Yenrub

2017 New York football Giants thread

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Profootball Focus Oline Ranking for 2016 -

20. NEW YORK GIANTS (20)

Top overall grade: LG Justin Pugh, 85.1 (No. 16)

Top pass-blocking grade: C Weston Richburg, 89.3 (No. 17)

Top run-blocking grade: LG Justin Pugh, 84.9 (No. 15)

The Giants may have fielded the worst pair of tackles in the game this season, but the interior trio was solid, particularly when LG Justin Pugh was in the lineup. Ereck Flowers began the season with three solid games, surrendering just five total QB pressures and no hits or sacks over that time, suggesting that he had turned a corner from his ugly rookie season—but then he went in the tank, and was horrendous down the stretch. After the aforementioned three games, he allowed 54 total QB pressures in his final 13 games, with 10 penalties adding to his woes. On the right side, Bobby Hart surrendered 46 total QB pressures himself, and if anything, those numbers flattered his performance; when he was beaten, it tended to be immediately and result in severe pressure.

My Take - The Giants are returning the same 2 tackles that graded as the worst pair of tackles in the league last season and they have not improved the tackle depth much, if at all. Wheeler (LT) has no experience (R) but Fluker who has played RT in the past may be an upgrade over Bobby Hart if needed. On the plus side Flowers and Hart may be the youngest pair of tackles in the league. They are both only 23 years old and entering their 3rd season as starters. The Giants have improved their interior line depth with the addition of Fluker (RG) and the health and experience of Brett Jones (LG/C). I think overall the Giants O'line will be improved with the added depth and experience and the addition of a stable of better blocking TEs and a blocking fullback will help their run game significantly.

Edited by monk

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On 9/1/2017 at 9:55 AM, monk said:

Notables from last night that may have really helped themselves 

  • Lacosse (TE)
  • Rudolph (WR)
  • Geno (QB) 
  • Vereen (RB)
  • Darkwa (RB)
  • Rosas (K)  

Curious if you guys see any strong potential for one of these two to take over if Perkins doesn't do well?

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Evan Engram is going to make teams respect him , thus forcing them to keep a safety in coverage and out of the box, and that will open up the running lanes for Perkins...

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12 hours ago, GoBirds said:

Curious if you guys see any strong potential for one of these two to take over if Perkins doesn't do well?

  • Vereen is always going to be the 3rd down / receiving back ... if he stays healthy he has ppr value
  • Darkwa is the biggest of the giants backs so he may see goal-line and short yardage ... upside 6-7 TDs
  • I personally think Gallman is the the best back and long term answer but he needs to add about 10 pounds which would make him a good size back ... he has that frame for it.
  • I don't luv Perkins ...he doesn't have any standout qualities I think his upside is like 170 carries 700 yds and 5 tds
  • Giants don't have and won't have a featured back capable of 250 carries until Gallman puts on 10 lbs 
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Ok, I tried to remain hopeful, that was crushing. The OLine hasn't shown any improvement. This offense misses OBJ badly. And I'm just about over McAdoo's favorite child offense. Ugh. 40 yards? That was miserable. There isn't a QB alive, dead, or to be born that can throw behind that line. He barely has time to make one read before the defense is all over him. This is shameful. 

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, IrishTwinkie said:

Ok, I tried to remain hopeful, that was crushing. The OLine hasn't shown any improvement. This offense misses OBJ badly. And I'm just about over McAdoo's favorite child offense. Ugh. 40 yards? That was miserable. There isn't a QB alive, dead, or to be born that can throw behind that line. He barely has time to make one read before the defense is all over him. This is shameful. 

 

 

 

 

I thought the O'line looked decent in the 1st half ... Eli was terrible and Perkins has to go.

If you ask me the 1st drive of the 2nd half clearly showed that Perkins problem. They moved the ball great when he was out and nothing when he was in. He had no right being in there inside the 5 ... that has to be Darkwa

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Don't know if it will make a difference with the OL, but it would be interesting to see if Gallman can give the running game a spark. Maybe he will be active next week.

