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Yenrub

Infinite New York football Giants thread

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Really surprised Gettleman didn't step in this week & force Spags to play Webb. Maybe he didn't want to step on toes so quickly, but the owner wanted to see Webb. It absolutely was the right thing to do. As much as Eli has done for that organization, nobody deserves the right to start. Countless better players have been benched for poor play, to make way for a prospect, etc., as they get old & deteriorate.

Their best move would be to go OL or D at 2, IMO. I like Webb & I'm afraid of Darnold. No to Barkley, as well. Drafting a RB that high is plain stupid. I don't care who it is. If the landscape changes & there comes a day you can't get a Pro Bowl-type RB on day-2, then maybe you do it. Until then, trust your scouting department to find the numerous hidden gems at that position. It's been proven over & over & over again you can get an outstanding RB later in the draft.

 

Edited by Football Jones

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The fact that Webb could not even suit up until the last game of the season and did not get on the field for 1 play is very concerning to me. Passing on a Franchise QB for Webb could have catastrophic results.

Giants need picks ... they need to address O'line and Future QB equally bad.

  • Trade the 2nd pick of the draft to the Bills for there 2 x 1st rd picks this season (likely mid 20s) and the and their 1st next season
  • Hope that Bortles cost the Jags an early playoff exit ... so that we we can trade Eli to the Jags for their 1st (mid to late 20's) worst case 2nd rd pick
  • Trade Odell to the Browns for their #4 pick in the draft

With their 4 picks in the 1st round Go after a QB, RB, 2 O'Linemen

  • Oline - McGlinchey or Quenton Nelson and Orlando Brown
  • QB - Mayfield or Mason Rudolph,
  • RB - Guice or Chubb 

I know, I know !!! Pipe Dream never gonna happen 

Edited by monk

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4 hours ago, monk said:

The fact that Webb could not even suit up until the last game of the season and did not get on the field for 1 play is very concerning to me. Passing on a Franchise QB for Webb could have catastrophic results.

Giants need picks ... they need to address O'line and Future QB equally bad.

  • Trade the 2nd pick of the draft to the Bills for there 2 x 1st rd picks this season (likely mid 20s) and the and their 1st next season
  • Hope that Bortles cost the Jags an early playoff exit ... so that we we can trade Eli to the Jags for their 1st (mid to late 20's) worst case 2nd rd pick
  • Trade Odell to the Browns for their #4 pick in the draft

With their 4 picks in the 1st round Go after a QB, RB, 2 O'Linemen

  • Oline - McGlinchey or Quenton Nelson and Orlando Brown
  • QB - Mayfield or Mason Rudolph,
  • RB - Guice or Chubb 

I know, I know !!! Pipe Dream never gonna happen 

What's with the trade Odell thing? 

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On 12/30/2017 at 2:41 PM, bigupsetter said:

You are prob right as far as legacy, my thoughts on legacy are probably peppered with dumpster fire of a season. Was Accorsi who picked Reese over Gettleman as his replacement, got Gettleman Carolina gig and probably new Giants gig too. Gettleman wasted no words on day 1, he obviously has to address o-line. Day 3 he cuts Hart. Probably won't cut Flowers, Giants seem to like him, his size, his age, so he will move him to right side. I think he's done more in less than a week on this line than Reese did in year

I don't think they cut Flowers either. I think they make him compete for the RT spot. He would have been the RT his 1st couple years if Beatty doesn't get hurt

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14 hours ago, Yenrub said:

What's with the trade Odell thing? 

Gettelman's cleaning house and Odell is a head case that doesn't fit the Giant mold. Odell is looking to be the highest paid player in the league. Until the Giant have a line and a QB it doesn't matter what Odell does ... you don't build a team around a WR.

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18 hours ago, monk said:

 

Giants need picks ... they need to address O'line and Future QB equally bad.

  • Hope that Bortles cost the Jags an early playoff exit ... so that we we can trade Eli to the Jags for their 1st (mid to late 20's) worst case 2nd rd pick

Lol. What?

