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3.9 million a year (1 Viewer)

NCCommish

NCCommish

Footballguy
According to the Congressional Research Service, or CRS, that was the cost of keeping one soldier in Afghanistan for one year as of Jan 2015. I think we can assume a little inflation over the last two years and round it up to 4 million. 4,000,000 per year per soldier. There are currently 8400 American soldiers in Afghanistan. so 8400 times 4,000,000 carry the one and we get about 33 billion a year. 33,000,000,000 a year. And the general in charge wants a few thousand more soldiers and he wants us to put money into the Afghan Air Force. No cost estimate of course just give me the damn money. And if we do those things then everything will be peachy? Seems hard to believe but military strategy aside I am going to ask the following question how are we going to pay for it? We have already spent something over 4 trillion, which is the most conservative estimate, in Iraq and Afghanistan. 4,000,000,000,000.00 minimum. Yet our citizens are drinking water with toxic lead levels. Our infrastructure is crumbling. 45,000 people a year die due to inability to get adequate healthcare. Children go hungry. We are told we don't have the money. We don't have the money for WIC. We don't have the money for food stamps. We don't have the money for single payer healthcare. We don't have the money for universal college. We always have the money for another bomb though don't we?

So of course the reality is we have the money for anything we want. We don't have the desire to do these things. Our priorities are ####ed up in the extreme. So the next time a politician tells you we don't have the money to do nation building at home realize what they are really saying is i don't get contributions from inner city kids who are being poisoned by the water they drink so #### them. Those 45,000 dead people can't write a check so #### them. The people bankrupted by medical bills can't write me a check so #### them. People who can't afford to go to college can't write me a 6 figure check so #### them. Plus once the lead messes those inner city kids up and that leads to mental issues then we get to lock them up, that's how we handle mental health issues now, so the guys who pay me from the private prison corporations can pay me more. Win, win.

Don't see how enabling a kleptocracy is a core principle for anyone not getting those checks.

 
To paraphrase the Coen brothers and take the sting out of it: You're not wrong, Walter. You're not wrong.  

Insanity. 

 
There is an opportunity for the left if they will start emphasizing these kinds of things. Health care, jobs, clean energy and drinking water, infrastructure repair -- focus needs to happen on these issues because they are things that really will MAGA.

 
roadkill1292 said:
There is an opportunity for the left if they will start emphasizing these kinds of things. Health care, jobs, clean energy and drinking water, infrastructure repair -- focus needs to happen on these issues because they are things that really will MAGA.
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I hope that we are seeing an awakening not just on the left but also on the right. And I am not talking very many sitting politicians I am talking the people. You guys. You know this is messed up. You know it in your heart and soul. You know what the right things are to do. Get the money out of politics. Failing that run the bastards out on a rail, Democrats or Republicans, that serve money over you. We got to change this and we need to do it now.

 
NCCommish said:
I hope that we are seeing an awakening not just on the left but also on the right. And I am not talking very many sitting politicians I am talking the people. You guys. You know this is messed up. You know it in your heart and soul. You know what the right things are to do. Get the money out of politics. Failing that run the bastards out on a rail, Democrats or Republicans, that serve money over you. We got to change this and we need to do it now.
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If there is one thing Agent Orange accomplished, it is to make lots of us more aware of the festering swamp in Washington that runs off lobbyist money.  It would be great for the country if we came out of this mess with some kind of unity on the things we need to do to negate it and instead use our awesome power for Joe Sixpack (who is all of us, regardless of race, gender or occupation). If that be populism, well, Tim be damned.

 
roadkill1292 said:
If there is one thing Agent Orange accomplished, it is to make lots of us more aware of the festering swamp in Washington that runs off lobbyist money.  It would be great for the country if we came out of this mess with some kind of unity on the things we need to do to negate it and instead use our awesome power for Joe Sixpack (who is all of us, regardless of race, gender or occupation). If that be populism, well, Tim be damned.
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And I don't think it would have happened if Hillary had squeaked out a win. 3 million women world wide wouldn't have been in the street. People wouldn't be showing up to town halls pissed off over cabinet nominees. Even though the same grifters would be getting the gravy and we would be getting screwed. Trump has taken away the pretty face of neoliberalism with his ham handed approach. Sure Hillary wouldn't have appointed Tillerson but she would have appointed someone who owed him. Hate DeVos? Might want to look into what Obama's Ed Secy was up to. But there weren't millions of calls about him were there? Nope. Same circus, different clowns.

