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rockaction

Chelsea Manning's Sentence Commuted

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15 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Confessed her crime, apologized for it, mental issues, served 6 years in prison already (in which she tried to kill herself). It's enough. Good decision, IMO. 

What Manning did was treason. Indiscriminately dumping tens of thousands of documents that revealed identities of informants and sources and forced the US to scramble to rescue ally sources in dangerous areas after the identity was disclosed is treason. Disclosing detailed accounts and plans of military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan is treason. Who knows how many sources dried up or never materialized because they became afraid for their safety after this.

A century ago Manning would have been executed for treason. The mental issues are a shame, but commuting this sentence is a joke.

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23 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Confessed her crime, apologized for it, mental issues, served 6 years in prison already (in which she tried to kill herself). It's enough. Good decision, IMO. 

Preposterous

 

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25 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

What Manning did was treason. Indiscriminately dumping tens of thousands of documents that revealed identities of informants and sources and forced the US to scramble to rescue ally sources in dangerous areas after the identity was disclosed is treason. Disclosing detailed accounts and plans of military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan is treason. Who knows how many sources dried up or never materialized because they became afraid for their safety after this.

A century ago Manning would have been executed for treason. The mental issues are a shame, but commuting this sentence is a joke.

If there is any positive's from this, it's that taxpayers won't be on the hook for any more of his gender swapping nonsense.

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Guy is a genius.  What a better way to get the liberals attention than turning into a woman.  Bradley would have rotted in a cell.

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Curious to hear the explanation here. I don't know #### about the FALN guy but Manning is lucky to have not been executed. I appreciate the idea she had- she helped end the Iraq War and revealed some of the biggest failures of our last 2 administrations. However, many lives were put at risk and operating were endangered. She should have been much much much more selective in what she released.

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4 minutes ago, Reg Lllama of Brixton said:

What's everybody's opinion on Ford pardoning Nixon?

That was cover on old green back in the cheatnote.html days.

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9 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Curious to hear the explanation here. I don't know #### about the FALN guy but Manning is lucky to have not been executed. I appreciate the idea she had- she helped end the Iraq War and revealed some of the biggest failures of our last 2 administrations. However, many lives were put at risk and operating were endangered. She should have been much much much more selective in what she released.

I forgot all of the details, but I think what she did was worse than Snowden.  Snowden did us all a great service by exposing the level of government snooping & data collection of innocent people.  Manning leaked some of our f ups & made us look bad. 

Edited by Quez

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7 minutes ago, Quez said:

This guy is going to be a superstar when he gets out.  Book deals, TV deals, etc.  

The guy had some serious issues and we'll see if he can string coherent thoughts together.

That being said when he has an extraordinary level of noterity so of course there will be interest in what he has to say.

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1 minute ago, The General said:

The guy had some serious issues and we'll see if he can string coherent thoughts together.

That being said when he has an extraordinary level of noterity so of course there will be interest in what he has to say.

I'm sure Oliver Stone will make a movie about him being a great american hero.

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16 minutes ago, Quez said:

Guy is a genius.  What a better way to get the liberals attention than turning into a woman.  Bradley would have rotted in a cell.

Yep

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10 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

That was cover on old green back in the cheatnote.html days.

I thought it was on rec.sport.football.fantasy 

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5 minutes ago, MaxThreshold said:

I'm sure Oliver Stone will make a movie about him being a great american hero.

Quite possible if there is a conspiracy angle.

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24 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Curious to hear the explanation here....Manning is lucky to have not been executed. I appreciate the idea she had- she helped end the Iraq War and revealed some of the biggest failures of our last 2 administrations. However, many lives were put at risk and operating were endangered. She should have been much much much more selective in what she released.

I've said this already but I'm so aggravated that I'll just say it again - the Russia hack/leak argument by Obama, which I have almost totally agreed with, is greatly weakened as an argument by this. Obama's enforcement of cyber and data security regs has been lousy to begin with, but the one thing he did do, belatedly, was put his foot down on the RIS attacks. But now? What do you say? That the government takes this stuff seriously under Obama? How do you do that? This is a crack that Trump will turn into a canyon and he will run through all day long.

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Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I've said this already but I'm so aggravated that I'll just say it again - the Russia hack/leak argument by Obama, which I have almost totally agreed with, is greatly weakened as an argument by this. Obama's enforcement of cyber and data security regs has been lousy to begin with, but the one thing he did do, belatedly, was put his foot down on the RIS attacks. But now? What do you say? That the government takes this stuff seriously under Obama? How do you do that? This is a crack that Trump will turn into a canyon and he will run through all day long.

It sure is. So is his refusal to pardon Snowden, who actually did citizens a favor by acting as a whistleblower when the NSA was lying to us. 

That leaking military secrets is considered better than acting as a whistleblower is beyond me.  

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I've bagged on Obama a lot over the years but he deserves credit for this.  This is the type of civil libertarian stuff I was hoping for from him back in 2008.  The treatment of Manning has been an absolute disgrace and I'm glad she'll get to breathe free again.  

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34 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I don't know #### about the FALN guy but Manning is lucky to have not been executed. 

Upside is we don't have to suffer through Leno hosting anymore.  

Edited by Mr. Ham
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15 minutes ago, rockaction said:

It sure is. So is his refusal to pardon Snowden, who actually did citizens a favor by acting as a whistleblower when the NSA was lying to us. 

That leaking military secrets is considered better than acting as a whistleblower is beyond me.  

And IMO this 'confusion' (FLOABT) further gives Trump the excuse he will need to pardon not only Snowden but also (for anything he could be charged with) Assange, thereby letting Trump let himself (and Putin) off the hook.

