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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn

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6 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

Great lunchtime read.

This passage isn't relevant to the Russia issues, but I thought our good friend @ren hoek, who seems deeply (and reasonably) troubled by drone strikes and other US actions that harm innocent civilians abroad, might enjoy it:
 

If Obama is a "war criminal," what does that make Trump?

Is where the Trump supporters give him credit for not suggesting using invisible drones? 

Still a piece of garbage though. 

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34 minutes ago, Encyclopedia Brown said:

I have been to Oconomowoc. Nice place. 

Meh. Suburbia

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3 hours ago, Banger said:
3 hours ago, fatness said:

The Steele Dossier was stuck in the NY field office of the FBI from July 2016 until mid-September 2016, when it was finally forwarded to the main DC FBI office. The NY field office was the office that was feeding information to Giuliani during the campaign. The explanation for it sitting there for all that time is that it was given to "the wrong person" at the FBI.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-dossier-stuck-york-trigger-russia-investigation-sources/story?id=57919471

 

it fell behind the filing cabinet and when we moved some furniture we noticed it.

It really does undercut Trump's complaints about the July 2016 FISA request being "illegally" based on the Steele Dossier. The main FBI office didn't even have the Dossier until September 2016.

So we have Rudy's folks (then) sabotaging Trump (now). :lol:

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2 hours ago, sho nuff said:

You’ve never lived til you’re been to Manitowok.

:oldunsure:

I've been to Manitowoc...  I'M ALIVE!!!!

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3 hours ago, -fish- said:

those tiny hands make it hard for him to hold the stick.

Nothing 10 mushroom-shaped thimbles could not fix.

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21 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

:oldunsure:

I've been to Manitowoc...  I'M ALIVE!!!!

But have you ever been to Mishicot?

Edited by sho nuff

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9 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

But have you ever been to Mishicot?

Reedsville and Whitelaw, but I don't think I have been to Mishicot - at least not intentionally.

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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Reedsville and Whitelaw, but I don't think I have been to Mishicot - at least not intentionally.

“Nice” golf resort there I went to a lot in the 80s with the family. Went back again in the early 2000s for a couple spa days for the wife and golf for me.  

By nice...hotel is a laugh, some condos are ok...it’s really in the middle of nowhere but the courses are nice and it wasn’t too far from my family so we went for a few days prior to visiting family (and close enough my brother came for 18 hopes while wife was at the spa one of the days).

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3 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

I was reading this earlier in the afternoon and for like an hour, I was trying to figure out who "Assaunge" was...

Not sure I'd admit that lack of ability to discern context but props to you on self-awareness. 

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2 minutes ago, Ignoramus said:

Not sure I'd admit that lack of ability to discern context but props to you on self-awareness. 

Assaunge has a very different twang on it than Assange. The U makes a big difference in pronunciation. Also...I had no clue people were still discussing him as if he were relevant, so he was pretty far from my mind. Thanks for the concern though.

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7 hours ago, Matthias said:

We agree that Assaunge colluded with the Russians to release the e-mails which they hacked from the DNC though, right? The ones they hacked and fed to him to be released in order to influence the election in favor of Donald Trump?

 

8 hours ago, ren hoek said:

Or reason to suspect some sort of collaborative relationship as it pertained to the Wikileaks release at all?

Yes. How could anyone even guess in under an hour which Aussuange could be the topic of discussion here given the topics of leaks and Russia and emails and DNC? Why is Assage even being discussed anymore?

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6 minutes ago, Ignoramus said:

Yes. How could anyone even guess in under an hour which Aussuange could be the topic of discussion here given the topics of leaks and Russia and emails and DNC? Why is Assage even being discussed anymore?

A great question. I thought we were onto sentencing people at this point, so not sure why we're discussing talking points from 2 years ago.

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33 minutes ago, Ignoramus said:

Not sure I'd admit that lack of ability to discern context but props to you on self-awareness. 

rofl

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1 hour ago, Ignoramus said:

Not sure I'd admit that lack of ability to discern context but props to you on self-awareness. 

