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Is alcohol addiction a disease? My wife is an alcoholic. (1 Viewer)

timschochet

timschochet

Footballguy
OK full disclosure here: my wife is an alcoholic. The reason that I took off from here for a period of time is that I discovered that fact (though I had suspected it for a long time) over the Christmas holidays. Without going into detail, my wife went into rehab, and is now in the middle of a month long recovery program at this hospital- that will be followed by a 90 day 90 AA meeting situation. She is in good spirits and doing well, I think (and hope.)

Today was the first day of "family week" at my wife's recovery, in which I am spending 3-4 hours with her every day, writing her a letter, learning about how to deal with this, etc. It's very informative and the people in charge are terrific. But this morning they had us watch a film which made the argument that alcoholism was a disease. The film was compelling, but left me with more questions than answers. And I still don't know how I feel about this, so I would like to lay the question out for you guys: is addiction a disease in the same way cancer or diabetes a disease? Or does the person (in this case my wife) bear a level of responsibility for her behavior?

 
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Well she had to drink the alcohol so she has some responsibility.  I think some people are more prone to addiction than others.  With that said who cares what it is labeled?  In the end as long as she gets help and is able to stay sober who cares if it is a disease or addiction or both.   Good Luck.  

 
Good luck Tim.  Just because something is a disease doesn't mean a person can't shoulder some responsibility.  Type 2 diabetes and lung cancer are both diseases.

Wishing the best for your whole family.  I will refrain from any jokes right now but there are some real softballs just hanging out there.

 
I think it is a disease.  Not sure if that helps with anything though.  The alcoholic has some responsibility for their actions and decisions that they have made. 

I rarely agree with anything that you say Tim but I truly wish you and your family the best during this tough time. 

 
You're going to have to pretend it is because, for someone with your proclivity for beating the logic to death, questioning that is going to put you at such odds w practitioners that it will be counterproductive to your wife's treatment and progress. The answer is somewhere between yes and no and it simply won't behoove you to learn more @ this time. GL & best wishes.

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
Well she had to drink the alcohol so she has some responsibility.  I think some people are more prone to addiction than others.  With that said who cares what it is labeled?  In the end as long as she gets help and is able to stay sober who cares if it is a disease or addiction or both.   Good Luck.  
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I actually care because it changes the way I think about this whole thing. Part of me is very pissed off at my wife, and the counselor tells me that's natural and be sure to put down my feelings in the letter. Yet if it's a disease, then I have no cause to be pissed off, if that makes any sense.

 
wikkidpissah said:
You're going to have to pretend it is because, for someone with your proclivity for beating the logic to death, questioning that is going to put you at such odds w practitioners that it will be counterproductive to your wife's treatment and progress. The answer is somewhere between yes and no and it simply won't behoove you to learn more @ this time. GL & best wishes.
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:P Just so you know, I'm not as apt to do that in real life as I am here.

 
Tim, sorry to hear about your wife and best of luck with her recovery.

Regading the disease model of addiction -- I think we get too caught up in labels. Typically it's a progressive condition and recovery rates are much better with treatment than without, so in those respects it's like a disease. A lot of ignorant people think "disease" is a cop-out used to absolve addicts of accountability and it's simply a moral failing or a question of willpower. You don't have time for such crap. Learn as much as you can about it so you can be the best possible support system for your wife, then at some point you can formulate an opinion if it qualifies as a disease or not (if that matters).

 
wikkidpissah said:
You're going to have to pretend it is because, for someone with your proclivity for beating the logic to death, questioning that is going to put you at such odds w practitioners that it will be counterproductive to your wife's treatment and progress. The answer is somewhere between yes and no and it simply won't behoove you to learn more @ this time. GL & best wishes.
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Perfect response.

I hope everything works out, Tim. 

 
timschochet said:
OK full disclosure here: my wife is an alcoholic. The reason that I took off from here for a period of time is that I discovered that fact (though I had suspected it for a long time) over the Christmas holidays. Without going into detail, my wife went into rehab, and is now in the middle of a month long recovery program at this hospital- that will be followed by a 90 day 90 AA meeting situation. She is in good spirits and doing well, I think (and hope.)

