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The Trump Years- Every day something more shocking than the last!

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 Chinese spying at mar a lago?

Sure seems like a lot of coincidences. One thing that gets me though- one guy simply went around a fence on the beach, and later another guy did the exact same thing. No extra security at that spot? The other thing that caught me were the two students from UofM that were stopped by the guard in their car and then continued on past after being told to turn around. Security found them 1/2 an hour later. That seems like a really long time to pass when someone ignores a security checkpoint. If these were indeed Chinese spies, I wonder wtf they’re up to. Would it be normal Intel to know what kind of defenses are installed where a world leader is spending time, just in case? 

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3 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

 Chinese spying at mar a lago?

Sure seems like a lot of coincidences. One thing that gets me though- one guy simply went around a fence on the beach, and later another guy did the exact same thing. No extra security at that spot? The other thing that caught me were the two students from UofM that were stopped by the guard in their car and then continued on past after being told to turn around. Security found them 1/2 an hour later. That seems like a really long time to pass when someone ignores a security checkpoint. If these were indeed Chinese spies, I wonder wtf they’re up to. Would it be normal Intel to know what kind of defenses are installed where a world leader is spending time, just in case? 

What I'm imagining

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Why are we paying for Ivanka to go to India?

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1 minute ago, urbanhack said:

Why are we paying for Ivanka to go to India?

Dude, you aren't. She totally isn't taking up a spot on Airforce One that could have gone to someone that had an inkling about where and what India is or wants

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17 hours ago, urbanhack said:

Why are we paying for Ivanka to go to India?

Love means never having to pay for your sari

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Coronavirus will just go away...

One of the most terrifying aspects of Trump's presidency is what would happen if this buffoon has to deal with an actual crisis not of his own making. Fingers crossed coronavirus isn't that crisis, cuz we are ####ed if it is.

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3 minutes ago, Herb said:

Coronavirus will just go away...

One of the most terrifying aspects of Trump's presidency is what would happen if this buffoon has to deal with an actual crisis not of his own making. Fingers crossed coronavirus isn't that crisis, cuz we are ####ed if it is.

Has this been posted yet?

From this ForeignPolicy.com Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response article:

“What would we do? How would my government respond if this virus spread across my country?”

For the United States, the answers are especially worrying because the government has intentionally rendered itself incapable. In 2018, the Trump administration fired the government’s entire pandemic response chain of command, including the White House management infrastructure. In numerous phone calls and emails with key agencies across the U.S. government, the only consistent response I encountered was distressed confusion. If the United States still has a clear chain of command for pandemic response, the White House urgently needs to clarify what it is —not just for the public but for the government itself, which largely finds itself in the dark.

In May 2018, Trump ordered the NSC’s entire global health security unit shut down, calling for reassignment of Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer and dissolution of his team inside the agency. The month before, then-White House National Security Advisor John Bolton pressured Ziemer’s DHS counterpart, Tom Bossert, to resign along with his team. Neither the NSC nor DHS epidemic teams have been replaced. The global health section of the CDC was so drastically cut in 2018 that much of its staff was laid off and the number of countries it was working in was reduced from 49 to merely 10. Meanwhile, throughout 2018, the U.S. Agency for International Development and its director, Mark Green, came repeatedly under fire from both the White House and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. And though Congress has so far managed to block Trump administration plans to cut the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps by 40 percent, the disease-fighting cadres have steadily eroded as retiring officers go unreplaced.

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 https://www.govexec.com/workforce/2020/02/white-house-confirms-its-purging-disloyal-employees-bowels-federal-government/163316/

The White House confirmed it is combing through federal agencies to ID employees not sufficiently loyal to Trump to facilitate their ouster. "There are a lot people ... taking action against this president and when we find them we will take appropriate action."

 

 

:( This is something out of the McCarthy era.

Somehow I think being on the verge of a pandemic is perhaps not the best time to remove people with government experience...

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15 minutes ago, squistion said:

 https://www.govexec.com/workforce/2020/02/white-house-confirms-its-purging-disloyal-employees-bowels-federal-government/163316/

The White House confirmed it is combing through federal agencies to ID employees not sufficiently loyal to Trump to facilitate their ouster. "There are a lot people ... taking action against this president and when we find them we will take appropriate action."

