The Frankman
Footballguy
I don't think anyone is arguing his signings. His drafts as a whole, suck. This is indisputable.
*Not Giving any credit to Reese since Accorsi was there and these moves uncharacteristic of ReeseJust plain dumb!
I get that Reese hasn’t a good job the last 5 years but this narrative that the Supebowls are all Ernie is just plan dumb!
You claim to be a fan of the team but don’t know #### about the history.
Here is starting lineup for the 2011 Superbowl (per profootball reference)
Eli - 2004
Bradshaw – drafted by Reese in 2007
Hynoski – drafted by Reese in 2011
Nicks – drafted by Reese in 2009
Cruz – Signed by Reese in 2010
Ballard – Drafted by Reese in 2010
Deihl - 2003
Boothe – Free agent signing by Reese in 2007
Baas - Free agent signing by Reese in 2011
Snee - 2004
McKenzie – free agent in 2005
7 of the 11 offensive starters were either drafted by Reese or signed as a free agent under him
Tuck - 2005
Linval – drafted by Reese in 2010
Canty - Free agent signing by Reese in 2009
JPP - Drafted by Reese in 2010
Blackburn - 2005
Boley - Free agent signing by Reese in 2009
Webster - 2005
A Ross - drafted by Reese in 2007
Kenny Phillips - Drafted by Reese in 2008
Rolle - Free agent signing by Reese in 2010
D Grant - Free agent signing by Reese in 2010
8 of the 11 defensive starters were either drafted by Reese or signed as a free agent under him
That’s 15 of 22 starters acquired under Reese
Webb isn't ready. Remember, he needed a week or two of increased reps in practice (which they just started last week). So at least Eli starts for now and at some point they put in Webb down the line. Personally, I think they'll draft a QB.I don't understand the point to going back to Eli as the starter. They already ended his games started streak, they are out of the playoff hunt, and they haven't evaluated the young QBs. Yet another move that makes no sense.
One of the most damning things I read was that Webb saw zero time in the pre-season games and hasn't taken a first team snap in practice all season long. And didn't take any last week either. I don't care where you think your situation is with QB, you have to be getting all your QBs on the roster first team snaps. I am not saying they take the majority, but not a single one? And then you need to "evaluate your roster"? What the heck were you doing up to this point? Just from the fact he didn't take any first team snaps I am not sure Webb is ready at all. I wonder if we'll see him at all.Webb isn't ready. Remember, he needed a week or two of increased reps in practice (which they just started last week). So at least Eli starts for now and at some point they put in Webb down the line. Personally, I think they'll draft a QB.
Bet the Ranch on the Giants to win this week ... it sux because they are going to screw up their draft position but it's inevitable!!GoBirds said:So does the team come out fired up for Eli and a new coach or more of the same? Think I’m plugging Shepard in not sure how to feel about it.
I don't ever recall hearing teammates call each other out like thatLAUNCH said:https://twitter.com/Ian_OConnor/status/945773255612358657
You don't often hear an NFL player call a teammate a cancer on the radio, but Landon Collins just said that about Eli Apple to @espnbob
He must be a real bad Apple for Collins to say something like that.I don't ever recall hearing teammates call each other out like that
Collins should have kept that to himself.
I knew the Giants were in trouble when I saw this video....He must be a real bad Apple for Collins to say something like that.
I think they are going to go QB at #2 (assuming Sam Darnold & Josh Rosen both come out)I give Reeses Pieces a break on drafting o-line as its hard to do. Dallas got very lucky with theirs. I do not give him a pass in not addressing it at all in FA. Too many teams have and we have seen results in Minn, LAR, etc.
I think its a mistake not seeing Webb more, with the 2nd pick what do they do? Draft a QB, Draft other position, trade the pick?
The Giants are currently in disarray then I can remember, there is no clear voice/direction. They can win now and be set up for the future, They can do either or both. Right now they are listless and lets hope they get some direction.
One thing is for certain- Dallas and Philadelphia both have good o-lines and the QB situation addressed.
What? Giants passed up the Following Olineman in recent drafts and made no effort to move up to grab all-pro lineman who went just a couple of picks before them.bigupsetter said:I give Reeses Pieces a break on drafting o-line as its hard to do. Dallas got very lucky with theirs. I do not give him a pass in not addressing it at all in FA. Too many teams have and we have seen results in Minn, LAR, etc.
