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Yenrub

Infinite New York football Giants thread

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11 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Mind going into more depth about why the offense isn't also a problem?  I'm only watching from afar, but my impression of it has been between inconsistent and awful.  Wins over Nick Mullens, Josh Johnson, and one of those QB carousel games for Tampa wouldn't have me feeling that next season will be better either.  But perhaps there's something I'm missing about the offense from afar. I could barely stay engaged in those horrendous performances against Philly and Atlanta, so I shut down watching this team at that point.

They were all Learning a new offense ... New Head Coach and Offensive coordinator 

As I pointed out earlier Giants scored 38, 30, 40, 35 in the last 7 weeks of the season and lead the NFC East in scoring. 

The line and Eli played much better down the stretch, the WRs, TE's and RBs looked very good with lots of depth.  They developed a Pro bowl K and their return game was improved with Coleman and Latimer ... hopefully they both come back. All of this with a line that was not very good but looks like it is only a player or 2 away from being much better. 

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3 hours ago, monk said:

Deshaun Watson was sacked like 58 times with a better oline 

Brady is a statue and Peyton was a statue but these guys never got sacked.

Eli has always been a statue but this is the most he's ever been sacked by far. 

You’re misunderstanding me.  Eli can’t feel the pressure.  That’s the difference between him and Peyton and Brady.  Both Peyton and Brady knew how to slide around in the pocket.  You don’t need to be a running QB to avoid the rush.  You just need to be able to feel the pressure coming and move away from it.  Eli is oblivious to it. 

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1 hour ago, Boone22 said:

You’re misunderstanding me.  Eli can’t feel the pressure.  That’s the difference between him and Peyton and Brady.  Both Peyton and Brady knew how to slide around in the pocket.  You don’t need to be a running QB to avoid the rush.  You just need to be able to feel the pressure coming and move away from it.  Eli is oblivious to it. 

Agree to disagree here. There were times this season where Eli was beaten to his spot. Put me, you, anyone in this thread and we could have done a similar job as Flowers was doing. Getting our butts handed to us as the DE smashes into Eli before he's had time to even plant his back foot. Flowers in particular but the entire line was that bad.  To say Eli is oblivious to the rush is just hating. The sacks don't even begin to measure the number of times Eli pressured and hit early in the season. Yes, Eli was looking at the rush. Because his life depended on it. The line was not trust worthy in anyway. In the second half it became more so and Eli's play improved. Defending the Giants in the beginning of the season was stupidly simple. Rush 4, watch them get home and get other 7back. Blitzes weren't needed. Ever.

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18 hours ago, Boone22 said:

You’re misunderstanding me.  Eli can’t feel the pressure.  That’s the difference between him and Peyton and Brady.  Both Peyton and Brady knew how to slide around in the pocket.  You don’t need to be a running QB to avoid the rush.  You just need to be able to feel the pressure coming and move away from it.  Eli is oblivious to it. 

Well then how do you explain the fact that Brady has been sacked more often than Eli ... despite being on a better team with a better oline for almost his entire career.

Is Eli just getting worse ??? Looking at the stats ... Eli was sacked 31 times through his 1st 8 games and only 16 time through his final 8 games so ....it actually looks like Eli iis  becoming more elusive in his old age. Or maybe the line was just playing better the 2nd half of the season. 

Which do you think it is?

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First off I never said the o-line doesn’t suck.  The combination of a bad o-line and Eli not being able to sense the pressure when it comes is the problem.  As for Brady having more sacks... Bradys been Starting for 17 years vs Eli’s 14 years so there’s a 3 year difference.  You’d expect Brady to have more sacks.  

 

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1 hour ago, Boone22 said:

First off I never said the o-line doesn’t suck.  The combination of a bad o-line and Eli not being able to sense the pressure when it comes is the problem.  As for Brady having more sacks... Bradys been Starting for 17 years vs Eli’s 14 years so there’s a 3 year difference.  You’d expect Brady to have more sacks.  

 

They are both averaging 28 sacks per 16 games for their careers ... Eli's percentage is slightly less than Brady's

Prior to this season Eli was averaging  27 sacks per 16 games for his career this year he was sacked 47 times  ... by far the most of his career

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On 1/4/2019 at 12:41 PM, monk said:

Deshaun Watson was sacked like 58 times with a better oline 

Brady is a statue and Peyton was a statue but these guys never got sacked.

Eli has always been a statue but this is the most he's ever been sacked by far. 

