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Yenrub

2017 New York football Giants thread

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If you did not watch this game don't let the score fool you ...it was a completely one sided blowout 29-3 in the first half. The Giants defense is sick !! JP if he stays healthy could be in for a career season. He looks bigger, stronger and faster than last year, understandably so, and at 28 he could be coming into his prime. Landon Collins is all over the place and playing with even more confidence and experience. 

OL - John Jerry was manhandled on play that led to Elis' Int in the red zone. He was pulled for Brett Jones who was a significant improvement especially in the run game ... he may steal the RG spot and backup Center. Flowers had a boneheaded false start but other than that didn't see much from him good or bad. The second O'line was awful. 

RB - Perkins had a couple of very nice runs but doesn't seem to be able to create anything on his own. Once again Gallman looked like the best RB on the team, he had a stretch where every time he touched the ball he looked like he got at least 3 or 4 yards ... he runs hard, creates something out of nothing and he can catch ...also had a nice blitz pickup. 

QB - Contrary to what I read ...Eli Manning looked sharp as hell. He was putting balls in spots where only the WR could catch them and even the incompletions were hitting receivers in the hands despite tight coverages. Aside from the Int that was clearly on Jerry I did not see Eli throw a bad ball. Backup QBs didnt have much of a chance with the 2nd team line being so bad. Davis had a nice scramble a throw to Tye for 18 yds.

Dline - JPP is sick (Saftey, sack and blocked pass) , Snacks was great. The downside - heard Bromley injured his knee but not sure how bad. 

LB - Didn't see much out of the LBs ... Goodson did his thing and Casillas ran down a scrambling QB for a sack.  

TE - Evan Engram was great with 2 receptions for 1st downs and a great seal block that helped Darkwa walk into the end zone for a TD. He did drop 2 or 3 passes in tight coverage that would have been difficult catches.  Ellison didn't do anything, I'm not even sure if he played. rookie Fullback Shane Smith played a similar role and also had a nice block on the Darkwa TD. Howard Cross said that they have been impressed with Smith who was a Linebacker in College.

WRs - rookie Rudolph, Shepard and Lewis were all very good in the absence of OBJ and Marshall. Rudulph reached over the head of a defender to steal a pass that should have easily been intercepted than made a move and took it 50 yards. Lewis dropped a catchable ball that hit him in the hands, again in tight coverage, but made up for it with a 4th and 3 reception to the 1 yard line. Eli threaded 2 defenders on the play and Lewis with great concentration knowing he was going to get hit. 

DBs - Landon Collins with pick 6 and a blocked pass, Janoris jankins rocked a ball lose that Donte Deayon took to the house for another pick 6. Eli Apple got away with a big PI but looks pretty good. He's added like 10lbs of muscle and you can see it ...but I heard he injured his ankle ...dont know the extent of it.

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On 8/22/2017 at 7:27 PM, Yenrub said:

I disagree with your 1st point. The interior line looks like crap, they can't run block worth a damn! Flowers has been ok so far with his pass blocking (he still has a long way to go). I would like to see them try Fluker at RG instead of Jerry

I agree with everything else 

I'm with you here.  Flowers was late on a pick-up that led to a sack, but other than that I thought the tackle play was an improvement over last game.  Jerry looked terrible (both pass and run) and it wasn't surprising to see him pulled. I did find it interesting that Jones was pulled for Fluker in the first half while the rest of the 1st string line remained in place.  I guess they wanted Fluker to get some experience with the 1st line, but to have Jones come in and out that quickly was odd.

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18 hours ago, monk said:

If you did not watch this game don't let the score fool you ...it was a completely one sided blowout 29-3 in the first half. The Giants defense is sick !! JP if he stays healthy could be in for a career season. He looks bigger, stronger and faster than last year, understandably so, and at 28 he could be coming into his prime. Landon Collins is all over the place and playing with even more confidence and experience.