I think its a mistake not seeing Webb more, with the 2nd pick what do they do? Draft a QB, Draft other position, trade the pick?
The Giants are currently in disarray then I can remember, there is no clear voice/direction. They can win now and be set up for the future, They can do either or both. Right now they are listless and lets hope they get some direction.
One thing is for certain- Dallas and Philadelphia both have good o-lines and the QB situation addressed.
That line wouldn’t be as good as you think it would beWhat? Giants passed up the Following Olineman in recent drafts and made no effort to move up to grab all-pro lineman who went just a couple of picks before them.
So theoretically the Giants could have had Gurley running behind possibly the best Oline in the NFL
- 2017 - Ryan Ramczyk, Cam Robinson (Garett Bolles went 3 picks before)
- 2016 - Larry Tunsil, Taylor Decker (Took Eli Apple @ 10 instead) (Jack Conklin went 2 pick before)
- 2015 - Drafted Flowers 9th (Gurley went 10th) (Sherff went 5th) La'el Collins was available every round and as an undrafted Free Agent
- 2014 - Drafted Odell 12th passed on Zack Martin (all-Pro rookie) (Jake Matthews went 6th , Taylor Lewan went 1 pick before and Aaron Donald 1 pick after)
- 2013 - Drafted Pugh - Kyle Long went next pick
I agree with could've, should've. They did not though, and I can name more busts at the positions than you can name hits. The real sin, is doling nothing when your job is only to make the team better. For some reason, some wrong reason, he thought this line was good as is- huge mistake. As one example, he could have gotten Whitworth, din't thought he was too old. Whats worse, they focus on the defense and grab some FA help a year ago which shows some willingness. That willingness did not carry over to the o-line a year later. Contradictory to what they said, win one more they said. oh, they got Fluker. Would Coughlin have been accepting of this o-line, probably not. Personally, I would have been screaming from rooftops that we have old immobile QB and running game is o-line dependent. Reese probably wouldn't have listened, lol. Accorsi should feel disgraced he picked ReeseWhat? Giants passed up the Following Olineman in recent drafts and made no effort to move up to grab all-pro lineman who went just a couple of picks before them.
So theoretically the Giants could have had Gurley running behind possibly the best Oline in the NFL
- 2017 - Ryan Ramczyk, Cam Robinson (Garett Bolles went 3 picks before)
- 2016 - Larry Tunsil, Taylor Decker (Took Eli Apple @ 10 instead) (Jack Conklin went 2 pick before)
- 2015 - Drafted Flowers 9th (Gurley went 10th) (Sherff went 5th) La'el Collins was available every round and as an undrafted Free Agent
- 2014 - Drafted Odell 12th passed on Zack Martin (all-Pro rookie) (Jake Matthews went 6th , Taylor Lewan went 1 pick before and Aaron Donald 1 pick after)
- 2013 - Drafted Pugh - Kyle Long went next pick
Well Yeah if you replace Martin with Cam Robinson who is a rookie LT ... otherwise every single one of them is better than FlowersThat line wouldn’t be as good as you think it would be
Here are the current PFF grades for some of the guys you listed
Tunsil – 59.5
Collins – 51.9
Ryan Ramczyk 82.7
Cam Robinson – 38.9
Long – 73.0
Flowers – 51.0
Yeah I’m guessing every team in the league would be good if they knew who would pan out.Well Yeah if you replace Martin with Cam Robinson who is a rookie LT ... otherwise every single one of them is better than Flowers
Ramczyk, Martin, and Long are 3 pro bowlers Tunsil is only in his 2nd season, has moved around a lot and is still significantly better than Flowers
- LT Ramczyk 82.7 vs. Flowers 51.0
- LG Long 73.0 vs Pugh 52.4
- RG Martin 90.5 vs John Jerry 72.6
- RT Tunsil 59.5 or Collins – 51.9 or Cam Robinson – 38.9 vs Bobby Hart 37.7
Pure business mentality. He doesn't let emotions play into anything. Believes in the team starts and ends with oline and dlineWhat do you think of him?
