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The Trump Years- Every day something more shocking than the last!

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9 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Our? I'm as exceptional as I've ever been - maybe even more so.

Trump's still a dirt bag though, same as he ever was. This is just your bi-daily reminder of that fact.

The United States, like all nations,  is best judged by how our elected government chooses to behave. Right now that government is behaving very badly, and that reflects poorly on us as a nation. 

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1 hour ago, (HULK) said:

Facts down?

 

Real cigarettes are significantly worse for your health than electronic ones.

Based on what?  Are e-cigs dangerous at all?  

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Regarding vaping: I think it’s dangerous, I hope my kids never do it (it’s very prevalent in high school and college). 

And yet, in terms of making it illegal, there’s really a high level of double standard here, because cigarettes are even MORE dangerous. And not only would we never make them illegal, we export them around the world.

So I would have no problem with a surgeon general warning for electronic cigarettes (is there one already?) but as for making them illegal- I can’t be for it at this time. 

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9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Regarding vaping: I think it’s dangerous, I hope my kids never do it (it’s very prevalent in high school and college). 

And yet, in terms of making it illegal, there’s really a high level of double standard here, because cigarettes are even MORE dangerous. And not only would we never make them illegal, we export them around the world.

So I would have no problem with a surgeon general warning for electronic cigarettes (is there one already?) but as for making them illegal- I can’t be for it at this time. 

It's just the flavored ones.

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1 minute ago, Mile High said:

It's just the flavored ones.

Still though...doesn’t it strike you as hypocritical? 

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Quote

Ben Rhodes @brhodes

Obama eased sanctions to rollback Iran’s nuclear program. Trump now wants to ease sanctions to get a meeting to try and get back into the type of deal he scrapped. Brilliant dealmaking.

 

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
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11 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Still though...doesn’t it strike you as hypocritical? 

They want to discourage kids from using them. I suppose kids can still smoke the tobacco favored ones

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12 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Still though...doesn’t it strike you as hypocritical? 

It has been illegal to market tobacco products to minors for many years.    The flavored e-cigs are designed for and marketed to minors.   It's illegal under federal law, and flavored cigarettes (except menthol) were outlawed in 2009.  

Edited by -fish-
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4 hours ago, timschochet said:

I don't believe that all conservatives reject expertise, facts, and journalism. But many of those who support Trump do. In particular, most of those who openly support Trump in this forum ignore facts and spout false information most of the time. Some of them are bright people, which means they are either fooling themselves or trolling, or its a combination of the two. I used to try and figure out what their motivation is, now I find I no longer care.

You’re almost there - now just put them on ignore and/or never reply to them and we will be all set.  Hopefully others come around too.  

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1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:

Our? I'm as exceptional as I've ever been - maybe even more so.

Trump's still a dirt bag though, same as he ever was. This is just your bi-daily reminder of that fact.

Damn straight - I still get up every morning and piss excellence.

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Trump is crazy, but by making himself to be an #### on a daily basis, journalist fail to bring to the masses the real problems that beset previous presidents - things like Iran, North Korea, spending, etc, etc.  They are so focused on his asinine comments and the easy fodder that Trump never has to defend his policies beyond a few words.  I think all part of his ploy to get re-elected.  He will be able to say the US is better off now than 4 years ago, and whether it is or isn't, not many people will disagree with him because he's blinded the masses with ridiculous comments.  Whether or not this is intentional, who knows.

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39 minutes ago, Brunell4MVP said:

Trump is crazy, but by making himself to be an #### on a daily basis, journalist fail to bring to the masses the real problems that beset previous presidents - things like Iran, North Korea, spending, etc, etc.  They are so focused on his asinine comments and the easy fodder that Trump never has to defend his policies beyond a few words.  I think all part of his ploy to get re-elected.  He will be able to say the US is better off now than 4 years ago, and whether it is or isn't, not many people will disagree with him because he's blinded the masses with ridiculous comments.  Whether or not this is intentional, who knows.

I’ve thought this at different times and finally came to the conclusion he’s not smart enough or disciplined enough to pull this off.  He’s truly just incompetent and any positive side effects (for him) are just a coincidence.

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3 hours ago, timschochet said:

Still though...doesn’t it strike you as hypocritical? 

I thought this ban was because they are gearing these things to kids.

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1 minute ago, AAABatteries said:

I’ve thought this at different times and finally came to the conclusion he’s not smart enough or disciplined enough to pull this off.  He’s truly just incompetent and any positive side effects (for him) are just a coincidence.