Contrary to consensus preseason ranking for D/ST, I see a dominant year for NY Giants defense.  They absolutely shredded Jets' offense in 1st half especially upon feasting on Hackenberg's QB competency.  Now they just need to stay healthy throughout season this year and here's hoping that Eli Apple's ankle injury isn't serious. 

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13 minutes ago, Aznflyer14 said:

Contrary to consensus preseason ranking for D/ST, I see a dominant year for NY Giants defense.  They absolutely shredded Jets' offense in 1st half especially upon feasting on Hackenberg's QB competency.  Now they just need to stay healthy throughout season this year and here's hoping that Eli Apple's ankle injury isn't serious. 

Giants DEF could be great this year but let's be real - Hackenberg is not worthy of a backup QB spot on most teams so let's not gauge their success against him.

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2 hours ago, kentric said:

I'm with you here.  Flowers was late on a pick-up that led to a sack, but other than that I thought the tackle play was an improvement over last game.  Jerry looked terrible (both pass and run) and it wasn't surprising to see him pulled. I did find it interesting that Jones was pulled for Fluker in the first half while the rest of the 1st string line remained in place.  I guess they wanted Fluker to get some experience with the 1st line, but to have Jones come in and out that quickly was odd.

Jones played the rest of the 1st quarter after the John Jerry fiasco then took over center in the 2nd half.

Fluker played the entire 2nd Quarter ... I'm not sure about the second half but either are improvement over Jerry.

 

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Had a chance to check out the replay of the Jets game this afternoon

It goes without saying that the defense looked dominate, sure it was against a bad offense but that is what they are supposed to do to a bad offense.

I liked what I saw from the OL once Jones came in for Jerry. Eli seemed to have plenty of time in the pocket. They were getting chunks of yards in the passing game. The run game was decent too. It was nice to see against a better than average defensive front.

I didn’t like that they had to settle for a FG on the 1st drive that Jones took over at RG. They got down to the 6 and ran three straight shotgun passes. I would have liked to see them try to run the ball at least once down there on that drive. The pass to Rudolph on the drive is probably a TD of that was the bigger Brandon Marshall.

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13 hours ago, Yenrub said:

Had a chance to check out the replay of the Jets game this afternoon

It goes without saying that the defense looked dominate, sure it was against a bad offense but that is what they are supposed to do to a bad offense.

I liked what I saw from the OL once Jones came in for Jerry. Eli seemed to have plenty of time in the pocket. They were getting chunks of yards in the passing game. The run game was decent too. It was nice to see against a better than average defensive front.

Quote

I didn’t like that they had to settle for a FG on the 1st drive that Jones took over at RG. They got down to the 6 and ran three straight shotgun passes. I would have liked to see them try to run the ball at least once down there on that drive.

The pass to Rudolph on the drive is probably a TD of that was the bigger Brandon Marshall.

To me this is going o be the Giants biggest problem with the RBs that they have. I would not feel good at all about giving Perkins Goal line carries. 

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The rookie kicker with a clutch 48 yard game winner last night. Seems like a pretty impressive kick under pressure for him.

Also looks like Geno locked up the backup spot

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Notables from last night that may have really helped themselves 

  • Lacosse (TE)
  • Rudolph (WR)
  • Geno (QB) 
  • Vereen (RB)
  • Darkwa (RB)
  • Rosas (K)  

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Giants waived TE Will Tye.

Tye appeared in all 16 games last season, starting 10, and registered a combined 90 catches for 859 yards and four touchdowns over the past two seasons. The Giants made it a point to overhaul their tight end spot this year. Tye couldn't block and provided very little playmaking ability. He was running with the backups all summer and fumbled multiple times in the preseason finale.

Pretty much expected with Engram and Ellison around and Giants high on LaCosse. Jerell Adams isn't the strongest blocker, but Tye makes him look like a wall.

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What's up with the D?

I've noticed some buzz here and there.  Homers?

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55 minutes ago, monk said:

They look sick ! Big play makers and lots of depth ! 3 x pick 6's in last 2 weeks. 

Worthy of a target to start the season?  and if not, who are you targeting and why?

