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the jets gave up so much to get to 3, i think it's a tell that nyg are set on taking a qb at 2. otherwise they probably would have hopped all over that deal to move to 6 imo

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3 minutes ago, Buffaloes said:

the jets gave up so much to get to 3, i think it's a tell that nyg are set on taking a qb at 2. otherwise they probably would have hopped all over that deal to move to 6 imo

Interesting take

I certainly would have liked to see the Giants get the Colts deal

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1 minute ago, Buffaloes said:

the jets gave up so much to get to 3, i think it's a tell that nyg are set on taking a qb at 2. otherwise they probably would have hopped all over that deal to move to 6 imo

That's what Joe Banner has been saying on twitter today.

 Shefter tweeted out that the team the Jets really passed to get a QB was the Bills, which suggests Colts took advantage of a bidding war neither the Browns or Giants wanted to lose a chance to draft a QB to reap the benefits.

I feel like there is close to zero chance the Browns or Giants passed  this kind of deal to draft a RB. Browns are taking a QB if the Giants make the pick at 2 so are they.

Either way if Giants don't make that pick at 2 will be someone paying to come get a QB and with pick 3 no longer for sale and everyone knowing that's a QB the price for pick two to any team wanting to move up to get a QB just got higher. This is good for Giants.

 

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5 minutes ago, Buffaloes said:

the jets gave up so much to get to 3, i think it's a tell that nyg are set on taking a qb at 2. otherwise they probably would have hopped all over that deal to move to 6 imo

I think it’s obviously a qb, which it should be.

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no it shouldnt be, that would be the worst thing the Giants could do is to take a QB..no way the Gmen want a QB at #2, he's going to get killed just like Eli unless/until they fix that line. they're taking Barkley at #2. why would they take a qb and sit him for 2-3 years to wait till eli is done??????? they need oline help. they need defensive help. they need a bit of everything. either they take Barkley or they trade down with Broncos or tell Indy give us all of that the Jets gave you, plus your 6th for our #2 overall pick..or trade with the Bills.

but taking a QB will NOT solve any problems.eli sux becuase his line sux. he had killer lines in 07 and 11..he's had garbage men and truck drivers ever since..

at least Barkley solves one issue - the glaring hole they have at the RB position..they signed JS just because they need a warm body who can carry the mail..Darkwa cant. 

another reason to NOT take a QB is that there arent any good QBs to be taken..Mafield? really? Rosen? Darnold? threw a lot of picks at USC made some really dumb plays I wouldnt touch him at all..

stay away get the best RB in the draft, Barkley..

 

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J, Stew can carry the mail but Darkwa can’t?

Stewart -198 carries – 680 yards – 3.4 ypc behind All Pro guard Andrew Norwell and Pro Bowl guard Trai Turner

Darkwa – 171 carries – 751 yards – 4.4 ypc behind a bad Giants offensive line

Stewart was brought in more for his leadership ability than his carry the mail ability

 

Also whether they take a RB or a QB they don't address the OL with their 1st pick

 

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2 hours ago, Tanner9919 said:

no it shouldnt be, that would be the worst thing the Giants could do is to take a QB..no way the Gmen want a QB at #2, he's going to get killed just like Eli unless/until they fix that line. they're taking Barkley at #2. why would they take a qb and sit him for 2-3 years to wait till eli is done??????? they need oline help. they need defensive help. they need a bit of everything. either they take Barkley or they trade down with Broncos or tell Indy give us all of that the Jets gave you, plus your 6th for our #2 overall pick..or trade with the Bills.

but taking a QB will NOT solve any problems.eli sux becuase his line sux. he had killer lines in 07 and 11..he's had garbage men and truck drivers ever since..

at least Barkley solves one issue - the glaring hole they have at the RB position..they signed JS just because they need a warm body who can carry the mail..Darkwa cant. 

another reason to NOT take a QB is that there arent any good QBs to be taken..Mafield? really? Rosen? Darnold? threw a lot of picks at USC made some really dumb plays I wouldnt touch him at all..

stay away get the best RB in the draft, Barkley..

 

:oldunsure:

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As an Eagles fan, I’m praying the Giants don’t take a QB at 2.