 
Do you have a link to the info Commish?  I want to understand where the numbers come from and if it is accurate to say that adding more soldiers will necessarily cost the same amount.  I am skeptical that is the case.

It doesn't negate your larger point but I am curious about how the numbers are derived. 

 
worrierking said:
Do you have a link to the info Commish?  I want to understand where the numbers come from and if it is accurate to say that adding more soldiers will necessarily cost the same amount.  I am skeptical that is the case.

It doesn't negate your larger point but I am curious about how the numbers are derived. 
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A very fair request. I'll see if I can find the original CRS report and provide a link. I will say more soldiers means more ammo, more food, more water, more barracks, etc. I don't think this is a case where buying in bulk helps much.

 
Yeah, but what could we REALLY accomplish with 4 Trillion in the Government's hands stateside. That's like, what, 4 DMV employees and 50 supervisors for each? 

 
That number seems extremely high as compared to what it was during the 2009 troop build up where it was estimated at $1M/troop.  

 
NutterButter said:
That number seems extremely high as compared to what it was during the 2009 troop build up where it was estimated at $1M/troop.  
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Now it's all private contractors/operators (~$20k/mo) instead of cheap enlisted forces (~4-5k/mo). (Total ballpark numbers within a wide range) 

Soldiers have figured out they can retire, go private, and make much much more. 

Plus a lot more $ going to paying off locals and other blackops ####. 

Educated guesses at the source of some of the overruns 

 
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NutterButter said:
That number seems extremely high as compared to what it was during the 2009 troop build up where it was estimated at $1M/troop.  
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You have to be careful who is providing the estimate.

Remember the Bush admin estimated no more than 50 billion total for Iraq. And we would get paid back. Both statements were seriously wrong.

 
They should build a couple bases over there and be done with it.  We can't stop it and the bases are our best shot at containing it (which is the ultimate name of the game).

 
NCCommish said:
You have to be careful who is providing the estimate.

Remember the Bush admin estimated no more than 50 billion total for Iraq. And we would get paid back. Both statements were seriously wrong.
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The calculations so far have produced a sweeping range. The Pentagon publicly estimates it will cost $500,000 a year for every additional service member sent to the war zone. Obama's budget experts size it up at twice that much.
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Link.   Even if those numbers are off, you telling me they're off by that much.  These estimates were taking place where there was more of an emphasis on being accurate unlike the Bush days hence the double of the pentagon estimate.    Even if its more private contractors now, you tells me the difference is in multiple MILLION per soldier.  This was only eight years ago so inflation ain't adding that much.   

 
NutterButter said:
Link.   Even if those numbers are off, you telling me they're off by that much.  These estimates were taking place where there was more of an emphasis on being accurate unlike the Bush days hence the double of the pentagon estimate.    Even if its more private contractors now, you tells me the difference is in multiple MILLION per soldier.  This was only eight years ago so inflation ain't adding that much.   
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I'm going through the 109 page pdf right now so you guys don't have to. But it's not like the CRS has an ax to grind and they have never disputed the figure quoted to my knowledge.

 
NCCommish said:
I'm going through the 109 page pdf right now so you guys don't have to. But it's not like the CRS has an ax to grind and they have never disputed the figure quoted to my knowledge.
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I wouldn't think they would, but there's something that doesn't smell right.

 
As always you make a great argument.

But people like Senator McCain have long argued that if we leave Afghanistan it will destabilize the current government and the Taliban might return, and if they do return, that in turn will destabilize the Pakistan government and we could be looking at an Islamist government in Pakistan in control of a nuclear weapon, which is a pretty damn scary thought.

