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Yenrub

2017 New York football Giants thread

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50 minutes ago, beerbuff said:

McAdoo is just looking for a scapegoat to take some of the heat off of himself. Poor play calling and a horrible OL that wasn't addressed in the draft or free agency contributed to the loss also.

Smart move. Gomer is really awful right now and the OL will not help him at all. In fact, Gomer is done as an NFL QB. Throw the guy, that's fading, under the bus to buy more time to rebuild and save your own job. Lobby for the rebuild.

Edited by lod001

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24 minutes ago, groin pains said:

The Eagles will shut out the Giants next week. 

I'm dreading that game. We've got a bunch of people coming over to watch and I wish we could cancel. I'll be drinking triple old-fashioneds and will stay busy on the grill.

I'm not expecting a shutout but nothing I've seen thus far gives me confidence it will even be a competitive game.

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5 minutes ago, McGarnicle said:

I'm dreading that game. We've got a bunch of people coming over to watch and I wish we could cancel. I'll be drinking triple old-fashioneds and will stay busy on the grill.

I'm not expecting a shutout but nothing I've seen thus far gives me confidence it will even be a competitive game.

Philly's DL should be good for about a half dozen sacks, at minimum.

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4 minutes ago, groin pains said:

Philly's DL should be good for about a half dozen sacks, at minimum.

Especially if Eli keeps holding on to the ball and tripping over his own feet. 

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I hear a lot of people complaining about the O'line and I agree it has been bad but no wheres near as bad as Eli and Perkins are making it look.

Eli has been absolutely atrocious ... I rewound just about every sack a counted to a min of 3 seconds and as much as 5-6 seconds in at least one case. He's got to help out the O'line at least a little bit !!! He holds the ball to long, makes zero effort to make something happen under pressure and goes down without even getting hit. The Giants D'line probably put more pressure on Stafford than Detroit put on Eli and the results were completely different. Stafford would get rid of the ball or just step up to avoid the pressure every time he felt it. Also notice that Stafford runs the play clock down to 1 second every play and never gets a delay of game. The throw behind Engram was a catastrophe ... he was wide open coming across the middle and Eli threw it 3 to 4 feet behind him ... That's inexcusable !! Eli has obviously lost the desire to play and should just step aside at this point ... as crazy as this sounds I think the Giants would be more competitive with Geno at the helm.

I also keep hearing how the giants cant get anything going on the ground and that is somewhat true. Perkins is ####### terrible!!! He is averaging 1.9 yards per carry for the season.  But Vereen is averaging 4.7 and Darkwa is averaging 5.2 ... they don't seem to be having a problem. When they are in the Giants are able to move the ball

 

 

 

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Giants coach Ben McAdoo says the team is "absolutely" sticking with Ereck Flowers at left tackle for Week 3. :crazy:

Rotowold: Flowers got his soul owned on Monday Night Football, single-handedly ending Ziggy Ansah's pass-rushing slump. He was whipped for three sacks, more or less torpedoing the Giants' offense. Flowers was just as bad in Week 1, as well as the preseason. The G-Men are running low on viable alternatives, but are likely nearing "anyone but Flowers" territory.

Source: Kimberly Jones on Twitter

Sep 19 - 4:30 PM

Edited by gethugefast1

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2 minutes ago, gethugefast1 said:

Giants coach Ben McAdoo says the team is "absolutely" sticking with Ereck Flowers at left tackle for Week 3. :crazy:

Rotowold: Flowers got his soul owned on Monday Night Football, single-handedly ending Ziggy Ansah's pass-rushing slump. He was whipped for three sacks, more or less torpedoing the Giants' offense. Flowers was just as bad in Week 1, as well as the preseason. The G-Men are running low on viable alternatives, but are likely nearing "anyone but Flowers" territory.

Source: Kimberly Jones on Twitter

Sep 19 - 4:30 PM

I hope they stop leaving him alone on an island over there. They have to chip with a RB on his side, line up a TE over there something, they just can't leave him on an island he isn't that good

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Y'know there is a guy in Houston holding out by the name of Duane Brown... pretty good left tackle. Giants might want to make a trade because they absolutely need to make a change before the season is lost. Or before Eli dies on the field.

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On 9/19/2017 at 10:09 AM, kentric said:

Maybe I have my rose-colored glassed on, but I actually thought that the Giants offensive gameplan was working rather well for a time.  Sacks killed the gameplan.  That holding penalty at the 1-2 yard line was a killer.

On a lighter note, it looks like the honeymoon is truly over.  McAdoo called out Eli.