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48 minutes ago, monk said:

Gettelman's cleaning house and Odell is a head case that doesn't fit the Giant mold. Odell is looking to be the highest paid player in the league. Until the Giant have a line and a QB it doesn't matter what Odell does ... you don't build a team around a WR.

Agree you don’t build around a WR but you also don’t let exceptionally talented guys who practice hard and play hard leave either

I don’t put too much stock in the highest paid player statement. They all want to be the highest paid player.

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Keep Odell,he's a game changer when healthy.

Do whatever it takes to draft Barkley,he's by far the best player in this draft.

Draft smart after round 1 and there are quality offensive linemen to be had. Hopefully the new regime sees the mid round gems.

The "great" QB's in this draft may be a lot of hype,I'm not buying the top  3 as players to build around,hopefully Cleveland stays

true to form and takes a QB that won't pan out leaving Barkley there for The Giants.

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2 hours ago, Rubi said:

Keep Odell,he's a game changer when healthy.

Do whatever it takes to draft Barkley,he's by far the best player in this draft.

Draft smart after round 1 and there are quality offensive linemen to be had. Hopefully the new regime sees the mid round gems.

The "great" QB's in this draft may be a lot of hype,I'm not buying the top  3 as players to build around,hopefully Cleveland stays

true to form and takes a QB that won't pan out leaving Barkley there for The Giants.

There's no way in the world the Giants are drafting Barkley with the Oline and QB situation that they have. I would luv to have him but it happening unless they get more picks 

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3 hours ago, Yenrub said:

Agree you don’t build around a WR but you also don’t let exceptionally talented guys who practice hard and play hard leave either

I don’t put too much stock in the highest paid player statement. They all want to be the highest paid player.

Brandon Marshall comes to mind 

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36 minutes ago, monk said:

There's no way in the world the Giants are drafting Barkley with the Oline and QB situation that they have. I would luv to have him but it happening unless they get more picks 

If the Giants can address much of their QB and OL situation in free agency, they may be in a better position to get Barkley. Otherwise, I agree,

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56 minutes ago, monk said:

Brandon Marshall comes to mind 

Really?

Odell reminds you of Marshall?

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48 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

Really?

Odell reminds you of Marshall?

Very Talented, Hard Working, Wide Receiver, Personality Issues ... yes he does

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1 hour ago, zamboni said:

If the Giants can address much of their QB and OL situation in free agency, they may be in a better position to get Barkley. Otherwise, I agree,

The problem is their 2 best Olinemen (Pugh and Richburg) are UFAs. If they lose either one of them they are screwed and if they keep them how much more money is left for O'line FAs. Fluker is also a FA and they waived Bobby Hart ... The line is in a much worse state then it was a year ago. I think they have to move Flowers to Guard and they have to sign Richburg. 

Edited by monk

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2 hours ago, monk said:

There's no way in the world the Giants are drafting Barkley with the Oline and QB situation that they have. I would luv to have him but it happening unless they get more picks 

With the disaster that has been the OL, it seems that would be a GREAT place to start.  For one, while a quality and especially stud QB may be the hardest need to fill in the NFL, it's ONE player.  A team with great management can find its way to getting at worst a winning QB, and perhaps groom a great one - without having to risk a top 2 pick on a position that has had its share of failures at the top.  While I don't follow college like some here, I don't get the impression that any of the top guys are once in a generation type talents. This is not Peyton Manning or even Luck. It's not what Eli provided even IIRC (granted, some of that was his lineage, but that plays a role in knowing whether a guy might be able to adjust, handle the pressure, enjoy the big stage).

The OL is a freakin' disaster that needs a lot of work. We need to get TWO starters from this draft there, and the way to do that is get Barkley if possible (if not, then maybe it's worth the QB gamble, Im just suspect) and then do your homework and go again in the second, or find someone that is a year or so of cultivation away from being a legit good lineman.

RB is just stupid - if you HAVE a great QB AND a solid line, then the immediate returns but huge long term risk might justify adding an elite weapon. But that weapon best be elite and entering a team where that's the key missing piece.  It's one of many missing pieces on offense, but it's also far easier to plug and play RBs, with a solid QB and good line than for a really good RB to transform a team that has neither.