Watson did not have a better offensive line. At best, it was equally as bad as the Giants line.

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1 hour ago, dhockster said:

Watson did not have a better offensive line. At best, it was equally as bad as the Giants line.

Not throwing stones and I didn't watch the game, but it seemed like Houston lived on its D (which was clearly better than the Giants D) with just enough magic from Watson this season. Watson seemed to have no answers this weekend when the chips were down. I am not dissin' Watson. Rather simply underscoring the point that one guy can only do so much to make for the 5 guys in front of him. Sometimes those 5 guys stink so bad, you can't tell what you really have.

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Kyler Murray or Dwayne Haskins ?

I think I would take Murray if he was available at 6 ... I would not take Haskins unless he dropped to the 2nd round or trade up if he dropped to the bottom of the 1st  round 

Murray with Barkley, Odell, Engram, Shepherd and the other WR, TE  and FB pieces is about as dynamic an offense that you will find

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6 hours ago, monk said:

Kyler Murray or Dwayne Haskins ?

I think I would take Murray if he was available at 6 ... I would not take Haskins unless he dropped to the 2nd round or trade up if he dropped to the bottom of the 1st  round 

Murray with Barkley, Odell, Engram, Shepherd and the other WR, TE  and FB pieces is about as dynamic an offense that you will find

Haskins isn't falling to the 2nd round 

I have a hard time buying Gettelman, the "hog mollie" lover, taking a 5'9 QB 

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

Haskins isn't falling to the 2nd round 

I have a hard time buying Gettelman, the "hog mollie" lover, taking a 5'9 QB 

I know that ... but I definitely would not take Haskins with the 6 pick in the draft ... the next opportunity is the 2nd rd or trading up into the 1st round to get him ... I would only consider that if he dropped to the bottom half of the 1st. I'm not big on Haskins and I am not big on drafting a QBs high just because you need one ... I cant think of a time that that has ever worked out for any team. 

I would only take a QB early if I thought that he was a Franchise QB ... otherwise stick with Eli, sign Free agent, or trade for a QB like Flacco. I think Murray could be a Franchise QB like Russel Wilson or like what Mayfield looks like he could be and certainly better than Lamar Jackson. 

Hog Mollie is referring to his Oline ... I don't think he wants a Hog Mollie at QB and the 5' 9" thing is some crazy new rumor that has been started since we heard he will declare for the draft. He's listed at 5'10 - 5'11"

 

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9 hours ago, monk said:

Kyler Murray or Dwayne Haskins ?

I think I would take Murray if he was available at 6 ... I would not take Haskins unless he dropped to the 2nd round or trade up if he dropped to the bottom of the 1st  round 

Murray with Barkley, Odell, Engram, Shepherd and the other WR, TE  and FB pieces is about as dynamic an offense that you will find

Neither? I don't watch college football, but I am not interested in an extra short QB. I was reading something from a talking head, maybe Kannel?, that was saying the 5-11 is generous as is his playing weight of 195. This screams "too small" to me. I like Haskin's moxie in trying to temp the star players, but I don't think he is a top 10 pick sorta player. Would rather they focus on the lines. 

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Another high 1st Round QB ..#1 pick that couldnt hold Eli's jock strap when it comes to big games.

I'd rather pay Foles who has proved it

 

Edited by monk

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I think that I was able to change the thread title

 

Moving onto the 2019 season.

The Giants have some big questions to answer before they move forward

Is Eli going to be the QB next season?

Are they going to cut OV?

Are they going to cut Jackrabbit?

Will they take a QB in the 1st round?

Will they franchise Collins?

How will they fix the OL?

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I’ll give my answers

Is Eli going to be the QB next season?

I think he will be. I can see the Giants extending him into 2020 in an effort to reduce his 2019 cap number.

Are they going to cut OV?

Tough call here. He hasn’t played up to his cap number but is by far the best pass rusher on the roster, he is also really good against the run.

Are they going to cut Jackrabbit?

I think they should keep him

Will they take a QB in the 1st round?

I would prefer an edge rusher in the 1st round but I wouldn’t be mad if they took Haskins (provided they don’t trade up to do so)

Will they franchise Collins?  

They probably should

How will they fix the OL?

Sign a vet to play RT and draft a guy they can develop at tackle in the 2nd or 4th round to take over for Solder in a couple of years.

Edited by Yenrub

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18 hours ago, Yenrub said:

The Giants have some big questions to answer before they move forward

Is Eli going to be the QB next season?

