had illegally or unethically shared sensitive information with Podobnyy, why would Monaghan have omitted this given that such an action by Page would have strengthened the FBI’s case against Sporyshev and Podobnyy?

Another question raised by these documents concerns why Comey’s FBI would have considered Page to unquestionably be a Russian agent: If Page cooperated with the FBI in 2013 and provided them information that ultimately aided the DOJ’s successful prosecution of a third Russian spy who had worked with Sporyshev and Podobnyy (Evgeny Buryakov), why would Russian intelligence have trusted Page enough to hire him as an asset in a major intel operation directed against the U.S. government and one of its major political parties? Wouldn't Russian intelligence have put out a notice to avoid Page as an unreliable and potentially dangerous contact?

In order to answer these questions, the public needs to see more of the classified materials that first sparked the Trump-Russia collusion investigation. If there is concrete evidence that Page was in the employ of the Kremlin while he was an advisor to the Trump campaign in 2016, the American people deserve to know. If not, then that spells a great deal more trouble for anyone who authorized the FISA warrants against Page." 

Carter Page helped the FBI catch Russian spies.  Where does that one fit into the conspiracy?

So we have George P, an ambitious nobody that was trying to win favor with the campaign brass, who obviously didn't know jack #### about a Russian conspiracy.  Paul Manafort, who was trying to bring Ukraine to the West and recruited EU/US contacts to do so, the complete opposite of the story people have been speculating on for a year.  Carter Page, an energy policy nerd that wasn't charged with anything and cooperated with the FBI on a different occasion.   

Where is the collusion?  Where is the smoking gun that gave them a pretext to surveil the Trump campaign?  Or reason to suspect some sort of collaborative relationship as it pertained to the Wikileaks release at all?  Two years in, the evidence that supposedly informed their decision-making still isn't making any sense.  

I'm wondering why you chose to rehash this stuff for the umpteenth time instead of addressing the passage from the Post book excerpt about Trump wanting to bomb the hell out of civilians.

Maybe you missed it?  Here's my post.

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1 hour ago, Matthias said:

We agree that Assaunge colluded with the Russians to release the e-mails which they hacked from the DNC though, right? The ones they hacked and fed to him to be released in order to influence the election in favor of Donald Trump?

Being a journalist and publishing documents from a source isn't collusion. 

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17 minutes ago, Matthias said:

When a source feeds you documents they obtained illegally in order to influence a country's election, and you accept them, and you publish them while the election is at a critical point, you've colluded.

Assaunge isn't a journalist.

His name is also not Assaunge.

IT'S ASSANGE; FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!! :rant: 

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Just now, msommer said:

His name is also not Assaunge.

IT'S ASSANGE; FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!! :rant: 

I think this just leads back to if it's Don McGahn or Dawn McGawn.

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so the idiot, I mean the President, is ordering the FISA application declassification based on FoxNews hosts who have never read and have no idea of the contents...BRILLIANT!!  

Matthew Gertz

Transcript of The Hill's Trump interview reveals he says he called for declassifying the FISA application because he was "asked by so many people that I respect" including "the great Lou Dobbs, the great Sean Hannity, the wonderful great Jeanie Pirro." 

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The Steele Dossier was stuck in the NY field office of the FBI from July 2016 until mid-September 2016, when it was finally forwarded to the main DC FBI office. The NY field office was the office that was feeding information to Giuliani during the campaign. The explanation for it sitting there for all that time is that it was given to "the wrong person" at the FBI.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-dossier-stuck-york-trigger-russia-investigation-sources/story?id=57919471

 

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1 minute ago, fatness said:

The Steele Dossier was stuck in the NY field office of the FBI from July 2016 until mid-September 2016, when it was finally forwarded to the main DC FBI office. The NY field office was the office that was feeding information to Giuliani during the campaign. The explanation for it sitting there for all that time is that it was given to "the wrong person" at the FBI.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-dossier-stuck-york-trigger-russia-investigation-sources/story?id=57919471

 

it fell behind the filing cabinet and when we moved some furniture we noticed it....

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Just now, Banger said:

it fell behind the filing cabinet and when we moved some furniture we noticed it....

Was this the Manitowoc field office?

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Peter Strzok is the one who received it in the FBI's DC office in September, 2016. The NY office delayed that happening several months, the office that Giuliani had friends and contacts in.

