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2021 New York football Giants (9 Viewers)

dhockster said:
Not so odd. Kitchens was a TE coach from 2007 to 2012 before becoming a QB coach and then RB coach. 
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That's what I mean though. I'd think he could sign to be an offensive coordinator with any team if he wanted; going back to a TE coach seems like a step back to me.
 

Joe Judge has reportedly added another piece to his coaching staff, as he is expected to bring Tennessee inside linebackers coach and special teams coordinator Kevin Sherrer to the Giants, according to Patrick Brown of GoVols247.

Brown is reporting that Sherrer will become the new inside linebackers coach in New York.

Judge and Sherrer have been together on a coaching staff in the past, having spent two years together at Alabama under Nick Saban in 2010 and 2011. Judge served as a special teams assistant for Saban, while Sherrer was the director of player personnel.
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Link - https://www.sny.tv/giants/news/tennessee-linebackers-coach-special-teams-coordinator-kevin-sherrer-joining-giants-staff-report/312550804

Current Giants' Assistant Coaches:

Offensive coordinator — Jason Garrett
Defensive coordinator/assistant head coach — Patrick Graham
Special teams coordinator — Thomas McGaughey
Offensive line — Marc Colombo [reported, not official]
Running backs — Burton Burns [reported]
Tight ends — Freddie Kitchens [reported]
Wide receivers — Tyke Tolbert [reported]
Quarterbacks — Jerry Schuplinski [reported]
Defensive line —
Linebackers — Kevin Sherrer [reported, not official]
Defensive backs — Jerome Henderson [reported]
Special teams assistant — Tom Quinn
Defensive assistant [role not yet known] — Bret Bielema [reported]
Offensive assistant [role not yet known] — Jody Wright [reported]

 
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The Frankman said:
That's what I mean though. I'd think he could sign to be an offensive coordinator with any team if he wanted; going back to a TE coach seems like a step back to me.
 

Link - https://www.sny.tv/giants/news/tennessee-linebackers-coach-special-teams-coordinator-kevin-sherrer-joining-giants-staff-report/312550804

Current Giants' Assistant Coaches:

Offensive coordinator — Jason Garrett
Defensive coordinator/assistant head coach — Patrick Graham
Special teams coordinator — Thomas McGaughey
Offensive line — Marc Colombo [reported, not official]
Running backs — Burton Burns [reported]
Tight ends — Freddie Kitchens [reported]
Wide receivers — Tyke Tolbert [reported]
Quarterbacks — Jerry Schuplinski [reported]
Defensive line —
Linebackers — Kevin Sherrer [reported, not official]
Defensive backs — Jerome Henderson [reported]
Special teams assistant — Tom Quinn
Defensive assistant [role not yet known] — Bret Bielema [reported]
Offensive assistant [role not yet known] — Jody Wright [reported]
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I think he did fine as a play caller in 2018 because it was his first year with a rookie QB and opposing coaches didn't know necessarily what he was going to do. Based on some of his gaffs in 2019 and that his offense underacheived in 2019, I think most teams probably view position coach as the right level of coaching for Kitchens.

 
ESPN Giants reporter Jordan Raanan included LB Alec Ogletree in his list of "likely" offseason cuts.

Ogletree has underachieved since joining the Giants in 2018 including this past season when he garnered PFF's No. 38 grade out of 58 positional qualifiers at inside linebacker. Cutting Ogletree would leave behind $6.7 million in dead money but would also save New York $5.05 million against the cap. In addition to Ogletree, Raanan also expects the Giants to move on from LB Kareem Martin, S Antoine Bethea and TE Rhett Ellison
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I'm trying to think if any of these are controversial... and they really aren't. Maybe have a slight issue with Ellison but it looks like Giants like Kaden's Smith's blocking enough to keep him.