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Profootball Focus Oline Ranking for 2016 -

20. NEW YORK GIANTS (20)

Top overall grade: LG Justin Pugh, 85.1 (No. 16)

Top pass-blocking grade: C Weston Richburg, 89.3 (No. 17)

Top run-blocking grade: LG Justin Pugh, 84.9 (No. 15)

The Giants may have fielded the worst pair of tackles in the game this season, but the interior trio was solid, particularly when LG Justin Pugh was in the lineup. Ereck Flowers began the season with three solid games, surrendering just five total QB pressures and no hits or sacks over that time, suggesting that he had turned a corner from his ugly rookie season—but then he went in the tank, and was horrendous down the stretch. After the aforementioned three games, he allowed 54 total QB pressures in his final 13 games, with 10 penalties adding to his woes. On the right side, Bobby Hart surrendered 46 total QB pressures himself, and if anything, those numbers flattered his performance; when he was beaten, it tended to be immediately and result in severe pressure.

My Take - The Giants are returning the same 2 tackles that graded as the worst pair of tackles in the league last season and they have not improved the tackle depth much, if at all. Wheeler (LT) has no experience (R) but Fluker who has played RT in the past may be an upgrade over Bobby Hart if needed. On the plus side Flowers and Hart may be the youngest pair of tackles in the league. They are both only 23 years old and entering their 3rd season as starters. The Giants have improved their interior line depth with the addition of Fluker (RG) and the health and experience of Brett Jones (LG/C). I think overall the Giants O'line will be improved with the added depth and experience and the addition of a stable of better blocking TEs and a blocking fullback will help their run game significantly.

Edited by monk

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On 9/1/2017 at 9:55 AM, monk said:

Notables from last night that may have really helped themselves 

  • Lacosse (TE)
  • Rudolph (WR)
  • Geno (QB) 
  • Vereen (RB)
  • Darkwa (RB)
  • Rosas (K)  

Curious if you guys see any strong potential for one of these two to take over if Perkins doesn't do well?

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Evan Engram is going to make teams respect him , thus forcing them to keep a safety in coverage and out of the box, and that will open up the running lanes for Perkins...

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12 hours ago, GoBirds said:

Curious if you guys see any strong potential for one of these two to take over if Perkins doesn't do well?

  • Vereen is always going to be the 3rd down / receiving back ... if he stays healthy he has ppr value
  • Darkwa is the biggest of the giants backs so he may see goal-line and short yardage ... upside 6-7 TDs
  • I personally think Gallman is the the best back and long term answer but he needs to add about 10 pounds which would make him a good size back ... he has that frame for it.
  • I don't luv Perkins ...he doesn't have any standout qualities I think his upside is like 170 carries 700 yds and 5 tds
  • Giants don't have and won't have a featured back capable of 250 carries until Gallman puts on 10 lbs 
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Ok, I tried to remain hopeful, that was crushing. The OLine hasn't shown any improvement. This offense misses OBJ badly. And I'm just about over McAdoo's favorite child offense. Ugh. 40 yards? That was miserable. There isn't a QB alive, dead, or to be born that can throw behind that line. He barely has time to make one read before the defense is all over him. This is shameful. 

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, IrishTwinkie said:

Ok, I tried to remain hopeful, that was crushing. The OLine hasn't shown any improvement. This offense misses OBJ badly. And I'm just about over McAdoo's favorite child offense. Ugh. 40 yards? That was miserable. There isn't a QB alive, dead, or to be born that can throw behind that line. He barely has time to make one read before the defense is all over him. This is shameful. 

 

 

 

 

I thought the O'line looked decent in the 1st half ... Eli was terrible and Perkins has to go.

If you ask me the 1st drive of the 2nd half clearly showed that Perkins problem. They moved the ball great when he was out and nothing when he was in. He had no right being in there inside the 5 ... that has to be Darkwa

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Don't know if it will make a difference with the OL, but it would be interesting to see if Gallman can give the running game a spark. Maybe he will be active next week.