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Only reason the Jets are picking at #3 instead of #1 or #2 is because the Browns and Giants are also planning on taking a QB. 

As they should. 

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Trade # 2 to Bills for 21, 12 , and 2019 1st rd pick or 2018 2nd & 4th

Trade Odell to the Browns for #4 

  • # 4 - Barkley 
  • #12 - Trade back up to #7 to get Nelson
  • #21 - Mason Rudolph or Lamar Jackson (assuming the other 4 are gone)
  • #34 - Hernandez or best center available 

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What in the fukkety #### are the Giants DOING? It saves them nothing via the cap and you don't even get a 2nd for him?

 

Giants don't need to go to a 3-4, they barely have the personnel for 2 good LBs.

Edited by The Frankman
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Looks like they are committed to a total rebuild, especially in 2019 where they gain the cap space.  Does that translate to QB right away or trading down for a haul of picks?  What say ye?

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For reference I'll post Roto's breakdown:

Quote

Bucs acquired Jason Pierre-Paul and a fourth-round pick from the Giants in exchange for a third-round pick and a fourth-round pick.

 

It is a stunning move both because of the paltry compensation and because it only saves the Giants $2.5 million against the cap this season while opening a massive hole on the depth chart. It does get JPP's contract off the books moving forward, however, and the defensive end may not have been a good fit with new DC James Bettcher. This move could signify the Giants are looking at NC State's Bradley Chubb with the No. 2 overall pick. As for Tampa, they needed to rebuild their pass rush, and that is exactly what they have done by trading for Pierre-Paul and signing Vinny Curry. With Gerald McCoy on the inside, the pass rush should be much more dangerous this season.

... If I'm the Giants and they don't like the other QBs at #3 or Barkley, trade down. I haven't researched Chubb that much but is he that game-changing you don't take a Darnold/Rosen? 

Edited by The Frankman

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8 minutes ago, daveR said:

Looks like they are committed to a total rebuild, especially in 2019 where they gain the cap space.  Does that translate to QB right away or trading down for a haul of picks?  What say ye?

Have they really committed? To anything? Some of the moves they have made seem to contradict themselves.

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Gettleman has been terrible and given that he is in his mid/late 60s and has been around the league forever, he is the definition of a retread with no innovative thinking.  He shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

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38 minutes ago, daveR said:

Looks like they are committed to a total rebuild, especially in 2019 where they gain the cap space.  Does that translate to QB right away or trading down for a haul of picks?  What say ye?

Not sure since they also signed a 30 year old OT at the league's highest salary, signed a 30 year old RB and traded two picks for an ILB.

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22 minutes ago, RC94 said:

Gettleman has been terrible and given that he is in his mid/late 60s and has been around the league forever, he is the definition of a retread with no innovative thinking.  He shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

Yeah his last stint was a historic failure. 

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Not sure since they also signed a 30 year old OT at the league's highest salary, signed a 30 year old RB and traded two picks for an ILB.

Exactly. WTF are they doing?

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1 hour ago, The Frankman said:

What in the fukkety #### are the Giants DOING? It saves them nothing via the cap and you don't even get a 2nd for him?

 

Giants don't need to go to a 3-4, they barely have the personnel for 2 good LBs.

They traded for 1 and signed 1 new LBs 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Not sure since they also signed a 30 year old OT at the league's highest salary, signed a 30 year old RB and traded two picks for an ILB.

I think we all would have been much happier last season if Reece had signed a 30 year old OT or a 40 year old for that matter. And something tells me a 30 year old Stewart is going to be better than a 23 year old Perkins

Edited by monk

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Not sure I like trading JPP, but I am pretty sure I'm basing that on fond memories of what he was rather than what he is. As far as Gettleman doing a good or job or not... he is addressing the glaring needs that the team has ignored for years. Sadly all pro linemen and first pick HOF running backs aren't often on the FA market, so I'll content myself with the knowledge that he is aware of the glaring problems and isn't just whistling past the cemetery hoping that noone notices he hasn't done crap to solve the problem let alone admit it exists. The damage done by Reese was significant and is going to take more than one or two signings to fix.