Edited by zamboni

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Well, my feeling is simply this, no one is going to look good behind that line. I hate to say this, but Jerry learned his lesson and drafted OL and its paid off. He had a decent QB, but he was always running for his life. Now the OL is solid and its paying off. I wish Reese would learn this very same lesson. Eli has happy feet. Hell, I think any quarterback would. He has no time and no confidence he'll get time. There are times he can't even complete the first read before he needs to be dodging for his life. One of these times he isn't getting up. I fear this is how Eli's career ends, running scared behind a sieve OLine.

 

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Darkwa was great with the few touches he saw and Vereen did his thing with 9 catches. Perkins was horrible and honestly doesn't even belong on the roster.

They should replace Perkins with a big short Yardage/goal line back and let Darkwa and Gallman split the carries.

Eli was terrible in the first half but partly because Perkins can't do anything. Eli Apple is another player that is barely rosterable...What an absolute waste of a top 10 pick 

Brandon Marshall should be thoroughly embarrassed by his performance 

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11 minutes ago, IrishTwinkie said:

Well, my feeling is simply this, no one is going to look good behind that line. I hate to say this, but Jerry learned his lesson and drafted OL and its paid off. He had a decent QB, but he was always running for his life. Now the OL is solid and its paying off. I wish Reese would learn this very same lesson. Eli has happy feet. Hell, I think any quarterback would. He has no time and no confidence he'll get time. There are times he can't even complete the first read before he needs to be dodging for his life. One of these times he isn't getting up. I fear this is how Eli's career ends, running scared behind a sieve OLine.

 

Re-watch the game ... the line was not that bad ! Eli usually had plenty of time to throw

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I was impressed with how well the defense held up last night. They did very well considering they were playing against 2 offenses last night. Held Dallas to 19, should have been 15 because the Witten TD was set up by a HORRIBLE pass interference call.

The offense was simply offensive. The right side of the OL was terrible. Eli was inaccurate and Marshall looked like he quit. Play calling was also bad. No way should a team throw the ball 38 times and run only 12 times in a low scoring game like that regardless of how few yards you are gaining on with the run.

I think they need to sit John Jerry and start Jones at RG.

I think Darkwa should start over Perkins.

McAdoo can't have a 3 to 1 pass to run ratio especially when Odell isn't active (shouldn't have it even when he is active) 

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It's funny because Flowers wasn't too bad in this game, John Jerry was GODAWFUL. This tweet sums it up were Eli got sacked before the O-Line could even introduce themselves... LITERALLY!

 

https://twitter.com/YahooSports/status/907043263239958528?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FYahooSports%2Fstatus%2F907043263239958528

 

Like, you watch the play and you're like "who was the guy who whiffed on the block" and then you see ... #77 John Jerry, Old Miss". This team needs to actually invest in the O-Line, Eli can't throw anything deep and he's getting Happy Feet and feeling pressure when none exists.

Edited by The Frankman

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Flowers did appear to improve. but that was only cause he couldn't really get any worse. He was still light years away from being good. Was he the weakest link on the line, no. 

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I thought the Giants O-line was terrible (although missed the third quarter), with Jerry not being able to pick up stunts and Hart seemingly getting beaten with the edge rush on a consistent basis.  I didn't think Flowers did that badly.  Well, PFF says that the line didn't do badly at all.

http://giantswire.usatoday.com/2017/09/12/new-york-giants-offensive-line-not-dominated-loss-pff/

In their Giants correspondence points e-mail, PFF shared the following:

RG John Jerry allowed two sacks and two hurries on 45 pass blocking attempts (73.4 overall), but it was LT Ereck Flowers who earned the lowest overall grade among offensive lineman (53.4 – 39th among tackles on the week). Flowers allowed a sack and a hurry. RT Bobby Hart allowed three pressures, but still finished with a 77.5 overall grade – ranked 16th among tackles on the week.

Weston Richburg (78.8 – fourth among centers) and Justin Pugh (78.1 – 15th among guards) were great as usual for the Giants offensive line, neither surrendered a pressure on 45 pass blocking attempts and performed well in the run game.