Today was the first day of "family week" at my wife's recovery, in which I am spending 3-4 hours with her every day, writing her a letter, learning about how to deal with this, etc. It's very informative and the people in charge are terrific. But this morning they had us watch a film which made the argument that alcoholism was a disease. The film was compelling, but left me with more questions than answers. And I still don't know how I feel about this, so I would like to lay the question out for you guys: is addiction a disease in the same way cancer or diabetes a disease? Or does the person (in this case my wife) bear a level of responsibility for her behavior?
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G'luck, one of my best friends is going through a battle with addiction with his wife, but a different kind.  It definitely puts a lot of strain on the family, mentally and financially.  I wish you and your family/wife the best.

I think it is more of a psychological problem, than a disease.  By stating it is a disease, you're saying it can not be solved by will alone.  It is a serious problem, and for most people, requires a lot of help and support. 

 
Tim, I'm sorry for what you're going through.  There's no real good answer.  

I think that it could be a disease and if that is what they are telling you, you need to be supportive of that.  All you can do now is move forward.  I think that a person can get to the point where they do feel like they've lost control and the "disease" takes over.

Was there a lot of personal responsibility along the way?  From what I've seen, the answer is probably yes, but really what good does it do you to worry about that now?  

The good news is that she's getting help and your support will be invaluable.

I know you aren't a religious person, so just know my thoughts are with you, I've always considered you an extremely reasonable guy and I'm sure this isn't easy.

 
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I do think it is a disease, but that does not release your wife from responsibility either.  There are a number of diseases that are caused by voluntary behavior.  

 
Good luck to you add your wife Tim.

As far your question - I'm ust  spouting my uneducated opinion but to me it closer to an addiction than a disease. Agree with others that it probably doesn't and shouldn't matter.  As for it affecting how you feel - you have a right to be upset and if it were me I would just assume it was that person's "fault" and then move on with life.  We all make mistakes - if you still love your wife and plan to help her then don't let that part eat you up - forgive her and move on.  The hardest part of this for you may be that you have to remove all alcohol from your Jon - or at least that would be tough for most of us.  

 
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Thanks for the kind words, everyone.

I'm really interested in the question, though, not simply because of my wife's situation (and how I feel about it emotionally) but because if alcoholism is a disease then it creates all sorts of free will dilemmas. When does choice end and "I couldn't help it!" start?

 
Good luck to your family.

As far as the question, there are genetic precursors and factors in one's upbringing that highly increase the chances of someone becoming an alcoholic.  Additionally, alcohol is frequently used as self-medication for those who may be depressed, have pain, or a variety of other factors that may be disease oriented.

As mentioned already, do not place blame.  There's a lot of #### that goes on with people, whether through genetics, upbringing, their brain, and physically that can lead to this.  Some eat, some drink, some smoke pot, some do hardcore drugs, some gamble for the relief.  Just be there for her and love her.  Do not judge.

 
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Tim, sorry to hear you are going through this. I have to second what Wikkid said... just accept it. Your purpose in all of this is not to gain a greater understanding of the psychology/physiology of addiction but to be there for your wife. Just be loyal. Love unconditionally. You may have to pretend a bit in order to help her get over some hurdles. 

Maybe, many years after sobriety, she will be able to tell you whether or not it's a disease... I suspect addiction may impact people differently. If ever there was a time to just accept things and not question them, it's now.

 
I know in the past youb said your wife was severely overweight and had gastric bypass. 

As it turns out one of the strange side effects is alcoholism. Seems the smaller stomach size can somehow accentuate the effects and make it more addictive. 

 
AAABatteries said:
Good luck to you add your wife Tim.

As far your question - is just be spouting my uneducated opinion but to me it closer to an addiction than a disease. Agree with others that it probably doesn't and shouldn't matter.  As for it affecting how you feel - you have a right to be upset and if it were me I would just assume it was that person's "fault" and then move on with life.  We all make mistakes - if you still love your wife and plan to help her then don't let that part eat you up - forgive her and move on.  The hardest part of this for you may be that you have to remove all alcohol from your Jon - or at least that would be tough for most of us.  
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I think you meant to say life or home, right?

It's certainly not the hardest part, but yeah I like a drink or two from time to time. I especially like wine. But it's not a big deal to give that up.

