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The Trump Years- Every day something more shocking than the last! (8 Viewers)

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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Tim, you're a fan of history, and I think somewhat political science. I don't think any Trump supporter can be convinced of anything policy-wise, in fact I don't think they hold real policy positions. And that's it, that's the phenomenon. It's a rejection of policy, expertise, facts, journalism. I personally think it's interesting to observe and try to understand what's going on, because 1. it's dangerous, to this country and our allies, and 2. this is real live history that's going on. My hope is that this is temporary, an historical delta wave, and not a realignment. Considering the fact that we are living through these "interesting times" as the Chinese put it I think it's best we should use this amazing tool to see what's happening.
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It was interesting to observe, for a while. It isn’t any longer, at least not for me. It’s repetitive crap. I’m sick of it.

 
The Commish said:
No....you guys keep giving them the attention in that thread.  Otherwise they come out of it and into others and screw them up.  Of course, now I am branded as a troublemaker because I wasn't going to let one of them twist my position, so now I am part of the problem apparently.  It's all for the better that you guys keep them in there....TIA.
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Yeah.  It is like r/TheDonald on Reddit.  

 
timschochet said:
New Texas polls from University of Houston: 6 of the Democrat candidates are beating Trump head to head: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theweek.com/speedreads-amp/864097/6-democratic-candidates-are-beating-trump-new-texas-poll

Its probably not real. I don’t think it’s wise to expect that Texas is going to be a blue state, or even a purple one, in 2020. But still...
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Of course not. Trump is going to win every state with the most votes ever in the world. 

All glory and honor to you almost Almighty Trump! Forever and ever, covfefe. 

 
The Commish said:
No....you guys keep giving them the attention in that thread.  Otherwise they come out of it and into others and screw them up.  Of course, now I am branded as a troublemaker because I wasn't going to let one of them twist my position, so now I am part of the problem apparently.  It's all for the better that you guys keep them in there....TIA.
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I took a look in that thread, hadn't been there in a while.  :shock:   :tinfoilhat: It's something over there

 
badmojo1006 said:
I took a look in that thread, hadn't been there in a while.  :shock:   :tinfoilhat: It's something over there
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Not surprising.... early i committed to not going back in there giving them the safe space they wanted. I posted in there once after that thinking i had clicked on a different thread....ooops, multitasking.... that happened once. ONCE. :lol:

 
I don't believe that all conservatives reject expertise, facts, and journalism. But many of those who support Trump do. In particular, most of those who openly support Trump in this forum ignore facts and spout false information most of the time. Some of them are bright people, which means they are either fooling themselves or trolling, or its a combination of the two. I used to try and figure out what their motivation is, now I find I no longer care.

 
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timschochet said:
I don't believe that all conservatives reject expertise, facts, and journalism. But many of those who support Trump do. In particular, most of those who openly support Trump in this forum ignore facts and spew garbage most of the time. Some of them are bright people, which means they are either fooling themselves or trolling, or its a combination of the two. I used to try and figure out what their motivation is, now I find I no longer care.
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Go ahead and list the facts that Trump supporters reject.  I'll hang up and listen.

 
Don't Noonan said:
Go ahead and list the facts that Trump supporters reject.  I'll hang up and listen.
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Thank you, but I will decline. I've done it before. I've spent months doing it. Others continue to do it, and will no doubt keep on. More power to them, but I'm out.

You're no dummy, DN. You're a smart guy. If you still support President Trump at this point then there is no argument or information that I can offer to change your mind.

 
timschochet said:
Thank you, but I will decline. I've done it before. I've spent months doing it. Others continue to do it, and will no doubt keep on. More power to them, but I'm out.