Couldn't be worse, but they should have made this move a year ago...the cupboard is bare nowSlam dunk
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.I agree with could've, should've. They did not though, and I can name more busts at the positions than you can name hits. The real sin, is doling nothing when your job is only to make the team better. For some reason, some wrong reason, he thought this line was good as is- huge mistake. As one example, he could have gotten Whitworth, din't thought he was too old. Whats worse, they focus on the defense and grab some FA help a year ago which shows some willingness. That willingness did not carry over to the o-line a year later. Contradictory to what they said, win one more they said. oh, they got Fluker. Would Coughlin have been accepting of this o-line, probably not. Personally, I would have been screaming from rooftops that we have old immobile QB and running game is o-line dependent. Reese probably wouldn't have listened, lol. Accorsi should feel disgraced he picked Reese
Why? You realize that they managed to win 2 Super Bowls while Reese was the GM right?I agree with could've, should've. They did not though, and I can name more busts at the positions than you can name hits. The real sin, is doling nothing when your job is only to make the team better. For some reason, some wrong reason, he thought this line was good as is- huge mistake. As one example, he could have gotten Whitworth, din't thought he was too old. Whats worse, they focus on the defense and grab some FA help a year ago which shows some willingness. That willingness did not carry over to the o-line a year later. Contradictory to what they said, win one more they said. oh, they got Fluker. Would Coughlin have been accepting of this o-line, probably not. Personally, I would have been screaming from rooftops that we have old immobile QB and running game is o-line dependent. Reese probably wouldn't have listened, lol. Accorsi should feel disgraced he picked Reese
First SB, he didn't draft the players. So I'll give him 2nd. He saw the D wasn't performing, went out and got a D in FA market. He didn't do a thing to improve o-line. Detroit, Minnesota, LAR address it, he does nothing. Point is, he could have. HE could have went and taken care of it, he chose not to- to me speaks volumes. It's not what you do in the course of doing what you are supposed to, it whats you dont do. Eagles went out got a RB to make a push this year. When panthers went to SB they got other players.Why? You realize that they managed to win 2 Super Bowls while Reese was the GM right?
Agree to disagree on the legacy thingFirst SB, he didn't draft the players. So I'll give him 2nd. He saw the D wasn't performing, went out and got a D in FA market. He didn't do a thing to improve o-line. Detroit, Minnesota, LAR address it, he does nothing. Point is, he could have. HE could have went and taken care of it, he chose not to- to me speaks volumes. It's not what you do in the course of doing what you are supposed to, it whats you dont do. Eagles went out got a RB to make a push this year. When panthers went to SB they got other players.
This line has gotten worse, and is not a new problem. If your plan is to build around Eli and make another push- then why doesnt he fix the o-line. Eli isnt Wilson or Rodgers that can make things happen on the run. I'm sorry, but his legacy won't be the SB victories, it'll be broken o-line that he didnt fix by choice and how bad this possible good team is. I bet new GM fixes line and we r not talking about it next year.
Ereck Flowers - T - Giants
NJ Advance Media's Dan Duggan reports Ereck Flowers (groin, questionable) will not play Week 17.
Rookie Chad Wheeler will get the start at left tackle. Flowers is listed as questionable with a groin injury, but this seems to be a benching for a player ESPN's Jordan Raanan described as "totally checked out." In fact, both Flowers and since-waived Bobby Hart reportedly refused to play in the season finale. Not nearly talented enough to be a locker room headache, new GM Dave Gettleman will almost certainly replace Flowers this offseason.
Here's a thought, what if Gettleman waits to see what opportunities arise and THEN decides whether to draft a QB or trade down? The MO for this team has been decide way in advance for every single move, telegraph it to every other team so they can pick you off/trade up ahead of you. It's time for a little bit of deception and keeping cards close to the vest for a change. The same mentality has often infected play calling over the years. Why is it so hard for the Giants to surprise their opponents? Is it the way ownership sees the world that influences the decision-making up and down the organization?I think they are going to go QB at #2 (assuming Sam Darnold & Josh Rosen both come out)
I think I prefer Darnold over Rosen due to mobility but if they both come out I don’t see the Browns taken Rosen at #1 since he has come out and said he doesn’t want to play there.
