Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Yenrub

Infinite New York football Giants thread

Recommended Posts

Tanking early for Trevor Lawrence. Bold strategy. I like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peppers seems to replace Collins role.

Perhaps they had this deal in mind when they released him?

What kind of money did they give Bethea?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bucky86 said:

Tanking early for Trevor Lawrence. Bold strategy. I like it.

Yeah, we've thrown strategy out the window here. They're just winging it now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Jello_Biafra said:

Yeah, we've thrown strategy out the window here. They're just winging it now.

They will probably take the QB kid from Duke with #17 - then I can officially stop giving a #### 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

If you look at the moves, it's a carbon copy of the Ralph Vacchiano article... Gettlemen has a definite plan of asset allocation, and then he saw a deal that in his mind was too good to pass up. Giants got a 1st and a 3rd and a cost-controlled good young safety... who by the way played better as a box safety.

 

...

Edited by The Frankman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

Bump Shepard and Engram for sure right?? 

Engram especially. He's been a top-5 guy whenever Beckham has been out. They'll have a entire offseason to build the passing game around him.

I actually don't think this is an awful deal by the Giants. They weren't going to be a playoff threat with Beckham, and they seem to feel he'd have been a distraction, and one only needs to look at Antonio Brown to see how a guy can torpedo his own trade value, so a good young cheap safety, and a 1st and 3rd isn't a bad haul. Of course, they should have just moved on from Eli 3 years ago, and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation, but we're here, so why not try something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, travdogg said:

I actually don't think this is an awful deal by the Giants. They weren't going to be a playoff threat with Beckham, and they seem to feel he'd have been a distraction, and one only needs to look at Antonio Brown to see how a guy can torpedo his own trade value, so a good young cheap safety, and a 1st and 3rd isn't a bad haul. Of course, they should have just moved on from Eli 3 years ago, and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation, but we're here, so why not try something.

For a Top 3 receiver, that's not enough. Giants should've at least asked for a 2020 2nd rounder also; if the Giants are counting Peppers as a 1st rounder (he was drafted in the 1st round in 2017) nah eff that.You saw the haul Atlanta had to give for Juilo Jones in the draft? You have to get something similar to that.

Edited by The Frankman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Deangelo williams

I tried to tell u @Giants fans Dave was your problem but u laughed and called me bitter! Well welcome to the salt wagon jump on and let’s ride together lol

 

 

:lmao: 

  • Like 3
  • Laughing 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Since taking over Gettleman did the following:

1. Refused to take a QB in last years draft

2. Keeps relying on washed up Eli Manning

3. Drafted a stud RB with NO Offensive Line ignoring all their other issues

4. Traded Harrison, Vernon, and Beckham for practically nothing

5. Let go of Collins for nothing

6. Signed a bad LT to a record contract

After all this, you have a team with NO defense, an old/washed up QB earning $22mil, one extra 1st round draft pick, numerous holes, and a stud RB to build around. Seems like a solid way to rebuild a team. We have a new contender for worst GM in football.

Edited by shadyridr
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Bucky86 said:

Deangelo williams

I tried to tell u @Giants fans Dave was your problem but u laughed and called me bitter! Well welcome to the salt wagon jump on and let’s ride together lol

 

 

:lmao: 

The real problem is Mara

There seems to be some truth in this podcast called "Big Blur Bubble Boy". It suggest that Mara is influenced greatly by Mike Francesa 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

The real problem is Mara

There seems to be some truth in this podcast called "Big Blur Bubble Boy". It suggest that Mara is influenced greatly by Mike Francesa 

Dear God no.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, The Frankman said:

They traded Saquon?

 

The reason you keep Eli is the hit is only for one year. I'm shocked they traded Odell but this is a pretty blatant attempt to restock the cupboard. This also seems to indicate the Giants probably won't take a QB with the #6 pick.

My bad I forgot about Saquon during my disgust for this trade last night. So I stand corrected the Giants let go 2 of their best 3 young players in attempt to rebuild.