The hardest part for me will be learning to trust my wife again. I love her dearly, but she lied to me. How long will I be suspicious of her once she comes home? That's what I'm trying to learn how to deal with.

 
To me a disease has to have a component of "luck" to it - meaning, I was unlucky on some level.  I don't see how being an alcoholic qualifies.  Does the body act like it has a disease?  Sure, it's possible but I can 100% guarantee you that she would not be an alcoholic if she never had a drink - most or maybe all disease can't say something similar.

 
timschochet said:
Thanks for the kind words, everyone.

I'm really interested in the question, though, not simply because of my wife's situation (and how I feel about it emotionally) but because if alcoholism is a disease then it creates all sorts of free will dilemmas. When does choice end and "I couldn't help it!" start?
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Alcoholics are making a choice every sip. That doesn't mean it isn't a disease.

 
I am the son of an alcoholic and have addicts as family members. To me the answers to your original questions are "kind of" and "yes."  Is it a disease like those others?  I say "kind of" because it seems there is some science out there that says genetics could play a role in someone become addicted, and there is certainly a physiological/psychological response that true addicts have to their stimulus of choice that others don't seem to experience.  Is it some cancer, congential, hereditary or other "disease" that someone has no part in their progress with?  Not exactly.  That's why I say "yes" to if people bear some responsibility.  People currently of adult age know that alcoholism exists.  People that are adults choose to drink knowing the consequences (hangovers, etc) and the dangers (risk of addiction, impaired decision making/coordination).  So even if they are predisposed to a bad outcome, they are making the choice that leads to it.  Further, now that your wife is getting treatment, how she progresses with her "disease" is largely up to her.  

So can you be angry?  Sure.  Is it productive to remain angry for an extended period of time and not let her show you that she is a new person who can fight and move past this?  Probably not.  Like others have said, I wouldn't get hung up on labeling and things like that, just deal with the reality of the past and what you all need to appropriately move forward.  If you want to choose one side of your questions, you'll be able to find enough on the internet to support either answer.  But those answers ultimately won't be what allows you and your family to put it all back together and find a normal life as a unit again.  I say this as an adult who has seen relationships and lives torn apart by this stuff, but have become pretty understanding of it as a result.  

 
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timschochet said:
I actually care because it changes the way I think about this whole thing. Part of me is very pissed off at my wife, and the counselor tells me that's natural and be sure to put down my feelings in the letter. Yet if it's a disease, then I have no cause to be pissed off, if that makes any sense.
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Good luck with this.   

Having been through this with my mom growing up, I find your post here a little odd.  Don't make this about you. It doesn't really matter, just focus on supporting her in her efforts to recover.

 
timschochet said:
Thanks for the kind words, everyone.

I'm really interested in the question, though, not simply because of my wife's situation (and how I feel about it emotionally) but because if alcoholism is a disease then it creates all sorts of free will dilemmas. When does choice end and "I couldn't help it!" start?
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I don't personally think that the person ever loses ALL responsibility for their drinking.  It just becomes progressively harder to stop. 

 
timschochet said:
OK full disclosure here: my wife is an alcoholic. The reason that I took off from here for a period of time is that I discovered that fact (though I had suspected it for a long time) over the Christmas holidays. Without going into detail, my wife went into rehab, and is now in the middle of a month long recovery program at this hospital- that will be followed by a 90 day 90 AA meeting situation. She is in good spirits and doing well, I think (and hope.)

Today was the first day of "family week" at my wife's recovery, in which I am spending 3-4 hours with her every day, writing her a letter, learning about how to deal with this, etc. It's very informative and the people in charge are terrific. But this morning they had us watch a film which made the argument that alcoholism was a disease. The film was compelling, but left me with more questions than answers. And I still don't know how I feel about this, so I would like to lay the question out for you guys: is addiction a disease in the same way cancer or diabetes a disease? Or does the person (in this case my wife) bear a level of responsibility for her behavior?
Click to expand...
seems to be the standard model for the treatment of the problem in America.   This is the model that was developed years ago by the founders of AA  to help in the treatment.   I think they thought it would remove blame/guilt issues with people and make a stronger argument to choose total abstinence.    