 

 

:( This is something out of the McCarthy era.

Somehow I think being on the verge of a pandemic is perhaps not the best time to remove people with government experience...

Swamp Cleaning.  Promises made. Promises kept.  

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21 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Swamp Cleaning.  Promises made. Promises kept.  

Disgusting.

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And here I thought "drain the swamp" has always meant getting rid of those loyal to party/individual/lobbyists over country/constituents....learn something new every day :mellow: 

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28 minutes ago, squistion said:

 https://www.govexec.com/workforce/2020/02/white-house-confirms-its-purging-disloyal-employees-bowels-federal-government/163316/

The White House confirmed it is combing through federal agencies to ID employees not sufficiently loyal to Trump to facilitate their ouster. "There are a lot people ... taking action against this president and when we find them we will take appropriate action."

 

 

:( This is something out of the McCarthy era.

Somehow I think being on the verge of a pandemic is perhaps not the best time to remove people with government experience...

I typed something snarky.  I typed something expressing my extreme anger.  I just can't post any of it except to say it's really sad and disappointing.  This is our reality and it's up to us to do something about it.   

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40 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Swamp Cleaning.  Promises made. Promises kept.  

I feel comforted in the knowledge that loyalty to the president is more important than competence. Its certainly served the CDC well, hasn't it?

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1 hour ago, Mookie said:

I typed something snarky.  I typed something expressing my extreme anger.  I just can't post any of it except to say it's really sad and disappointing.  This is our reality and it's up to us to do something about it.   

As shown by a post above, his fervent supporters think anyone who questions Trump needs to go.

Weird times. 

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1 hour ago, knowledge dropper said:

Swamp Cleaning.  Promises made. Promises kept.  

You realize this is loyal to Trump, not the country right? 

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1 hour ago, knowledge dropper said:

Swamp Cleaning.  Promises made. Promises kept.  

Please document which of them were corrupt with facts please.  

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9 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

You realize this is loyal to Trump, not the country right? 

You realize that loyal to Trump trumps loyal to country to his fervent supporters right?

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2 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

You realize that loyal to Trump trumps loyal to country to his fervent supporters right?

I don't.  Seems ill advised.

Also, I don't recognize that news source in the link so am giving it the same credibility as I see from Trump supporters that buttress their opinions by quoting www.totallynotaconspiracytrumpisgreat.org

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6 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

You realize that loyal to Trump trumps loyal to country to his fervent supporters right?

Honestly starting to believe that among the most fervent the word to use is probably equals

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2 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

Swamp Cleaning.

The new Dir ODNI has been on other countries’ payroll. There are swamps and there are bubbling cesspools.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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9 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

The new Dir ODNI has been on other countries’ payroll. There are swamps and there are bubbling cesspools.

Acting, I suppose

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37 minutes ago, msommer said:

Acting, I suppose

Yes of course, he's acting for the acting, and the actually nominated and confirmed Director was fired.

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3 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

Swamp Cleaning.  Promises made. Promises kept.  

Requiring that an employee swear a minimal oath to follow and defend the constitution and the laws of a particular state likely passed constitutional muster. 
 

Requiring a person swear an oath to a particular person is grossly un-American. I’d suggest that firing somebody for not affirming loyalty to a particular person is right there with that. 

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35 minutes ago, Zow said:

Requiring that an employee swear a minimal oath to follow and defend the constitution and the laws of a particular state likely passed constitutional muster. 
 

Requiring a person swear an oath to a particular person is grossly un-American. I’d suggest that firing somebody for not affirming loyalty to a particular person is right there with that. 

No loyalty oath. Basically, if you are some Democrat political employee that is actively doing political things (e.g campaigning, volunteering, donating), then you have a red flag and have to hit the bricks.  In my experience, this is pretty standard procedure when a Dem takes office.  Republicans tend to be more forgiving.   
 