"The New York Giants' comeback attempt was derailed by what coach Ben McAdoo called "sloppy quarterback play" by Eli Manning near the goal line in the third quarter of a 24-10 loss to the Detroit Lions."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20750712/ben-mcadoo-new-york-giants-says-onus-key-mistake-eli-manning

As expected, Eli taking a pragmatic, high road approach.

“That’s part of being in the NFL, you can’t be sensitive,’’ Manning said Wednesday. “I think everybody has gotten very sensitive, players and everybody. If someone says anything negative about you, you did something wrong, that you got a problem. Coach McAdoo and I have a great relationship. He understands, I told him when he first got here, I enjoy being coached. If I screw something up, let me know. There’s some things I got to be better at.’’

McAdoo came down hard on Manning for a delay-of-game penalty Monday night on the Detroit 2-yard line and an interception Manning threw immediately after the Giants forced a Lions turnover. Manning accepted responsibility for both gaffes.

McAdoo sounds incredulous that anyone thinks he is picking on Manning.

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On 7/15/2017 at 2:07 AM, SleepyIDP said:

I thought Perkins look decent during the end of the '16 season....and with all the new offensive weapons outside the hashes, teams just can't stack the box with 7-8 defenders all the time to stop the run- I agree the offensive line is not by any stretch great, but if Eli and the boys can get on track To begin the season it will open up the floodgates for Perkins. I for one, am interested in what he can do. 

I'm hanging on, but I'm not optimistic. He looks like he lost the burst he had last season, and that o-line is epically bad. This is what's going to sink the Giants' SB chances: missing out on two 1st round tackles (Flowers and Pugh) have doomed this team to a wild card at best, and probably an 8-8 season. 

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2 hours ago, The Frankman said:

Flowers is a turnstile.

FYP. 

 

Pugh is one of the better Giants offensive line guys. If he was the worst one, the G-men would be a lot better off! 

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FYI, this might have been mentioned but it's not just the line.  Eli was holding the ball for way too long on many snaps.  Even a good NFL O-line (which they are obviously not) can't be expected to protect for more than a few seconds.  

Eli is exasperating the problem.

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4 hours ago, flysack said:

I'm hanging on, but I'm not optimistic. He looks like he lost the burst he had last season, and that o-line is epically bad. This is what's going to sink the Giants' SB chances: missing out on two 1st round tackles (Flowers and Pugh) have doomed this team to a wild card at best, and probably an 8-8 season. 

I think you can add a 3rd missed 1st rounder ... Eli Apple sux !

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7 hours ago, Avery said:

FYI, this might have been mentioned but it's not just the line.  Eli was holding the ball for way too long on many snaps.  Even a good NFL O-line (which they are obviously not) can't be expected to protect for more than a few seconds.  

Eli is exasperating the problem.

Eli is just exasperating.

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8 hours ago, Avery said:

FYI, this might have been mentioned but it's not just the line.  Eli was holding the ball for way too long on many snaps.  Even a good NFL O-line (which they are obviously not) can't be expected to protect for more than a few seconds.  

Eli is exasperating the problem.

hey is that Eli's problem or did the GM NOT get  quality supporting cast for Eli other than OBJ? THEY CANT GET OPEN..I think Eli is pretty bad now but the wr's aare atrocious. Marshall? washed up. Shep? meh. Vereen? why was he even signed ? Perkins ? Darkwa? if either was cut are they picked up elsewhere? hell no. 

Giants are void of talent.void of offensive linemen. Pugh is the best we have? he's a glorified truck driver for pete's sake. this team is now projected for 5 wins on fantasyindex.com. I would put that total at no more than 3 wins.

this decline has gone on since the day Reese took over GM duties. hiring McAdoosh was just silly. didnt he draft Nassib too?let Linval Joseph walk.. oh brother

Edited by Tanner9919

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There's a lot to unpack in your rant but I'll leave it at this. 

Teams are rarely as bereft of talent as they look when Hey loose are they are rarely overflowing with talent when they win. 

Deapite Marshall looking like he fell off the cliff, the Giants have very good receiving talent and, although their O-line is below average and the game planning and play calling is suspect at best, much as I've defended Eli over the years, some blame does fall on Eli for holding the ball too long. 

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On 9/22/2017 at 11:26 AM, Avery said:

There's a lot to unpack in your rant but I'll leave it at this. 

Teams are rarely as bereft of talent as they look when Hey loose are they are rarely overflowing with talent when they win. 

Deapite Marshall looking like he fell off the cliff, the Giants have very good receiving talent and, although their O-line is below average and the game planning and play calling is suspect at best, much as I've defended Eli over the years, some blame does fall on Eli for holding the ball too long. 