Yes. I think he starts the season. I can't see any other QB on the roster starting, I can't see a draftee starting and I don't think they'll sign any FAs capable of beating Eli out of the position. If they chase QB before OLine, the problems will just continue.

Are they going to cut OV?

I feel that OV is gone. I am not sure what is wrong here, but seems less like a fit now than it did.

Are they going to cut Jackrabbit?

I hope not. There is noone left in secondary that has close to his coverage skills. This is a huge hole on a team with many of them. Losing Jackrabbit will make that hole deeper.

Will they take a QB in the 1st round?

I hope not. I want OL or DL. I suppose I might be ok with the OSU guy, but it will need to couple with strong focus on Oline.

Will they franchise Collins?

I am hoping they don't have to, but I think they'd be foolish not to lock him up anyway they can. Ideally they agree on a contract before they use the tag.

How will they fix the OL?

They need to find a dependable RT first and foremost. Wheeler did a great job, considering that is basically a backup at best. After that I think they need to look in upgrading the RG and Center, in that order. OL must be a draft focus for multiple years. 

 

And a positive sign that the front office can recognize mistakes. Stewart's option is not being picked up. Whew. Reese? I am sure he would have re-upped for 100M over the next 2 years.

 

Edited by IrishTwinkie

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19 hours ago, Yenrub said:

I’ll give my answers

Is Eli going to be the QB next season?

I think he will be. I can see the Giants extending him into 2020 in an effort to reduce his 2019 cap number.

I agree with this and I think he should be back. He had a very good year while learning a new offense 

Are they going to cut OV?

Tough call here. He hasn’t played up to his cap number but is by far the best pass rusher on the roster, he is also really good against the run.

I watched OV very closely this season and was thouroughly unimpressed. He takes plays off, doesnt hustle and never seems to come up with a big play ... I would take Kerry Wynn over him in a heartbeat.

 Are they going to cut Jackrabbit?

I think they should keep him

They kinda have to keep him ... he's pretty good and their DB depth is terrible 

Will they take a QB in the 1st round?

I would prefer an edge rusher in the 1st round but I wouldn’t be mad if they took Haskins (provided they don’t trade up to do so)

God I hope not ... Rather sign a free agent or wait until the 2nd round ... I don't see a franchise QB in the draft . I'd take Murray, Jones or Lock in the 2nd  ... though I would much rather wait until next year when there are a number of franchise QBs 

Will they franchise Collins?  

They probably should

Not sure there is anyone else worth using it on 

How will they fix the OL?

Sign a vet to play RT and draft a guy they can develop at tackle in the 2nd or 4th round to take over for Solder in a couple of years.

I'd like them to Draft Jonah Williams for RT until he takes over for Solder and try to sign a center i.e. Matt Paradis ... That would solve the line problem

After the 2nd Round (OT and Possibly QB) ... I'm drafting primarily defense 

Edited by monk

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23 hours ago, Yenrub said:

I think that I was able to change the thread title

 

Moving onto the 2019 season, the Giants have some big questions to answer before they move forward

Is Eli going to be the QB next season?

It makes more sense to draft a QB in the first round and keep Eli for 2019 than sign a FA QB not named Kaepernick

 

Are they going to cut OV?

I think he's got to go. His figure is too massive and he wasn't close to a difference-maker run or pass. Once Snacks left Giants got destroyed in the run game.

 

Are they going to cut Jackrabbit?

If the Giants had a good read on Beal and he was legit, I could see cutting Jenkins. But not now, you need him and LC to return back to form.

 

Will they take a QB in the 1st round?

Oh yeah, you put Dwyane Haskins and his athletic talent behind Eli Manning and his knowledge, the future will be bright for the NY Giants.

 

Will they franchise Collins?

I think you have to tag him. You have to keep two of Vernon/Jenkins/Collins, and I pick the last two.

 

How will they fix the OL?

It'll hurt not taking an OL in the 1st, but they can still strike gold in Rounds 2-4, and try to sign a vet FA RT to replace Wheeler. Halapio will be back sometime by late Training camp (May?) and he can be a rotational piece.

This is goign to be a tricky offseason and draft, because the Giants are straddling Reload/Rebuild mode here. With Saquon Barkley removing all doubt who's the best player in the 2018 Draft, Giants have TWO Top 5 players at their position on O. If they can cobble together even a slightly above-average O line and tap into the depth at WR (Corey Coleman, Bennie Fowler and Cody Latimer looked like legit pieces the last 3-4 games of the year), that O is going to put up 24-28 a game.