 
The Frankman said:
I'm trying to think if any of these are controversial... and they really aren't. Maybe have a slight issue with Ellison but it looks like Giants like Kaden's Smith's blocking enough to keep him.
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Theres' a very Good Podcast regarding this ... 5 Steps to create $24 million in Cap Space 

The majority of it by getting rid of these 4 and it would put the Giants over $80m in cap space.  None of these guys made positive contributions and at least 2 of them could be replace with younger better players with just the $24m saved leaving the Giants with over $60m in cap space 

With that cap ... I'd like them to sign

  • Conklin RT or Scherf (If he could Play either OT) 
  • Edge Rusher (Fowler or Collins or JPP)
  • MLB (Littleton or Shobert)
  • S (Simmons, Harris or McCourty) 
  • Resign ...  Leonard Williams 
Then Draft in the 1st 3 rounds 

  • Simmons MLB 
  • LT 
  • Center 
 
Yenrub said:
Free agents the Giants should pursue by Ralph Vacchianno   

https://www.sny.tv/giants/news/7-free-agents-the-giants-should-target-including-rt-jack-conklin/312673330
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I think adding Conklin, McGovern and Van Noy would be good at the right price.  Even if they do that, I wouldn't mind seeing them draft a LT to replace Solder at some point.  Trading Solder would be great, but I would be surprised if anyone wants his contract.

Gettleman backed himself into a corner with Williams.  Trading away 3rd and 5th round picks was really bad at the time.  He seems to feel obligated to resign him, but that would be throwing good money after bad.  I would like to see them trade down with a team that wants a QB and add more picks.  Also, I think they can find a similar value player at OL or defense a little later in the 1st. 

 
RC94 said:
I think adding Conklin, McGovern and Van Noy would be good at the right price.  Even if they do that, I wouldn't mind seeing them draft a LT to replace Solder at some point.  Trading Solder would be great, but I would be surprised if anyone wants his contract.

Gettleman backed himself into a corner with Williams.  Trading away 3rd and 5th round picks was really bad at the time.  He seems to feel obligated to resign him, but that would be throwing good money after bad.  I would like to see them trade down with a team that wants a QB and add more picks.  Also, I think they can find a similar value player at OL or defense a little later in the 1st. 
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I'm not sold on Van Noy ... He's going to be 29 and seems more like a system player to me ... he sucked on Detroit and he's been good not great on NE

Williams is a better player than you think ...  he's great against the run and made the Giants run d much better and he pressures the QB the problem is he did not get sacks ...that could change with a legit Edge Rusher.  He's Younger than Armstead and untill this season was a much better player than Armstead who most people feel was aided by the addition of Bosa. 

Giants should not resign Golden. He is another system player and will command more money then more talented players because of his sack totals 

 
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Peter King's Football Morning In America

8. I think this is my Football Story of the Week: Darryl Slater of NJ Advance Media wonders if Giants co-owner John Mara has lost his touch when it comes to franchise architecture. Writes Slater:

“As other front offices get younger—the Browns just hired 32-year-old Andrew Berry as general manager—the Giants are a home office for old-school football: Mara is 65. Co-owner Steve Tisch, who says he will become more involved in football decisions, is 70. General manager Dave Gettleman is 68. And Accorsi, who is one of Mara’s most trusted advisers, is 78. So while some say the NFL has passed him by, Mara insists those years have made him better. He believes he fully understands where he went wrong, and how to not repeat those mistakes. He has made changes to his strategies for the Giants’ major decisions, like assessing potential draft picks and determining how much patience to show with a head coach and general manager.”

9. I think my biggest issue with the Giants in 2020 is that if they’re anything less than a rising 7-9 or 8-8 team by season’s end, Mara is going to have to fire Gettleman. And that means hiring a new GM and forcing an arranged marriage between a neophyte head coach and whoever the GM is. If they’d made a clean sweep (as unfair as it might have been with the Giants’ usually patient front-office approach) and fired the coach and GM, then they’d have gone into 2020 with a fresh look on the coaching staff and the football ops side. Hiring a new GM in 11 months could make the franchise sputter in 2021 as well. Mara had better hope the defense shows signs of life this fall so Daniel Jones in a new offense doesn’t have to score in the thirties to win consistently
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.