 

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I had to go back and check out some info and as much as I didn't like it... I think you kinda had to do the move now.

 

https://www.sny.tv/giants/news/a-combination-of-many-factors-led-to-pierre-paul-trade/269393160

 

Article breaks down the thought process/reasons. One thing I'll correct myself on; yes the move doesn't really save money this year, but it does next year and in 2020.

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Quote

According to ESPN Giants reporter Jordan Raanan, USC's Sam Darnold is the only quarterback the Giants would take at the No. 2 overall pick.

 

It sounds like the Giants' scouting grades on Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, and Josh Allen simply aren't high enough for GM Dave Gettleman to consider picking one of the non-Darnold quarterbacks at No. 2. Gettleman has a history of drafting running backs high -- he took Christian McCaffrey eighth overall in Carolina last year -- and he never traded down in any round of the draft during four seasons as Panthers GM. Barring Gettleman disregarding his scouts or reversing course on his historical anti-trade-down stance, Penn State RB Saquon Barkley and NC State DE/OLB Bradley Chubb appear to be co-favorites to go at No. 2.

In what should be a trade-down situation... Giants unlikely to trade down. Giants don't need to pick Barkley and won't get Darnold, it's starting to look more and more like Chubb will be the pick. Ehhh... come on Cleveland, need you to be typical Browns here.

Edited by The Frankman

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This draft is so deep it would be foolish for them not to entertain trade-down offers.  Unlike previous years where scouts have said there were 20-25 first round grade players ... this one has 40-45. Super deep.

 

 

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From Rotoworld:

Josh Mauro - DL - Giants

NFL suspended Giants DE Josh Mauro four games for violating the league's policy on performance enhancing drugs.

He signed with the Giants earlier this week. In a statement, Mauro said the positive test was triggered by a pre-workout supplement he bought over the counter. The 27-year-old logged 22 tackles and one sack over 333 defensive snaps with Arizona last season.

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1 hour ago, RC94 said:

From Rotoworld:

Josh Mauro - DL - Giants

NFL suspended Giants DE Josh Mauro four games for violating the league's policy on performance enhancing drugs.

He signed with the Giants earlier this week. In a statement, Mauro said the positive test was triggered by a pre-workout supplement he bought over the counter. The 27-year-old logged 22 tackles and one sack over 333 defensive snaps with Arizona last season.

I heard the Giants appealed and the Commissioner is expected to suspend Demarcus Lawerence instead. 

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From Rotoworld:

Odell Beckham - WR - Giants

At the annual NFL Owners Meetings, Giants owner John Mara stated he "can't answer that one way or another" when asked if he foresaw a scenario where Odell Beckham didn't play for the Giants next season.

"We're certainly not shopping him if that's what you're asking," Mara continued. "But again, when you're coming off a season where you're 3-13 and played as poorly as we played, I wouldn't say that anybody is untouchable." Although any trade scenarios are likely overblown, what is clear is that the Giants front office has dwindling patience for Beckham in the wake of his viral video that surfaced earlier this month. Beckham is due $8.459 million in the final year of his rookie deal this season and it's possible long-term negotiations are stalled further if Mara's patience has grown thin.

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1 hour ago, RC94 said:

From Rotoworld:

Odell Beckham - WR - Giants

At the annual NFL Owners Meetings, Giants owner John Mara stated he "can't answer that one way or another" when asked if he foresaw a scenario where Odell Beckham didn't play for the Giants next season.

"We're certainly not shopping him if that's what you're asking," Mara continued. "But again, when you're coming off a season where you're 3-13 and played as poorly as we played, I wouldn't say that anybody is untouchable." Although any trade scenarios are likely overblown, what is clear is that the Giants front office has dwindling patience for Beckham in the wake of his viral video that surfaced earlier this month. Beckham is due $8.459 million in the final year of his rookie deal this season and it's possible long-term negotiations are stalled further if Mara's patience has grown thin.

Mara signs off on Mauro but has a problem with OBJ….yeah that’s not hypocritical

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14 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

Mara signs off on Mauro but has a problem with OBJ….yeah that’s not hypocritical

John Mara has embarrassed himself, and this franchise, repeatedly since taking over for his father.  Refusing to cut Josh Brown, even though the police had been called to his house over 20 times for domestic violence, was alone more than enough to destroy his reputation with many people.  Only when the public pressure became unbearable did he finally get rid of that POS, however by then the damage was done and he had lost all integrity.