 

The D has a ton of questions... what do you do with Olivier Vernon, Janoris Jenkins, and Landon Collins? The bend-but-don't-break D broke hard once Snacks left, and BJ Hill and Dalvin Tomlinson had to learn their job on the fly. There were some bright spots at LB with BJ Goodson, Lorenzo Carter and OCCASIONALLY Curtis Riley, but it was rough most of the year. Giants have to find a way to get depth on O and D as they are very top-heavy, but they did find some gems as Spencer Pulley and Jamon Brown helped turn a godawful line into a kinda passable NFL O-Line most times.

 

Finally, Eli... this is his last rodeo. If for one last year he can tap into what made him a great QB back in the day (mind games, making other players better), Giants make the playoffs. But the Giants HAVE to get his successor this year. I hear a lto of chatter on Kyler Murray and it's too risky; that dude wants to play baseball and you can't waste a 1st round pick. Not a fan of Daniel Jones or Drew Lock either, take the guy with the strong arm, good size, and athletic background in Ohio State's Dwyane Haskins.

Edited by The Frankman

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If the Giants were bad with an experienced veteran QB at the helm last year what do you expect from a rookie that is described as a raw talent. By the time Haskins is a serviceable QB Barkley will be in his 3rd or 4th season and Odell may not even be here anymore

Build the Oline this season and get your QB of the future next season when multiple franchise QBs are available

Haskins isnt even the prosepct that Jameis Winston was and look how that turned out ... it's throwing away a high 1st round pick to take a QB just because he is the best QB available in a bad QB Draft ...The Jets and Browns had been doing this for years ... The Browns lucked into Mayfiled the Jets will be darfting another QB in 3 years  

 

 

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On 2/9/2019 at 11:00 AM, monk said:

If the Giants were bad with an experienced veteran QB at the helm last year what do you expect from a rookie that is described as a raw talent. By the time Haskins is a serviceable QB Barkley will be in his 3rd or 4th season and Odell may not even be here anymore

Build the Oline this season and get your QB of the future next season when multiple franchise QBs are available

Haskins isnt even the prosepct that Jameis Winston was and look how that turned out ... it's throwing away a high 1st round pick to take a QB just because he is the best QB available in a bad QB Draft ...The Jets and Browns had been doing this for years ... The Browns lucked into Mayfiled the Jets will be darfting another QB in 3 years

I looked at his tape and I see at worst better passing Lamar Jackson who doesn't run as much. He made all the tough throws, he can read a defense, and he has the strong arm you want in December at Metlife. Besides, I don't expect him to start immediately; he'd sit and learn behind Eli for a year.

 

For all the talk about franchise QBs what do you see on his tape that he can't do? He made the zone throws, he challenged the ball downfield and he has the athleticism to escape the pocket. Jameis was a knucklehead, first and foremost and he may never realize his talent because of that. Haskins doesn't have that issue.

Edited by The Frankman

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On 2/11/2019 at 7:39 PM, The Frankman said:

I looked at his tape and I see at worst better passing Lamar Jackson who doesn't run as much. He made all the tough throws, he can read a defense, and he has the strong arm you want in December at Metlife. Besides, I don't expect him to start immediately; he'd sit and learn behind Eli for a year.

 

For all the talk about franchise QBs what do you see on his tape that he can't do? He made the zone throws, he challenged the ball downfield and he has the athleticism to escape the pocket. Jameis was a knucklehead, first and foremost and he may never realize his talent because of that. Haskins doesn't have that issue.

From what I have seen he looks a bit stiff and the way he leans over his front foot on throws is a  bit awkward.  He also seems to lock on one receiver on almost all of the throws in the link posted earlier and I didnt see him making many throws while moving around the pocket. Just seems like a regular guy ... nothing special.

QBs these days need to be able to make throws on the run. Even most of the successful pocket passers can throw while moving in the pocket.

Rodgers, Brees, Wilson, Mahomes, Watson and Mayfield ... I want someone is this mold. 

I'll take an Kyler Murray over chumps like Rosen, Darnold and Haskins. Also why draft someone to sit on the Bench when you can wait a year and target a guy who is ready to start immediately ...like Tua , Herbert, or Fromm. Maybe you have to trade up for them but worry about that later. They might even have to trade up to get Haskins which would be a complete disaster.