 

FWIW, I'd like to get a QB and groom them under Eli, just not at #2.  

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Personally, in a trade down scenario, much as I don't like his antics, Mayfield intrigues me.  Because he's 2-3 inches shorter than ideal he can't cut it? Seems to be able to make the throws, seems to be a leader on the field and most of all, the guy is a true winner.  In the sense of any number of other great players who just freakin' won - including that guy in Seattle. 

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58 minutes ago, Koya said:

Personally, in a trade down scenario, much as I don't like his antics, Mayfield intrigues me.  Because he's 2-3 inches shorter than ideal he can't cut it? Seems to be able to make the throws, seems to be a leader on the field and most of all, the guy is a true winner.  In the sense of any number of other great players who just freakin' won - including that guy in Seattle. 

His height doesn't bother me nearly as much as the conference that he plays in. I just took a look at the Big12 QB competition percentages for this past season.

Mayfield hit 70% which is great but with the exception of the Kansas schools every other team in the conference was at 60% or higher.

 

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6 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

His height doesn't bother me nearly as much as the conference that he plays in. I just took a look at the Big12 QB competition percentages for this past season.

Mayfield hit 70% which is great but with the exception of the Kansas schools every other team in the conference was at 60% or higher.

 

That's fair... but I've seen him a number of times, and the gut tells me this guys is a player (I mean, it's also redonk stats and all that, but he passes the smell test as a "true winner" which is big for me regarding QBs.  Let's be honest, Eli has been brutally awful at times. Sometimes for long stretches... but the guy can also pull a game out, repeatedly, when it matters most. I'll take some inconsistency if the upside is the ability to go a half season at elite levels / do that through the playoffs en route to multiple Super Bowls. 

Better than say what we've seen from Cousins, which may be more consistent as a QB, but does he have the elevation in his game to rise to the moment, grasp history, put the team on his back and work magic - on multiple occasions. 

Mayfield "feels" like that kinda guy. And while the antics bother me, and he's definitely a bit of an immature #####, he doesn't seem as vapid and hollow a person as say Manziel, who was bent on being a talented and rich screw up.

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11 minutes ago, Koya said:

That's fair... but I've seen him a number of times, and the gut tells me this guys is a player (I mean, it's also redonk stats and all that, but he passes the smell test as a "true winner" which is big for me regarding QBs.  Let's be honest, Eli has been brutally awful at times. Sometimes for long stretches... but the guy can also pull a game out, repeatedly, when it matters most. I'll take some inconsistency if the upside is the ability to go a half season at elite levels / do that through the playoffs en route to multiple Super Bowls. 

Better than say what we've seen from Cousins, which may be more consistent as a QB, but does he have the elevation in his game to rise to the moment, grasp history, put the team on his back and work magic - on multiple occasions. 

Mayfield "feels" like that kinda guy. And while the antics bother me, and he's definitely a bit of an immature #####, he doesn't seem as vapid and hollow a person as say Manziel, who was bent on being a talented and rich screw up.

Part of the fan base wants to get rid of Beckham because of his “antics” can you imagine how they would react to the QB acting in a similar way?

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2 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

Part of the fan base wants to get rid of Beckham because of his “antics” can you imagine how they would react to the QB acting in a similar way?

I have a sense Mayfield might mature a bit there, and also recognize his role as leader of an NFL team, not rah-rah college. Beckham is just a showboat WR through and through.

 

But yeah, if he did continue the antics, it would not likely be accepted, including by me.  Not the Giants way.

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Pretty disturbing to know the Giants are not likely to get one of their top picks for HC - has the organization fallen that much?  Personally, I wanted McDaniels, as I'm not convinced that without HC experience their DC is ready to lead a team (lot of brilliant coordinators from that Tree have not panned out, especially in their first go at it).

Who do we think will be leading the G-men next year as HC? The cupboard is hardly bare (other than at O-line, where it's a disgrace)... and it's the NY freakin' Giants.  Yet we seem to be less attractive a position than I'd have thought.