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Odells trade value is crap right now. Shouldve traded him to the Browns before they got Landry ... Pretty sure they could have gotten the #4 pick 

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On 2018-03-23 at 5:26 PM, Bankerguy said:

I heard the Giants appealed and the Commissioner is expected to suspend Demarcus Lawerence instead. 

Odell holding a blunt in a Paris hotel room with coke. Zeke gets another game tacked on. 

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Gettleman continues to make idiotic moves, now signing a 33 year old CB.  WTF does he keep going after aging players for a rebuilding team?  From Rotoworld:

William Gay - DB - Giants

Giants signed CB William Gay, formerly of the Steelers.

Cut by the Steelers last month, Gay did not appear to have a strong market, but he ended up landing in a pretty good spot. After cutting Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, the Giants need help at slot corner, and Gay has played pretty well in that role the last couple seasons. Gay turned 33 in January.

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19 hours ago, RC94 said:

Gettleman continues to make idiotic moves, now signing a 33 year old CB.  WTF does he keep going after aging players for a rebuilding team?  From Rotoworld:

William Gay - DB - Giants

Giants signed CB William Gay, formerly of the Steelers.

Cut by the Steelers last month, Gay did not appear to have a strong market, but he ended up landing in a pretty good spot. After cutting Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, the Giants need help at slot corner, and Gay has played pretty well in that role the last couple seasons. Gay turned 33 in January.

Maybe it's the optimism of the off-season but I couldn't disagree more.  I have no idea what idiotic moves you're referring to.

He's shorn up the offensive line.  Definitely not a completed project but got a LT and some other good signings.
He's acquired the first legit LB since Antonio Pierce... it's been a while.
He's gotten rid of some overpriced contracts for middling talent and got value, and even better out from under the contract of, JPP who is still a very good player but no longer a fit for the scheme and would have been a serious anchor on the cap in the coming years.
Has made solid moves to improve special teams, a perennial weakness, with Michael Thomas and Cody Latimer.

As for Gay, much like the Michael Thomas signing, they are relatively inexpensive signings for versatile vets who can play a lot of positions in the defensive backfield who Giants fans are going to be thrilled to have once injuries hit or do you not remember street FAs being thrown straight into the starting lineup?  

He's seems to be a solid, inexpensive, versatile vet and in today's NFL, you can't just rebuild a team with young players due to the cap.  A good team is generally a balance of youth you hit on and vets you get a good contract on.  If Gay is terrible it's a very "cuttable" contract so not much harm done.

A lot of these aren't "sexy" moves but solid moves to improve the core of the team and improve the salary cap position for the next few years to make more moves.

Edited by Avery
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On 3/25/2018 at 9:30 PM, Yenrub said:

Mara signs off on Mauro but has a problem with OBJ….yeah that’s not hypocritical

I think/hope this may be negotiating posturing and I think a pretty solid one.

You aren't reaching out to other teams but with a wink and a nudge, asked other teams to bring their best offers. Either you get blown out of the water with a great offer or you show Beckham that maybe he doesn't have as much trade value as he thought he had helping get him back on the field.

Contract negotiations are often as much about posturing and perceived positions of weakness and strength than just raw numbers.

Edited by Avery

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1 hour ago, Avery said:

I think/hope this may be negotiating posturing and I think a pretty solid one.

You aren't reaching out to other teams but with a wink and a nudge, asked other teams to bring their best offers. Either you get blown out of the water with a great offer or you show Beckham that maybe he doesn't have as much trade value as he thought he had helping get him back on the field.

Contract negotiations are often as much about posturing and perceived positions of weakness and strength than just raw numbers.

I get what you are saying with the negotiations and all but I think it’s completely unnecessary.

The Giants have all the leverage now. OBJ is under contract now and they can franchise him for the next 2 seasons if they want to. They didn’t need to say anything.