 

Edited by monk

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Giants, Jags, Broncos, Dolphins, Washington, all need QBs.  Only one QB has been taken in the first round in recent drafts where the team drafting them did not move up and that was last year with the Browns taking Baker Mayfield with the 1st pick so no one could jump ahead of them.  

I think  that some other team will trade ahead of the Giants unless they move up to make sure they can get Haskins.More talk of Giants trading Odell Beckham  >>>

Quote

 

... Jay Glazer, who writes in his latest piece at The Athletic, “I predict Odell Beckham Jr. gets traded this off-season.”

Glazer made clear that this is a prediction, not a report, but it underscores the fact that talk of a Beckham trade is not going away.

 

SF picks 2nd.  Boza universally is predicted to go first and rumors of Arizona taking Kyler Murray persist so Haskins 'apparently' will be available with San Francisco's pick at #2.

OBJ to 49ers trade remains a possibility  >>>

Quote

...The 49ers have had real interest in Beckham for nearly a year;

ODB is worth more than just moving up four spots in the draft IMHO so I think SF would also give up their 2nd round pick to even out thee deal.

The Giants could take Haskins and draft a WR in the 2nd round or maybe take the extra 2nd round pick and turn around and trade it for Antonio Brown.

The interest of SF for ODB and how the Giants have a need at QB and how other teams have a need .... The contract for ODB makes it easy to move.  SF is loaded on the D-Line and the 'best' player available at the #2 pick would be a D-Lineman making it easier for them to move out of that spot...  

Lots of time before the draft but this NY Giant ODB trade talk to SF by Jay Glazer who is the only guy I trust...  

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46 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Giants, Jags, Broncos, Dolphins, Washington, all need QBs.  Only one QB has been taken in the first round in recent drafts where the team drafting them did not move up and that was last year with the Browns taking Baker Mayfield with the 1st pick so no one could jump ahead of them.  

I think  that some other team will trade ahead of the Giants unless they move up to make sure they can get Haskins.More talk of Giants trading Odell Beckham  >>>

SF picks 2nd.  Boza universally is predicted to go first and rumors of Arizona taking Kyler Murray persist so Haskins 'apparently' will be available with San Francisco's pick at #2.

OBJ to 49ers trade remains a possibility  >>>

ODB is worth more than just moving up four spots in the draft IMHO so I think SF would also give up their 2nd round pick to even out thee deal.

The Giants could take Haskins and draft a WR in the 2nd round or maybe take the extra 2nd round pick and turn around and trade it for Antonio Brown.

The interest of SF for ODB and how the Giants have a need at QB and how other teams have a need .... The contract for ODB makes it easy to move.  SF is loaded on the D-Line and the 'best' player available at the #2 pick would be a D-Lineman making it easier for them to move out of that spot...  

Lots of time before the draft but this NY Giant ODB trade talk to SF by Jay Glazer who is the only guy I trust...  

Personally, I think you are overestimating Odell's worth. Remember what Washington gave up to move from 6th to 2nd to get Robert Griffin: a 1st and 2nd in 2012 and a first in 2013. I don't think SF will be sending a 2nd to even out the deal. I think it might just be Odell to move up, or Odell and the Giants giving a 2nd to move up.

Even more recently, the Eagles gave up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd essentially to move up from 8 to 2 to take Wentz. Remember that it is the Giants who are going to have to give more because they are the ones trying to move up to get their franchise QB. SF doesn't have to make a deal and they will still be fine.

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It would be folly to trade ODB. Neither of the QBs are all that. They'd be throwing good money at a prayer, not address their glaring need at OL and taking away a weapon on O. Its foolish.

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12 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Giants, Jags, Broncos, Dolphins, Washington, all need QBs.  Only one QB has been taken in the first round in recent drafts where the team drafting them did not move up and that was last year with the Browns taking Baker Mayfield with the 1st pick so no one could jump ahead of them.  

I think  that some other team will trade ahead of the Giants unless they move up to make sure they can get Haskins.More talk of Giants trading Odell Beckham  >>>

Quote

 

... Jay Glazer, who writes in his latest piece at The Athletic, “I predict Odell Beckham Jr. gets traded this off-season.”

Glazer made clear that this is a prediction, not a report, but it underscores the fact that talk of a Beckham trade is not going away.

 

 

 

Why do so many people who call themselves professionals leave out the context of Glazer's prediction?

He was asked to make a "bold prediction."