 

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2 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

No loyalty oath. Basically, if you are some Democrat political employee that is actively doing political things (e.g campaigning, volunteering, donating), then you have a red flag and have to hit the bricks.  In my experience, this is pretty standard procedure when a Dem takes office.  Republicans tend to be more forgiving.   
 

 

Firing somebody for actively doing political things would seem to run grossly afoul of the first amendment in most circumstances. 

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5 minutes ago, Zow said:

Firing somebody for actively doing political things would seem to run grossly afoul of the first amendment in most circumstances. 

Some government jobs have it as a condition of employment.  Political positions are also fair game in many instances. 

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2 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

No loyalty oath. Basically, if you are some Democrat political employee that is actively doing political things (e.g campaigning, volunteering, donating), then you have a red flag and have to hit the bricks.  In my experience, this is pretty standard procedure when a Dem takes office.  Republicans tend to be more forgiving.   
 

 

The article suggests their review goes to career civil service employees too, which is far from standard procedure under any administration post-Pendleton Act.

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42 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Some government jobs have it as a condition of employment.  Political positions are also fair game in many instances. 

I agree with your first sentence. Generally though that’s probably gotta be a pretty narrowly tailored clause. 

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All of this belongs in the dictatorship thread.  Again, this isn't how things are supposed to work. 

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3 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

No loyalty oath. Basically, if you are some Democrat political employee that is actively doing political things (e.g campaigning, volunteering, donating), then you have a red flag and have to hit the bricks.  In my experience, this is pretty standard procedure when a Dem takes office.  Republicans tend to be more forgiving.   
 

 

No, no, no, no, a thousand times, no. This hasn't been standard procedure ever. 

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14 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

No, no, no, no, a thousand times, no. This hasn't been standard procedure ever. 

I work in government.  You participate in a campaign you are toast.  Just depends on your position 

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11 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

I work in government.  You participate in a campaign you are toast.  Just depends on your position 

Do you have any idea how many times Kellyanne Conway has been officially found in violation of the Hatch Act?

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15 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

No loyalty oath. Basically, if you are some Democrat political employee that is actively doing political things (e.g campaigning, volunteering, donating), then you have a red flag and have to hit the bricks.  In my experience, this is pretty standard procedure when a Dem takes office.  Republicans tend to be more forgiving.   
 

 

Can you show your work? I’m simply not sure this is true.

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25 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Can you show your work? I’m simply not sure this is true.

I’m not sure how I can link 25+ years of personal experience.  Sorry.  
 

ETA.  That’s why many in civil service are smart to Register as an independent even though they aren’t. I worked for one agency head that knew all party affiliations on day one.  Boff Sidezzz do it.  

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3 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

I’m not sure how I can link 28 years of personal experience.  Sorry.  

I think if someone loses their job because they post that AOC “needs a round” it’s deserved. If someone loses their job because they said “trump is a moron” on Facebook (or fbgs) I think that’s probably illegal. If whoever suggested Jr and Ivanka is should visit covid19 patients worked in government and  had repercussions because of what they implied it could possibly be warranted (I’m more of a Bird law guy so this may not be true, but I would understand it.) If someone is fired simply because they are a Republican or Democrat is definitely wrong. There are instances where someone serves at the pleasure of the office, and those are legitimate. I don’t know that anyone is being fired for that, or for “not being loyal.” I don’t think it’s ok for either party.
 

Would you be willing to give an example of your experiences? You don’t have to give the whole 28 years, just an instance where someone was fired based on political affiliation (or clarify exactly what you are accusing dems that take office of doing?) You may be right, and it’s hard to measure against what this administration has just begun doing. It’s a pretty bold accusation for either side to make.

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8 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

I think if someone loses their job because they post that AOC “needs a round” it’s deserved. If someone loses their job because they said “trump is a moron” on Facebook (or fbgs) I think that’s probably illegal. If whoever suggested Jr and Ivanka is should visit covid19 patients worked in government and  had repercussions because of what they implied it could possibly be warranted (I’m more of a Bird law guy so this may not be true, but I would understand it.) If someone is fired simply because they are a Republican or Democrat is definitely wrong. There are instances where someone serves at the pleasure of the office, and those are legitimate. I don’t know that anyone is being fired for that, or for “not being loyal.” I don’t think it’s ok for either party.
 