All of this trade talk because of his behavior crap just rubs me the wrong way especially considering the Giants being ok with signing the wife beater Josh Brown and the PED user Mauro

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I moved out of NY over 10 yrs. ago, so maybe I'm not as tuned in as many Giants fans, but from what I've heard/read, Beckham is a strong presence in the locker room, and well respected by his teammates. I haven't heard one bad thing about the guy (other than his on-field antics which don't mean much), until Mike Evans signed his contract (just using that as a time reference, not saying any conspiracy to pay him less). A 7 second, probably doctored video comes out and all of a sudden he's a bad guy? I would hope that the Giants would be more supportive of him, but instead come out with this possibility of trading him? Sounds like the Giants are being run by a bunch of babies.

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53 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

I get what you are saying with the negotiations and all but I think it’s completely unnecessary.

The Giants have all the leverage now. OBJ is under contract now and they can franchise him for the next 2 seasons if they want to. They didn’t need to say anything.

All of this trade talk because of his behavior crap just rubs me the wrong way especially considering the Giants being ok with signing the wife beater Josh Brown and the PED user Mauro

I hear you, and not defending either Brown or Mauro, but to the best of my knowledge, nothing either of them did was a distraction on the field and put them team at a disadvantage during the game.

Also, neither of them are angling for the richest contract in the history of the position or are threatening to hold while they have a contact.

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On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 0:00 PM, Avery said:

Maybe it's the optimism of the off-season but I couldn't disagree more.  I have no idea what idiotic moves you're referring to.

He's shorn up the offensive line.  Definitely not a completed project but got a LT and some other good signings.
He's acquired the first legit LB since Antonio Pierce... it's been a while.
He's gotten rid of some overpriced contracts for middling talent and got value, and even better out from under the contract of, JPP who is still a very good player but no longer a fit for the scheme and would have been a serious anchor on the cap in the coming years.
Has made solid moves to improve special teams, a perennial weakness, with Michael Thomas and Cody Latimer.

As for Gay, much like the Michael Thomas signing, they are relatively inexpensive signings for versatile vets who can play a lot of positions in the defensive backfield who Giants fans are going to be thrilled to have once injuries hit or do you not remember street FAs being thrown straight into the starting lineup?  

He's seems to be a solid, inexpensive, versatile vet and in today's NFL, you can't just rebuild a team with young players due to the cap.  A good team is generally a balance of youth you hit on and vets you get a good contract on.  If Gay is terrible it's a very "cuttable" contract so not much harm done.

A lot of these aren't "sexy" moves but solid moves to improve the core of the team and improve the salary cap position for the next few years to make more moves.

I disagree about the o-line.  He upgraded at LT, but you or I would have been an upgrade at LT over Flowers.  He signed a LT who is above average to the biggest o-line contract in history.  I understand the economics of the NFL and that Solder was the next man up so he got the big contract, but IMO they would have been better off going after Hubbard and Norwell, which would have been a better overall upgrade and a better use of the salary cap.  Omameh could be an adequate replacement for Pugh, but still a downgrade IMO.  He let Pugh and Richburg go and IMO downgraded at G and C, so even though they upgraded at LT, which is important, I don't think the o-line is upgraded as a whole.

At LB, he traded for a very overpriced LB who doesn't fit their new scheme.  IMO he did the Rams a favor by letting them get rid of a big salary of a guy who hasn't played as well as his athleticism should have had him play.  Like with LT, you or I would have probably been an upgrade at LB, so he may help there, but he won't be worth his contract at all IMO.

Getting rid of JPP will save money next year, but didn't really help this year.  If he doesn't fit the new scheme and he wanted to get rid of some salary, that only adds to my questions about trading for Ogletree.  That said, I am not against the JPP trade, but I don't think it helps the team much.

Stewart was a waste of money and a roster spot.  I agree about upgrading at special teams and if Gay is cuttable I also agree with you.  However, this is not a good team overall going into the offseason so I wanted to see younger players, not 30+ year olds get targeted.  They already had vets and didn't need to add some really aging ones with really nothing but downside at this point.  This team is now older and IMO not a playoff caliber team, so they will be back to square one in many ways next year with so many aging players.

I don't need or care about sexy moves.  I just don't think they are making moves that fit who they really are, both in rebuilding status and defensive scheme.