If you ask a weatherman to predict the amount of snow that's going to fall in an upcoming storm, he looks at the data, sees there's a 75% chance it's going to be in the 2-4" range and he tells you 3".

If you ask him to make a "bold prediction" about the storm, he tells you 10".  Not impossible, but the numbers would suggest there's less than a 5% chance of that actually happening.

It seems to me that this situation was like the latter example but everyone in the media is treating it like the former.

 

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I think the Giants should target RT in free agency. Either Trent Brown, Ja’Wuan James or Daryl Williams. Either one of those guys should help improve the OL. They also free the Giants up to take the best defensive player on the board at 6 (or take a QB if they like one but please don’t trade up).

They should also draft a developmental OT in the 2nd or 4th who should be groomed to take over for Solder at LT in a couple of years.

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13 hours ago, jhib said:

Why do so many people who call themselves professionals leave out the context of Glazer's prediction?

He was asked to make a "bold prediction."

I didn't see the "bold prediction" part. I guess I'll need to put away my pitchforks now. If it is like all these stupid mock drafts where they have the giants trading up for the first 32 picks in the first round, then I get that it is another lame attempt at generating clicks. But in the stuff I was seeing the "bold predicition" stuff was left off and it was being presented like a scoop.

 

I do know that I disappointed that I haven't seen a mock draft for 2020's draft yet. They seem behind.

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IMO, if ARI really does want Murray, the NYG should trade for Rosen.  They can probably get him for their 2nd round pick, which is close to being a 1st anyway, and maybe a little more.  If ARI is that down on a QB with Rosen's talent after 1 year of playing on a team with a supporting cast of an expansion team, they should be open to trading him and no way will they get a top 10 pick for him.  The NYG can let him sit behind Eli and learn for a year and then be ready to replace him next year.  Keep Beckham so Rosen, or whoever they draft at QB, has some talent surrounding him for the long term.  Plus, the dead money hit they would incur by trading Beckham is stupid at this point.  If they wanted to trade Beckham, they should have done it last year before they signed him to a long term deal.  In addition, as it has already been mentioned, why trade a young, proven elite player for an unknown, especially considering all of the other factors (cap hit and a young QB who will need some talent to throw to)? 

By doing this, the NYG could take BPA in the 1st (or trade down a little), and get an elite talent at QB with their 2nd.  Rosen can rebuild his confidence and learn from a stalwart like Eli for a year.  That would do him good and IMO he would then be ready to replace Eli for the long term.

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19 minutes ago, RC94 said:

IMO, if ARI really does want Murray, the NYG should trade for Rosen.  They can probably get him for their 2nd round pick, which is close to being a 1st anyway, and maybe a little more.  If ARI is that down on a QB with Rosen's talent after 1 year of playing on a team with a supporting cast of an expansion team, they should be open to trading him and no way will they get a top 10 pick for him.  The NYG can let him sit behind Eli and learn for a year and then be ready to replace him next year.  Keep Beckham so Rosen, or whoever they draft at QB, has some talent surrounding him for the long term.  Plus, the dead money hit they would incur by trading Beckham is stupid at this point.  If they wanted to trade Beckham, they should have done it last year before they signed him to a long term deal.  In addition, as it has already been mentioned, why trade a young, proven elite player for an unknown, especially considering all of the other factors (cap hit and a young QB who will need some talent to throw to)? 

By doing this, the NYG could take BPA in the 1st (or trade down a little), and get an elite talent at QB with their 2nd.  Rosen can rebuild his confidence and learn from a stalwart like Eli for a year.  That would do him good and IMO he would then be ready to replace Eli for the long term.

Rosen for a 2nd

Take the best defensive player available at 6

Sign a RT in free agency

Where do I sign??

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

Rosen for a 2nd

Take the best defensive player available at 6

Sign a RT in free agency

Where do I sign??

Rosen is a dud ... there are 3 or 4 QBS in this draft that are better than Rosen and  none of them are worth a high 1st round pick  except maybe Murray .

Wait until next year when the QBs in the draft are woth it   

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3 minutes ago, monk said:

Rosen is a dud ... there are 3 or 4 QBS in this draft that are better than Rosen and  none of them are worth a high 1st round pick  except maybe Murray .

Wait until next year when the QBs in the draft are woth it   

I agree with this. I don't want Rosen. I'd rather sign Foles or wait until next year to draft a QB.

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On 1/12/2019 at 6:41 PM, monk said:

 I am not big on drafting a QBs high just because you need one ... I cant think of a time that that has ever worked out for any team.