These are not MY arguments; I honestly don't know how reasonable they are or are not. But I think we need to consider them as well before deciding what to do with our troops over there.

 
timschochet said:
As always you make a great argument.

But people like Senator McCain have long argued that if we leave Afghanistan it will destabilize the current government and the Taliban might return, and if they do return, that in turn will destabilize the Pakistan government and we could be looking at an Islamist government in Pakistan in control of a nuclear weapon, which is a pretty damn scary thought.

These are not MY arguments; I honestly don't know how reasonable they are or are not. But I think we need to consider them as well before deciding what to do with our troops over there.
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 We stay forever? Did you know 24 soldiers every day commit suicide? That is more than are being killed or wounded in battle. These extended deployments are not only bad fiscally they are a horror show for my brothers and sisters in uniform. Destroying families and people. We need a new path this one is ugly and full of death.

 
NCCommish said:
 We stay forever? Did you know 24 soldiers every day commit suicide? That is more than are being killed or wounded in battle. These extended deployments are not only bad fiscally they are a horror show for my brothers and sisters in uniform. Destroying families and people. We need a new path this one is ugly and full of death.
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I know. I don't have an answer. And I agree with you. All I am saying is that just removing our troops worries me. Especially after what happened in Iraq after we pulled out our troops there.

 
timschochet said:
I know. I don't have an answer. And I agree with you. All I am saying is that just removing our troops worries me. Especially after what happened in Iraq after we pulled out our troops there.
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We should have never put them in. That was the actual problem. I told you guys this was going to be the end result. And I am just a guy with Google. If I got it right how did our government get it so wrong? Because they wanted to. There are people who own politicians who get rich off this and enrich their enablers. And they make sure they keep doing it. Obama has us in 7 countries. Billions upon billions lost to killing thousands and thousands of civilians. It breaks my heart. They have to go. We have to end the corrosive practice of legalized bribery before we have nothing left to save.

 
timschochet said:
I did not know this and it seems like a pretty shocking number. Do you have a link?
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Well according to Forbes I was off by two. On average slightly more than one person a day on active duty commits suicide which is a DoD, CDC and SSI arrived at number also cited by the Post. The rest are veterans no longer active, some of whom of course didn't serve in the new wars, leading to a total of 22 a day.

Forbes

According to the VA I was off by 4 that seems a little low given other sources but it is the VA so not fake news or anything I assume.

I won't bother to link articles that claim it is 35 a day as the data seems less than reliable but I wouldn't discount them completely either.

And really is the question how many give or take a couple of dead Americans per day? What we are doing are leading young men and especially women to take their lives daily. We should be seriously concerned about it.

 
NCCommish said:
According to the Congressional Research Service, or CRS, that was the cost of keeping one soldier in Afghanistan for one year as of Jan 2015. I think we can assume a little inflation over the last two years and round it up to 4 million. 4,000,000 per year per soldier. There are currently 8400 American soldiers in Afghanistan. so 8400 times 4,000,000 carry the one and we get about 33 billion a year. 33,000,000,000 a year. And the general in charge wants a few thousand more soldiers and he wants us to put money into the Afghan Air Force. No cost estimate of course just give me the damn money. And if we do those things then everything will be peachy? Seems hard to believe but military strategy aside I am going to ask the following question how are we going to pay for it? We have already spent something over 4 trillion, which is the most conservative estimate, in Iraq and Afghanistan. 4,000,000,000,000.00 minimum. Yet our citizens are drinking water with toxic lead levels. Our infrastructure is crumbling. 45,000 people a year die due to inability to get adequate healthcare. Children go hungry. We are told we don't have the money. We don't have the money for WIC. We don't have the money for food stamps. We don't have the money for single payer healthcare. We don't have the money for universal college. We always have the money for another bomb though don't we?

