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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn

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So, in summary, complete exoneration... amirite?

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10 minutes ago, Mene said:

So, in summary, complete exoneration... amirite?

Or, in other words, lock them up.

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I can’t help but wonder....

What would Susan B. Anthony think?

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2 hours ago, Workhorse said:

From the report:

“The Cmte’s bipartisan Report found Paul Manafort, while he was Chmn ofthe Trump Campaign, was secretly communicating with a Russian intelligence officer with whom he discussed Campaign strategy and repeatedly shared internal Campaign polling data. This took place while the Russian intelligence operation to assist Trump was ongoing. Further, Manafort took steps to hide these communications & repeatedly lied to federal investigators, and his deputy on the Campaign destroyed evidence of communications w/the Russian intel officer. The Cmte obtained some info suggesting the Russian intel officer w/whom Manafort had a longstanding relationship may have been connected to the GRU's hack-and-leak operation targeting the 2016 US election.”

“This is what collusion looks like.”

 

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The Trump transition team was full of incompetents and/or colluders.   

”only the best people” got taken to the woodshed by Putin and his henchmen. 

What a gong show.   

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11 minutes ago, zoonation said:

The Trump transition team was full of incompetents and/or colluders.   

”only the best people” got taken to the woodshed by Putin and his henchmen. 

What a gong show.   

And the saga continues to this day.

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1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

 

@Opie, any thoughts on why Trump’s campaign manager was discussing campaign strategy and giving polling data to a Russian intelligence officer during the 2016 election?  

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Posted (edited)

Credit to the Senate for doing what needed to be done.

No wonder all of Trump's henchmen went to jail for lying instead of telling investigators the truth about what they'd been up to.

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
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NYT: 

G.O.P.-Led Senate Panel Details Ties Between 2016 Trump Campaign and Russia

A nearly 1,000-page report confirmed the special counsel’s findings at a moment when President Trump’s allies have sought to undermine that inquiry.

quote:

+++++++++++

WASHINGTON — A sprawling report released Tuesday by a Republican-controlled Senate panel that spent three years investigating Russia’s 2016 election interference laid out an extensive web of contacts between Trump campaign advisers and Russian government officials and other Russians, including some with ties to the country’s intelligence services.

The report by the Senate Intelligence Committee, totaling nearly 1,000 pages, provided a bipartisan Senate imprimatur for an extraordinary set of facts: The Russian government undertook an extensive campaign to try to sabotage the 2016 American election to help Mr. Trump become president, and some members of Mr. Trump’s circle of advisers were open to the help from an American adversary.

The report drew to a close one of the highest-profile congressional inquiries in recent memory, one that the president and his allies have long tried to discredit as part of a “witch hunt” designed to undermine the legitimacy of Mr. Trump’s stunning election nearly four years ago.

...

The Senate report for the first time identified Mr. Kilimnik as an intelligence officer. Mr. Mueller’s report had labeled him as someone with ties to Russian intelligence.

Democrats highlighted those ties in their own appendix to the report, noting that Mr. Manafort discussed campaign strategy and shared internal campaign polling data with Mr. Kilimnik, and later lied to federal investigators about his actions.

Democrats also laid out a potentially explosive detail: that investigators had uncovered information possibly tying Mr. Kilimnik to Russia’s major election interference operations conducted by the intelligence service known as the G.R.U.

“The committee obtained some information suggesting that the Russian intelligence officer, with whom Manafort had a longstanding relationship, may have been connected to the G.R.U.’s hack-and-leak operation targeting the 2016 U.S. election,” Democrats wrote. “This is what collusion looks like.”

...

But the Senate report said that the unusual nature of the Trump campaign — staffed by Mr. Trump’s longtime associates, friends and other businessmen with no government experience — “presented attractive targets for foreign influence, creating notable counterintelligence vulnerabilities.”

The Senate investigation found that two other people who met at Trump Tower in 2016 with senior members of the Trump campaign — including Mr. Manafort; Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law; and Donald Trump Jr., the president’s eldest son — had “significant connections to Russian government, including the Russian intelligence services.”

The report said that the connections between the Russian government and one of the individuals, Natalia V. Veselnitskaya, “were far more extensive and concerning than what had been publicly known.”

...

The report is the product of one of the few congressional investigations in recent memory that retained bipartisan support throughout. Lawmakers and committee aides interviewed more than 200 witnesses and reviewed hundreds of thousands of documents, including intelligence reports, internal F.B.I. notes and correspondence among members of the Trump campaign. The committee convened blockbuster hearings in 2017 and 2018, but much of its work took place in a secure office suite out of public view.

Portions of the report containing classified or other sensitive information were blacked out.