He’s your bad stressed manager jumping from idea to idea (some good, but the vast majority bad), just hoping that something sticks.  This is especially true in foreign policy where he’s looking to make that one deal that will win him the Nobel.  Only problem is at this point everyone knows he’s the sucker and how to play him.  

Like your bad manager, his incompetence is funny for awhile, but at some point it crosses the line and directly starts hurting you.

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3 hours ago, Mile High said:

They want to discourage kids from using them. I suppose kids can still smoke the tobacco favored ones

From what little I have read about this it was mentioned that if they see kids shifting to the non flavored ones they will move on those next.

I have zero interest in this disgusting habit so a ban means nothing to me, but from what I have read this is one of the few times I’m agreeing with a Trump administration move.

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11 minutes ago, The General said:

if they see kids shifting to the non flavored ones they will move on those next.

Aren't e-cigarettes legal for adults? Not sure what they can do. 

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5 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

If used in the same amounts. I guess the questions are, have the electronic ones surpassed real ones in amount of intake per "smoker," what health consequences accrue if so, and if/how the electronicness or reduction in per dosage damage has increased utilization.

They're not the same. Cigarettes have you ingesting smoke and a slew of other chemicals. E-cigs have you ingesting nicotine, and 1 chemical, plus potentially flavoring.

 

If I smoked 20 Juul cartridges a day I'd still be better off than a pack a day smoker.

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4 hours ago, urbanhack said:

Based on what?  Are e-cigs dangerous at all?  

Significantly less so than regular cigarettes. I believe 95% less is what the research says.

Edited by (HULK)

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4 hours ago, timschochet said:

Regarding vaping: I think it’s dangerous, I hope my kids never do it (it’s very prevalent in high school and college). 

And yet, in terms of making it illegal, there’s really a high level of double standard here, because cigarettes are even MORE dangerous. And not only would we never make them illegal, we export them around the world.

So I would have no problem with a surgeon general warning for electronic cigarettes (is there one already?) but as for making them illegal- I can’t be for it at this time. 

Nicotine is highly addictive and they're not for kids. They're also not harmless. But, in terms of harm, a Juul habit is closer to say a Red Bull habit than a smoking habit. It's not great for you, but it's also not catastrophically terrible either.

 

My problem with this is two fold:

1) it's already abundantly clear that the people getting sick are getting sick from using unregulated cannabis vapes they're buying from drug dealers. This legislation has zero to do with what is actually going on, and I'm concerned some well times donations from tobacco lobbyists are driving the bus and using this opportunity to conflate the two issues.

2) nicotine vapes are not for kids, are illegal for kids, and shouldn't be marketed to kids. Flavors are just one aspect of that. Flavors also appeal to adults who use vapes to get off of cigarettes. By focusing on that you're likely driving a portion of that adult population back to cigarettes. There are other areas that could be focused on in terms of dealing with kids doing it, like cracking down on vendors selling them to minors, etc.

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10 minutes ago, (HULK) said:

Nicotine is highly addictive and they're not for kids. They're also not harmless. But, in terms of harm, a Juul habit is closer to say a Red Bull habit than a smoking habit. It's not great for you, but it's also not catastrophically terrible either.

 

My problem with this is two fold:

1) it's already abundantly clear that the people getting sick are getting sick from using unregulated cannabis vapes they're buying from drug dealers. This legislation has zero to do with what is actually going on, and I'm concerned some well times donations from tobacco lobbyists are driving the bus and using this opportunity to conflate the two issues.

2) nicotine vapes are not for kids, are illegal for kids, and shouldn't be marketed to kids. Flavors are just one aspect of that. Flavors also appeal to adults who use vapes to get off of cigarettes. By focusing on that you're likely driving a portion of that adult population back to cigarettes. There are other areas that could be focused on in terms of dealing with kids doing it, like cracking down on vendors selling them to minors, etc.

Thanks, these seem to be good points. 

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11 minutes ago, badmojo1006 said:

Trump interested in a 15 billion dollar bailout

What the everlasting #### is he thinking? Gets rid of Bolton and wants to be nicey nice.

This ranks up with one of his dumbest ideas ever. How are the Trumpettes going to rationalize this?

:wall::rolleyes::wall:

So funny. 

Would I approve of this? Of course. Just as I will approve when he finally does a deal with China. But in both cases, all he’s doing is cleaning up a mess he caused in the first place. 