 
Ogletree and Martin cut. All signs point to Ellison staying (Scott Simonson was cut) for now since he's the best blocking TE on the roster. Bethea is up in the air.

 
After watching the combine here is my draft preference ...

Simmons  - Freak ! What a great fit he would be for the Soft over the middle Giants! A LB/S who covers like a corner ... I would actually consider him over Chase Young and sign a veteran edge guy

Wills -  Good size and Great Athleticism ... unbelievable feet in the Drills ... I just wish he was a LT though - Rather see the Giants take Simmons and sign a RT  ... He will be a a stud a day 1 starter 

Wirfs - Great Build and Athleticism ... lit it up at the combine ... Doesn't look as natural  as Wills in the drills ... He will also be a a stud a day 1 starter 

I want one of these 3 or Chase Young if they don't trade back ... if they trade back with the Phins (for example)  it's conceivable that they end up with Simmons and a Top 4 OT  (Thomas and Becton being the other 2 )

 
That is a good move... moving fast before Jones blew up the market was big.
 

Giants agreed to terms with CB James Bradberry, formerly of the Panthers, on a three-year, $45 million contract.

Bradberry, 27 in August, was regarded as the top free-agent corner along with Byron Jones. In New York, he links back up with GM Dave Gettleman, who drafted him in Carolina, and gives the Giants a new No. 1 corner after Janoris Jenkins was traded to the Saint last season. Bradberry is long and lanky at 6'1/212 with loads of experience covering No. 1 wideouts in the NFC South. He and 2019 first-rounder DeAndre Baker will be the Giants' starting corners.
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Best thing is he essentially replaces Beal as the tall CB and slots Baker as the #2 CB. Beal and Ballentine can battle it out for the 3rd CB/slot guy. I like the Mayo move also, if the Giants were to get Clowney ... man I think I'd start to get excited.

 
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The Frankman said:
That is a good move... moving fast before Jones blew up the market was big.
 

Best thing is he essentially replaces Beal as the tall CB and slots Baker as the #2 CB. Beal and Ballentine can battle it out for the 3rd CB/slot guy. I like the Mayo move also, if the Giants were to get Clowney ... man I think I'd start to get excited.
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I dont like this at all ... It's another overpaid Gettleman former draft pick  ... This is complete crap

According to PFF 

Bradberry is one of the biggest “buyer beware” free agents this year. Bradberry has failed to eclipse a 65.0 coverage grade in each of the last three seasons, and he was 62nd at his position in terms of PFF WAR last year. 

 
Giants signed LB Blake Martinez, formerly of the Packers, to a three-year, $30 million contract.

Martinez was reportedly seeking $10 million annually and Giants GM Dave Gettleman was more than happy to oblige. The 26-year-old has started 61-of-64 games since joining the Packers as a fourth-round selection in 2016, garnering Pro Football Focus' No. 36 coverage grade among 99 qualified linebackers just last year. He's the second big free agent splash for the Giants since the legal tampering window opened Monday afternoon, joining ex-Panthers CB James Bradberry on that side of the ball.
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Better than Ogletree.

 
The Frankman said:
Better than Ogletree.
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Hate to say it but this is another crap move ... Giants are cloning below avg talent LBs !!!!!!! Martinez, Mayo and Connelly ... all 6' 2" 240 white 4-5th round talent, nonathletic LBs ??? WTF 

Giants have now invested $25m per year and I'm not sure they have even improved ... they could have had Conklin plus Martinez for the price.  Byron Jones went for 16.5 vs Bradberry 15.0 ... Are you kidding me ?????????

 
Giants sign TE Levine Toilolo ... he caught 100% of his targets last season !!  Yep he caught both of them ! 

Pro Football Focus ranked the 6'8" 268lb Toilolo as the 26th-best run blocking TE in the league in 2019 ... Now I'm really confused

2nd Stanford signing as Giants continue to target Smart - Non athletic players

 
A lot of the Martinez stuff that he sucks in coverage was from last year though. In past years he's been fine, could be injuries or scheme-related downturn. Giants betting it's an outlier.