This trade sucks! Everyone is so damn enamored with draft picks. The draft is an inexact science, it’s a damn crap shoot. Teams are HOPING that they turn their draft picks into guys who can play in the league. You know like OBJ can.

OBJ has PROVEN to be an ELITE level player in the NFL. Peppers has been somewhat of a disappointment in Cleveland. The #17 pick? Is that guy going to be ELITE? If they are lucky he will be GOOD. The 3rd round pick? Give me a damn break!! Cleveland had two of them and they gave the Giants the worst of the two.

Maybe the Giants will get lucky and the this bad trade will work out for them. Kind of like they got lucky when they made the bad trade to move up and get Eli. Yes I think the Eli trade was bad, at no point in his career was Eli five players better than Rivers or Ben. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Dear God no.  

I listened to it the other day while watching my daughter's soccer team take a 4-0 loss. They have Evan Silva on there and he points out a few too many coincidences for me to ignore, especially after this Beckham trade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This roller coaster might not yet be over...

Quote

A lot of rumblings the #Giants are planning something big today as part 2 of the OBJ trade. Let's just hope that doesn't mean overpaying for two free agents. No point in spending now. The only "big" thing that makes any sense is trading No. 37 overall for Josh Rosen. #GiantsPride

https://twitter.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1105840483757101056?s=19

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

This roller coaster might not yet be over...

https://twitter.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1105840483757101056?s=19

Bringing in Blake Bortles to be groomed as the heir apparent to Eli's throne. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Giants are positioned to rebuild the roster while getting a chance at Tua, Fromm, and Lawrence in the next two years.

They just need to focus on BPA this draft regardless of position. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Balco said:

I think Giants are positioned to rebuild the roster while getting a chance at Tua, Fromm, and Lawrence in the next two years.

They just need to focus on BPA this draft regardless of position. 

They should trade every pick they have this year, load up for next - complete tank like nothing ever seen before, massive rebuild next year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

They should trade every pick they have this year, load up for next - complete tank like nothing ever seen before, massive rebuild next year. 

I would definitely be aiming to keep Barkley healthy (Vernon for Zeitler helps this) but besides that, I wouldn’t be spending money in free agency. 

Take BPA in every round in draft, look at cap situation and figure out who else can go (I would take dead money hits this year).

finish 2-14 and take Tua next year.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Yenrub said:

My bad I forgot about Saquon during my disgust for this trade last night. So I stand corrected the Giants let go 2 of their best 3 young players in attempt to rebuild.

This trade sucks! Everyone is so damn enamored with draft picks. The draft is an inexact science, it’s a damn crap shoot. Teams are HOPING that they turn their draft picks into guys who can play in the league. You know like OBJ can.

OBJ has PROVEN to be an ELITE level player in the NFL. Peppers has been somewhat of a disappointment in Cleveland. The #17 pick? Is that guy going to be ELITE? If they are lucky he will be GOOD. The 3rd round pick? Give me a damn break!! Cleveland had two of them and they gave the Giants the worst of the two.

Maybe the Giants will get lucky and the this bad trade will work out for them. Kind of like they got lucky when they made the bad trade to move up and get Eli. Yes I think the Eli trade was bad, at no point in his career was Eli five players better than Rivers or Ben

He won 2 Superbowls ... they likely would not have won either of them without Eli.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They need to make sure to tank in 2020 for Lawrence and not take a QB this year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

They need to make sure to tank in 2020 for Lawrence and not take a QB this year. 

Some team will tank for him.  Fans will easily forgive the team for doing it too.  Will the Players???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Balco said:

I think Giants are positioned to rebuild the roster while getting a chance at Tua, Fromm, and Lawrence in the next two years.

They just need to focus on BPA this draft regardless of position. 

They needed to do that before the trade. This doesn't change anything except we gave away a top WR that they will never get in the draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When/if Gettleman has a press conference to talk about this offseason, I'm expecting him to say "Joke's on you!  I'm actually working for the Eagles."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jello_Biafra said:

Now Golden Tate. Jordy Nelson is available. Gettleman should jump all over that.

