Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I'm part of prayer groups all the time. It's really a rather common thing for us. Shouldn't be creepy.Hawkeye21 said:
Having said that, we don't do it with cameras out nor do we look for ways to post about on social media.
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The Trump Years- Every day something more shocking than the last! (10 Viewers)
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Having said that, we don't do it with cameras out nor do we look for ways to post about on social media.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
If they are all truly in prayer together then I have no issue with it other than it being posted for the public to see. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it was staged though.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Do you ever pray with/pray for someone who stands straight and doesn't actually pray with you?
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Sure. If we are praying for the specific person (which it looks like is what is happening here).
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I'm sorry but to an unchurched leftist like me this is inexplicable to observe. That's why I pointed to it as a societal disconnect. It's normal and comfortable for you to see but I see pod people and I don't know what they're doing.
beef
Footballguy
Normal and comfortable in the right place. I've heard of bi-partisan Congress prayer meetings and wouldn't be surprised if they prayed like this. But it's in a private basement room out of public view. Not a "chosen one" marketing ploy. That's what makes it uncomfortable for me. Absolutely goes against what Christ said in Matthew 6.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I get it.
I'm guessing from the outside looking in watching 500 people do a shot of grape juice in unison with their eyes closed looks really freaky as well.
msommer
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I think that was koolaide, but good shot.
Though now that I think about it, yeah if for some reason when doing communion if my pastor said we were using koolaide this week instead of juice to signify wine, I would probably not drink that.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
beef
Footballguy
I can understand that.
It's pretty common. Often it's more a thing where each person prays in a group on their own But this kind of group around one person or a couple is common. Here's one with Obama. Sometimes / oftentimes it's more a thing everyone just bows their head. But even then, it's common that people will hold hands like this.
I do see how this might look odd to someone that doesn't pray though. I get that.
But for people that do pray, it's pretty common. And for what it's worth, I don't really think putting a hand on the shoulder of the person you're praying for really adds anything to the prayer. In my opinion, that's usually more a show of support for the person.
And I do think it's odd to promote it on social media.
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Zow
Footballguy
Especially if you're told that is somebody's actual blood. And it's done to wash down the portion of his body that you ate.
Zow
Footballguy
On its, yes, it's definitely odd. However, it's not odd for Trump to want to continue to be the champion of the religious right. I think this picture was posted on social media as a means to achieve this end.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_laying_on_of_hands
Joe kind of touched on it but there's lots of people that believe in this or do it. The creepy part to me is doing it for someone who acts like that guy.
Joe kind of touched on it but there's lots of people that believe in this or do it. The creepy part to me is doing it for someone who acts like that guy.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Maybe...though people that act like that guy perhaps need the prayer more than anyone. (However, I doubt the group he allows to get close think of it that way)
Matthew 6:5-6, "“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father,who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
I was wondering what Jesus would say if He saw this. Now I know.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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So Trump is apparently wanting to cut off aid to California for wildfires, despite the federal government owning half of the forested land in the state.
That seems like a bit of a #### move to me, or at the very least, poor timing, especially since Trump wants to continue to cut back on the Forestry budget, which handles fire mitigation on the federal land.
That seems like a bit of a #### move to me, or at the very least, poor timing, especially since Trump wants to continue to cut back on the Forestry budget, which handles fire mitigation on the federal land.
Mile High
Footballguy
The state controls just 3% of forest land in California, while the federal government owns 57%, according to numbers provided by the Newsom's office. About 40% of the state's forest are privately owned. Neither of the two major fires currently burning are on forest land.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/trump-threatens-cut-us-funding-california-wildfires-66724797
It still reads poorly. I get Trump and Newsom don't like each other, but lives are at stake here, Donald, at least attempt to find a heart in there somewhere. Even the Grinch had one before his face turn.
Mile High
Footballguy
Trump threatens funding for California forest fires that didn’t happen.
The big fires that hit Southern California last week burned expensive Los Angeles homes, swept through lush agricultural land, closed the 405 Freeway and threatened a presidential library.
But they did not burn through large swaths of forests.
Nonetheless, President Trump weighed in Sunday on Twitter with a new critique of Caifornia’s forest management practices.