 

Edited by RC94

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Interesting move by Flowers.  We'll see if it works out for him.  From Rotoworld:

Ereck Flowers - T - Giants

Giants RT Ereck Flowers was a no-show for the start of the team's offseason conditioning program on Monday.

It's only day one and these workouts are technically voluntary, but Flowers' absence will likely be received poorly by a new Giants regime. The ninth overall pick in the 2015 draft, Flowers has been a bust at left tackle. New coach Pat Shurmur is hoping Flowers will flourish with a move to the right side.

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12 hours ago, RC94 said:

I disagree about the o-line.  He upgraded at LT, but you or I would have been an upgrade at LT over Flowers.  He signed a LT who is above average to the biggest o-line contract in history.  I understand the economics of the NFL and that Solder was the next man up so he got the big contract, but IMO they would have been better off going after Hubbard and Norwell, which would have been a better overall upgrade and a better use of the salary cap.  Omameh could be an adequate replacement for Pugh, but still a downgrade IMO.  He let Pugh and Richburg go and IMO downgraded at G and C, so even though they upgraded at LT, which is important, I don't think the o-line is upgraded as a whole.

At LB, he traded for a very overpriced LB who doesn't fit their new scheme.  IMO he did the Rams a favor by letting them get rid of a big salary of a guy who hasn't played as well as his athleticism should have had him play.  Like with LT, you or I would have probably been an upgrade at LB, so he may help there, but he won't be worth his contract at all IMO.

Getting rid of JPP will save money next year, but didn't really help this year.  If he doesn't fit the new scheme and he wanted to get rid of some salary, that only adds to my questions about trading for Ogletree.  That said, I am not against the JPP trade, but I don't think it helps the team much.

Stewart was a waste of money and a roster spot.  I agree about upgrading at special teams and if Gay is cuttable I also agree with you.  However, this is not a good team overall going into the offseason so I wanted to see younger players, not 30+ year olds get targeted.  They already had vets and didn't need to add some really aging ones with really nothing but downside at this point.  This team is now older and IMO not a playoff caliber team, so they will be back to square one in many ways next year with so many aging players.

I don't need or care about sexy moves.  I just don't think they are making moves that fit who they really are, both in rebuilding status and defensive scheme.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree as we see how this all plays out.

The one point I'll push back on is your polar point that after one FA signing period the Giants are "not a playoff caliber team, so they will be back to square one".  The Giants were a terrible team last year.  3-13 terrible. 2nd overall pick in the draft terrible.  They can take steps in the right direction and not necessarily be a playoff caliber team after one FA signing period.  That doesn't necessarily put them back to square one.

Now we can debate, as we have, whether or not we think the Gettleman's moves have improved the team, I think they have you think he's making "idiotic moves", but after such a dumpster fire of a season, it is setting ourselves up for failure if the only metric of success in the following year is "playoff caliber" or not.

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26 minutes ago, Avery said:

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree as we see how this all plays out.

The one point I'll push back on is your polar point that after one FA signing period the Giants are "not a playoff caliber team, so they will be back to square one".  The Giants were a terrible team last year.  3-13 terrible. 2nd overall pick in the draft terrible.  They can take steps in the right direction and not necessarily be a playoff caliber team after one FA signing period.  That doesn't necessarily put them back to square one.

Now we can debate, as we have, whether or not we think the Gettleman's moves have improved the team, I think they have you think he's making "idiotic moves", but after such a dumpster fire of a season, it is setting ourselves up for failure if the only metric of success in the following year is "playoff caliber" or not.

I can agree to disagree.  If everyone agreed all the time, life would be pretty boring.  My point about being at square one next year in many ways, is that signing 30+ year old players does not move them in the right direction.  Those kinds of players just need to be replaced in the near future anyway since they are on the downside of their careers.  If they were a player like that away from the playoffs, I can see the value in going after them, but not when you are a rebuilding team.

IMO the biggest upgrade and positive change will be for Shurmur to get the team to not quit this year.  That alone will result in some more wins, which is sad.  That's a terrible measuring stick, but it shows how bad last year was.  Also, getting Beckham back will help the offense a lot.

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