The Giants did not get dominated up front. Richburg, Pugh, Jerry, and Hart all had run block grades above 76.4 – running the ball just 12 times total, Giants RBs failed to force a missed tackle. However, they were not given much of an opportunity with so few attempts.

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My thoughts:

                    Eli had time to throw,I'm not sure what his issues are. Being careful not to throw picks? Rather he threw a couple and took shots downfield,if they put 20 points up they can beat anybody.

                   Running game is awful,if no holes are being opened they need a back who can run over people. Put Sean Peyton on speed dial and take a stab at A.P. He doesn't like sharing in Nawlins'.

                   Defense is good,real good,better than last year. They spent the first half on the field and still did a nice job. Given a little offensive production the D can be awesome.

                   We need OBJ back a.s.a.p.

                   Good thing is it's one week and it's just week one.

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23 hours ago, kentric said:

I thought the Giants O-line was terrible (although missed the third quarter), with Jerry not being able to pick up stunts and Hart seemingly getting beaten with the edge rush on a consistent basis.  I didn't think Flowers did that badly.  Well, PFF says that the line didn't do badly at all.

http://giantswire.usatoday.com/2017/09/12/new-york-giants-offensive-line-not-dominated-loss-pff/

In their Giants correspondence points e-mail, PFF shared the following:

RG John Jerry allowed two sacks and two hurries on 45 pass blocking attempts (73.4 overall), but it was LT Ereck Flowers who earned the lowest overall grade among offensive lineman (53.4 – 39th among tackles on the week). Flowers allowed a sack and a hurry. RT Bobby Hart allowed three pressures, but still finished with a 77.5 overall grade – ranked 16th among tackles on the week.

Weston Richburg (78.8 – fourth among centers) and Justin Pugh (78.1 – 15th among guards) were great as usual for the Giants offensive line, neither surrendered a pressure on 45 pass blocking attempts and performed well in the run game.

The Giants did not get dominated up front. Richburg, Pugh, Jerry, and Hart all had run block grades above 76.4 – running the ball just 12 times total, Giants RBs failed to force a missed tackle. However, they were not given much of an opportunity with so few attempts.

"Giants RBs failed to force a missed tackle." This is not true ... Look at the highlights link below

  • @ 1:00 Darkwa had a beautiful jump cut on his 12 yard run
  • Not in the Highlights but 3-1-NYG 19 (:50) 26-O.Darkwa left tackle to NYG 23 for 4 yards ... Dallas made contact at the line of scrimmage and Darkwa plowed forward for 3-4 hard fought yards
  • Not a run play but to point out how bad Eli sux @ 1:52 Look at how open Darkwa gets when Eli, who appears to be looking right at him, takes a sack.   

http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/Highlights-Cowboys-19-Giants-3/4fcce3ef-01ef-41b9-90e0-0c1a5488728c

 

 

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Sunday night and Monday night to start the season sux.

Hard to get into it 

Edited by monk

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Agreed. 

I am kinda over the whole Giants travel to Dallas for SNF to start every season too. 

 

Looking forward to the game. Hopefully Jackrabbit can go tonite. (I've not looked at any reports today) And yeah, we need OBJ on the field too. 

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I can't believe I am typing this but I think Flowers has gotten worse 

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

I can't believe I am typing this but I think Flowers has gotten worse 

I was clearly wrong when I said it wasn't possible Flowers could get any worse. I think there is less than a 50 percent chance that Eli survives the season behind this line. I know we are going to hear about his game starting streak every game this season. Every time is going to sound like the classic announcer jinks when some kicker has made some bazillion-ly number of bunny kicks in a row. Eli got crushed a couple of times due to horrible play by the Oline. Again. I shudder to think whats going to happen vs an actually good defensive front. 

And whoever published the idea this was a superbowl team? They need to stop covering sports. 8 straight games without scoring more than 20 points. A stunning 12 out of 19 games without scoring more that 20. In that time, their highest output has been 28 points. What possibly could make someone think this offense improved over the offseason?