The Intelligence Committee released four previous volumes on its findings over the past year. The first focused on election security and Russia’s attempts to test American election infrastructure, and included policy recommendations to blunt future attacks. The second provided a detailed picture of Russia’s use of social media to sow political divisions in the United States.

Lawmakers then produced a study of the response by the Obama administration and Congress in the highly partisan run-up to the 2016 election. Most recently, they found that a 2017 intelligence community assessment, assigning blame to Russia and outlining its goals to undercut American democracy, had been untainted by politics and was fundamentally sound despite attacks on it by Mr. Trump’s allies.

The committee focused its work on intelligence and counterintelligence matters.

+++++++++++

 

 

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3 hours ago, -jb- said:
Quote

The Committee found that Manafort's presence on the Campaign at;td proximity to Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence services to exert influence over, and acquire confidential information on, the Trump Campaign. Taken as a whole, Manafort's highlevel access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services, particularly Kilimnik and associates of Oleg Deripaska, represented a grave counterintelligence threat.

Quote

Manafort hired and worked increasingly closely with a Russian national, Konstantin Kilimnik. Kilimnik is a Russian intelligence officer. Kilimnik became an integral part of Manafort's operations in Ukraine and Russia, serving as Manafort's primary liaison to Deripaska and eventually managing Manafort's office in Kyiv. Kilimnik and Manafort formed a close and lasting relationship that endured to the 2016 U.S. elections. and beyond.

Quote

The Committee found that Konstantin Kilimnik is a Russian intelligence officer. The Committee found reliable evidence suggesting that Kilimnik - like Boyarkin-.is part pf a cadre of individuals ostensibly operating outside of the Russian government but who nonetheless implement Kremlin-directed influence operations. These operations are funded by both the Russian government and by key Russian oligarchs, including Deripaska. The Committee bases this assessment on a body of information it obtained in the course of its investigation, including electronic communications; interviews, law enforcement information; and [REDACTED].

There is so much in this report it defies summarizing.

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Manafort has always been the key. If he were ever to talk, we’d know the whole story and much more. He shared campaign polling data with Kilimnik and he likely used the data to target the Russian interference efforts to specific areas of states that they believed they could steal. That includes Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania where it ultimately worked but also I believe in some states where it didn’t. Minnesota and New Hampshire are two states that Trump seems to keep coming back to thinking that he did or could have won, I wonder if there’s a reason why.

There are several unresolved issues surrounding Manafort like how did he end up in the campaign or why he recommended Pence as the VP. But what seems to be clear is that Manafort was acting as a Russian agent. Did he do it without the campaign’s knowledge or did they hire him because he was a Russian agent.

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Senate also made a bipartisan referral to the DOJ regarding five witnesses who they felt lied.  No prizes for guessing what happened to that referral.

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7 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Senate also made a bipartisan referral to the DOJ regarding five witnesses who they felt lied.  No prizes for guessing what happened to that referral.

DOJ complied?

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Just now, Gr00vus said:
8 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Senate also made a bipartisan referral to the DOJ regarding five witnesses who they felt lied.  No prizes for guessing what happened to that referral.

DOJ complied?

For those wanting the obvious answer laid out: the Senate Intel Committee made criminal referrals to the DOJ for Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, Steve Bannon, Erik Prince, and Sam Clovis in 2019. Barr's DOJ binned the referrals and no investigation was done.

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1 minute ago, JIslander said:

Where’s the DJT supporters here? 

Duh. Waiting for the Fox prime time lineup to tell them how this is really just another Democratic conspiracy. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, tommyGunZ said:

@Opie, any thoughts on why Trump’s campaign manager was discussing campaign strategy and giving polling data to a Russian intelligence officer during the 2016 election?  

Do not hold your breath for a direct answer. But a response is likely......One filling with lots of look over here at what the socialist are doing links and bolded words.  

Edited by dkp993
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21 minutes ago, -jb- said:

I think they’re in the obamagate thread 

Complaining about some lt Governor having an issue with a pardon and making things up about the mail?

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13 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Do not hold your breath for a direct answer. But a response is likely......One filling with lots of look over here at what the socialist are doing links and bolded words.  

Youtube...lots of youtube

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3 hours ago, zoonation said:

The Trump transition team was full of incompetents and/or colluders.   

”only the best people” got taken to the woodshed by Putin and his henchmen. 

What a gong show.   

All this,......AFTER........., being warned by the intelligence agency's that there were going to be attempts at contact from Russia and they should be reported immediately......

DJT & his crew wanted the contact, encouraged the election help, accepted that help, failed to alert the FBI and DOJ of contacts made and deliberately tried to hide that fact from investigators/investigations.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, JIslander said:

Where’s the DJT supporters here? 

Probably trying to come up with a "both sides" argument but all they can dig up is how one time Obama had Russian dressing on a salad. 