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AND with that, looks like we will indeed offer the job to Shurmur.  Not sure where I stand on this - probably a more safe play than McDaniels, certainly has shown the ability to improve QBs (and we are likely going to get a young one soon to hopefully sit a year behind Eli then have a chance)... but not sure I love it.  Not sure I don't, either.

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On 1/15/2018 at 3:42 PM, Koya said:

AND with that, looks like we will indeed offer the job to Shurmur.  Not sure where I stand on this - probably a more safe play than McDaniels, certainly has shown the ability to improve QBs (and we are likely going to get a young one soon to hopefully sit a year behind Eli then have a chance)... but not sure I love it.  Not sure I don't, either.

Interesting. As I did not want anything to do with McDaniels. I felt that was the worst of the three choices. Was leaning towards Patrica. I agree that the entire tree has been suspect when they finally leave Bill's nest. I am ok with Shurmur. I don't think struggling in Cleveland is really that big of stain. I think he got a bum rap. That particular dumpster fire is going to take more than two years to put out. I do not think there was a slam dunk candidate out there.

I do think this whole wink wink nudge nudge thing to avoid tampering is a sign that this process needs to change.  

 

 

Edited by IrishTwinkie
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Who wants a head coach that got completely obliterated by one of our arch rivals? The Eagles will be drooling over the fact that they get to face Shurmur's offense twice a year and the Giants start out 0-2.

They have to pull that offer off the table asap !!!!!!!!

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I'm going to be optimistic. He coached the Browns for two years and won 9 games.

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16 minutes ago, monk said:

The Vikings ### kicking at the hands of the Eagles really puts a damper on this signing 

It wasn’t pretty but it was just one game so I won’t put too much stock into it

On the bright side the Vikings went to the NFC championship with a sub-par OL and a journeyman QB

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Per Rotoworld:
 

Quote

 

James Bettcher - DL - Giants

Giants hired ex-Cardinals DC James Bettcher as defensive coordinator.

Bettcher picked the Giants over the Titans after the Cardinals passed over him in favor of Steve Wilks for their head-coaching job. Bettcher had been the Cardinals' defensive play-caller the past three seasons after Todd Bowles left to coach the Jets. The two will now work in the same home stadium for different teams. Bettcher ran a 3-4 front in Arizona, while the Giants have been a 4-3 team for years. Olivier Vernon and Jason Pierre-Paul may play in more two-point stances.

 

 

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After investing heavily on the defensive line for a 4-3 defense and ignoring the LBs, they think it's a good idea to switch to a 3-4?  Bettcher seems like a good DC, but I am skeptical of this.

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45 minutes ago, RC94 said:

After investing heavily on the defensive line for a 4-3 defense and ignoring the LBs, they think it's a good idea to switch to a 3-4?  Bettcher seems like a good DC, but I am skeptical of this.

My guess is that they won't switch right away

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

My guess is that they won't switch right away

I don't like this at all ... the guy runs a 3-4 and he is going to have to adjust to a 4-3 ... terrible idea.

Giants don't have any of the personnel to switch to a 3-4 ... JPP and Vernon are not prototypical 3-4 Ends and Snacks is not a NT. Add the fact that the Giants don't have any good linebackers and now have to come up with 4 starters. This is looking like a 3 year defensive rebuild and that's not even considering the offensive overhaul that is going to be required to fix that O'line, QB and RB issue. Where are these bodies going to come from?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, monk said:

I don't like this at all ... the guy runs a 3-4 and he is going to have to adjust to a 4-3 ... terrible idea.

Giants don't have any of the personnel to switch to a 3-4 ... JPP and Vernon are not prototypical 3-4 Ends and Snacks is not a NT. Add the fact that the Giants don't have any good linebackers and now have to come up with 4 starters. This is looking like a 3 year defensive rebuild and that's not even considering the offensive overhaul that is going to be required to fix that O'line, QB and RB issue. Where are these bodies going to come from?