QBs are in a touch. Too much credit for wins. Too much blame for loses. Is Eli perfect? No. Is Eli the source of the issues. not a chance in my opinion. He is being asked to do the impossible. 

I am beside myself right now. Part of me is raging over the loss. It was a hell of kick by elliott, but it should have never have gotten then. The delay of game was dumb. The multiple shots down the field with 5 minutes left was dumber. The other part of me is raging that the giants even made a game of it, cause I think it just extends the pain and will convince McAdoo that he really should be calling the plays.

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I would think next year the Draft goes like this:

 

1st Round: O-Line

2nd Round: O-Line

3rd Round: O-Line

 

Hell, sign a LT if you need also.I don't think they don''t have enough O even if Marshall is "washed". The RB situation is concerning but if they had a good O-Line any RB could do work  (see McFadden a few years ago with the Cowboys line).

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24 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

I would think next year the Draft goes like this:

 

1st Round: O-Line

2nd Round: O-Line

3rd Round: O-Line

 

Hell, sign a LT if you need also.I don't think they don''t have enough O even if Marshall is "washed". The RB situation is concerning but if they had a good O-Line any RB could do work  (see McFadden a few years ago with the Cowboys line).

You would think but it will probably go more like this ...

1st Round: WR

2nd Round: DT 

3rd Round: CB

The Giant O'line, LBs and RBs are all equally bad from years of neglect. 

Perkins should not even be on any teams practice squad never mind an NLF starting RB. Eli Apple cost us a mere 80 yards and 2 TDs today (#10 pick in the draft) could have been Tunsil or Decker both very solid. Casillas runs around the field like he's a blind linebacker ... on a couple of plays the RB was coming right at him and he took himself out of the play instead go after the lead blockers who had already run past him

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3 hours ago, monk said:

You would think but it will probably go more like this ...

1st Round: WR

2nd Round: DT 

3rd Round: CB

The Giant O'line, LBs and RBs are all equally bad from years of neglect. 

Perkins should not even be on any teams practice squad never mind an NLF starting RB. Eli Apple cost us a mere 80 yards and 2 TDs today (#10 pick in the draft) could have been Tunsil or Decker both very solid. Casillas runs around the field like he's a blind linebacker ... on a couple of plays the RB was coming right at him and he took himself out of the play instead go after the lead blockers who had already run past him

If Reese is gone a competent GM like Gettleman is brought in (which I think is likely to happen) I think you'll start seeing drafts that address needs a bit more than "best available". Clearly that philosophy hasn't worked for several years, yet this regime sticks to it.

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4 hours ago, IrishTwinkie said:

QBs are in a touch. Too much credit for wins. Too much blame for loses. Is Eli perfect? No. Is Eli the source of the issues. not a chance in my opinion. He is being asked to do the impossible. 

I am beside myself right now. Part of me is raging over the loss. It was a hell of kick by elliott, but it should have never have gotten then. The delay of game was dumb. The multiple shots down the field with 5 minutes left was dumber. The other part of me is raging that the giants even made a game of it, cause I think it just extends the pain and will convince McAdoo that he really should be calling the plays.

You have to take shots and pass when your running game is anemic at best. That had been the Giants undoing for the last few years, especially 2 years ago when they kept blowing leads.

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Didn't get to see the game.

Any explanation as to why they didn't use the FB down on the goal line? Why carry one if you aren't going to use him down there?

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1 hour ago, BigBlue_RI said:

You have to take shots and pass when your running game is anemic at best. That had been the Giants undoing for the last few years, especially 2 years ago when they kept blowing leads.

Not when the game is tied, there are 5 minutes left, you have the ball, all you need is a FG to win and the short slants have been working all day. This was almost as bad as the Falcons in the SB. Why give the ball back when the time of possession isn't in your favor and the D is gassed? 

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19 hours ago, Yenrub said:

Didn't get to see the game.

Any explanation as to why they didn't use the FB down on the goal line? Why carry one if you aren't going to use him down there?

That's exactly what I was screaming at the TV 

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Yes the Giants stink, Yes the Giants can't run the ball, but the reason they lost  ... 