You're no dummy, DN. You're a smart guy. If you still support President Trump at this point then there is no argument or information that I can offer to change your mind.
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OK - I will take this as a win and admitted falsehood that you and others have claimed that Trump supporters don't accept facts.

 
moleculo said:
what's a load of garbage?  that conservatives reject policy, expertise, facts, or journalism?  because that's Gods honest truth. 
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This kind of painting with a broad brush is what derails the conversation I believe.  While what you’re saying is absolutely true for a faction of Trump supporters it is absolutely not correct for all “conservatives”

 
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I will give Trump credit for trying to put a ban on those flavored e-cigarettes.   Most people realize that they are way more dangerous than regular cigarettes hid under children like flavors to get them started as early as possible. 

Now an argument could be made that why worrying about banning something charged to 6 deaths while the average number of death and injuries in mass shootings this year alone is more than 6.  But safe to say most Trump supporters are huffing away on bubble gum or chocolate milkshake or whatever crap flavor  e-cigarettes.  

 
hammerva said:
I will give Trump credit for trying to put a ban on those flavored e-cigarettes.   Most people realize that they are way more dangerous than regular cigarettes hid under children like flavors to get them started as early as possible. 

Now an argument could be made that why worrying about banning something charged to 6 deaths while the average number of death and injuries in mass shootings this year alone is more than 6.  But safe to say most Trump supporters are huffing away on bubble gum or chocolate milkshake or whatever crap flavor  e-cigarettes.  
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Came here to discuss this and agree with this entire post. 

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
hammerva said:
I will give Trump credit for trying to put a ban on those flavored e-cigarettes.   Most people realize that they are way more dangerous than regular cigarettes hid under children like flavors to get them started as early as possible. 

Now an argument could be made that why worrying about banning something charged to 6 deaths while the average number of death and injuries in mass shootings this year alone is more than 6.  But safe to say most Trump supporters are huffing away on bubble gum or chocolate milkshake or whatever crap flavor  e-cigarettes.  
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Came here to discuss this and agree with this entire post. 
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Are they actually going to ban them?  Altria is up today.

 
hammerva said:
I will give Trump credit for trying to put a ban on those flavored e-cigarettes.   Most people realize that they are way more dangerous than regular cigarettes hid under children like flavors to get them started as early as possible. 

Now an argument could be made that why worrying about banning something charged to 6 deaths while the average number of death and injuries in mass shootings this year alone is more than 6.  But safe to say most Trump supporters are huffing away on bubble gum or chocolate milkshake or whatever crap flavor  e-cigarettes.  
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Is this what people think now? That e-cigs are MORE dangerous than regular cigarettes?

//tiredofthedarkesttimeline

 
The Trump Administration has moved to severely limit, or outright eliminate, Bahamian refugees trying to come here fleeing their countries’ devastation. 

Just another day in Trump’s America, in which our exceptionalism is being eroded hour by hour. 

 
(HULK) said:
Real cigarettes are significantly worse for your health than electronic ones.
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If used in the same amounts. I guess the questions are, have the electronic ones surpassed real ones in amount of intake per "smoker," what health consequences accrue if so, and if/how the electronicness or reduction in per dosage damage has increased utilization.

 
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timschochet said:
The Trump Administration has moved to severely limit, or outright eliminate, Bahamian refugees trying to come here fleeing their countries’ devastation. 

Just another day in Trump’s America, in which our exceptionalism is being eroded hour by hour. 
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Our? I'm as exceptional as I've ever been - maybe even more so.

Trump's still a dirt bag though, same as he ever was. This is just your bi-daily reminder of that fact.

 
dkp993 said:
This kind of painting with a broad brush is what derails the conversation I believe.  While what you’re saying is absolutely true for a faction of Trump supporters it last absolutely not correct for all “conservatives”
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I want to argue with you in that I didn't say "all" conservatives, although I guess it could be implied. 

Would it be better if I said "many conservatives" or perhaps "conservative leadership" or even "conservative media"?  "the pro-Trump wing of the conservative media"?

I think the brush is actually quite broad.

 
Gr00vus said:
Our? I'm as exceptional as I've ever been - maybe even more so.