Nothing says rebuild like trading away a 26 year old WR, then signing a 31 year old WR to a 4 year deal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure of the Giants focus now... Giants made a lot of signings today:

 

- Signed Golden Tate, which seems to me the Giants with rotate Sheperd and Tate in the slot. Coleman or Latimer will play the Y in a lot of 3 receiver sets, Benny Fowler is either let go of becomes the #5 WR/Special Teamer.

- Lost BW Webb (thank you!) but re-signed CB Tony Lippett to a one-year contract. Lippet wasn't bad but nothing special, a Webb replacement.

- Signed OLB Markus Golden on a prove-it deal.

 

I have no idea what the plan is, it feels like they should tank but signing Tate to that deal means they aren't tanking. This is the infuriating thing about Gettleman (y'know besides bad deals). He says one thing and does something the opposite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

I'm not sure of the Giants focus now... Giants made a lot of signings today:

 

- Signed Golden Tate, which seems to me the Giants with rotate Sheperd and Tate in the slot. Coleman or Latimer will play the Y in a lot of 3 receiver sets, Benny Fowler is either let go of becomes the #5 WR/Special Teamer.

- Lost BW Webb (thank you!) but re-signed CB Tony Lippett to a one-year contract. Lippet wasn't bad but nothing special, a Webb replacement.

- Signed OLB Markus Golden on a prove-it deal.

 

I have no idea what the plan is, it feels like they should tank but signing Tate to that deal means they aren't tanking. This is the infuriating thing about Gettleman (y'know besides bad deals). He says one thing and does something the opposite.

I like the Markus Golden signing 

I wouldn't be surprised (with Golden Tate getting a four year deal) if Getty traded away Sheperd 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

I like the Markus Golden signing 

I wouldn't be surprised (with Golden Tate getting a four year deal) if Getty traded away Sheperd 

Right. Sheperd and Engram had the slot covered, adding another slot receiver makes little sense to me. Shepperd has talent so maybe he progresses as a wr this year. Hoping to find something positive here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean I think Sheperd has the goods to play outside so that part of the equation doesn't bother me. but that much money for Tate and $23 guaranteed? That's not a tank team move. Hell, I think the Giants could've gone with Sheperd/Coleman/Latimer/Fowler with Engram and Barkley and been ok, they're going run-heavy with West Coast Offense principles anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

I mean I think Sheperd has the goods to play outside so that part of the equation doesn't bother me. but that much money for Tate and $23 guaranteed? That's not a tank team move. Hell, I think the Giants could've gone with Sheperd/Coleman/Latimer/Fowler with Engram and Barkley and been ok, they're going run-heavy with West Coast Offense principles anyway.

I would have liked to see them throw some of that Tate money at Daryl Williams who resigned in Carolina for something small, I think it 7m 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow the gettleman cluelessness continues. Are they rebuilding or not? No one knows not even the gm. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

Wow the gettleman cluelessness continues. Are they rebuilding or not? No one knows not even the gm. 

He’s not rebuilding, they traded obj because he’s a diva. Tate Is really bizarre given their roster though, Gentleman makes some weird moves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

He’s not rebuilding, they traded obj because he’s a diva. Tate Is really bizarre given their roster though, Gentleman makes some weird moves.

They traded Snacks Harrison, Vernon, OBJ, and let go of Collins so that part seems like rebuilding to me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

They traded Snacks Harrison, Vernon, OBJ, and let go of Collins so that part seems like rebuilding to me. 

Asset Allocation, at least I kinda get that part of the equation.


 

Quote

It's about asset allocation

This is a simple philosophy that was also followed by Gettleman's mentor, Ernie Accorsi, and even his predecessor, Jerry Reese, to an extent. Positions have a certain worth, and paying for more than that is how teams get into trouble. Offensive and defensive linemen, to Gettleman, are just more valuable than safeties - especially "box" safeties like Collins, whom the Giants believe wasn't always adequate in coverage.

"The Giants always used to say, 'This is what we think your player is worth,' and if you got a dollar over that they'd walk away," one NFL agent said. "Sounds like they're back to that again."