Edited by 2Squirrels1Nut
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2 hours ago, mcintyre1 said:

For those wanting the obvious answer laid out: the Senate Intel Committee made criminal referrals to the DOJ for Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, Steve Bannon, Erik Prince, and Sam Clovis in 2019. Barr's DOJ binned the referrals and no investigation was done.

But no Trump family members have been indicted, and one guy from the FBI did, so the Russia thing was obviously a hoax.  Scoreboard!

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2 hours ago, Herb said:

Duh. Waiting for the Fox prime time lineup to tell them how this is really just another Democratic conspiracy. 

Waiting for the Fox prime time lineup OANN to tell them how this is really just another Democratic conspiracy

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3 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

DOJ complied?

-10 points to Gryffindor, do not pass go or collect $200, and may god have mercy on your soul.

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The Joint Defense Agreement included:

Donald Trump

Donald Trump Jr.

The Trump Organization 

Jared Kushner

IvankaTrump

Paul Manafort

The Trump Campaign 

Keith Schiller 

Hope Hicks

Michael Flynn

Felix Sater

“However, the committee was provided with no competent evidence to substantiate the JDA’s existence.”

 

 

 

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Kilimnik was a state department operative.  He worked at (iirc) the IRI, a US 'pro-democracy' NGO.  What is the evidence for their claim that he worked for Russian intelligence?  

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Kilimnik was a state department operative.  He worked at (iirc) the IRI, a US 'pro-democracy' NGO.  What is the evidence for their claim that he worked for Russian intelligence?  

To your point, the report states that evidence is limited (no specifics).  I realize that I am using my jump-to-conclusions mat here, but why destroy all of the communication evidence between Kilimnik and Manafort?  
 

ETA Kilimnik was not an operative or source, just a contact 

Edited by -jb-

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17 minutes ago, -jb- said:

To your point, the report states that evidence is limited (no specifics).  I realize that I am using my jump-to-conclusions mat here, but why destroy all of the communication evidence between Kilimnik and Manafort?  
 

ETA Kilimnik was not an operative or source, just a contact 

The IRI is funded by USAID, a US govt outfit.  Their work generally includes softpower roles in foreign countries to advance the US' special interests.  If that doesn't make someone an operative for the state dept., even if a little indirectly, I don't know what does.  

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2 hours ago, -jb- said:

I’m not seeing any of this on MSM

I saw CBS evening news had a big story and MSNBC discussed as well.

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27 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

The IRI is funded by USAID, a US govt outfit.  Their work generally includes softpower roles in foreign countries to advance the US' special interests.  If that doesn't make someone an operative for the state dept., even if a little indirectly, I don't know what does.  

Fair enough. You’re way ahead of me on this stuff. Just reading up on him and read he was not. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/us/politics/konstantin-kilimnik-russia.amp.html

https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2019/06/john-solomon-gets-it-wrong-on-kilimnik-by-larry-c-johnson.html

 

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It's certainly not inconceivable that Trump was being dishonest in his "failure of recollection" about asking Stone to reach out to Wikileaks.  It's what he does every day all the time.  But he shouldn't have been.  The act itself would not have been a crime, and it really wouldn't have (or shouldn't have) been a big deal.

I really don't have the time to read the 900-page report.  I'll try to sort through it in the coming days.  At first glance, it appears they confirmed John Solomon's reporting about Waldman reaching out to Warner about a potential deal for Assange regarding the Vault7 documents. 

The timing almost seems like manufacturing consent for people to turn their backs on Assange if the extradition trial goes the way I think it will.  It's an abhorrent attack on freedom of press that the Trump DOJ is engaged in, and they're about to have the fullthroated support of his pretend opposition.  I think Biden wants to prosecute him for publishing our war crimes too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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13 minutes ago, -jb- said:

Sorry, wasn't trying to dunk on you.  A lot of people would probably disagree that that constitutes serving as an 'operative' for the State Dept.  But the public has definitely been mislead about his affiliations with the US Govt.  

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6 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Sorry, wasn't trying to dunk on you.  A lot of people would probably disagree that that constitutes serving as an 'operative' for the State Dept.  But the public has definitely been mislead about his affiliations with the US Govt.  

Haha, didn’t feel dunked on my man. I respect the knowledge you have on this stuff. I’m going to keep reading but my initial take on the guy is he’s probably driven by id more than anything. 

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Can one of the lawyers explain a Joint Defense Agreement in simpler terms?

Can they just keep adding names and pleading the 5th?

 

 

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49 minutes ago, dozer said:

Can one of the lawyers explain a Joint Defense Agreement in simpler terms?

Can they just keep adding names and pleading the 5th?

 

 

Not a lawyer but I think you can. But all the parties need to know about it and sign off on it which seems to be the problem here.

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2 hours ago, dozer said:

Can one of the lawyers explain a Joint Defense Agreement in simpler terms?