1-10-NYG 44(6:11) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 11-C.Wentz pass incomplete deep right to 17-A.Jeffery [94-D.Tomlinson]. PENALTY on NYG-24-E.Apple, Defensive Pass Interference, 41 yards, enforced at NYG 44 - No Play. - C.Wentz pass short middle to 86-Z.Ertz for 3 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

2-8-PHI 49(5:53) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 11-C.Wentz pass incomplete deep right to 82-T.Smith (24-E.Apple). PENALTY on NYG-24-E.Apple, Defensive Pass Interference, 36 yards, enforced at PHI 49 - No Play.1-10-NYG 15(5:46) 30-C.Clement left end for 15 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

2-10-PHI 38(:07) (Shotgun) 11-C.Wentz pass deep right to 17-A.Jeffery ran ob at NYG 43 for 19 yards. NYG-24-E.Apple misplayed the ball, missed the tackle and took Janoris Jenkins out of the play allowing Jeffery to get out of bounds with 1 second left 1-10-NYG 43(:01) 4-J.Elliott 61 yard field goal is GOOD,

 

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nah..McAdon't is not a good coach. spags is vastly overrated. bad coaching results in undisciplined players like Apple. or like obj getting flagged for excessive ' in your face' after every catch or td. it comes down to coaching..or lack thereof. owners are too nice.they need to fire some ppl and shake things up

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On 9/21/2017 at 2:29 PM, Avery said:

FYI, this might have been mentioned but it's not just the line.  Eli was holding the ball for way too long on many snaps.  Even a good NFL O-line (which they are obviously not) can't be expected to protect for more than a few seconds.  

Eli is exasperating the problem.

Sure can't blame Eli for the loss on Sunday.  As to his holding the ball too long I think they had a decent game plan to accommodate the weak O-line.  Eli released the ball on average in about 1.8 seconds.  That was a full 0.3 second faster than any other QB Sunday.

Eli is not elite, but like many QBs in the NFL, you put him behind a strong O-line and he'll look very good.

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On 9/24/2017 at 5:31 PM, monk said:

You would think but it will probably go more like this ...

1st Round: WR

2nd Round: DT 

3rd Round: CB

The Giant O'line, LBs and RBs are all equally bad from years of neglect. 

Perkins should not even be on any teams practice squad never mind an NLF starting RB. Eli Apple cost us a mere 80 yards and 2 TDs today (#10 pick in the draft) could have been Tunsil or Decker both very solid. Casillas runs around the field like he's a blind linebacker ... on a couple of plays the RB was coming right at him and he took himself out of the play instead go after the lead blockers who had already run past him

With you on this.  I'm not sure what his stats were, but I was seeing the same thing you did.  There was one play where he should have moved to plug a hole but inexplicably he took the other side right by his DL.  I was like :doh:

eta: I also thought Perkins had a tough game showing limited vision.  There were several plays where it looked like if he cut to an inside hole or, pushed it outside that he had running room.

Edited by kentric

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6 hours ago, kentric said:

Sure can't blame Eli for the loss on Sunday.  As to his holding the ball too long I think they had a decent game plan to accommodate the weak O-line.  Eli released the ball on average in about 1.8 seconds.  That was a full 0.3 second faster than any other QB Sunday.

Eli is not elite, but like many QBs in the NFL, you put him behind a strong O-line and he'll look very good.

Yup.  He definitely looked better getting the ball out of his hand quickly on Sunday.

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17 hours ago, Walking Boot said:

Our season is fine. We're only one win behind the Jets. We can still overtake them and be the best football team in New York. City, not state, but still, that's something!

Call me the eternal optimist, but I think the Giants put it together and are still going to make the playoffs.  I think the offensive game plan is going to solidify and the Giants will start crushing it (notwithstanding the weak O-line).

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I am not sure the OLine flaws can be hidden. But they tried it vs the Eagles with the short and *quick* passing. And it mostly, kinda, sorta worked. Eli was as clean as he has been all season. Of course the OLine found their moments to wreck things, but not nearly as badly as other games. Then again, it seemed like the Eagles were struggling in the back and played off most of the game. I am sure that helped the short passing game. I doubt other teams will play that soft.

I am not getting a warm-fuzzy from McAdoo right now. In fact, I'm irked by almost every thing he does right now. Hopefully that changes. I'd like to return to being a positive outlook fan. The unit I expect to turn it around is the D. I think the pieces are in place there, but they must solve the running game thing. I feel that can happen. 

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they must solve the running game thing.

i don't see this happening without a trade. The oline is bad and the RBs are beyond bad. Darkwa is hurt and I believe Veeren is now nursing an injury. Perkins is really really bad ... how they keep running him out there is beyond me.

The good news is we may get to see Gallman this week. He is way better than Perkins but I don't think he is the answer either.

They should seriously consider offering NO a 6th or 7th rounder for AP or a 3 or 4 for Ingram. 

They cant do it with these RBs

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6 minutes ago, monk said:

they must solve the running game thing.

i don't see this happening without a trade. The oline is bad and the RBs are beyond bad. Darkwa is hurt and I believe Veeren is now nursing an injury. Perkins is really really bad ... how they keep running him out there is beyond me.