Huh?  I assume you mean reaching on one?  It seems like Haskins is being rated pretty highly in most circles.

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5 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

Huh?  I assume you mean reaching on one?  It seems like Haskins is being rated pretty highly in most circles.

Haskins is being rated as possibly the best QB in a poor QB Draft  ... Like possibly being the tallest midget in the room 

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Between 2004 and 2017 52 QBs drafted in the 1st 2 rounds. Here's How these 52 QBs have done

https://www.newsday.com/sports/football/nfl-draft-how-these-52-qbs-have-done-1.2829033

Take away 2004 (eli, ben and rivers) and 2005 (Rodgers) and you have 0 Superbowls and only a handful of QBs that you would even want starting for your team. Ryan Cam and Stafford 

Most of these guyes were rated higher or as high as Haskins is going to be.

Do not waste the pick on Haskins ... Vote NO on Haskins !!!!! Haskins is a never has been !!!!!!

 

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14 hours ago, monk said:

Between 2004 and 2017 52 QBs drafted in the 1st 2 rounds. Here's How these 52 QBs have done

https://www.newsday.com/sports/football/nfl-draft-how-these-52-qbs-have-done-1.2829033

Take away 2004 (eli, ben and rivers) and 2005 (Rodgers) and you have 0 Superbowls and only a handful of QBs that you would even want starting for your team. Ryan Cam and Stafford 

Most of these guyes were rated higher or as high as Haskins is going to be.

Do not waste the pick on Haskins ... Vote NO on Haskins !!!!! Haskins is a never has been !!!!!!

 

You missed Joe Flacco who won a Super bowl.

So from 2004 to 2017, the only Super Bowl winning QB's who were not drafted in the first 2 rounds were Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, and Nick Foles. Brady is a true outlier, and Foles won with a team that reasonably could have won the Super Bowl with their injured first string QB who was a first round pick.

And you wouldn't want Luck, Goff, or Wentz starting for your Giants?

Drafting a QB high is not a guarantee of success, but you generally will get a more talented QB the higher you draft them. A lot of times talent leads to success.

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On 2/20/2019 at 2:28 PM, monk said:

Rosen is a dud ... there are 3 or 4 QBS in this draft that are better than Rosen and  none of them are worth a high 1st round pick  except maybe Murray .

Wait until next year when the QBs in the draft are woth it   

To be fair to Rosen, there wasn't a single QB in the NFL put in a tougher situation. 

*Didn't get 1st team reps in camp

*Team had a new(and very bad) coach, so no veterans were around to teach the offense, because it was new to them too.

*80% of the week 1 starting o-line ended up on IR

*Lost Kirk to IR, who Rosen had the best rapport with, and was 1 of the only pass catchers showing a pulse at times

*Switched OC's during the season

I'd take Rosen over any QB in this draft other than Murray personally, and while he certainly had a poor rookie year, I don't think it should be fully held against him. Most veteran QB's would have struggled in that offense last year, they earned that #1 pick. I do love Kyler Murray, and if the Cards think as highly of him as I do, they should consider taking him, but if they do, 10+ teams should immediately call about Rosen, and the Giants are absolutely one of them, especially since then they can go BPA at #6.

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On 2/26/2019 at 8:32 PM, monk said:

Between 2004 and 2017 52 QBs drafted in the 1st 2 rounds. Here's How these 52 QBs have done

https://www.newsday.com/sports/football/nfl-draft-how-these-52-qbs-have-done-1.2829033

Take away 2004 (eli, ben and rivers) and 2005 (Rodgers) and you have 0 Superbowls and only a handful of QBs that you would even want starting for your team. Ryan Cam and Stafford 

Most of these guyes were rated higher or as high as Haskins is going to be.

Do not waste the pick on Haskins ... Vote NO on Haskins !!!!! Haskins is a never has been !!!!!!

 

Whew, that list is brutal. And it really is only a handful of QBs. I'd add Luck to your list of viable starters. But that list is totally scary. Just underscores my desire to see them strengthen the OLine 

 

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On 2/27/2019 at 11:36 AM, dhockster said:

You missed Joe Flacco who won a Super bowl.

So from 2004 to 2017, the only Super Bowl winning QB's who were not drafted in the first 2 rounds were Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, and Nick Foles. Brady is a true outlier, and Foles won with a team that reasonably could have won the Super Bowl with their injured first string QB who was a first round pick.

And you wouldn't want Luck, Goff, or Wentz starting for your Giants?