Trump's still a dirt bag though, same as he ever was. This is just your bi-daily reminder of that fact.
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The United States, like all nations,  is best judged by how our elected government chooses to behave. Right now that government is behaving very badly, and that reflects poorly on us as a nation. 

 
Regarding vaping: I think it’s dangerous, I hope my kids never do it (it’s very prevalent in high school and college). 

And yet, in terms of making it illegal, there’s really a high level of double standard here, because cigarettes are even MORE dangerous. And not only would we never make them illegal, we export them around the world.

So I would have no problem with a surgeon general warning for electronic cigarettes (is there one already?) but as for making them illegal- I can’t be for it at this time. 

 
timschochet said:
Regarding vaping: I think it’s dangerous, I hope my kids never do it (it’s very prevalent in high school and college). 

And yet, in terms of making it illegal, there’s really a high level of double standard here, because cigarettes are even MORE dangerous. And not only would we never make them illegal, we export them around the world.

So I would have no problem with a surgeon general warning for electronic cigarettes (is there one already?) but as for making them illegal- I can’t be for it at this time. 
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It's just the flavored ones.

 
timschochet said:
Still though...doesn’t it strike you as hypocritical? 
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It has been illegal to market tobacco products to minors for many years.    The flavored e-cigs are designed for and marketed to minors.   It's illegal under federal law, and flavored cigarettes (except menthol) were outlawed in 2009.  

 
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timschochet said:
I don't believe that all conservatives reject expertise, facts, and journalism. But many of those who support Trump do. In particular, most of those who openly support Trump in this forum ignore facts and spout false information most of the time. Some of them are bright people, which means they are either fooling themselves or trolling, or its a combination of the two. I used to try and figure out what their motivation is, now I find I no longer care.
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You’re almost there - now just put them on ignore and/or never reply to them and we will be all set.  Hopefully others come around too.  

 
Trump is crazy, but by making himself to be an #### on a daily basis, journalist fail to bring to the masses the real problems that beset previous presidents - things like Iran, North Korea, spending, etc, etc.  They are so focused on his asinine comments and the easy fodder that Trump never has to defend his policies beyond a few words.  I think all part of his ploy to get re-elected.  He will be able to say the US is better off now than 4 years ago, and whether it is or isn't, not many people will disagree with him because he's blinded the masses with ridiculous comments.  Whether or not this is intentional, who knows.

 
Brunell4MVP said:
Trump is crazy, but by making himself to be an #### on a daily basis, journalist fail to bring to the masses the real problems that beset previous presidents - things like Iran, North Korea, spending, etc, etc.  They are so focused on his asinine comments and the easy fodder that Trump never has to defend his policies beyond a few words.  I think all part of his ploy to get re-elected.  He will be able to say the US is better off now than 4 years ago, and whether it is or isn't, not many people will disagree with him because he's blinded the masses with ridiculous comments.  Whether or not this is intentional, who knows.
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I’ve thought this at different times and finally came to the conclusion he’s not smart enough or disciplined enough to pull this off.  He’s truly just incompetent and any positive side effects (for him) are just a coincidence.

 
AAABatteries said:
I’ve thought this at different times and finally came to the conclusion he’s not smart enough or disciplined enough to pull this off.  He’s truly just incompetent and any positive side effects (for him) are just a coincidence.
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He’s your bad stressed manager jumping from idea to idea (some good, but the vast majority bad), just hoping that something sticks.  This is especially true in foreign policy where he’s looking to make that one deal that will win him the Nobel.  Only problem is at this point everyone knows he’s the sucker and how to play him.  

Like your bad manager, his incompetence is funny for awhile, but at some point it crosses the line and directly starts hurting you.

 
Mile High said:
They want to discourage kids from using them. I suppose kids can still smoke the tobacco favored ones
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From what little I have read about this it was mentioned that if they see kids shifting to the non flavored ones they will move on those next.