Can they just keep adding names and pleading the 5th?

 

 

 

I’ll take a shot though @Woz is the right guy to cover this from a crim perspective I think, where I’m sure there are differences.  I deal with them in the civil litigation perspective.  If the parties have joint interest in defending the same or a related claim — as may be the case here — they can enter into a joint defense agreement which can protect those communications from discovery.  The law on the extent and enforceability of these varies state to state, but I imagine in the crim context you don’t need a written agreement.  

I haven’t read anything above, and I assume Trump is lying or stealing or hiding something improperly.  Not sure I’m allowed to allege that in here, but I don’t plan to stay — I was called in to answer a question, did so pro bono, and will find my way out.  Good luck all with whatever it is you hope will happen in November. 

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@aaronjmate

We've really simplified the domestic propaganda process. If you're an intel official/neocon/Democratic leader/pundit, just follow this simple script:

[insert undesirable outcome] = helps Putin.

See also: Bernie winning; cutting Pentagon budget; withdrawing US troops; etc.

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1 hour ago, ren hoek said:

@aaronjmate

We've really simplified the domestic propaganda process. If you're an intel official/neocon/Democratic leader/pundit, just follow this simple script:

[insert undesirable outcome] = helps Putin.

See also: Bernie winning; cutting Pentagon budget; withdrawing US troops; etc.

Still think it's hoax and a load of BS after the release of the bipartisan Senate Intel Committee report?

I guess all those guys are in on the gaslighting of the rest of the world...

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30 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

Still think it's hoax and a load of BS after the release of the bipartisan Senate Intel Committee report?

I guess all those guys are in on the gaslighting of the rest of the world...

Yes

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Quote

https://mondoweiss.net/2020/08/russiagate-and-american-narcissism/

I don’t know what the truth is on Russiagate. However, even if it is true in exactly the way the New York Times says (reporting on revelations in the bipartisan Senate report this week), it seems relatively trivial and simply not as important as many people say it is.  Even skeptics, it seems to me, rate Russiagate too highly by acknowledging that it would be a huge story if true. This judgment hinges on an unconscious American self-centeredness that is almost impossible to escape.

1. Americans lie to each other far more than the Russians lie to us.  Stop blaming the Russians for our pathologies.  

2.  If we want to talk about foreign influence, then be serious.   Israel and the Saudis do it far more and with more consequences both for our politics and for the lives of innocent people overseas.  Though even here the blame for our actions ultimately falls on our elites and not foreign countries.  

3.  What we do to others, even including Russia, is far worse than what they supposedly did to us. Time Magazine openly bragged about our interference in Russian elections in 1996.  It was on the cover.  Russians suffered a catastrophic economic collapse under the people we supported.  

4.  Russiagate was used to gloss over what the emails sent to Wikileaks actually revealed: the inner workings of the Democrats. For instance, this site has covered the ways that Benjamin Netanyahu and major donor Haim Saban were shown to have coordinated candidate Hillary Clinton’s stance on the BDS campaign targeting Israel (“attack, attack, attack,” Netanyahu said).  To the extent that Russiagate might have mattered, it would be because the emails might have made enough Sanders supporters mad enough to refuse to vote for Clinton. 

But rather than focus on that, Russiagate gives an excuse to focus on how it was allegedly revealed. So people talk in nebulous terms about Russia interfering in our democracy without going into the details of what was exposed. That defused the wikileaks revelations and turned them into a weapon to attack both Russia and Trump. Most journalists and political junkies behave like sheep, or to mix metaphors, tribalistic sheep, so this insultingly obvious ploy worked like a charm.  

5.  Russiagate is an excuse to ramp up a new Cold War.  That’s why so many national security types love it. Antiwar types should see this as an internecine fight between different factions of warmongers. A few lefties naively thought that Russiagate could be used to educate people about how corruption works in the US. Instead, as one would expect, it became a jingoistic and xenophobic way to blame our country’s pathetic political culture on evil foreigners. McCarthyism 2.0. The more demented liberals online blame every criticism of the Democrats on Putin.

6.  Russiagate gives liberals a reason to ignore the harm Trump does to civilians in countries whose governments are allied to Russia.  So we impose brutal sanctions on Venezuela, Iran, and Syria. This hurts civilians.  It is supposed to hurt civilians.  The Democrats support this and then turn around and say that Trump is Putin’s puppet, even as Trump wages economic war on Russian allies with their help and breaks arms control treaties with Iran and Russia, going against Putin’s wishes.  Trump also opposes the gas pipeline from Russia to Germany. 

People who focus on Russiagate and ignore this are American narcissists.  What we do to hurt others doesn’t matter.  What is done to us is all that matters.  

 

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Arguing it's bad but we do it too is pretty different from arguing they aren't doing it.  Progress I guess?

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