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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Derrius Guice, Redskins

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3 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Fair enough but I have found this writer to be pretty rock solid for years now. Without a strong QB in place I certainly think it's possible they would look at a player like Guice in round 2 if that option was avialable. I don't think having Drake as your main RB means RB is not a need.

I think it means you don't have a 1st or 2nd round need at RB.  Drake's talent is clear to see.  The question that still remains is if he can hold up as a 16 game starter.  When you have much bigger holes at OL, TE, and all across the Defense, not to mention Tannehill at QB, I think you can say RB isn't a need (except for depth) with Drake as your RB

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19 minutes ago, Bazinga! said:

I think it means you don't have a 1st or 2nd round need at RB.  Drake's talent is clear to see.  The question that still remains is if he can hold up as a 16 game starter.  When you have much bigger holes at OL, TE, and all across the Defense, not to mention Tannehill at QB, I think you can say RB isn't a need (except for depth) with Drake as your RB

Don't see Drake in the light you do and get a feeling they don't either but don't want to go around and around on this.  I think their interest in Guice is legit, you don't, I'm moving on.

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LSU RB Derrius Guice arrived at the NFL Combine at 5-feet-10 1/2 and 224 pounds.

That is lead back size for Derrius Guice who uses that size to punish defenders on contact and create extra yards. Guice boasts 9-inch hands, 30 3/4 inch arms and a 72 3/4-inch wingspan. Expect Guice to complete a full workout in Indy after dealing with a deep thigh bruise this season.

Source: Charles Robinson on Twitter 

Feb 28 - 10:49 AM

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4 hours ago, Faust said:

LSU RB Derrius Guice arrived at the NFL Combine at 5-feet-10 1/2 and 224 pounds.

That is lead back size for Derrius Guice who uses that size to punish defenders on contact and create extra yards. Guice boasts 9-inch hands, 30 3/4 inch arms and a 72 3/4-inch wingspan. Expect Guice to complete a full workout in Indy after dealing with a deep thigh bruise this season.

Source: Charles Robinson on Twitter 

Feb 28 - 10:49 AM

Jeff-LJ-Lloyd‏ @Jeff_LJ_Lloyd 5h5 hours ago

Per @Jimetrics only 2 RBs with arm length less then 31” have had over 2000 yards in their careers. IE Guice sub 31 inch arms

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7 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Jeff-LJ-Lloyd‏ @Jeff_LJ_Lloyd 5h5 hours ago

Per @Jimetrics only 2 RBs with arm length less then 31” have had over 2000 yards in their careers. IE Guice sub 31 inch arms

That sounds made up.

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42 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Jeff-LJ-Lloyd‏ @Jeff_LJ_Lloyd 5h5 hours ago

Per @Jimetrics only 2 RBs with arm length less then 31” have had over 2000 yards in their careers. IE Guice sub 31 inch arms

Seem false.

NFL Combine Results lists Gio Bernard (2900 career regular season rushing yards) with 28" arms, Maurice Jones-Drew (8167 rushing yards) with 28 1/8 " arms, and Darren Sproles (3366 rushing yards) with 28 1/4 " arms. Already more than 2 RBs and I'm still in the low 28s.

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9 minutes ago, ZWK said:

Seem false.

NFL Combine Results lists Gio Bernard (2900 career regular season rushing yards) with 28" arms, Maurice Jones-Drew (8167 rushing yards) with 28 1/8 " arms, and Darren Sproles (3366 rushing yards) with 28 1/4 " arms. Already more than 2 RBs and I'm still in the low 28s.

Not sure where he came up with that one but he's getting called out on it and the list is lengthy to dispute his numbers.

I only caught a retweet without the discussion.

LINK to the tweet replies:

https://twitter.com/Jeff_LJ_Lloyd/status/968872045214883840

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1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

That sounds made up.

And completely meaningless.

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See guys, if your arms are too short, you can’t stiff arm effectively, nor can you properly protect the football, nor can you balance yourself well which makes your cuts off balance. And don’t even get me started on how shorter arms alters speed, agility and vision. THINK, guys. Jeez. 

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6 minutes ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

See guys, if your arms are too short, you can’t stiff arm effectively, nor can you properly protect the football, nor can you balance yourself well which makes your cuts off balance. And don’t even get me started on how shorter arms alters speed, agility and vision. THINK, guys. Jeez. 