Drafting a QB high is not a guarantee of success, but you generally will get a more talented QB the higher you draft them. A lot of times talent leads to success.

I accidentally left off Luck and Yes Flacco won a Superbowl but I wouldn't want him as my Starting QB and I certainly wouldn't use a high 1st round pick on him knowing what we know of him.

As far as Goff and Wentz ...to early to tell in my opinion. Goff was on a very good team and was a complete disaster in the Superbowl. And there is no way the Eagle would have won the SB with Wentz  ... they are a better team with Foles no question about it ... he proved that 2 years in a row and has a better winning % with the Eagles than Wentz.   

You could only Draft a talented QB high if there is a talented QB in the draft and as the stats prove ... there rarely is.

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13 hours ago, travdogg said:

To be fair to Rosen, there wasn't a single QB in the NFL put in a tougher situation. 

*Didn't get 1st team reps in camp

*Team had a new(and very bad) coach, so no veterans were around to teach the offense, because it was new to them too.

*80% of the week 1 starting o-line ended up on IR

*Lost Kirk to IR, who Rosen had the best rapport with, and was 1 of the only pass catchers showing a pulse at times

*Switched OC's during the season

I'd take Rosen over any QB in this draft other than Murray personally, and while he certainly had a poor rookie year, I don't think it should be fully held against him. Most veteran QB's would have struggled in that offense last year, they earned that #1 pick. I do love Kyler Murray, and if the Cards think as highly of him as I do, they should consider taking him, but if they do, 10+ teams should immediately call about Rosen, and the Giants are absolutely one of them, especially since then they can go BPA at #6.

I agree on Murray ... And I agree Rosen had it tough but he will never be a very good QB and his attitude sux.

You're crazy if you'd give up a top 6 pick for Rosen ... he went 10th last year and his stock has dropped considerably 

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3 minutes ago, monk said:

I agree on Murray ... And I agree Rosen had it tough but he will never be a very good QB and his attitude sux.

You're crazy if you'd give up a top 6 pick for Rosen ... he went 10th last year and his stock has dropped considerably 

I didn't say anything about giving up a top-6 pick for Rosen. I said trading for him would allow the Giants to not spend the 6th pick on a QB. I was thinking he could be had(in the event the Cards go Murray) for a 2nd plus a little sugar.

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23 minutes ago, monk said:

I accidentally left off Luck and Yes Flacco won a Superbowl but I wouldn't want him as my Starting QB and I certainly wouldn't use a high 1st round pick on him knowing what we know of him.

As far as Goff and Wentz ...to early to tell in my opinion. Goff was on a very good team and was a complete disaster in the Superbowl. And there is no way the Eagle would have won the SB with Wentz  ... they are a better team with Foles no question about it ... he proved that 2 years in a row and has a better winning % with the Eagles than Wentz.   

You could only Draft a talented QB high if there is a talented QB in the draft and as the stats prove ... there rarely is.

Disagree about Wentz. There is no guarantee he would have won the Super Bowl in 2017, but he would have had a very good shot. When he got hurt in L.A. he was 11-2 and the leader for MVP consideration. His winning percentage actually was better than Foles in 2017 (11-2 vs. 5-1). In Wentz's 3 years he had a decent rookie year when he had virtually no weapons on offense other than Ertz, He had an MVP type season in his second year, and for all the grief he gets about last year, his QB rating was actually higher than 2017 despite an absolutely awful game in New Orleans when he threw 3 interceptions, 2 of which came in garbage time when the game was clearly over. Take away the New Orleans game and Wentz threw 21 TD's with 4 ints and a completion % close to 70%, all while possibly playing with a back injury part of the time.

But I understand your point that you don't think Haskins is talented enough to take with a high first round draft pick. I don't disagree with that. The problem for the Giants is they have so mishandled moving on from Eli over the last couple seasons that people are clamoring for them to take someone who will clearly be "The Guy" going forward. Whether it makes sense to take a QB high is almost irrelevant to some people.

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15 hours ago, The Frankman said:

https://www.bigblueview.com/2019/3/1/18244587/dave-gettleman-wants-instincts-from-a-qb-so-who-has-them-nfl-draft-kyler-murray-dwayne-haskins

 

Interesting viewpoint on "Gettleman-speak". If you read between the lines, it sounds likehe's talking about Haskins as the pick.

If they want Haskins they are probably going to have to trade up to get him, especially if the Jags don't get Foles in free agency

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