I do think the Defense is good. Perhaps great. But with out any help, its not going to show up anywhere. Vernon, in particular, is a beast. 

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0-7 start is a strong possibility. Beckham and Marshall will be bouncing off the walls.

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6 minutes ago, IrishTwinkie said:

I was clearly wrong when I said it wasn't possible Flowers could get any worse. I think there is less than a 50 percent chance that Eli survives the season behind this line. I know we are going to hear about his game starting streak every game this season. Every time is going to sound like the classic announcer jinks when some kicker has made some bazillion-ly number of bunny kicks in a row. Eli got crushed a couple of times due to horrible play by the Oline. Again. I shudder to think whats going to happen vs an actually good defensive front. 

And whoever published the idea this was a superbowl team? They need to stop covering sports. 8 straight games without scoring more than 20 points. A stunning 12 out of 19 games without scoring more that 20. In that time, their highest output has been 28 points. What possibly could make someone think this offense improved over the offseason?

I do think the Defense is good. Perhaps great. But with out any help, its not going to show up anywhere. Vernon, in particular, is a beast. 

Agreed. I saw some chuckleheads calling this a SB team in the offseason. I never understood it knowing this O-line was a problem that was strangely ignored by Reese and Co.

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30 minutes ago, lod001 said:

0-7 start is a strong possibility. Beckham and Marshall will be bouncing off the walls.

Marshall has no right to be running his mouth. About anything. Eli put the ball right in his hands, at a critical point in the game, and he straight up dropped it. To think that Howard Cross used to be called "Stone Hands" among my set of Giant-fan-friends. Marshall has taken over that tag, perhaps for ever. Zero excuse. And zero right to run his mouth.

ETA: I agree that 0-7 is completely within the realm of possible outcomes. Heck, I am have trouble seeing how this team can win any game. They'll luck their way into a 4-12, 2-14 type of season. The team has talent to be better, except on the OLine. 

Edited by IrishTwinkie

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Just now, IrishTwinkie said:

Marshall has no right to be running his mouth. About anything. Eli put the ball right in his hands, at a critical point in the game, and he straight up dropped it. To think that Howard Cross used to be called "Stone Hands" among my set of Giant-fan-friends. Marshall has taken over that tag, perhaps for ever. Zero excuse. And zero right to run his mouth.

 

Not right now because of that horrible drop but give it a few more losses and no drops and he will go off.

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Maybe I have my rose-colored glassed on, but I actually thought that the Giants offensive gameplan was working rather well for a time.  Sacks killed the gameplan.  That holding penalty at the 1-2 yard line was a killer.

On a lighter note, it looks like the honeymoon is truly over.  McAdoo called out Eli.

"The New York Giants' comeback attempt was derailed by what coach Ben McAdoo called "sloppy quarterback play" by Eli Manning near the goal line in the third quarter of a 24-10 loss to the Detroit Lions."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20750712/ben-mcadoo-new-york-giants-says-onus-key-mistake-eli-manning

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21 minutes ago, kentric said:

Maybe I have my rose-colored glassed on, but I actually thought that the Giants offensive gameplan was working rather well for a time.  Sacks killed the gameplan.  That holding penalty at the 1-2 yard line was a killer.

On a lighter note, it looks like the honeymoon is truly over.  McAdoo called out Eli.

"The New York Giants' comeback attempt was derailed by what coach Ben McAdoo called "sloppy quarterback play" by Eli Manning near the goal line in the third quarter of a 24-10 loss to the Detroit Lions."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20750712/ben-mcadoo-new-york-giants-says-onus-key-mistake-eli-manning

McAdoo is just looking for a scapegoat to take some of the heat off of himself. Poor play calling and a horrible OL that wasn't addressed in the draft or free agency contributed to the loss also.

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14 minutes ago, beerbuff said:

McAdoo is just looking for a scapegoat to take some of the heat off of himself. Poor play calling and a horrible OL that wasn't addressed in the draft or free agency contributed to the loss also.