You know what they say about men with short arms ;)

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Pretty much since the 1980s I have heard that 5' 10" and 220 lbs are the ideal metrics for a NFL RB. Its fine if they are a bit more or less than this, but that would be the median of the ideal size for the position.

@ZWK according to your research would you agree with 5' 10" 220 lbs being the ideal median range size for a RB? Or would that be something else?

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2 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

Pretty much since the 1980s I have heard that 5' 10" and 220 lbs are the ideal metrics for a NFL RB. Its fine if they are a bit more or less than this, but that would be the median of the ideal size for the position.

@ZWK according to your research would you agree with 5' 10" 220 lbs being the ideal median range size for a RB? Or would that be something else?

I don't think that there is one ideal size. The way that I've set things up, heavier is always better (as long as you do just as well in the drills - the bad thing about adding weight is that it slows you down, and that will show up in the workouts on Friday). But adding more weight helps less and less; going from 200 to 210 matters a lot, and going from 215 to 225 doesn't matter nearly as much. So Barkley, Freeman, Chubb, Guice, and Penny all have really good size. My guess is that arm length is basically irrelevant for RBs, although I haven't looked into that.

Edited by ZWK

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10 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Jeff-LJ-Lloyd‏ @Jeff_LJ_Lloyd 5h5 hours ago

Per @Jimetrics only 2 RBs with arm length less then 31” have had over 2000 yards in their careers. IE Guice sub 31 inch arms

Reminds me of a topic a few years back about doing finger stretches to improve hand size.

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6 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Well at least we know if Guice busts we will have a nice short arms meme for the next few years.

Scout "His arms are too short"

Head Coach "That's what she said"

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2 hours ago, fruity pebbles said:

15 reps on the bench press. Thought he'd be a lot stronger than that.

chubb and barkley pumped out 29...

Guice should be embarassed.... Reps w shorter arms, should be easier.

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24 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

chubb and barkley pumped out 29...

Guice should be embarassed.... Reps w shorter arms, should be easier.

Well this is a disappointment. 

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25 minutes ago, menobrown said:

There is like no correlation between bench press and RB performance. Why they even do it is a bigger question.

Is this a fact? Genuinely curious. 

Definitely strength concerns for me. I kno he can run, but upper body strength still important

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8 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

Is this a fact? Genuinely curious. 

Definitely strength concerns for me. I kno he can run, but upper body strength still important

Bench press isn't purely about strength. There is technique involved as well. RB "strength" has much more to do with leg drive, balance and leverage. There have been other "disappointing" bench press performances at the combine that showed to be meaningless.

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I'm not saying it matters to the point Id consider not drafting someone, but if a RB crop is all within a same tier, things like this would make a slight difference for me, imo.

I like knowing my bellcow is a powerhouse in all aspects.

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10 hours ago, menobrown said:

There is like no correlation between bench press and RB performance. Why they even do it is a bigger question.

I guess because everyone has to do it. I would assume it IS a useful metric for OL/DL. 

It's kind of a fun one since it's so easy to compare yourself to NFL players. I can do more reps than CMC! CMC only did 10. Kind of shocking Abdullah did 24. Perine did 30. Jordan Howard did 16. Tomlinson did 18. 

All in all, 15 does not phase me. I would draft Guice 1.02 (if I had it) even if he didn't go to the combine at all.

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4 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

please don't panic today

 

LeSean McCoy didn't break 10 on the press IIRC and he had one of the worst combines ever.

 

Over-reacting to the combine is a right of passage around here. Over-reacting to the bench press for a RB is perhaps the nadir though,

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1 hour ago, FF Ninja said:

I guess because everyone has to do it. I would assume it IS a useful metric for OL/DL. 

It's kind of a fun one since it's so easy to compare yourself to NFL players. I can do more reps than CMC! CMC only did 10. Kind of shocking Abdullah did 24. Perine did 30. Jordan Howard did 16. Tomlinson did 18. 

All in all, 15 does not phase me. I would draft Guice 1.02 (if I had it) even if he didn't go to the combine at all.

Well the center from Ohio State tore a pectoral muscle doing it and will now probably lose some serious money if his draft stock falls since he'll miss the entire offseason and perhaps maybe some regular season. Maybe the RBs should think twice about skipping it.