Gov. Gavin Newsom “has done a terrible job of forest management. I told him from the first day we met that he must ‘clean’ his forest floors regardless of what his bosses, the environmentalists, DEMAND of him. Must also do burns and cut fire stoppers...
”...Every year, as the fire’s rage & California burns, it is the same thing-and then he comes to the Federal Government for $$$ help. No more. Get your act together Governor.”
Newsom shot back with his own tweet Sunday morning: “You don’t believe in climate change. You are excused from this conversation.”
Trump’s comments contrast with the types of blazes firefighters battled last week:
--The most destructive fire broke out in the heart of Los Angeles’ Westside, starting just off the 405 Freeway near the Getty Center and burning 12 homes in Brentwood.
--The Easy fire, which threatened the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, occurred in a suburban area dotted by subdivisions and open spaces in Ventura County.
--The Maria fire burned on a mountain amid citrus and avocado groves between Santa Paula and Somis.
--The 46 fire occurred in a riverbed in Riverside County, the result of a car crash at the end of a high-speed police pursuit. The fire leaped from the riverbed to a nearby shipping container manufacturer.
--The Hillside fire did begin at the edge of the San Bernardino National Forest. But it quickly burned downhill into a San Bernardino neighborhood, which is where the fire fight occurred. It ended up burning just 200 acres but destroyed several homes.
In his Sunday tweets, Trump also seemed to threaten to cut federal funding for fires, something he’s said before.
After last year’s devastating fires in Paradise and the Malibu and Ventura County areas, Trump erroneously claimed those fires were the result of poor forest management. That sparked widespread anger in California, including among firefighters.
“We’ve got to take care of the floors, you know, the floors of the forest. It’s very important,” the president said last year, adding Finland focuses “on raking and cleaning and doing things, and they don’t have any problem, and when it is … I know everyone is looking at that... We’ve got to take care of the floors, you know, the floors of the forest. It’s very important.”
Experts quickly noted that neither the Camp nor Woolsey fires were forest fires.
They said the fire that burned thousands of homes in Paradise, killing dozens, was a vegetation fire that became a building-to-building fire when it got into the city. The Woolsey fire was not near any forests and burned through hillside communities, open space and suburban subdivisions.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-11-03/trump-twitter-california-forest-fires-that-didnt-happen%3f_amp=true
The big fires that hit Southern California last week burned expensive Los Angeles homes, swept through lush agricultural land, closed the 405 Freeway and threatened a presidential library.
But they did not burn through large swaths of forests.
Nonetheless, President Trump weighed in Sunday on Twitter with a new critique of Caifornia’s forest management practices.
Gov. Gavin Newsom “has done a terrible job of forest management. I told him from the first day we met that he must ‘clean’ his forest floors regardless of what his bosses, the environmentalists, DEMAND of him. Must also do burns and cut fire stoppers...
”...Every year, as the fire’s rage & California burns, it is the same thing-and then he comes to the Federal Government for $$$ help. No more. Get your act together Governor.”
Newsom shot back with his own tweet Sunday morning: “You don’t believe in climate change. You are excused from this conversation.”
Trump’s comments contrast with the types of blazes firefighters battled last week:
--The most destructive fire broke out in the heart of Los Angeles’ Westside, starting just off the 405 Freeway near the Getty Center and burning 12 homes in Brentwood.
--The Easy fire, which threatened the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, occurred in a suburban area dotted by subdivisions and open spaces in Ventura County.
--The Maria fire burned on a mountain amid citrus and avocado groves between Santa Paula and Somis.
--The 46 fire occurred in a riverbed in Riverside County, the result of a car crash at the end of a high-speed police pursuit. The fire leaped from the riverbed to a nearby shipping container manufacturer.
--The Hillside fire did begin at the edge of the San Bernardino National Forest. But it quickly burned downhill into a San Bernardino neighborhood, which is where the fire fight occurred. It ended up burning just 200 acres but destroyed several homes.
In his Sunday tweets, Trump also seemed to threaten to cut federal funding for fires, something he’s said before.
After last year’s devastating fires in Paradise and the Malibu and Ventura County areas, Trump erroneously claimed those fires were the result of poor forest management. That sparked widespread anger in California, including among firefighters.