It's actually not just a hard financial line either. It's all in relation to the salary cap. Gettleman estimated he has about $27 million in cap space and wants to hold $8 million or so for use during the season. That leaves him around $19 million to use. Was Collins - or any safety -- worth nearly 60 percent of the Giants' available cap space? And the percentage is even higher when you figure the Giants just tendered restricted free agent receiver Corey Coleman, backup quarterback Alex Tanney, may sign a handful of their own unrestricted free agents, and probably need about $10 million to sign this year's draft class.

It was the same justification for the trade Gettleman completed on Friday, sending his best pass rusher, Olivier Vernon, to the Cleveland Browns for guard Kevin Zeitler. The cap hits for Vernon ($11.5 million) and Zeitler ($10 million) were almost the same. Gettleman felt using that money on a starting offensive linemen was better than using it on an under-achieving linebacker with injury issues.

Clearing out the bad contracts 

Gettleman believes in building through the draft and developing his own players, not spending wildly in free agency. He'd rather spend that money to keep the good players he has. But he inherited a roster that had deteriorated from years of bad drafting and was filled with players who were clearly not performing up to their deals. That's at least part of why he traded DE Jason Pierre-Paul (in the middle of a four-year, $62 million deal), DT Damon Harrison (five years, $46 million and traded Vernon (five years, $85 million).

The idea is to take a short-term cap hit in terms of dead money to help clear cap space in the future. And he wants to avoid restructuring contracts too, the way he did last summer with CB Janoris Jenkins. "You don't want to do that," Gettleman said last week. "You do not want to do that. Because that's kicking the can, kicking the can, kicking the can …"

That also explains why they won't restructure Manning's contract, since that would involve extending it beyond 2019, too.

Gettleman, of course, still won't say "rebuild"

Golden Tate signing proves Gettleman thinks Giants can win and rebuild in 2019

Quote

Buried at the bottom of the Giants' press release announcing the big Odell Beckham Jr. trade on Wednesday, was a quote from GM Dave Gettleman about his offseason plan.

"You can win while you build a roster," he said.

I'll say this... this dude is going to shock the world or be fired within 2-3 years.

Edited by The Frankman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@rockaction  

Per someone on twitter (so take for what that’s worth)

Francesa’s favorite WR available in free agency was Golden Tate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

@rockaction  

Per someone on twitter (so take for what that’s worth)

Francesa’s favorite WR available in free agency was Golden Tate

Wow. I also like Tate, but let's hope Francesa really doesn't have Mara's ear.

Four at 38 M. I wonder how much is guaranteed.

Edited by rockaction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rockaction said:

Wow. I also like Tate, but let's hope Francesa really doesn't have Mara's ear.

Four at 38 M. I wonder how much is guaranteed.

23 M is guaranteed 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Happy with the Vernon/OBJ trades, but this Tate move is pretty bizarre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

23 M is guaranteed 

Oh. That's a lot. I was hoping it would be two or three years for $26.5 M at about $14-16 M guaranteed. That seems the going rate for a YAC/slot guy.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/13/2019 at 7:51 AM, shadyridr said:

Since taking over Gettleman did the following:

1. Refused to take a QB in last years draft

2. Keeps relying on washed up Eli Manning

3. Drafted a stud RB with NO Offensive Line ignoring all their other issues

4. Traded Harrison, Vernon, and Beckham for practically nothing

5. Let go of Collins for nothing

6. Signed a bad LT to a record contract

After all this, you have a team with NO defense, an old/washed up QB earning $22mil, one extra 1st round draft pick, numerous holes, and a stud RB to build around. Seems like a solid way to rebuild a team. We have a new contender for worst GM in football.

Look at the above.  

Then look at this. 

On 3/13/2019 at 9:26 AM, Yenrub said:

The real problem is Mara

There seems to be some truth in this podcast called "Big Blur Bubble Boy". It suggest that Mara is influenced greatly by Mike Francesa 

Last year I thought Gettleman had lost his mind bypassing QB and taking a RB, or by not trading back and digging in taking a RB with the 2nd pick.  

He could have taken the NY Jet deal and trade down to #6 and still gotten Saquon + 3 extra 2nd round picks.  I put that on him but taking the RB over the QB who Mara favors is all on the owner IMHO.