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Well the center from Ohio State tore a pectoral muscle doing it and will now probably lose some serious money if his draft stock falls since he'll miss the entire offseason and perhaps maybe some regular season. Maybe the RBs should think twice about skipping it.

Wow. That's got to be a fluke, though. I mean, 225 is almost warm up weight for offensive linemen. If this was a serious risk then I'm sure more people would be skipping it, but this is the first time I've heard of that happening (doesn't mean it really is the first time, though). 

But yeah, a fair amount of RBs do skip it. I was just going through names on playerprofiler and several big names didn't have a bench press number. Going off memory, I think Fournette and Zeke were two of them.

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4 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

But yeah, a fair amount of RBs do skip it.

Ronald Jones is waiting to do the bench press at his pro day. If I were an NFL scout I'd weigh the bar and make sure the plates actually weighed 45.

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2 hours ago, FF Ninja said:

I guess because everyone has to do it. I would assume it IS a useful metric for OL/DL. 

 

From the stuff I've read and heard over the years they keep the bench for two reasons.

Historical reference is one and this is so for several combine events.  Easier to know what you are comparing.

Second one is many say the bench is most exciting part of the combine for players and those in attendance. 

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1 hour ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

 

 

LeSean McCoy didn't break 10 on the press IIRC and he had one of the worst combines ever.

 

He is one of the reasons I started paying more attention to the 3 cone and 10 yard sprint for RB's a few years ago, he was strong in those areas and its reflective in his play.

 

Last year looking at top 4 producing rookie RB's and you had Kamara with 15 reps, Hunt with 18, Fournette I don't think did it and CMC did 10. I'd have pointed this out yesterday but just figured people would say that Guice is bigger with shorter arms so it's more of a concern. For me it literally means close to nothing he put up a 15 or Barkley put up 29.

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29 minutes ago, menobrown said:

From the stuff I've read and heard over the years they keep the bench for two reasons.

Historical reference is one and this is so for several combine events.  Easier to know what you are comparing.

Second one is many say the bench is most exciting part of the combine for players and those in attendance. 

To quote Kenny Powers:

 

I play real sports, I'm not trying to be the best at exercising

 

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2 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

please don't panic today

 

LeSean McCoy didn't break 10 on the press IIRC and he had one of the worst combines ever.

 

This says 17: https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/lesean-mccoy/

16 minutes ago, Hu-Tang Clan said:

Jerick McKinnon put up 32 reps at his combine.

f***ing A... I forgot about that. And he only weighs 209 lbs. https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/jerick-mckinnon/

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3 hours ago, Hu-Tang Clan said:

Jerick McKinnon put up 32 reps at his combine.

:hijack: McKinnon is one of the best athletes in the NFL. He’s done something that very few have done, successfully covert from college QB to NFL RB. You may look at his overall production as subpar but his talent level is truly off the charts even if he never shoulders a full compliment in his career. :/hijack:

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3 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

:hijack: McKinnon is one of the best athletes in the NFL. He’s done something that very few have done, successfully covert from college QB to NFL RB. You may look at his overall production as subpar but his talent level is truly off the charts even if he never shoulders a full compliment in his career. :/hijack:

what if he played RB in college instead of qb??? 

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6 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

what if he played RB in college instead of qb??? 

I think his 3 year transition that had its share of rough patches wouldn’t have happened. If he produced like he did in year one as he did last year it would be near impossible for you to trade for him in dynasty going into next year, given his athletic measurables. If a team like the 49ers gets ahold of him, I think he has the potential to be a top 5 redraft back in ‘18... anyway, back to Guice.

Edited by Bojang0301

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12 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

:hijack: McKinnon is one of the best athletes in the NFL. He’s done something that very few have done, successfully covert from college QB to NFL RB. You may look at his overall production as subpar but his talent level is truly off the charts even if he never shoulders a full compliment in his career. :/hijack:

Wasn't really a QB.  He was a wildcat RB who threw every once in a while.  

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17 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

Is this a fact? Genuinely curious. 

Definitely strength concerns for me. I kno he can run, but upper body strength still important

According to this research which I find to be pretty compelling the bench press is the least predictive of the combine metrics for the RB position.

The only metrics that had some correlation were weigh, 40 time and 3 cone. Thats it.

 

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