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

So funny. 

Would I approve of this? Of course. Just as I will approve when he finally does a deal with China. But in both cases, all he’s doing is cleaning up a mess he caused in the first place. 

But you know this is a trial balloon. When the conservatives get up in arms about this, he will withdraw.

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28 minutes ago, badmojo1006 said:

How are the Trumpettes going to rationalize this?

:wall::rolleyes::wall:

That question implies there will be some sort of rational thought process behind it.

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Come on, people. You should know the drill by now.

Trump floats a dumb idea, conservatives freak out, and then suddenly Trump claims he was never going to do it in the first place and that the whole story is Fake News.

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31 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

Come on, people. You should know the drill by now.

Trump floats a dumb idea, conservatives freak out, and then suddenly Trump claims he was never going to do it in the first place and that the whole story is Fake News.

Not always, he did follow through with his dumb idea of running for President.

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10 hours ago, badmojo1006 said:

Trump interested in a 15 billion dollar bailout

What the everlasting #### is he thinking? Gets rid of Bolton and wants to be nicey nice.

This ranks up with one of his dumbest ideas ever. How are the Trumpettes going to rationalize this?

:wall::rolleyes::wall:

So...we pay them...to comply with a deal that they were complying with before Trump tore it up?

Art of the deal indeed.

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9 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

In all fairness, I would have had no idea what that shirts says based on the pic.  Granted, I’m no in a position where someone would take a selfie with me so maybe I would be more cautious and ask to see the shirt if I were her but I’m willing to assume she had no clue.

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15 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

In all fairness, I would have had no idea what that shirts says based on the pic.  Granted, I’m no in a position where someone would take a selfie with me so maybe I would be more cautious and ask to see the shirt if I were her but I’m willing to assume she had no clue.

That's always a pretty safe assumption.

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23 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

There was some parts of what Obama put in place that I really did not agree with.  There was way too much government control over private property.  I did like what he was trying to accomplish though.  I would like to see it revised and not completely done away with.  I would like to see Trump do something to help protect our environment more than he has.

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14 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

 I would like to see Trump do something to help protect our environment more than he has.

And the answer is none. None more black.

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TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICITS!1!1!1!1!1!1!1!

WE DID IT!1’qnqnqnnqnqnnq

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7 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

Now, the 62-year-old real estate broker, who supported the Republican approach to the economy, said he sees the party as pursuing a “pro-white” agenda and using black people like him as “political pawns.” The final straw for Cheadle came when he watched many Republicans defend Trump’s tweets telling four congresswomen of color, who are all American citizens, to go back to their countries, as well as defend the president’s attacks on Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., and his comments that Cummings’ hometown of Baltimore is “infested.”

Calling him out as "my African American" might have been a tell.

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The last time a President was this blatant (the prosecution of Daniel Ellsberg) the public recoiled and turned against that President even more than they were before. Let’s see if that happens this time. 

I would hope so, but I think most people don't give a ####

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16 minutes ago, badmojo1006 said:

I would hope so, but I think most people don't give a ####

I think most people find it upsetting the head of the FBI was caught lying after leaking documents.  

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1 minute ago, Don't Noonan said:

I think most people find it upsetting the head of the FBI was caught lying after leaking documents.  

You'd think more people would be upset about the actual effing president getting caught in multiple lies daily...wouldn't you?

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36 minutes ago, Ruffrodys05 said:

You'd think more people would be upset about the actual effing president getting caught in multiple lies daily...wouldn't you?

Link to Trump lying under oath?

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1 hour ago, Don't Noonan said:

Link to Trump lying under oath?

Quite the weak strawman there...that wasn’t what was asked.

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On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 5:16 PM, timschochet said:

@sho nuff

@FF Ninja

@SaintsInDome2006

I am urging you guys and any other Trump critics to stop posting in the Trump 2020 thread. The people who started that thread have written several times that they don't want any critics there. So let them have it. They are not worth having dialogues with any longer; perhaps they never were. They make ridiculous assertions, refuse to back them up, ignore genuine concerns, and spend most of their time trolling. So leave them alone; they're not worth it.

If one of those guys truly wants to have a serious discussion, they'll let us know by coming into this thread or one of the other more specific issue threads.

This thread is like crack to them. They are drawn to it and cannot stop posting here.

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44 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

Quite the weak strawman there...that wasn’t what was asked.

He was comparing McCabe to Trump.  Slam dunk.

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