Problem is Alcoholism isn't a disease anymore than peanut butter allergy is.    Its a result, its a symptom.    Are some people more predisposed to it because of genetics?  absolutely.    Are some people more prone to it because of their personalities?   Absolutely.     But its not really a disease.    

 
No more or less than your addiction to FBG's is a disease. :P

I kid.

In reality, what wikkid and McGarnicle said.  Coping with our lot in life leads people in lots of different directions.  I get the pull to drugs and alcohol and can neither begrudge nor fully absolve anyone who succumbs to the temptation.  It is a disease of the mind, IMO and to fix it requires a re-wiring of sorts.  Some decisions along the way could have likely prevented it, but at an advanced stage, people need help to escape.

GL, buddy.  Hope she gets well soon and you can rebuild a solid life together.

 
timschochet said:
I think you meant to say life or home, right?

It's certainly not the hardest part, but yeah I like a drink or two from time to time. I especially like wine. But it's not a big deal to give that up.

The hardest part for me will be learning to trust my wife again. I love her dearly, but she lied to me. How long will I be suspicious of her once she comes home? That's what I'm trying to learn how to deal with.
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:lmao:  oops - yes, home.  I get your comments about trust and agree but it seemed like you had your suspicions already.  Is she sneaking around and drinking behind your back?

 
xulf said:
Good luck to your family.

As far as the question, there are genetic precursors and factors in one's upbringing that highly increase the chances of someone becoming an alcoholic.  Additionally, alcohol is frequently used as self-medication for those who may be depressed, have pain, or a variety of other factors that may be disease oriented.

As mentioned already, do not place blame.  There's a lot of #### that goes on with people, whether through genetics, upbringing, their brain, and physically that can lead to this.  Some eat, some drink, some smoke pot, some do hardcore drugs, some gamble for the relief.  Just be there for her and love her.  Do not judge.
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This seriously goes against my nature.

 
Listen, not trying to be an ###, whatsoever.

But did you never notice the scent of alcohol eminating from her? It's very difficult to hide. Wonder how she managed that

ps: gl.

 
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timschochet said:
Thanks for the kind words, everyone.

I'm really interested in the question, though, not simply because of my wife's situation (and how I feel about it emotionally) but because if alcoholism is a disease then it creates all sorts of free will dilemmas. When does choice end and "I couldn't help it!" start?
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I have an addictive nature myself, but thankfully not with alcohol or drugs.  I don't think choice and "I couldn't help it" are exclusive.  There is always a choice, but addiction is powerful.  Don't think that anyone is simply making excuses for her by calling it a disease.  She is seeking treatment, so do everything you can to support her.  Good luck, you're a good guy Tim.

 
timschochet said:
Thanks for the kind words, everyone.

I'm really interested in the question, though, not simply because of my wife's situation (and how I feel about it emotionally) but because if alcoholism is a disease then it creates all sorts of free will dilemmas. When does choice end and "I couldn't help it!" start?
Click to expand...
Free will creates all sorts of free will dilemmas. Going down this rabbit hole is pointless.

 
timschochet said:
Thanks for the kind words, everyone.

I'm really interested in the question, though, not simply because of my wife's situation (and how I feel about it emotionally) but because if alcoholism is a disease then it creates all sorts of free will dilemmas. When does choice end and "I couldn't help it!" start?
Click to expand...
how bout this halfway answer, then? you eat junk food, you more likely to get diabetes (an actual disease). you smoke, you choose to dig asbestos, you more likely to get cancer. the diseases are amoral, the putting oneself in harm's way is, in a sense, moral. physical addiction presents, plays out as a real disease. the way in is mostly moral, trickier than the the other moralities i offered and morality is more a part of the cure than with those other disease. play along, give as much of your best, true self as you can afford and dont try to outthink it. many verrrry substantial people have tried and failed on that front. it's a minus play.

 
Good luck, tim.  Sorry that you're dealing with this, but I hope things work out.  

If you don't mind me asking, how did you "find out" that your wife is an alcoholic?  I would have thought it would be pretty obvious.  No need to answer if you don't want to.  