 
This is ####### horrible ... keeping Gettleman on just one more year looks like it is going to end up being a disaster! This moron saved himself $3.5 million by signing 2 avg to below avg players ... when he could have had the 2 highest rated free agents at their respective positions. Now I know PFF isn't everything but this seems to be the shared opinion throughout sports media channels  and I certainly value PFF's opinion over Gettleman 

  • Blake Martinez PFF rating 58.7 - $10m 
  • Cory Littleton PFF rating 78.9 -  $11.75m 
  • Kyle Van Noy - PFF raing 83.5 - $12.75m


  • James Bradberry PFF rating 61.0 - $15m 
  • Byron Jones PFF rating 76.1 - $16.5m
Conklin PFF raing - 78.0 Could have been had for $14m  ... I would take that over either of our Below Average Joe signings 

 
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The Frankman said:
A lot of the Martinez stuff that he sucks in coverage was from last year though. In past years he's been fine, could be injuries or scheme-related downturn. Giants betting it's an outlier.
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His pass coverage went up to OK  this season and his run defense down to pathetic 

  • OVERALL 58.7
  • RUN DEFENSE 47.0
  • COVERAGE 64.1
 
Leonard Floyd and Devon Kennard are both available and both better than anything that the Giants have signed at LBer ... go get em 

Nice cheap options

 
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
48s
No surprise here, but the Giants won't exercise the option on safety Antoine Bethea's contract for 2020, per source. This will free up $3M in cap space and leave no dead money.

 
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I'm I the only one disgusted with this?  All we've been reading about is how much cap space the Giants have to spend and this is what we get ???

Are they even better right now then they were last year? Not according to PFF

They Lost Jenkins (68.8) Ogletree (54.2), and Ellison (65.6) = 188.6

Replaced them with Bradberry (61.0) Martinez (58.7) and Toilolo (58.3) = 178

Golden for Fackrell? 

This is grotesque ... makes me want to vomit - Jones and Conklin would cost $6m less!!!!!! 

Martinez and Fackrell = $18.6 this year <---Byron Jones  $16.5  ($2M)

Bradberry and Toilolo = $18.1 this year <---> Conklin $14M   ($4M)

 
Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet)

The #Giants are bringing in a familiar face for coach Joe Judge, as former #Patriots special teams ace Nate Ebner is set to join NYG, source said. The ex-rugby star had been with New England since 2012.

Cam Fleming's deal maxes out at $4 million -- the same number he was due from the rival #Cowboys on his option, which they declined.

At least we haven't made anyone the highest paid player at their position this off-season.     Looking more like an OT in the first round, hopefully they can trade down a bit and pick up another 2nd.

I like the Fackrell and Bradberry signings.   

 
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Here we go again ... Giants continue to squander their cap and get worse in the process 

Flemming $4m - 59.4 pff vs Remmers $2.5m 64.3

What in the world is going on here? ... Gettleman seems to be going out of his way to get fired 

3rd Stanford guy signed 

 
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A couple of trades that happened during free agency COULD benefit the Giants come draft day.

Foles to Chicago and Slay to Philly.

Right now, Detroit has a need for a CB. Jeffery Okudah seems to the be logical choice at #3

Right now, Jacksonville sitting at #9 looks like they need a QB.

The Giants pick at #4 might be the target spot for teams (Chargers and Jaguars) wanting to trade up to get in front of Miami.

 
Yenrub said:
A couple of trades that happened during free agency COULD benefit the Giants come draft day.

Foles to Chicago and Slay to Philly.

Right now, Detroit has a need for a CB. Jeffery Okudah seems to the be logical choice at #3

Right now, Jacksonville sitting at #9 looks like they need a QB.

The Giants pick at #4 might be the target spot for teams (Chargers and Jaguars) wanting to trade up to get in front of Miami.
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Gotta see how it turns out ... the Ideal scenario is WAS - Chase Young , DET Okudah, that leaves Giants in the best position 

Dream Scenario (and I know its a dream) ... MIA trades the 5th and 18th to the Giants  to fend off the Chargers

 
SNY.com - Giants Free Agency Report Card

A few are half a grade higher than I would've liked, but no real complaints. Now it's draft time.

kodycutter said:
Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet)

The #Giants are bringing in a familiar face for coach Joe Judge, as former #Patriots special teams ace Nate Ebner is set to join NYG, source said. The ex-rugby star had been with New England since 2012.

