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The Trump Years- Every day something more shocking than the last! (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter gussy
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James Daulton
Footballguy
You realize that loyal to Trump trumps loyal to country to his fervent supporters right?
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
I don't. Seems ill advised.
Also, I don't recognize that news source in the link so am giving it the same credibility as I see from Trump supporters that buttress their opinions by quoting www.totallynotaconspiracytrumpisgreat.org
msommer
Footballguy
Honestly starting to believe that among the most fervent the word to use is probably equals
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The new Dir ODNI has been on other countries’ payroll. There are swamps and there are bubbling cesspools.
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msommer
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Yes of course, he's acting for the acting, and the actually nominated and confirmed Director was fired.
Zow
Footballguy
Requiring that an employee swear a minimal oath to follow and defend the constitution and the laws of a particular state likely passed constitutional muster.
Requiring a person swear an oath to a particular person is grossly un-American. I’d suggest that firing somebody for not affirming loyalty to a particular person is right there with that.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
No loyalty oath. Basically, if you are some Democrat political employee that is actively doing political things (e.g campaigning, volunteering, donating), then you have a red flag and have to hit the bricks. In my experience, this is pretty standard procedure when a Dem takes office. Republicans tend to be more forgiving.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Don Quixote
Footballguy
The article suggests their review goes to career civil service employees too, which is far from standard procedure under any administration post-Pendleton Act.knowledge dropper said:
Zow
Footballguy
I agree with your first sentence. Generally though that’s probably gotta be a pretty narrowly tailored clause.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
All of this belongs in the dictatorship thread. Again, this isn't how things are supposed to work.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
No, no, no, no, a thousand times, no. This hasn't been standard procedure ever.knowledge dropper said:
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
I work in government. You participate in a campaign you are toast. Just depends on your position
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Do you have any idea how many times Kellyanne Conway has been officially found in violation of the Hatch Act?
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Can you show your work? I’m simply not sure this is true.knowledge dropper said:
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
I’m not sure how I can link 25+ years of personal experience. Sorry.
ETA. That’s why many in civil service are smart to Register as an independent even though they aren’t. I worked for one agency head that knew all party affiliations on day one. Boff Sidezzz do it.
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Snorkelson
Footballguy
I think if someone loses their job because they post that AOC “needs a round” it’s deserved. If someone loses their job because they said “trump is a moron” on Facebook (or fbgs) I think that’s probably illegal. If whoever suggested Jr and Ivanka is should visit covid19 patients worked in government and had repercussions because of what they implied it could possibly be warranted (I’m more of a Bird law guy so this may not be true, but I would understand it.) If someone is fired simply because they are a Republican or Democrat is definitely wrong. There are instances where someone serves at the pleasure of the office, and those are legitimate. I don’t know that anyone is being fired for that, or for “not being loyal.” I don’t think it’s ok for either party.
Would you be willing to give an example of your experiences? You don’t have to give the whole 28 years, just an instance where someone was fired based on political affiliation (or clarify exactly what you are accusing dems that take office of doing?) You may be right, and it’s hard to measure against what this administration has just begun doing. It’s a pretty bold accusation for either side to make.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
It’s unlawful to fire a civil servant for partisan reasons. Civil service employees can file grievances with the Meeit Systems Protection Board if there are violations of this law. Of course, Trump has basically hollowed out that agency so anything goes these days. But that hasn’t been true in the past.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Not all jobs people consider civil service are actually protected. Protected jobs are normally safe, but there are ways around that by job abolishment or office closures.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't remember where we "discussed" the terrorist attack by Saudi Nationals on the US Naval Base in Pensacola, so I'm just going to plop this in here. They're back 
https://www.wptv.com/news/state/saudi-military-students-resume-us-flight-training?fbclid=IwAR0mKqGnPNqpkI8lt39NuNBPqHY-pD3oK3w2Pad2a9W3S6j1l6IvyBc-4NY
https://www.wptv.com/news/state/saudi-military-students-resume-us-flight-training?fbclid=IwAR0mKqGnPNqpkI8lt39NuNBPqHY-pD3oK3w2Pad2a9W3S6j1l6IvyBc-4NY
Sweet J
Footballguy
You are arguing in bad faith. You are taking a specific situation and trying to imply that it happens more broadly.
Yes, political appointees (including Schedule C politicals) can be let go. But "typical" federal employees can't. And no, there is no great history of protected federal civil servants being fired by "both sides" because of political speech.
We really need to have some standards for this board.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
I am going on MY experience. No bad faith. Attitudes like yours is why this board is on its last legs. Be more excellent to other posters.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Right but you haven’t expounded on your experience other than “it’s too vast to get into.” Enlighten us.
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knowledge dropper
Footballguy
One example, One party had established a level of management for people that had worked on a campaign. Within a year of the office changing hands the positions were abolished. Based upon their tenure or territorial rights they were put on the streets or in jobs with no real role.
Mookie
Footballguy
I have been a government employee for over 20 years and work with people who have all sorts of differing political views, including many elected officials from both sides. I have yet to see a government employee fired for their political affiliation or political comments made at work, in private, or on Facebook. I've seen employees fired for divulging confidential information, undermining the goals and objectives of a department, and harassing other employees, but never for not being "loyal" to an elected official.
In my experience, employees who are devotedly loyal to elected individuals don't last long once those elected officials leave office because the "loyalty", if such a thing can be quantified, belongs to the government organization and the laws that entity operates under. When an employee hitches their wagon to a particular individual, that employee has often demonstrated an inability to further the broader goals of the political subdivision in favor of a specific, individualized agenda.
In my experience, employees who are devotedly loyal to elected individuals don't last long once those elected officials leave office because the "loyalty", if such a thing can be quantified, belongs to the government organization and the laws that entity operates under. When an employee hitches their wagon to a particular individual, that employee has often demonstrated an inability to further the broader goals of the political subdivision in favor of a specific, individualized agenda.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
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Ned
Footballguy
Those can't be real.
Osaurus
Footballguy
Right? I weep for the future.Those can't be real.
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The Commish
Footballguy
They are real and they're spectacularThose can't be real.
msommer
Footballguy
Bernie had great feet and balance and I prefer Dos Equis anyway*
*not an actual quote, yet
Sweet J
Footballguy
Someone responded "hey moron he is wearing Barry Sanders he was a famous Detroit Tigers in the 80s." Somehow I love this response the best.
The Commish
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
belljr
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
If you take away Bernie’s two big primary wins, his delegate per state average is just okay.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Really inspires confidence....
"We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical."
-- Trump on the coronavirus
"We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical."
-- Trump on the coronavirus
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Oh Father Trump, you really knocked it out of the ballpark yet again!
Herb
Footballguy
JFC. The "businessman" doesn't even understand supply and demand.
Ordering supplies doesn't do much good when they all come from China, which is not producing them, because they are in lockdown.
msommer
Footballguy
"Sorry we couldn't save your grandma, the meds were on order. Vote for me!"*
*not an actual quote yet
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
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