Edited by zamboni

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Well, my feeling is simply this, no one is going to look good behind that line. I hate to say this, but Jerry learned his lesson and drafted OL and its paid off. He had a decent QB, but he was always running for his life. Now the OL is solid and its paying off. I wish Reese would learn this very same lesson. Eli has happy feet. Hell, I think any quarterback would. He has no time and no confidence he'll get time. There are times he can't even complete the first read before he needs to be dodging for his life. One of these times he isn't getting up. I fear this is how Eli's career ends, running scared behind a sieve OLine.

 

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Darkwa was great with the few touches he saw and Vereen did his thing with 9 catches. Perkins was horrible and honestly doesn't even belong on the roster.

They should replace Perkins with a big short Yardage/goal line back and let Darkwa and Gallman split the carries.

Eli was terrible in the first half but partly because Perkins can't do anything. Eli Apple is another player that is barely rosterable...What an absolute waste of a top 10 pick 

Brandon Marshall should be thoroughly embarrassed by his performance 

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11 minutes ago, IrishTwinkie said:

Well, my feeling is simply this, no one is going to look good behind that line. I hate to say this, but Jerry learned his lesson and drafted OL and its paid off. He had a decent QB, but he was always running for his life. Now the OL is solid and its paying off. I wish Reese would learn this very same lesson. Eli has happy feet. Hell, I think any quarterback would. He has no time and no confidence he'll get time. There are times he can't even complete the first read before he needs to be dodging for his life. One of these times he isn't getting up. I fear this is how Eli's career ends, running scared behind a sieve OLine.

 

Re-watch the game ... the line was not that bad ! Eli usually had plenty of time to throw

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I was impressed with how well the defense held up last night. They did very well considering they were playing against 2 offenses last night. Held Dallas to 19, should have been 15 because the Witten TD was set up by a HORRIBLE pass interference call.

The offense was simply offensive. The right side of the OL was terrible. Eli was inaccurate and Marshall looked like he quit. Play calling was also bad. No way should a team throw the ball 38 times and run only 12 times in a low scoring game like that regardless of how few yards you are gaining on with the run.

I think they need to sit John Jerry and start Jones at RG.

I think Darkwa should start over Perkins.

McAdoo can't have a 3 to 1 pass to run ratio especially when Odell isn't active (shouldn't have it even when he is active) 

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It's funny because Flowers wasn't too bad in this game, John Jerry was GODAWFUL. This tweet sums it up were Eli got sacked before the O-Line could even introduce themselves... LITERALLY!

 

https://twitter.com/YahooSports/status/907043263239958528?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FYahooSports%2Fstatus%2F907043263239958528

 

Like, you watch the play and you're like "who was the guy who whiffed on the block" and then you see ... #77 John Jerry, Old Miss". This team needs to actually invest in the O-Line, Eli can't throw anything deep and he's getting Happy Feet and feeling pressure when none exists.

Edited by The Frankman

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Flowers did appear to improve. but that was only cause he couldn't really get any worse. He was still light years away from being good. Was he the weakest link on the line, no. 

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I thought the Giants O-line was terrible (although missed the third quarter), with Jerry not being able to pick up stunts and Hart seemingly getting beaten with the edge rush on a consistent basis.  I didn't think Flowers did that badly.  Well, PFF says that the line didn't do badly at all.

http://giantswire.usatoday.com/2017/09/12/new-york-giants-offensive-line-not-dominated-loss-pff/

In their Giants correspondence points e-mail, PFF shared the following:

RG John Jerry allowed two sacks and two hurries on 45 pass blocking attempts (73.4 overall), but it was LT Ereck Flowers who earned the lowest overall grade among offensive lineman (53.4 – 39th among tackles on the week). Flowers allowed a sack and a hurry. RT Bobby Hart allowed three pressures, but still finished with a 77.5 overall grade – ranked 16th among tackles on the week.

Weston Richburg (78.8 – fourth among centers) and Justin Pugh (78.1 – 15th among guards) were great as usual for the Giants offensive line, neither surrendered a pressure on 45 pass blocking attempts and performed well in the run game.