The good news is we may get to see Gallman this week. He is way better than Perkins but I don't think he is the answer either.

They should seriously consider offering NO a 6th or 7th rounder for AP or a 3 or 4 for Ingram. 

They cant do it with these RBs

Darkwa said he will play, he just has back tightness.

 

Ingram has been a longtime trade wish of mine, but if Giants do a deal I've been clamoring for the Giants to spend a 3rd for Duane Brown of the Texans.

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2 hours ago, monk said:

they must solve the running game thing.

i don't see this happening without a trade. The oline is bad and the RBs are beyond bad. Darkwa is hurt and I believe Veeren is now nursing an injury. Perkins is really really bad ... how they keep running him out there is beyond me.

The good news is we may get to see Gallman this week. He is way better than Perkins but I don't think he is the answer either.

They should seriously consider offering NO a 6th or 7th rounder for AP or a 3 or 4 for Ingram. 

They cant do it with these RBs

If they go after a RB I prefer they target someone younger. AP is a one to two year rental for a team that needs more help than just a RB. Let's face it. At 0-3, they have little chance of competing this year.  I'd prefer to see them spend even less and go after guys like Corey Grant or TJ Yeldon from Jacksonville.  Yeldon has been inactive the last few games so I don't see it costing a bunch to get him and Grant is electric every time he touches the ball. He looks like what the Giants hoped Perkins would be. 

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2 hours ago, The Frankman said:

Darkwa said he will play, he just has back tightness.

 

Ingram has been a longtime trade wish of mine, but if Giants do a deal I've been clamoring for the Giants to spend a 3rd for Duane Brown of the Texans.

I'd like to have him but I think it's too late for him to help this year... he's not in football shape, different system, obviously looking for big $$ longer term contract and ... hes 32 so no way in the world I'd give up a 3rd round pick

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2 hours ago, Boone22 said:

If they go after a RB I prefer they target someone younger. AP is a one to two year rental for a team that needs more help than just a RB. Let's face it. At 0-3, they have little chance of competing this year.  I'd prefer to see them spend even less and go after guys like Corey Grant or TJ Yeldon from Jacksonville.  Yeldon has been inactive the last few games so I don't see it costing a bunch to get him and Grant is electric every time he touches the ball. He looks like what the Giants hoped Perkins would be. 

They only need AP for this year... they need a big back that can break a tackle and create on his own. Yeldon is definitely not that guy ... Chris Ivory would be but I wouldn't want to give up much for a stop gap ... 5th rounder at the absolute most. I feel like NO would luv to get rid of AP for a 6 ...he doesn't seem like a good fit and they have 2 other solid backs  

Edited by monk

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On 9/28/2017 at 1:00 PM, monk said:

They only need AP for this year... they need a big back that can break a tackle and create on his own. Yeldon is definitely not that guy ... Chris Ivory would be but I wouldn't want to give up much for a stop gap ... 5th rounder at the absolute most. I feel like NO would luv to get rid of AP for a 6 ...he doesn't seem like a good fit and they have 2 other solid backs  

I'm pretty sure AP is no longer that guy either.

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5 hours ago, GoBirds said:

So who is the RB that grabs the job this year?

Why not Gallman?  I've always thought if Darkwa was given a full workload he'd do well, but after all this time, it doesn't look like it's going to happen. 

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Gallman looked good. Certainly better than Perkins or Darkwa has. 

 

This team tho? Whew. Its already been a long year. At this point I am expecting a full front office blow up. Sooner, rather than later.

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The Giants traditionally do not change HC and front office midseason. On some level it doesn't make a lot of sense to. However--the best candidate to take over for Reese, I feel, has Giants ties, and that is Dave Gettleman. I don't care what happened in Carolina. He built a winner.

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7 hours ago, BigBlue_RI said:

The Giants traditionally do not change HC and front office midseason. On some level it doesn't make a lot of sense to. However--the best candidate to take over for Reese, I feel, has Giants ties, and that is Dave Gettleman. I don't care what happened in Carolina. He built a winner.

Oh, I know they won't change in season. But I felt they took the half step when they ditched Coughlin. At the time I felt they tabbed the wrong guy. Which, from me, was saying a lot as I was very skeptical of Coughlin when he came in. I felt he was a kind of a one trick pony, but he learned, amended his ways but still hung on to his core values and eventually became a great coach. By keeping Reese I felt they kept the ultimate root of the problem. Nothing I've seen in the next two years changed my mind. They had taken some long strides to fix the D last year, but there were other glaring roster holes that couldn't be fixed. Similar efforts were not made this off season and it appears the D has taken at least two steps backwards now. As far as I am concerned Reese can't be fired soon enough.

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