You are prob right as far as legacy, my thoughts on legacy are probably peppered with dumpster fire of a season. Was Accorsi who picked Reese over Gettleman as his replacement, got Gettleman Carolina gig and probably new Giants gig too. Gettleman wasted no words on day 1, he obviously has to address o-line. Day 3 he cuts Hart. Probably won't cut Flowers, Giants seem to like him, his size, his age, so he will move him to right side. I think he's done more in less than a week on this line than Reese did in yearAgree to disagree on the legacy thing
Sure today all people think about are the OL issues but 10 years from now it will the 2 Super Bowls
Look at Accorsi as an example. He is practically revered now as a Giants legend
He was the GM from 1998 to 2007 not exactly glory years for the Giants. Not terrible but not great either
Would you please stop with that ... Everyone in the world knows that Accorsi was kept on as a consultant in Reese's first season.Why? You realize that they managed to win 2 Super Bowls while Reese was the GM right?
What's with the trade Odell thing?The fact that Webb could not even suit up until the last game of the season and did not get on the field for 1 play is very concerning to me. Passing on a Franchise QB for Webb could have catastrophic results.
Giants need picks ... they need to address O'line and Future QB equally bad.
With their 4 picks in the 1st round Go after a QB, RB, 2 O'Linemen
- Trade the 2nd pick of the draft to the Bills for there 2 x 1st rd picks this season (likely mid 20s) and the and their 1st next season
- Hope that Bortles cost the Jags an early playoff exit ... so that we we can trade Eli to the Jags for their 1st (mid to late 20's) worst case 2nd rd pick
- Trade Odell to the Browns for their #4 pick in the draft
I know, I know !!! Pipe Dream never gonna happen
- Oline - McGlinchey or Quenton Nelson and Orlando Brown
- QB - Mayfield or Mason Rudolph,
- RB - Guice or Chubb
I don't think they cut Flowers either. I think they make him compete for the RT spot. He would have been the RT his 1st couple years if Beatty doesn't get hurtYou are prob right as far as legacy, my thoughts on legacy are probably peppered with dumpster fire of a season. Was Accorsi who picked Reese over Gettleman as his replacement, got Gettleman Carolina gig and probably new Giants gig too. Gettleman wasted no words on day 1, he obviously has to address o-line. Day 3 he cuts Hart. Probably won't cut Flowers, Giants seem to like him, his size, his age, so he will move him to right side. I think he's done more in less than a week on this line than Reese did in year
Gettelman's cleaning house and Odell is a head case that doesn't fit the Giant mold. Odell is looking to be the highest paid player in the league. Until the Giant have a line and a QB it doesn't matter what Odell does ... you don't build a team around a WR.What's with the trade Odell thing?
Lol. What?Giants need picks ... they need to address O'line and Future QB equally bad.
- Hope that Bortles cost the Jags an early playoff exit ... so that we we can trade Eli to the Jags for their 1st (mid to late 20's) worst case 2nd rd pick
Agree you don’t build around a WR but you also don’t let exceptionally talented guys who practice hard and play hard leave eitherGettelman's cleaning house and Odell is a head case that doesn't fit the Giant mold. Odell is looking to be the highest paid player in the league. Until the Giant have a line and a QB it doesn't matter what Odell does ... you don't build a team around a WR.
There's no way in the world the Giants are drafting Barkley with the Oline and QB situation that they have. I would luv to have him but it happening unless they get more picksKeep Odell,he's a game changer when healthy.
Do whatever it takes to draft Barkley,he's by far the best player in this draft.
Draft smart after round 1 and there are quality offensive linemen to be had. Hopefully the new regime sees the mid round gems.
The "great" QB's in this draft may be a lot of hype,I'm not buying the top 3 as players to build around,hopefully Cleveland stays
true to form and takes a QB that won't pan out leaving Barkley there for The Giants.
Brandon Marshall comes to mindAgree you don’t build around a WR but you also don’t let exceptionally talented guys who practice hard and play hard leave either
I don’t put too much stock in the highest paid player statement. They all want to be the highest paid player.
If the Giants can address much of their QB and OL situation in free agency, they may be in a better position to get Barkley. Otherwise, I agree,There's no way in the world the Giants are drafting Barkley with the Oline and QB situation that they have. I would luv to have him but it happening unless they get more picks