Not sure how much of that is on the coach and how much of that is on the GM.  For all we know, maybe McAdoo asked for some help and he was told that the money would be spent elsewhere.

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50 minutes ago, beerbuff said:

McAdoo is just looking for a scapegoat to take some of the heat off of himself. Poor play calling and a horrible OL that wasn't addressed in the draft or free agency contributed to the loss also.

Smart move. Gomer is really awful right now and the OL will not help him at all. In fact, Gomer is done as an NFL QB. Throw the guy, that's fading, under the bus to buy more time to rebuild and save your own job. Lobby for the rebuild.

Edited by lod001

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24 minutes ago, groin pains said:

The Eagles will shut out the Giants next week. 

I'm dreading that game. We've got a bunch of people coming over to watch and I wish we could cancel. I'll be drinking triple old-fashioneds and will stay busy on the grill.

I'm not expecting a shutout but nothing I've seen thus far gives me confidence it will even be a competitive game.

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5 minutes ago, McGarnicle said:

I'm dreading that game. We've got a bunch of people coming over to watch and I wish we could cancel. I'll be drinking triple old-fashioneds and will stay busy on the grill.

I'm not expecting a shutout but nothing I've seen thus far gives me confidence it will even be a competitive game.

Philly's DL should be good for about a half dozen sacks, at minimum.

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4 minutes ago, groin pains said:

Philly's DL should be good for about a half dozen sacks, at minimum.

Especially if Eli keeps holding on to the ball and tripping over his own feet. 

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I hear a lot of people complaining about the O'line and I agree it has been bad but no wheres near as bad as Eli and Perkins are making it look.

Eli has been absolutely atrocious ... I rewound just about every sack a counted to a min of 3 seconds and as much as 5-6 seconds in at least one case. He's got to help out the O'line at least a little bit !!! He holds the ball to long, makes zero effort to make something happen under pressure and goes down without even getting hit. The Giants D'line probably put more pressure on Stafford than Detroit put on Eli and the results were completely different. Stafford would get rid of the ball or just step up to avoid the pressure every time he felt it. Also notice that Stafford runs the play clock down to 1 second every play and never gets a delay of game. The throw behind Engram was a catastrophe ... he was wide open coming across the middle and Eli threw it 3 to 4 feet behind him ... That's inexcusable !! Eli has obviously lost the desire to play and should just step aside at this point ... as crazy as this sounds I think the Giants would be more competitive with Geno at the helm.

I also keep hearing how the giants cant get anything going on the ground and that is somewhat true. Perkins is ####### terrible!!! He is averaging 1.9 yards per carry for the season.  But Vereen is averaging 4.7 and Darkwa is averaging 5.2 ... they don't seem to be having a problem. When they are in the Giants are able to move the ball

 

 

 

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Giants coach Ben McAdoo says the team is "absolutely" sticking with Ereck Flowers at left tackle for Week 3. :crazy:

Rotowold: Flowers got his soul owned on Monday Night Football, single-handedly ending Ziggy Ansah's pass-rushing slump. He was whipped for three sacks, more or less torpedoing the Giants' offense. Flowers was just as bad in Week 1, as well as the preseason. The G-Men are running low on viable alternatives, but are likely nearing "anyone but Flowers" territory.

Source: Kimberly Jones on Twitter

Sep 19 - 4:30 PM

Edited by gethugefast1

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2 minutes ago, gethugefast1 said:

Giants coach Ben McAdoo says the team is "absolutely" sticking with Ereck Flowers at left tackle for Week 3. :crazy:

Rotowold: Flowers got his soul owned on Monday Night Football, single-handedly ending Ziggy Ansah's pass-rushing slump. He was whipped for three sacks, more or less torpedoing the Giants' offense. Flowers was just as bad in Week 1, as well as the preseason. The G-Men are running low on viable alternatives, but are likely nearing "anyone but Flowers" territory.

Source: Kimberly Jones on Twitter

Sep 19 - 4:30 PM

I hope they stop leaving him alone on an island over there. They have to chip with a RB on his side, line up a TE over there something, they just can't leave him on an island he isn't that good

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