Cam Fleming's deal maxes out at $4 million -- the same number he was due from the rival #Cowboys on his option, which they declined.

At least we haven't made anyone the highest paid player at their position this off-season.     Looking more like an OT in the first round, hopefully they can trade down a bit and pick up another 2nd.

I like the Fackrell and Bradberry signings.  
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Yep, looking like Bechton in the 1st. Fleming plays multiple spots on the line and I think probably will be a swing reserve. I think people are missing the reason Fackrell didn't even have a chance to build on his 2018 campaign; Green Bay signed a couple of excellent LBs and pass rushers (Za’Darius and Preston Smith) and drafted Rashan Gary in the 1st round.

 
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Let's use our heads here ... I don't need some biased sports writer to sugar coat things and blow smoke my ###. The Giants primary needs going into free Agency were Oline and Edge Rusher. That fact that they failed to fill either starts them at a Grade C ... No Giant fan could be happy with the outcome of this free agency after the expectations that were set.

CB James Bradberry A-  Would indicate that the Giants clearly got the 2nd best CB i n free agency and that is not necessarily the case. This one is probably the hardest to grade as a player. But the Giants failed to hit their target Byron Jones who considered by all to be the much better and more athletic player. Jones signed for just $1.5m per year more than Bradberry - this is a Grade C+ for now 

LB Blake Martinez - B+ ... nonsense  ... The Giants needed an athletic cover LB and everyone expected them to target Littleton. Martinez is not that at all... He is not athletic, He is a run stopping LB who is known to be poor in coverage a Mayo/Connolly clone Grade  C

LB Kyler Fackrell B+ ... this is one of the bigger jokes of a grade I've seen. The guy has an injury history, he has had 1 good season in the NFL and lost his job the following season. If this is the answer to the Edge rusher that they they desperately need ...Grade F if it's take a shot on a player with potential Leonard Floyd was the answer Grade C-

TE Levine Toilolo B+ ....LOL!!! I'm Sorry ... this is a B+ signing ???? Are they grading his size only? I'll be surprised if this goon makes the team out of training camp.  Let's be real ... this could easily be an F but I will it a Grade D- since he has NFL experience.  I don't get the point of  a big blocking TE that is close to a zero threat as a pass catcher. Isn't that called an Olineman ?

Cam Fleming B - If Flemming is a B than wouldn't that have made resigning Remmers an A ????? Giants desperately need an Olineman so I will give them a Grade C-

Ebner A- , Rosas B , Core B+ - Spending  around $10m on special team only players is not a wise move ... Grade C

Overall I would say that the players that the Giants added are not much if at all better than the players that they are replacing. It's very odd to me that Gettleman would front load the contracts of a bunch of average players and free up Cap space for the future that he may not be around to see.

Signing a couple or few very good young players that could have been here for the next 4 or 5 seasons would have made a lot more sense.  Not including Williams the Giants spent about $40m  per year ... with some creativity that could have been used to Sign Conklin, Jones and Clowney filling there Oline, Edge Rusher and CB holes for years to come 

Overall Grade C- 

 
@monk 

I certainly understand your frustration and I agree that the free agent grade is in the C to C+ range , but I will address the Floyd vs. Fackrell signing.

Let me say that I haven’t heard of Fackrell before the signing but if you are looking for pass rush out of Floyd you are looking for the wrong thing. He has never had double digit sacks in his career and only has 2 career sacks more than Fackrell. Both signed one-year deals, Fackrell’s was 5.5m less.

Floyd has 18.5 sacks in 4 seasons - Fackrell has 16.5 in 4 seasons

 
Yenrub said:
@monk 

I certainly understand your frustration and I agree that the free agent grade is in the C to C+ range , but I will address the Floyd vs. Fackrell signing.