“We’ve got to take care of the floors, you know, the floors of the forest. It’s very important,” the president said last year, adding Finland focuses “on raking and cleaning and doing things, and they don’t have any problem, and when it is … I know everyone is looking at that... We’ve got to take care of the floors, you know, the floors of the forest. It’s very important.”
Experts quickly noted that neither the Camp nor Woolsey fires were forest fires.
They said the fire that burned thousands of homes in Paradise, killing dozens, was a vegetation fire that became a building-to-building fire when it got into the city. The Woolsey fire was not near any forests and burned through hillside communities, open space and suburban subdivisions.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-11-03/trump-twitter-california-forest-fires-that-didnt-happen%3f_amp=true
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
badmojo1006
Footballguy
yak651
Footballguy
Joe Summer
Footballguy
He's not going to cut funding. It's just another lie to make the base giddy.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Which thread does the audio of Richard Spencer spouting horrible racist crap belong in? (not linking)
I thought about the punching Nazis thread, but since Spencer is super tightsies with Stephen "Also a Real Nazi" Miller and Steve "So Toxic I Had to Leave the Trump White House" Bannon I figured it might as well go in the Trump thread.
They are who we thought they are.
I thought about the punching Nazis thread, but since Spencer is super tightsies with Stephen "Also a Real Nazi" Miller and Steve "So Toxic I Had to Leave the Trump White House" Bannon I figured it might as well go in the Trump thread.
They are who we thought they are.
People surprised by Richard Spencer are probably also surprised that the pizza place that all those democrats were molesting children in actually didn't have a basement. And believe that Trump has never lied before or that he was sent down by God like that mouth breather in the pillow commercial
The only great thing about the Spencer stuff is that the person who ratted him was that Milo goof. Nothing like some good old nazi on nazi violence
The only great thing about the Spencer stuff is that the person who ratted him was that Milo goof. Nothing like some good old nazi on nazi violence
SWC
Bromigo
i listened to his rant and i return to my idea that we should be allowed to launch certain people in to the sun while they are eaten by bees take that to the bank brohans
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
The Daily Mail is reporting on an allegation that kushner gave MBS the green light to arrest Khashoggi, Turkey knew, and Erdogan used that as blackmail to get trump to pull troops out.
If this is true, impeachment and removal can't wait. Our commander in chief being compromised and making military decisions for his personal gain is the nightmare scenario.
But even if it's not true, the president actually withheld military aid from a country for personal gain.
"It's just Ukraine" is a horrifying argument to begin with. But if this is true then who knows how many other mysteries will be solved when we find out what trump got in return for selling out our country. This is a guy who just privations to withhold aid from a state while it's on fire. Is that because he disagrees with their politics?
If this is true, impeachment and removal can't wait. Our commander in chief being compromised and making military decisions for his personal gain is the nightmare scenario.
But even if it's not true, the president actually withheld military aid from a country for personal gain.
"It's just Ukraine" is a horrifying argument to begin with. But if this is true then who knows how many other mysteries will be solved when we find out what trump got in return for selling out our country. This is a guy who just privations to withhold aid from a state while it's on fire. Is that because he disagrees with their politics?
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Mario Kart
Footballguy
The whole family should be in prison given what we know already not to mention what is speculated here. The only Trump’s worth a darn are Tiffany and Barron. The “Trump” name will go down in history infamy as the dirtiest name ever in modern American history. Shameful.
bostonfred
Footballguy
That may be true but there's a large contingent of people who still don't believe facts in evidence for a variety of reasons.
This is beyond the worst things alleged so far. This may be the single most shocking piece of news about a president in American history.
I cannot imagine any defense of this.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
Kyle Griffin@kylegriffin1
Breaking via CNBC: A federal appeals court has ruled that Trump's tax returns must be turned over to a state grand jury. The panel rejected Trump's argument that he's immune as president from criminal investigation while in the White House.
I am not even sure where this goes - so I'll probably cross-post in a couple of threads...
Breaking via CNBC: A federal appeals court has ruled that Trump's tax returns must be turned over to a state grand jury. The panel rejected Trump's argument that he's immune as president from criminal investigation while in the White House.