The Giants did not get dominated up front. Richburg, Pugh, Jerry, and Hart all had run block grades above 76.4 – running the ball just 12 times total, Giants RBs failed to force a missed tackle. However, they were not given much of an opportunity with so few attempts.

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My thoughts:

                    Eli had time to throw,I'm not sure what his issues are. Being careful not to throw picks? Rather he threw a couple and took shots downfield,if they put 20 points up they can beat anybody.

                   Running game is awful,if no holes are being opened they need a back who can run over people. Put Sean Peyton on speed dial and take a stab at A.P. He doesn't like sharing in Nawlins'.

                   Defense is good,real good,better than last year. They spent the first half on the field and still did a nice job. Given a little offensive production the D can be awesome.

                   We need OBJ back a.s.a.p.

                   Good thing is it's one week and it's just week one.

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23 hours ago, kentric said:

I thought the Giants O-line was terrible (although missed the third quarter), with Jerry not being able to pick up stunts and Hart seemingly getting beaten with the edge rush on a consistent basis.  I didn't think Flowers did that badly.  Well, PFF says that the line didn't do badly at all.

http://giantswire.usatoday.com/2017/09/12/new-york-giants-offensive-line-not-dominated-loss-pff/

In their Giants correspondence points e-mail, PFF shared the following:

RG John Jerry allowed two sacks and two hurries on 45 pass blocking attempts (73.4 overall), but it was LT Ereck Flowers who earned the lowest overall grade among offensive lineman (53.4 – 39th among tackles on the week). Flowers allowed a sack and a hurry. RT Bobby Hart allowed three pressures, but still finished with a 77.5 overall grade – ranked 16th among tackles on the week.

Weston Richburg (78.8 – fourth among centers) and Justin Pugh (78.1 – 15th among guards) were great as usual for the Giants offensive line, neither surrendered a pressure on 45 pass blocking attempts and performed well in the run game.

The Giants did not get dominated up front. Richburg, Pugh, Jerry, and Hart all had run block grades above 76.4 – running the ball just 12 times total, Giants RBs failed to force a missed tackle. However, they were not given much of an opportunity with so few attempts.

"Giants RBs failed to force a missed tackle." This is not true ... Look at the highlights link below

  • @ 1:00 Darkwa had a beautiful jump cut on his 12 yard run
  • Not in the Highlights but 3-1-NYG 19 (:50) 26-O.Darkwa left tackle to NYG 23 for 4 yards ... Dallas made contact at the line of scrimmage and Darkwa plowed forward for 3-4 hard fought yards
  • Not a run play but to point out how bad Eli sux @ 1:52 Look at how open Darkwa gets when Eli, who appears to be looking right at him, takes a sack.   

http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/Highlights-Cowboys-19-Giants-3/4fcce3ef-01ef-41b9-90e0-0c1a5488728c

 

 

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Agreed. 

I am kinda over the whole Giants travel to Dallas for SNF to start every season too. 

 

Looking forward to the game. Hopefully Jackrabbit can go tonite. (I've not looked at any reports today) And yeah, we need OBJ on the field too. 

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

I can't believe I am typing this but I think Flowers has gotten worse 

I was clearly wrong when I said it wasn't possible Flowers could get any worse. I think there is less than a 50 percent chance that Eli survives the season behind this line. I know we are going to hear about his game starting streak every game this season. Every time is going to sound like the classic announcer jinks when some kicker has made some bazillion-ly number of bunny kicks in a row. Eli got crushed a couple of times due to horrible play by the Oline. Again. I shudder to think whats going to happen vs an actually good defensive front. 

And whoever published the idea this was a superbowl team? They need to stop covering sports. 8 straight games without scoring more than 20 points. A stunning 12 out of 19 games without scoring more that 20. In that time, their highest output has been 28 points. What possibly could make someone think this offense improved over the offseason?