Let me say that I haven’t heard of Fackrell before the signing but if you are looking for pass rush out of Floyd you are looking for the wrong thing. He has never had double digit sacks in his career and only has 2 career sacks more than Fackrell. Both signed one-year deals, Fackrell’s was 5.5m less.

Floyd has 18.5 sacks in 4 seasons - Fackrell has 16.5 in 4 seasons
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Like Clowney and Williams ...it's not always about the sack #'s ...it's being able to pressure the QB and defend the run. PFF is not the end all but they do a pretty good job of evaluating players ... better than Gettleman for sure. Here is Floyd vs Fackrell ratings by pff 

  • OVERALL 69.8 RUN DEFENSE 73.3 PASS RUSH 61.4 - Floyd 
  • OVERALL 62.4 RUN DEFENSE 53.5 PASS RUSH 59.8 - Fackrell
Also when you consider the rest of the stats ... tackles  TFL , QBHits etc ... It's not even remotely close.  Fackrell's been a backup his whole career and Floyd is a solid starter with freakish potential 

 
Except Fackrell hasn't been a backup his whole career. The one year he was given a shot he definitely flashed, Floyd has busted hard. And at the end of the day, the Fackrell contract is a much cheaper one year offer. Floyd has arguably been a bust after being selected the #9th pick.

 
The Frankman said:
Except Fackrell hasn't been a backup his whole career. The one year he was given a shot he definitely flashed, Floyd has busted hard. And at the end of the day, the Fackrell contract is a much cheaper one year offer. Floyd has arguably been a bust after being selected the #9th pick.
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Fackrell has started 9 games in his career and aside from the flukey 10.5 sack season has done very little ... in fact he did not start a single game the following seasons which should tell you what GB thought of him.

"After registering 10.5 sacks in the 2018 season, Fackrell played fewer than 40 percent of Green Bay’s defensive snaps this past season and the 2016 third-round pick made little impact when on the field."

Floyd arguably a bust because he was a top Draft 10 pick ... If he was a 3rd round pick he would have been considered a steal  

 
monk said:
Fackrell has started 9 games in his career and aside from the flukey 10.5 sack season has done very little ... in fact he did not start a single game the following seasons which should tell you what GB thought of him.

"After registering 10.5 sacks in the 2018 season, Fackrell played fewer than 40 percent of Green Bay’s defensive snaps this past season and the 2016 third-round pick made little impact when on the field."
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... I just posted this above... Packers signed ZaDarius and Preston Smith and drafted Rashan Gary with a Top ten pick! Of course Fackrell could do anything, he had no opportunity!  It's understandable Packers didn't want to take a chance on a unproven talent.

monk said:
Floyd arguably a bust because he was a top Draft 10 pick ... If he was a 3rd round pick he would have been considered a steal 
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... what the deuce? C'mon man, at least I'm reading your posts and responding to them in an somewhat informed manner. Let's not use fuzzy logic on this; I know Gettleman is a big dumdum but most of these moves have been average to ok/prove it, nothing to get heated about.

 
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The Frankman said:
... I just posted this above...1)  Packers signed ZaDarius and Preston Smith and drafted Rashan Gary with a Top ten pick! Of course Fackrell could do anything, he had no opportunity!  It's understandable Packers didn't want to take a chance on a unproven talent.

... what the deuce? C'mon man, at least I'm reading your posts and responding to them in an somewhat informed manner. Let's not use fuzzy logic on this; I know Gettleman is a big dumdum but 2) most of these moves have been average to ok/prove it,3) nothing to get heated about.
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1) Unless you were Gettleman ... Why would you sign 2 high priced free Agents and use a top 10 draft pick if you had a young stud coming off a 10.5 sack season at the same or similar  position?  Also GB just signed another LB  Christian Kirksey for 2 years $16m rather than pay Fackrell $4m that the Giants paid ... GB had 0 interest in keeping Fackrell 

2) Which is great ... If you are looking to be average or OK ... C is average C- is ok 

3) Who is getting heated?

 
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