Omg :rofl:

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1 hour ago, Ignoramus said:

How could anyone even guess in under an hour which Aussuange could be the topic of discussion here given the topics of leaks and Russia and emails and DNC? Why is Assage even being discussed anymore?

Because it's great in Thanksgiving stuffing.

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Quote

The result, as Hall put it to me, has been a patchwork legal defense without any unifying theory of the case. “They seem to have a lot of agendas but no strategy so far has been forthcoming.”

Quote

The graver mistake, according to legal experts I spoke with, is that the Trump team underestimated the Mueller threat and failed to staff up in the face of it. “I have been surprised by the apparent small size of the legal team representing the White House and the president and other witnesses,” Garber told me. “In past investigations of the White House under other administrations, the legal teams were quite large and well-resourced and even in much less significant cases, you see legal teams with better resources. . . . This is a complicated investigation.”

Quote

If the Trump team has, in fact, failed to do a deep dive into what witnesses know and what they might spill to Mueller, it might be too late to make up lost ground.

That's what you get for hiring Rudy Giuliani to be your lawyer because he'll tell you what you want to hear.

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Watched Active Measures and, yeah, pretty much.  Putin backed his puppet with the precise MO as he’s done elsewhere. Same talking points.  Same agenda.  Same deconstruction of democracy.  Right down to Paulie brought in to run the playbook. 

Edited by Mr. Ham

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John Weaver‏ @JWGOP

Two U.S. Senators told me in the last 7 days Jeff Sessions will be fired almost immediately after Nov 6. Both are pathetically Trump followers now, but somewhat embarrassed.

 

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13 minutes ago, fatness said:

John Weaver‏ @JWGOP

Two U.S. Senators told me in the last 7 days Jeff Sessions will be fired almost immediately after Nov 6. Both are pathetically Trump followers now, but somewhat embarrassed.

Hilariously and sadly Hannity also discussing how the declassification review would be a pretext for canning Sessions. Should be nada but of course he’s practically a WH advisor.

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9 hours ago, The Indestructible said:

 

Seth Abramson is going to go have a 300+ tweetstorm about this.  He has been railing against the pro-Trump NY field office for a while now.  

This should be really good. I also have a feeling the unredacted text dump has not really been vetted by the people it will end up hurting the most. I am anticipating a gratifying next week.

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2 hours ago, fatness said:
Quote

John Weaver‏ @JWGOP

Two U.S. Senators told me in the last 7 days Jeff Sessions will be fired almost immediately after Nov 6. Both are pathetically Trump followers now, but somewhat embarrassed.

 

No loyalty, yet he demands it from others.

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 The only thing worse than Trump Russia collusion is Wisconsin. 

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33 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

 The only thing worse than Trump Russia collusion is Wisconsin. 

The talk about small Wisconsin towns that no one cares about is amazing in this thread. The towns mentioned above are a blast in the past because I spent many years in Green Bay and those towns were towns you drove by... never visited for any particular reason.

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44 minutes ago, Mario Kart said:

The talk about small Wisconsin towns that no one cares about is amazing in this thread. The towns mentioned above are a blast in the past because I spent many years in Green Bay and those towns were towns you drove by... never visited for any particular reason.

Just don’t you dare bad mouth Neenah-Menasha

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31 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Is that your mee-maw?

It’s two towns actually...and a song by Sponge

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41 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

It’s two towns actually...and a song by Sponge

I thought sponge only had one song...maybe two....

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13 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:
13 hours ago, fatness said:

John Weaver‏ @JWGOP

Two U.S. Senators told me in the last 7 days Jeff Sessions will be fired almost immediately after Nov 6. Both are pathetically Trump followers now, but somewhat embarrassed.

Hilariously and sadly Hannity also discussing how the declassification review would be a pretext for canning Sessions. Should be nada but of course he’s practically a WH advisor.

One of the positives of this if it happens is it will completely destroy the Q conspiracy as Sessions is said to be a central figure and protected.  