 
Here is a more meta study of all studies dealing with this issue and covers some 10 or so studies on the topic:

https://asmbs.org/resources/alcohol-use-before-and-after-bariatric-surgery

Summary and recommendations

  1. There is conflicting data as to the lifetime and current prevalence of AUD in patients seeking weight loss surgery (Table 2). Most studies indicate that AUD affects a minority of bariatric surgery patients. Studies have shown that some individuals are at risk for AUD relapse or for developing new-onset AUD after weight loss surgery, especially after gastric bypass. Other studies have shown a decrease in high-risk drinking after surgery compared with baseline.
  2. Based on current studies, gastric bypass surgery is associated with:

    • Accelerated alcohol absorption (shorter time to reach maximum concentration)
    • Higher maximum alcohol concentration
    • Longer time to eliminate alcohol in both men and women
    • Increased risk for development of AUD
  3. The data are less clear regarding altered pharmacokinetics after sleeve gastrectomy and there is no evidence that alcohol absorption is affected by gastric banding. Given the recent increase in popularity of sleeve gastrectomy, more studies regarding the pharmacokinetic effects of sleeve gastrectomy on alcohol metabolism are needed.
  4. Patients undergoing bariatric surgery should be screened and educated regarding alcohol intake both before and after surgery. Active AUD is considered a contraindication by most programs and in published guidelines [26]. Adequate screening, assessment, and preoperative preparation may help decrease the risk of AUD in bariatric surgery patients [27]. A period of sustained abstinence with treatment is indicated before weight loss surgery. A history of AUD is not a contraindication to bariatric surgery. However, patients should be made aware that AUD can occur in the long term after bariatric surgery.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Listen, not trying to be an ###, whatsoever.

But did you never notice the scent of alcohol eminating from her? It's very difficult to hide. Wonder how she managed that

ps: gl.
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She mostly drank during the day, while I was at work and the kids were at school. She picked up the kids at 3:00- she CLAIMS now that she was sober by the time she picked them up but how do I know? And how does SHE know? That's a big part of the reason I'm pissed off about this. And also uncertain: since she's been in recovery I've effectively assumed the role of single dad, driving my daughters everywhere. My wife will be back in a couple of weeks, ready to resume her duties in this regard. But can I trust her?

 
I never liked to call it a disease...like cancer or mental illness.   It is an addiction like smoking, or heroin only it is alcohol related.

I had known a number of people who have had quite serious alcohol addictions.  One had to do with too much time and $$$ and the other with mounting family pressures and loss or employment. It can be unresolved childhood issues that alcohol masks.  Finding the cause truly helps because it runs the gamut.

My friend who owns a large IT firm and has more money than he knows what to do with had to have an intervention for his wife.  Started out with her getting pretty loaded every party we were at. Then she started everyday drinking  wine at lunch kept drinking until she blacked out..forgetting or not being able to drive to pick the kids up or attend any evening events because by 7pm she was wasted.  A number of times we were invited to watch a football game or attend a party at their home and she was smashed by the time the party started and deteriorated from there. Falling down drunk.   The thing is she was beautiful and such a nice person..just could not control her drinking,

Finally without her knowledge he had a team come in like on TV and he told her she leaves that day for treatment or he files for divorce and will take the kids away. She agreed to leave for 30 days and got cleaned up....it has been 5 years and I think she has relapsed 2-3 times around the holidays but never more than a day at a time.

It is a daily battle and I wish you and your family the best.

 
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timschochet said:
She mostly drank during the day, while I was at work and the kids were at school. She picked up the kids at 3:00- she CLAIMS now that she was sober by the time she picked them up but how do I know? And how does SHE know? That's a big part of the reason I'm pissed off about this. And also uncertain: since she's been in recovery I've effectively assumed the role of single dad, driving my daughters everywhere. My wife will be back in a couple of weeks, ready to resume her duties in this regard. But can I trust her?
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In the immortal words of Ronald Wilson Reagan: Trust, but verify

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Good luck, tim.  Sorry that you're dealing with this, but I hope things work out.  

If you don't mind me asking, how did you "find out" that your wife is an alcoholic?  I would have thought it would be pretty obvious.  No need to answer if you don't want to.  
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As I wrote, I had my suspicions for a while, she denied it and lied to me. My daughters found her collapsed on the bathroom floor.

I do feel responsible that I did not act on my suspicions earlier. It horrifies me that our kids found her like that.

 
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