 

 

Actually Snacks is a NT. That is what he played with the Jets

I agree about JPP and OV, though I guess that OV MIGHT be able to play OLB

Tomlinson MIGHT do well as a 3-4 end, since the 3-4 end is more run stopper than pass rusher

Anyway time will tell and we just have to wait and see what the new guy want to do. Free agency will give us an idea

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I was just comparing the Az roster to the Giants and its just a completely different makeup. AZ fewer and much bigger Dlinemen - All of the Giants DEs would be the smallest dlinemen on AZ.  Obviously more and more talented LBs 

 

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Giants new WR coach, Tyke Colbert

 

"Tyke Tolbert once held a baby Odell Beckham Jr. in his arms, and now he'll be coaching Beckham as the Giants' new wide receivers coach.

No kidding.

Tolbert, 50, who played wide receiver at LSU long before Beckham starred for the Tigers, has improbable connections to both Beckham and Sterling Shepard, in fact, that go back a long way.

"I played college ball with Odell's dad (Odell Beckham Sr.) at LSU, and I went to school with his mom, Heather, at LSU," Tolbert told The Courier of Montgomery County, the newspaper of his hometown of Conroe, Texas, on Wednesday. "I told Odell when he was born, I held him as a baby outside of our dorm at LSU."

Not only that: Tolbert also knew Shepard's late father, Derrick, from his visit to Oklahoma.

"When I left Conroe High School, I took some official visits before I decided I was going to LSU," Tolbert told The Courier. "One of my official visits was the University of Oklahoma, and when I went there, his dad, Derrick Shepard, was my host. He showed me around the University of Oklahoma the whole weekend."

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5 hours ago, kodycutter said:

Giants new WR coach, Tyke Colbert

 

"Tyke Tolbert once held a baby Odell Beckham Jr. in his arms, and now he'll be coaching Beckham as the Giants' new wide receivers coach.

No kidding.

Tolbert, 50, who played wide receiver at LSU long before Beckham starred for the Tigers, has improbable connections to both Beckham and Sterling Shepard, in fact, that go back a long way.

"I played college ball with Odell's dad (Odell Beckham Sr.) at LSU, and I went to school with his mom, Heather, at LSU," Tolbert told The Courier of Montgomery County, the newspaper of his hometown of Conroe, Texas, on Wednesday. "I told Odell when he was born, I held him as a baby outside of our dorm at LSU."

Not only that: Tolbert also knew Shepard's late father, Derrick, from his visit to Oklahoma.

"When I left Conroe High School, I took some official visits before I decided I was going to LSU," Tolbert told The Courier. "One of my official visits was the University of Oklahoma, and when I went there, his dad, Derrick Shepard, was my host. He showed me around the University of Oklahoma the whole weekend."

What a coicindence ...Odell is still a baby.

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How do you guys feel about moving down to #7 for Tampa's 2019 first rounder?

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17 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

How do you guys feel about moving down to #7 for Tampa's 2019 first rounder?

I can’t find out how future year draft picks are valued but I doubt that this offer would be enough.

Per the draft value charts the #2 pick is worth 2600 while the #7 pick is worth 1500. That’s a 1100 point difference.

1100 points happens to be the value of the #14 pick THIS year

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/

Edited by Yenrub

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

I can’t find out how future year draft picks are valued but I doubt that this offer would be enough.

Per the draft value charts the #2 pick is worth 2600 while the #7 pick is worth 1500. That’s a 1100 point difference.

1100 points happens to be the value of the #14 pick THIS year

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/

I would do it but I would also want their 2nd round pick this year ... worst case would be about break even 2600 to 2610.  

  • 1st 2018 (1500) 
  • 2nd 2018 (520)
  • 1st 2019 (590 -->)

 

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Giants targeting Carolina Guard Andrew Norwell in free agency. The problem is the Giants are cap room strapped this off-season and have many Free Agents of their own including Pugh and Richburg who they are likely to let walk.

Norwell is a monster. If they can sign him,  a LT (Solder), and manage to Keep Pugh or Richburg they will be in much better shape heading into next season. I still think Flowers could be an awesome guard or decent RT. 

https://gmenhq.com/2018/01/26/free-agency-rumors-new-york-giants-targeting-andrew-norwell/

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