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The Times has published a thorough review of Russia's efforts to swing the 2016 election, including discussion of contacts with Trump associates.  It is ... long.  And there's graphs, links, all kinds of stuff. I'm only a third of the way through. It's really well done so far. The part I've most enjoyed so far is that it gets into detail about why Putin would do this, something I've never fully understood. For example:
 

Quote

 

After Russian troops seized Crimea and carried out a stealth invasion of Ukraine in 2014, relations grew openly hostile. American support for the new government in Kiev and condemnation of Russian behavior heightened Mr. Putin’s rage at being told what he could do and not do in what he considered his own backyard.

If Russia had only a fraction of the United States’ military might and nothing like its economic power, it had honed its abilities in hacking and influence operations through attacks in Eastern Europe. And it could turn these weapons on America to even the score.

By making mischief in the 2016 election, Mr. Putin could wreak revenge on his enemy, Mrs. Clinton, the presumed Democratic nominee, damaging if not defeating her. He could highlight the polarized state of American democracy, making it a less appealing model for Russians and their neighbors. And he could send a message that Russia would not meekly submit to a domineering America.

 

I'll report back when I finish reading it, which I assume will be mid-2019 or so.

 

Edited by TobiasFunke
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52 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

One of the positives of this if it happens is it will completely destroy the Q conspiracy as Sessions is said to be a central figure and protected.  

Nothing will ever destroy the Q conspiracy.  Anything can be explained away.  That's why everything is phrased so ambiguously and why there's so much of it; so people can see whatever they need to see to make it work.

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1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:

The Times has published a thorough review of Russia's efforts to swing the 2016 election, including discussion of contacts with Trump associates.

This is the exploitable bug in American society:

Quote

Just as the Russians’ Guccifer character had reached out to American activists, journalists and WikiLeaks, the Russian online trolls understood that their real political power would come from mobilizing Americans. The Russian company’s formula was simple: tap into a simmering strain of opinion in the United States and pour on the fuel.

Consider the Texas protest. After the Russians put up the “Stop Islamization” Facebook post, several dozen like-minded Texans added their own incendiary comments. “Allah Sucks,” wrote one, adding a threat to kill any Muslim who tried to visit him. Another wrote of the Islamic center, “Need to Blow this place up.”

A dozen yelling white supremacists turned out for the protest, at least two of them with assault rifles and a third with a pistol. Others held Confederate flags and a “White Lives Matter” banner.

Houston police managed to keep them away from a much larger crowd of counterprotesters — some of whom had responded to a second Russian Facebook call. In a blatant attempt to create a confrontation, another Internet Research Agency page, this one called United Muslims of America, had asked people to rally at exactly the same time and place to “Save Islamic Knowledge.”

The event had no lasting consequences, though clearly it could have ended in tragedy. Still, it demonstrated that young Russians tapping on keyboards in 12-hour shifts could act as puppet masters for unsuspecting Americans many time zones away.

...

Darren Linvill, a professor at Clemson University who has studied three million Internet Research Agency tweets, said he was “impressed with both their level of absurdist creativity and keen understanding of American psychology.” They knew “exactly what buttons to press” and operated with “industrial efficiency,” he said.

Americans will believe anything if it confirms that their outgroup is dangerous and scary. And for most Americans right now, their most prominent outgroup is other Americans. That’s a convenient situation for people who want to foment internecine strife.

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2 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

Nothing will ever destroy the Q conspiracy.  Anything can be explained away.  That's why everything is phrased so ambiguously and why there's so much of it; so people can see whatever they need to see to make it work.

future proves past

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President Donald Trump’s former personal attorney, Michael Cohen, has participated over the last month in multiple interview sessions lasting for hours with investigators from the office of special counsel, Robert Mueller, sources tell ABC News.

The special counsel’s questioning of Cohen, one of the president’s closest associates over the past decade, has focused primarily on all aspects of Trump's dealings with Russia -- including financial and business dealings and the investigation into alleged collusion with Russia by the Trump campaign and its surrogates to influence the outcome of the 2016 presidential election, sources familiar with the matter tell ABC News.