Would you be willing to give an example of your experiences? You don’t have to give the whole 28 years, just an instance where someone was fired based on political affiliation (or clarify exactly what you are accusing dems that take office of doing?) You may be right, and it’s hard to measure against what this administration has just begun doing. It’s a pretty bold accusation for either side to make.

It’s unlawful to fire a civil servant for partisan reasons.  Civil service employees can file grievances with the Meeit Systems Protection Board if there are violations of this law.  Of course, Trump has basically hollowed out that agency so anything goes these days.  But that hasn’t been true in the past.

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35 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

It’s unlawful to fire a civil servant for partisan reasons.  Civil service employees can file grievances with the Meeit Systems Protection Board if there are violations of this law.  Of course, Trump has basically hollowed out that agency so anything goes these days.  But that hasn’t been true in the past.

Not all jobs people consider civil service are actually protected.   Protected jobs are normally safe, but there are ways around that by job abolishment or office closures.  

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39 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

It’s unlawful to fire a civil servant for partisan reasons.  Civil service employees can file grievances with the Meeit Systems Protection Board if there are violations of this law.  Of course, Trump has basically hollowed out that agency so anything goes these days.  But that hasn’t been true in the past.

Exactly 

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I don't remember where we "discussed" the terrorist attack by Saudi Nationals on the US Naval Base in Pensacola, so I'm just going to plop this in here.  They're back :wall: 

https://www.wptv.com/news/state/saudi-military-students-resume-us-flight-training?fbclid=IwAR0mKqGnPNqpkI8lt39NuNBPqHY-pD3oK3w2Pad2a9W3S6j1l6IvyBc-4NY

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1 hour ago, knowledge dropper said:

Not all jobs people consider civil service are actually protected.   Protected jobs are normally safe, but there are ways around that by job abolishment or office closures.  

You are arguing in bad faith.  You are taking a specific situation and trying to imply that it happens more broadly. 

Yes, political appointees (including Schedule C politicals) can be let go.  But "typical" federal employees can't.  And no, there is no great history of protected federal civil servants being fired by "both sides" because of political speech. 

We really need to have some standards for this board. 

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20 minutes ago, Sweet J said:

You are arguing in bad faith.  You are taking a specific situation and trying to imply that it happens more broadly. 

Yes, political appointees (including Schedule C politicals) can be let go.  But "typical" federal employees can't.  And no, there is no great history of protected federal civil servants being fired by "both sides" because of political speech. 

We really need to have some standards for this board. 

I am going on MY experience.  No bad faith.  Attitudes like yours is why this board is on its last legs.  Be more excellent to other posters.  

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12 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

I am going on MY experience.  No bad faith.  Attitudes like yours is why this board is on its last legs.  Be more excellent to other posters.  

Right but you haven’t expounded on your experience other than “it’s too vast to get into.” Enlighten us.

Edited by Snorkelson
Shouldn’t be hard, it happens all the time with the dems right?

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3 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Right but you haven’t expounded on your experience other than “it’s too vast to get into.” Enlighten us.

One example, One party had established a level of management for people that had worked on a campaign. Within a year of the office changing hands the positions were abolished.  Based upon their tenure or territorial rights they were put on the streets or in jobs with no real role.  

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I have been a government employee for over 20 years and work with people who have all sorts of differing political views, including many elected officials from both sides.   I have yet to see a government employee fired for their political affiliation or political comments made at work, in private, or on Facebook.  I've seen employees fired for divulging confidential information, undermining the goals and objectives of a department, and harassing other employees, but never for not being "loyal" to an elected official.

In my experience, employees who are devotedly loyal to elected individuals don't last long once those elected officials leave office because the "loyalty", if such a thing can be quantified, belongs to the government organization and the laws that entity operates under.  When an employee hitches their wagon to a particular individual, that employee has often demonstrated an inability to further the broader goals of the political subdivision in favor of a specific, individualized agenda.       

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10 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Trump supporters losing their minds because Garth Brooks is supporting Sanders. 

 

Barry Sanders

 

:lmao:

Those can't be real.

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