I do think the Defense is good. Perhaps great. But with out any help, its not going to show up anywhere. Vernon, in particular, is a beast. 

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6 minutes ago, IrishTwinkie said:

I was clearly wrong when I said it wasn't possible Flowers could get any worse. I think there is less than a 50 percent chance that Eli survives the season behind this line. I know we are going to hear about his game starting streak every game this season. Every time is going to sound like the classic announcer jinks when some kicker has made some bazillion-ly number of bunny kicks in a row. Eli got crushed a couple of times due to horrible play by the Oline. Again. I shudder to think whats going to happen vs an actually good defensive front. 

And whoever published the idea this was a superbowl team? They need to stop covering sports. 8 straight games without scoring more than 20 points. A stunning 12 out of 19 games without scoring more that 20. In that time, their highest output has been 28 points. What possibly could make someone think this offense improved over the offseason?

I do think the Defense is good. Perhaps great. But with out any help, its not going to show up anywhere. Vernon, in particular, is a beast. 

Agreed. I saw some chuckleheads calling this a SB team in the offseason. I never understood it knowing this O-line was a problem that was strangely ignored by Reese and Co.

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30 minutes ago, lod001 said:

0-7 start is a strong possibility. Beckham and Marshall will be bouncing off the walls.

Marshall has no right to be running his mouth. About anything. Eli put the ball right in his hands, at a critical point in the game, and he straight up dropped it. To think that Howard Cross used to be called "Stone Hands" among my set of Giant-fan-friends. Marshall has taken over that tag, perhaps for ever. Zero excuse. And zero right to run his mouth.

ETA: I agree that 0-7 is completely within the realm of possible outcomes. Heck, I am have trouble seeing how this team can win any game. They'll luck their way into a 4-12, 2-14 type of season. The team has talent to be better, except on the OLine. 

Edited by IrishTwinkie

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Just now, IrishTwinkie said:

Marshall has no right to be running his mouth. About anything. Eli put the ball right in his hands, at a critical point in the game, and he straight up dropped it. To think that Howard Cross used to be called "Stone Hands" among my set of Giant-fan-friends. Marshall has taken over that tag, perhaps for ever. Zero excuse. And zero right to run his mouth.

 

Not right now because of that horrible drop but give it a few more losses and no drops and he will go off.

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Maybe I have my rose-colored glassed on, but I actually thought that the Giants offensive gameplan was working rather well for a time.  Sacks killed the gameplan.  That holding penalty at the 1-2 yard line was a killer.

On a lighter note, it looks like the honeymoon is truly over.  McAdoo called out Eli.

"The New York Giants' comeback attempt was derailed by what coach Ben McAdoo called "sloppy quarterback play" by Eli Manning near the goal line in the third quarter of a 24-10 loss to the Detroit Lions."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20750712/ben-mcadoo-new-york-giants-says-onus-key-mistake-eli-manning

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21 minutes ago, kentric said:

Maybe I have my rose-colored glassed on, but I actually thought that the Giants offensive gameplan was working rather well for a time.  Sacks killed the gameplan.  That holding penalty at the 1-2 yard line was a killer.

On a lighter note, it looks like the honeymoon is truly over.  McAdoo called out Eli.

"The New York Giants' comeback attempt was derailed by what coach Ben McAdoo called "sloppy quarterback play" by Eli Manning near the goal line in the third quarter of a 24-10 loss to the Detroit Lions."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20750712/ben-mcadoo-new-york-giants-says-onus-key-mistake-eli-manning

McAdoo is just looking for a scapegoat to take some of the heat off of himself. Poor play calling and a horrible OL that wasn't addressed in the draft or free agency contributed to the loss also.

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14 minutes ago, beerbuff said:

McAdoo is just looking for a scapegoat to take some of the heat off of himself. Poor play calling and a horrible OL that wasn't addressed in the draft or free agency contributed to the loss also.

Not sure how much of that is on the coach and how much of that is on the GM.  For all we know, maybe McAdoo asked for some help and he was told that the money would be spent elsewhere.

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