Quote

The interviews with Cohen took place in Washington, D.C., and New York City. They were also attended in part by prosecutors from the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Southern District of New York.

Cohen’s participation in the meetings has been voluntary -- without any guarantee of leniency from prosecutors, according to several people familiar with the situation.

Quote

ABC News has also learned that Cohen is also cooperating with a separate probe by New York state authorities into the inner workings of the Trump family charity and the Trump Organization, where Cohen served as an executive vice president and special counsel to Trump for 10 years.

ABC News

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54 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

"...Cohen is also cooperating with a separate probe by New York state authorities into the inner workings of the Trump family charity and the Trump Organization, where Cohen served as an executive vice president and special counsel to Trump for 10 years."

It's really just a matter of time at this point. :popcorn:

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3 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

Nothing will ever destroy the Q conspiracy.  Anything can be explained away.  That's why everything is phrased so ambiguously and why there's so much of it; so people can see whatever they need to see to make it work.

Couldn’t agree more and have argued that same point in that thread.  But it would poke a big hole as Qanon has repeatedly said Q says to trust Sessions.  It’s been a corner stone point for him.  

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1 hour ago, mrip541 said:

"...Cohen is also cooperating with a separate probe by New York state authorities into the inner workings of the Trump family charity and the Trump Organization, where Cohen served as an executive vice president and special counsel to Trump for 10 years."

Not good news for the kids especially - assuming there is stuff to be found. Trump might still slide on this by virtue of being prez if the NYAG adheres to the current DOJ guidelines

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1 hour ago, msommer said:

Not good news for the kids especially - assuming there is stuff to be found. Trump might still slide on this by virtue of being prez if the NYAG adheres to the current DOJ guidelines

Again, the DOJ guidelines do not apply to someone not in a political race.

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Buried in a CNN article

Quote

But Sekulow is making a more nuanced point: That one part of the Trump-Holt interview drowned out another part of the interview. Sekulow is trying to point people to a quote that he believes is exculpatory.

Notably, Sekulow revealed to Cuomo that Trump's legal team has repeatedly addressed this matter with Robert Mueller's special counsel office. This is another sign that the Mueller is looking seriously at obstruction of justice issues.

"In our professional discussions with the office of special counsel, we have addressed that on multiple occasions appropriately," Sekulow said.

 

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How Putin's Oligarchs Got Inside the Trump Team

Quote

And in the Trumps, the oligarchs found plump targets. One Russian billionaire hosted Ivanka Trump and her husband, the President’s senior adviser, Jared Kushner, at a gala in Moscow in 2014. Another has links to a $500,000 payment to Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen in 2017. A third ran a propaganda operation that pumped pro-Trump content into the news feeds of millions of American voters. In the heat of the presidential race, a fourth tycoon arranged the meeting where a Russian lawyer offered dirt on Clinton to Trump’s closest aides. And then of course there was Deripaska, whose years of fishing for friends in Washington eventually got the chairman of a presidential campaign on the line.

 

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1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Again, the DOJ guidelines do not apply to someone not in a political race.

I think he means the DOJ guidelines of not indicting a sitting president.

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Some parts of a soon-to-be leaked interview from Mueller:

Quote

Cohen: The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.

Mueller: Don't... don't care?

Cohen: It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ### off and Trump Org colludes with another Russian, I don't see another ruble, so where's the motivation? And here's something else, Bob: I have eight different non-disclosure agreements right now.

Mueller: I beg your pardon? Eight.

Cohen: Eight NDAs

Quote

Mueller:  What... would you say... you do here?

Don Jr: Look I already told you, I deal with the ####### Russians so the hackers don't have to. I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people, can't you understand that? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!

Quote

Eric: Excuse me, I believe you have my stapler.

 

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21 minutes ago, Mario Kart said:

Some parts of a soon-to-be leaked interview from Mueller:

 

Donald J Trump:  hey Pence, check out channel 9, it’s the Breast Exam!!!

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How Putin's Oligarchs got inside the Trump team?  They were invited.

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