So of course the reality is we have the money for anything we want. We don't have the desire to do these things. Our priorities are ####ed up in the extreme. So the next time a politician tells you we don't have the money to do nation building at home realize what they are really saying is i don't get contributions from inner city kids who are being poisoned by the water they drink so #### them. Those 45,000 dead people can't write a check so #### them. The people bankrupted by medical bills can't write me a check so #### them. People who can't afford to go to college can't write me a 6 figure check so #### them. Plus once the lead messes those inner city kids up and that leads to mental issues then we get to lock them up, that's how we handle mental health issues now, so the guys who pay me from the private prison corporations can pay me more. Win, win.

Don't see how enabling a kleptocracy is a core principle for anyone not getting those checks.
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Like I've said for over a decade now, the debt is meaningless. 20T..... Who cares.

 
Walking Boot said:
Just saw this a second ago: 56,000 bridges need repair. One in four bridges in this country are 50 years old and have never seen reconstruction work.

Seems like a lot of those states could really use some good blue-collar work projects on infrastructure. Too bad it's far more important for everyone to argue about which bathroom everyone else pees in.
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I'd like to know how much work has been done to mitigate that number over the past 4+ years b/c I've seen a lot of bridge work being done in NJ.  

 
I agree that our bridges need a lot of work, there are literally 1,000s of them that need repair/rehab.

But the scary thing is, based on the ASCE (American Society of Civil Engineers) Infrastructure Report Card from 2013, bridges got a C+ grade and indicates that they are actually in better overall condition than other important parts of our nation's infrastructure including: roads, schools, levees, dams, energy, drinking water, aviation, etc., which grades were in the Ds.

The report (from 2013) recommends that we need to invest $3.6 Trillion in public infrastructure improvements by 2020.

Scroll to the bottom of this website if your interested:  http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/

 
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Who knew Afghanistan real estate was more expensive than San Francisco?  Perhaps because you don't get the troublesome gays and hippies?

 
timschochet said:
As always you make a great argument.

But people like Senator McCain have long argued that if we leave Afghanistan it will destabilize the current government and the Taliban might return, and if they do return, that in turn will destabilize the Pakistan government and we could be looking at an Islamist government in Pakistan in control of a nuclear weapon, which is a pretty damn scary thought.

These are not MY arguments; I honestly don't know how reasonable they are or are not. But I think we need to consider them as well before deciding what to do with our troops over there.
Click to expand...
Maybe we should pull them out through Pakistan after they attack and capture all of Pakistan's nukes.  A swift surprise attack might catch them napping.  It is a winning, tiger blood kind of move.

 
NCCommish said:
 We stay forever? Did you know 24 soldiers every day commit suicide? That is more than are being killed or wounded in battle. These extended deployments are not only bad fiscally they are a horror show for my brothers and sisters in uniform. Destroying families and people. We need a new path this one is ugly and full of death.
Click to expand...
I did not know that.  That would amount to 8760 soldiers a year. 

 
roadkill1292 said:
There is an opportunity for the left if they will start emphasizing these kinds of things. Health care, jobs, clean energy and drinking water, infrastructure repair -- focus needs to happen on these issues because they are things that really will MAGA.
Click to expand...


NCCommish said:
I hope that we are seeing an awakening not just on the left but also on the right. And I am not talking very many sitting politicians I am talking the people. You guys. You know this is messed up. You know it in your heart and soul. You know what the right things are to do. Get the money out of politics. Failing that run the bastards out on a rail, Democrats or Republicans, that serve money over you. We got to change this and we need to do it now.
Click to expand...


roadkill1292 said:
If there is one thing Agent Orange accomplished, it is to make lots of us more aware of the festering swamp in Washington that runs off lobbyist money.  It would be great for the country if we came out of this mess with some kind of unity on the things we need to do to negate it and instead use our awesome power for Joe Sixpack (who is all of us, regardless of race, gender or occupation). If that be populism, well, Tim be damned.
Click to expand...
Love this.

Everyone needs to get involved. Keep the pressure on and let them know we are not going away.

 
Let's say with technology advances that we were able to get the soldier number down to 33 but still spend $33B. Would it cost $1B to send a 34th soldier over?

 
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