What Obama did here is as dumb as the day is long about three times to Sunday.

- eta - btw Rock I almost always stand in agreement with you on free speech issues, and I think in some alternate universe we are having some discussion about the fine points to be made in the two cases, but IMO it all goes out the window due to the throwdown that has just gone on over Russia hacking. Obama's take right now should be a pox on all houses and focus on consistency.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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35 minutes ago, Quez said:

Guy is a genius.  What a better way to get the liberals attention than turning into a woman.  Bradley would have rotted in a cell.

I suspect this is spot on. Bradley doesn't get commuted.  

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1 hour ago, GroveDiesel said:

What Manning did was treason. Indiscriminately dumping tens of thousands of documents that revealed identities of informants and sources and forced the US to scramble to rescue ally sources in dangerous areas after the identity was disclosed is treason. Disclosing detailed accounts and plans of military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan is treason. Who knows how many sources dried up or never materialized because they became afraid for their safety after this.

A century ago Manning would have been executed for treason. The mental issues are a shame, but commuting this sentence is a joke.

Yea well our incoming president is sucking on Russia's teet so who cares anymore. 

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1 hour ago, GroveDiesel said:

What Manning did was treason. Indiscriminately dumping tens of thousands of documents that revealed identities of informants and sources and forced the US to scramble to rescue ally sources in dangerous areas after the identity was disclosed is treason. Disclosing detailed accounts and plans of military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan is treason. Who knows how many sources dried up or never materialized because they became afraid for their safety after this.

A century ago Manning would have been executed for treason. The mental issues are a shame, but commuting this sentence is a joke.

I hear the word treason thrown around a lot, and I see where you are headed, but this is technically incorrect.  Manning wasn't even charged with treason.  Manning didn't leak docs to the enemy, they were leaked to the public.  Just because an enemy can use docs against you doesn't make you guilty of treason.  It may make you stupid and you may be guilty of other things, but it isn't treason (and legally you can only be treasonous if you are at war.  Congress never declared war, so couldn't legally be treasonous in this instance).  

Since you mention executions, the Rosenbergs, on the other hand were executed for espionage, and couldn't be tried for treason - since Russia was not a declared enemy.

Manning WAS tried for "aiding the enemy", but was found not guilty on that charge.

I saw an interesting comparison in an article...The pictures of Abu Ghraib were published by the New Yorker magazine.  The enemy used them against us.  If we were in a legal war, could the New Yorker have been found guilty of treason?   No, because it wasn't sent directly to an enemy with intent to harm the country.  Interesting legal divide....

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32 minutes ago, Christo said:
49 minutes ago, Quez said:

Guy is a genius.  What a better way to get the liberals attention than turning into a woman.  Bradley would have rotted in a cell.

Yep

You think Manning was faking it?

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17 minutes ago, rockaction said:

It sure is. So is his refusal to pardon Snowden, who actually did citizens a favor by acting as a whistleblower when the NSA was lying to us. 

That leaking military secrets is considered better than acting as a whistleblower is beyond me.  

Wasn't there some pretty nasty stuff in the Manning leak? US execution of Iraqi civilians and efforts to cover it up, etc? 

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

Confessed her crime, apologized for it, mental issues, served 6 years in prison already (in which she tried to kill herself). It's enough. Good decision, IMO. 

But over 10 years after Mel Gibson said something offensive while drunk and apologized for it you still refuse to forgive him. 

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1 hour ago, Quez said:

I forgot all of the details, but I think what she did was worse than Snowden.  Snowden did us all a great service by exposing the level of government snooping & data collection of innocent people.  Manning leaked some of our f ups & made us look bad. 

Translation: I have no idea

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45 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Wasn't there some pretty nasty stuff in the Manning leak? US execution of Iraqi civilians and efforts to cover it up, etc? 

Quote

On January 5, 2010, Manning downloaded the 400,000 documents that became known as the Iraq War logs.[55] On January 8 she downloaded 91,000 documents from the Afghanistan database, the Afghan War logs.

Quote

Manning contacted The Washington Post and The New York Times to ask if they were interested in the material; the Post reporter did not sound interested and the Times did not return the call. Manning decided instead to pass it to WikiLeaks, and on February 3 sent them the Iraq and Afghan War logs via Tor. She returned to Iraq on February 11, with no acknowledgement from WikiLeaks that they had received the files.

On or around February 18 she passed WikiLeaks a diplomatic cable, dated January 13, 2010, from the U.S. Embassy in Reykjavík, Iceland. They published it within hours, which suggested to Manning that they had received the other material too. She found the Baghdad helicopter attack ("Collateral murder") video in a Judge Advocate's directory, and passed it to WikiLeaks on or around February 21. In late March she sent them a video of the May 2009 Granai airstrike in Afghanistan; this was the video later removed and apparently destroyed by Daniel Domscheit-Berg when he left the organization. Between March 28 and April 9 she downloaded the 250,000 diplomatic cables, and uploaded them to a WikiLeaks dropbox on April 10.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#Release_of_material_to_WikiLeaks

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57 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

You think Manning was faking it?

I don't know. Possibly. But I do agree that (and the suicide attempts) is what earned the commutation.

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Wasn't there some pretty nasty stuff in the Manning leak? US execution of Iraqi civilians and efforts to cover it up, etc? 

Yea, but he wasn't just whistle-blowing. He released EVERYTHING he could get his hands on including highly sensitive and classified information that put lives at risk and weakened our national security. 

I understand the compassion angle here, however really do not like the precedent. 

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