No wonder the administration is going after Strzok.

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48 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I'm wondering why you chose to rehash this stuff for the umpteenth time instead of addressing the passage from the Post book excerpt about Trump wanting to bomb the hell out of civilians.

Maybe you missed it?  Here's my post.

It makes him a war criminal.  See how easy that is?  I don't have to apologize for him or put little airquotes around it, as if there's some sort of moral highground with the polite liberal version of mass murder and destruction.  

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7 minutes ago, fatness said:

The Steele Dossier was stuck in the NY field office of the FBI from July 2016 until mid-September 2016, when it was finally forwarded to the main DC FBI office. The NY field office was the office that was feeding information to Giuliani during the campaign. The explanation for it sitting there for all that time is that it was given to "the wrong person" at the FBI.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-dossier-stuck-york-trigger-russia-investigation-sources/story?id=57919471

 

Seth Abramson is going to go have a 300+ tweetstorm about this.  He has been railing against the pro-Trump NY field office for a while now.  

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Just now, ren hoek said:

It makes him a war criminal.  See how easy that is?  I don't have to apologize for him or put little airquotes around it, as if there's some sort of moral highground with the polite liberal version of mass murder and destruction.  

Welcome to the resistance!

Personally I think it makes him far worse than Obama, in that he seems to be doing it intentionally or at least recklessly, whereas Obama at least tried to avoid/limit civilian casualties. A different "mens rea" to borrow a legal term. Would you agree with that, or do you think it's not relevant?

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11 minutes ago, fatness said:

The Steele Dossier was stuck in the NY field office of the FBI from July 2016 until mid-September 2016, when it was finally forwarded to the main DC FBI office. The NY field office was the office that was feeding information to Giuliani during the campaign. The explanation for it sitting there for all that time is that it was given to "the wrong person" at the FBI.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-dossier-stuck-york-trigger-russia-investigation-sources/story?id=57919471

 

The FBI illegally filed a FISA to monitor the upstanding and totally stable Carter Page KNOWING that months later the phony dossier would be sent to the FBI.  Q has rumored that the Deep State has a time machine and this is clearly proof.

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6 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Welcome to the resistance!

Personally I think it makes him far worse than Obama, in that he seems to be doing it intentionally or at least recklessly, whereas Obama at least tried to avoid/limit civilian casualties. A different "mens rea" to borrow a legal term. Would you agree with that, or do you think it's not relevant?

this is from a year ago...https://www.newsweek.com/trump-has-already-killed-more-civilians-obama-us-fight-against-isis-653564

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2 minutes ago, Dickies said:

He believes what he reads or hears from conspiracy sites, which leak into Fox News more and more.

Remember how the Nunes Memo was going to blow things out of the water? And the IG report was going to blow things out of the water? Those were matters of belief, not knowledge. And neither blew things out of the water.

And now for chapter 3.

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2 minutes ago, fatness said:

He believes what he reads or hears from conspiracy sites, which leak into Fox News more and more.

Remember how the Nunes Memo was going to blow things out of the water? And the IG report was going to blow things out of the water? Those were matters of belief, not knowledge. And neither blew things out of the water.

And now for chapter 3.

like a blind folded kid trying to hit a pinata

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16 minutes ago, Banger said:

like a blind folded kid trying to hit a pinata

those tiny hands make it hard for him to hold the stick.

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27 minutes ago, Banger said:

like a blind folded kid trying to hit a pinata

Is there a space too much or a comma too little in this sentence. If comma, how does a folded kid play pinata?

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1 hour ago, msommer said:

His name is also not Assaunge.

IT'S ASSANGE; FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!! :rant: 

I was reading this earlier in the afternoon and for like an hour, I was trying to figure out who "Assaunge" was...

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1 hour ago, SacramentoBob said:

Was this the Manitowoc field office?

You’ve never lived til you’re been to Manitowok.

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2 hours ago, fatness said:

The Steele Dossier was stuck in the NY field office of the FBI from July 2016 until mid-September 2016, when it was finally forwarded to the main DC FBI office. The NY field office was the office that was feeding information to Giuliani during the campaign. The explanation for it sitting there for all that time is that it was given to "the wrong person" at the FBI.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-dossier-stuck-york-trigger-russia-investigation-sources/story?id=57919471

 

Cue the complaining about “sources say”

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