I am not even sure where this goes - so I'll probably cross-post in a couple of threads...
Mile High
Footballguy
MON NOV 4, 2019 / 10:50 AM EST
New York prosecutors can get Trump tax returns, court rules
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1XE1O8
New York prosecutors can get Trump tax returns, court rules
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1XE1O8
BREAKING: Jay Sekulow statement on 2nd Circuit opinion against POTUS allowing for a NY state criminal subpoena to the Trump Org: "We will be taking this case to the Supreme Court."
Color me shocked.
This is the 2nd Circuit opinion: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6538526/11-4-19-Trump-v-Vance-Opinion.pdf
ETA:
The President relies on what he described at oral argument as “temporary absolute presidential immunity”—he argues that he is absolutely immune from all stages of state criminal process while in office, including pre‐indictment investigation, and that the Mazars subpoena cannot be enforced in furtherance of any investigation into his activities. We have no occasion to decide today the precise contours and limitations of presidential immunity from prosecution, and we express no opinion on the applicability of any such immunity under circumstances not presented here. Instead, after reviewing historical and legal precedent, we conclude only that presidential immunity does not bar the enforcement of a state grand jury subpoena directing a third party to produce non‐privileged material, even when the subject matter under investigation pertains to the President.
ETA:
The President relies on what he described at oral argument as “temporary absolute presidential immunity”—he argues that he is absolutely immune from all stages of state criminal process while in office, including pre‐indictment investigation, and that the Mazars subpoena cannot be enforced in furtherance of any investigation into his activities. We have no occasion to decide today the precise contours and limitations of presidential immunity from prosecution, and we express no opinion on the applicability of any such immunity under circumstances not presented here. Instead, after reviewing historical and legal precedent, we conclude only that presidential immunity does not bar the enforcement of a state grand jury subpoena directing a third party to produce non‐privileged material, even when the subject matter under investigation pertains to the President.
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Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Would the SC even agree to hear the case?
Can't wait to find out what Trump and his entire team are fighting so desperately to hide.
I am reading the 2nd Circuit Opinion now - and I think there is a decent chance they (Supreme Court) declines to even take the case.
The president's posture is that he is absolutely immune - to such an extent that it also applies to 3rd parties - in this case Mazars, the accountants. There is no such immunity - as seen in both the Nixon and Clinton cases recently.
This case might have been a little different if NY had subpoenaed Trump directly - but since this subpoena does not require Trump to do anything - he is kind of SOL here.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Unfortunately when the law not only intersects with politics, but collides head on into it the outcome is rarely decided by stare decisis.
Yes and No.
Close call - I agree. But this particular issue is so strongly decided against Trump that I think the SC is just as likely to pass on even hearing the case, as it is to force itself to reverse some strong cases that say the President is not above the law.
For example - if the issue of forcing Executive branch employees to testify to congress came up - that is the sort of wiggle room where a polarized court could see fit to find the outcome it wanted politically. (I think Roberts is cognizant of that impression - and is more likely to be the swing vote that would not enhance presidential privilege claims - but it would be a close call)
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
As I've speculated for years now, Trump is broke. Which is why he got in bed with the Russians and other hostile nations like SA.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
A responsible Court of Jurists devoted to the law and the Constitution would never allow the President to be above the law. The question is, would this Court, as constituted, carve out exceptions. I use to not even consider such matters. Lately, I have begun to do so, and that is a sad commentary on our times.
I guess, in the end here I will allow myself to be guided by your judgment on this matter as I find you a well informed and level headed fellow. Maybe the winds of these times have me drifting from my moorings. Maybe I need a loadstone, a true north, a guide through the wilderness. Henry Ford can't bear that responsibility alone.
I guess, in the end here I will allow myself to be guided by your judgment on this matter as I find you a well informed and level headed fellow. Maybe the winds of these times have me drifting from my moorings. Maybe I need a loadstone, a true north, a guide through the wilderness. Henry Ford can't bear that responsibility alone.
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beef
Footballguy
Thanks for the reminder. I just set aside more money for my kids college funds. I'm more than willing to bankrupt my future and retirement account to make sure they're well educated, and also their kids.
- Status