I have zero interest in this disgusting habit so a ban means nothing to me, but from what I have read this is one of the few times I’m agreeing with a Trump administration move.

 
Gr00vus said:
If used in the same amounts. I guess the questions are, have the electronic ones surpassed real ones in amount of intake per "smoker," what health consequences accrue if so, and if/how the electronicness or reduction in per dosage damage has increased utilization.
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They're not the same. Cigarettes have you ingesting smoke and a slew of other chemicals. E-cigs have you ingesting nicotine, and 1 chemical, plus potentially flavoring.

If I smoked 20 Juul cartridges a day I'd still be better off than a pack a day smoker.

 
timschochet said:
Regarding vaping: I think it’s dangerous, I hope my kids never do it (it’s very prevalent in high school and college). 

And yet, in terms of making it illegal, there’s really a high level of double standard here, because cigarettes are even MORE dangerous. And not only would we never make them illegal, we export them around the world.

So I would have no problem with a surgeon general warning for electronic cigarettes (is there one already?) but as for making them illegal- I can’t be for it at this time. 
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Nicotine is highly addictive and they're not for kids. They're also not harmless. But, in terms of harm, a Juul habit is closer to say a Red Bull habit than a smoking habit. It's not great for you, but it's also not catastrophically terrible either.

My problem with this is two fold:

1) it's already abundantly clear that the people getting sick are getting sick from using unregulated cannabis vapes they're buying from drug dealers. This legislation has zero to do with what is actually going on, and I'm concerned some well times donations from tobacco lobbyists are driving the bus and using this opportunity to conflate the two issues.

2) nicotine vapes are not for kids, are illegal for kids, and shouldn't be marketed to kids. Flavors are just one aspect of that. Flavors also appeal to adults who use vapes to get off of cigarettes. By focusing on that you're likely driving a portion of that adult population back to cigarettes. There are other areas that could be focused on in terms of dealing with kids doing it, like cracking down on vendors selling them to minors, etc.

 
(HULK) said:
Nicotine is highly addictive and they're not for kids. They're also not harmless. But, in terms of harm, a Juul habit is closer to say a Red Bull habit than a smoking habit. It's not great for you, but it's also not catastrophically terrible either.

My problem with this is two fold:

1) it's already abundantly clear that the people getting sick are getting sick from using unregulated cannabis vapes they're buying from drug dealers. This legislation has zero to do with what is actually going on, and I'm concerned some well times donations from tobacco lobbyists are driving the bus and using this opportunity to conflate the two issues.

2) nicotine vapes are not for kids, are illegal for kids, and shouldn't be marketed to kids. Flavors are just one aspect of that. Flavors also appeal to adults who use vapes to get off of cigarettes. By focusing on that you're likely driving a portion of that adult population back to cigarettes. There are other areas that could be focused on in terms of dealing with kids doing it, like cracking down on vendors selling them to minors, etc.
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Thanks, these seem to be good points. 

 
badmojo1006 said:
Trump interested in a 15 billion dollar bailout

What the everlasting #### is he thinking? Gets rid of Bolton and wants to be nicey nice.

This ranks up with one of his dumbest ideas ever. How are the Trumpettes going to rationalize this?

:wall: :rolleyes: :wall:
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So funny. 

Would I approve of this? Of course. Just as I will approve when he finally does a deal with China. But in both cases, all he’s doing is cleaning up a mess he caused in the first place. 

 
timschochet said:
So funny. 

Would I approve of this? Of course. Just as I will approve when he finally does a deal with China. But in both cases, all he’s doing is cleaning up a mess he caused in the first place. 
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But you know this is a trial balloon. When the conservatives get up in arms about this, he will withdraw.

 
Come on, people. You should know the drill by now.

Trump floats a dumb idea, conservatives freak out, and then suddenly Trump claims he was never going to do it in the first place and that the whole story is Fake News.

 
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