2nd point is all Mara as is the 3rd point.

Beckham was a thorn in Mara's side.  HE is the one who wanted to dump him and Gettleman is the one who negotiated the extension and said multiple times he did not extend him in order to turn around and trade him.  He got his orders directly from Mara to get rid of Odell no matter what the cost.  

The only way letting go of Collins makes any sense is that Dorsey and Gettleman were throwing out names and Peppers must have come up so he made the deal knowing he had Peppers in his back pocket.

Nate Soldier is all on him, you can blame him for that one but everything else all has ties to Mara's meddling hands.  You can take shots with 20-20 on not trading down and still getting Saquon but taking Saquon and sticking with Eli and many contradictory moves make sense if you figure in Mara IMHO.

Edited by Bracie Smathers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since taking over Gettleman did the following:

1. Refused to take a QB in last years draft - The only QB worth taking was gone 

2. Keeps relying on washed up Eli Manning - Washed up Eli is still better than all of the Garbage that was available last draft 

3. Drafted a stud RB with NO Offensive Line ignoring all their other issues - Drafted a once in a generation RB who was clearly the best player in the draft

4. Traded Harrison, Vernon, and Beckham for practically nothing - Vernon was lazy and injury prone and they got one of the best G in the NFL ... Beckham is a cancer 

 5. Let go of Collins for nothing - Replaced him with a younger higher rated S

6. Signed a bad LT to a record contract - Who was rated better than average by PFF even after a slow start

 

Giants have draft 12 picks including 2 x 1st rounders and have cleared tons of cap space for 2020

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, monk said:

Since taking over Gettleman did the following:

1. Refused to take a QB in last years draft - The only QB worth taking was gone 

2. Keeps relying on washed up Eli Manning - Washed up Eli is still better than all of the Garbage that was available last draft 

3. Drafted a stud RB with NO Offensive Line ignoring all their other issues - Drafted a once in a generation RB who was clearly the best player in the draft

4. Traded Harrison, Vernon, and Beckham for practically nothing - Vernon was lazy and injury prone and they got one of the best G in the NFL ... Beckham is a cancer 

 5. Let go of Collins for nothing - Replaced him with a younger higher rated S

6. Signed a bad LT to a record contract - Who was rated better than average by PFF even after a slow start

 

Giants have draft 12 picks including 2 x 1st rounders and have cleared tons of cap space for 2020

How can you use PFF to praise Solder’s second half but not recognize when PFF had Vernon as the #13 edge defender?

So far I have only heard good things about Beckham from his teammates. The negative things about him all seem to come from outside the locker room.  Do you have some examples from his teammates?

Do you think that the Giants should draft a QB this year? 

If yes, who and with which pick?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Because I watched Vernon very closely this past season and he was a dog.  He made zero effort on a lot of plays ... Particularly runs to his side. He basically quit the second a runner got outside of him.

You really believe that about Beckham ... You don't trust your own eyes??

I haven't hear many teammates say anything bad about Antonio Brown ... I don't have to 

Possibly Kyler Murray if he drops to them ...Other than that ...I'll trade up next year fro at least 3 QBs who are better than Haskins, Dranold, or Rosen next year.

I'd trade a 3 for Rosen

 

 

Edited by monk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, monk said:

Because I watched Vernon very closely this past season and he was a dog.  He made zero effort on a lot of plays ... Particularly runs to his side. He basically quit the second a runner got outside of him.

You really believe that about Beckham ... You don't trust your own eyes??

I haven't hear many teammates say anything bad about Antonio Brown ... I don't have to 

Possibly Kyler Murray if he drops to them ...Other than that ...I'll trade up next year fro at least 3 QBs who are better than Haskins, Dranold, or Rosen next year.

I'd trade a 3 for Rosen

 

 

I would too. Here's the thing. If they truly believe in Rosen, get him and keep Eli and bring him along slowly. If they're on the fence about his talent and just want to take a shot, then they have to start him day one and cut ties with Eli. If he sucks, they draft a QB in 2020.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.